sonomamashine
Member
BC, 2.0Ghz would be too demanding & hot if they break the 40(36) CU.
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ResilientBanana
Member
They’re saving all there huge new IPs for next-gen. I keep saying this but no one believes it. They have 15 studios, like Sony does. Sony is still releasing major games on the PS4, Microsoft is holding back for XSX. This isn’t really that unfeasible.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Yeah, same thing happened with Bluray over 10 years ago. Blu-ray was niche, BD players damn expensive ( Samsung, LG, Philips and so on ), but when PS3 came out, BD cost production went down and became more and more available to masses. Same crap can happen with HBM.
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thelastword
Banned
That's fair, but remember AAA vs Studios which mostly make AA games, so I can understand if the numbers could be higher from first party MS, but don't forget Sony is also bringing in some third party exclusives/self published AAA games too...….
CameFromNearFuture
Banned
At this point I would say a memory type other than the conventional gddr is a real possibility. Its Just that they;(people "in the know") cant reveal to me what It is exactly because they are under contract and dont want to get sued.
DJ12
Member
Well it cannot be more than 12 tflops with 36 CUs so something's got to give somewhere. I'm guessing as no one knows outside of Sony, ms and AMD how next gen rDNA performs on thermal and floppage you should really add in your opinion to such statements not post it like it's a matter of fact.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Will it matter though? And I mean with regards to the overall image.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Esram confirmed.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Yeah, Halo Infinite is that AA or just A? And Hellblade 2 really looked like a AA indie game, right? The 1st one WAS an indie game it won a bunch of awards and was better than pretty much anything on the PS 4. Not nearly as good as that PS5 generic 3rd party Godfall launch game, right.
sonomamashine
Member
I explained to him why another user stated it might be 40CU's, i didn't say otherwise, i keep telling people wait and see and that nothing is confirmed as for now.
CameFromNearFuture
Banned
Im not a tech expert, but memory is defintely the special source Sony is looking for like they want to experience the surprising 8gb dggr5 reveal all over again as It built a lot of hype and confidence on PS4 potential.
Cerny wants that feedback with lots of meltdowns again.
Free will knight
Neo Member
I can think of some more advantages GDDR6 is easier and quicker to manufacture. Making it a better choice for a console unless you are planning to sell less than a million in your first year.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I honestly don't believe type of RAM would have that effect. Now amount of RAM certainly would. A 32GB RAM bomb would send shock waves through the industry (not that I expect that in a month of Sundays you understand
).
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thelastword
Banned
We don't know how any of these games will come out yet, personally I like hack and slashers, hence why I'm a bit stoked for godfall…...Love the artsyle armor etc...…...I'm impressed with the physics on the armor frills and the foliage around, it kinda wants me to see how varied and how impressive the environments are going to be, especially with all those effects on screen and that lighting...….4k 60fps on the other hand just seals the deal.....
As for AAA vs AA...…..I'm just saying you will get more AAA games from Sony at launch and you will get more AA games from MS, not saying MS wont have AAA games themselves, just less....The smaller games will boost their numbers....
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
PS5 will not use HBM. And there was another thread where someone said PS5 might even skip HBM and go straight to ReRam.
PS5 will use GDDR6 like Series X. Just a matter of how much.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Yea, I don't think it will matter much in the grand scheme of things. It's not like you'll see one console being able to move textures from CPU to GPU so fast that the game can go from 30FPS to 60FPS.
David Ricardo
Member
Actually we can discard the memory type being a 'possibility'. At this point in time the memory type has been decided long ago. So it either is GDDR6 or it isn't, it's too late to change it.
So it either is something different than GDDR6 or you are full of it. Statistically it's 99% the latter, but Neogaf's motto is 'believe'. So we can cling to that <1% and have fun for a while.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
He's a tad biased towards PlayStation but at least he's been consistent in his preference unlike MBG and doesn't sensationalize/clickbait like him. I watch Foxy from time to time (usually just prefer to read articles tho as they're quicker).
MBG really fanboys now for Sony when he used to fanboy for MS. Dude seems a bit like a fanboy at heart no matter the brand tbh. Maybe they've calmed it down a tad since the switch but I remember that switch and it was abrupt and non-subtle AF.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
VFXVeteran
Banned
I didn't think Godfall was that impressive. I'd really like to gauge physics and various dynamic objects at the detail of Control. That game has clearly set the standard for several objects undergoing the entire graphics pipeline and being shaded with shadows, AO and GI at the same time.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Hellblade II is a music video.
Am I doing the Sony games are movies meme right?
And a damn good one, I'm totally hooked on Heillung now and it's still better than Godfall
sonomamashine
Member
it's more like thisHellblade II is a music video.
Am I doing the Sony games are movies meme right?
that game looks like something you could put on an i5/gtx 1060.
that kind of game that looks up to be a next gen game lauch title so they can benefit from the console hype more than anything.
thelastword
Banned
Control, funny enough, I don't think Control is impressive...…..Anyways, lets resume the hardware and speculative discussion....We will discuss more about Godfall when we see more...….So far for the trailer, it did enough and has me stoked to see more of it, the world, it's levels etc...and how the physics and effects are sustained in the game-world..…...Good times ahead, there will be lots of games to compare their tech for next gen.....
shenmue mugen
Member
We gain nothing with one system visibly outperforming another.
Ir their performance is evenly matched Sony and MS first party studios will try even harder to offer unforgattable experiences.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I actually agree with this. I don't find it looking overall impressive except the lighting. But the physics is definitely impressive.
Anyway, moving on.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Hellblade II is a music video.
Am I doing the Sony games are movies meme right?
Ya know what, I think for next gen all Sony games should be accused of being movies and all Xbox games called music videos. Sony as we know are the champions of cinematics and Xbox games DO tend have great music i.e. Ori, all the Halos and Gears etc.
We've got
for Stadia Now we just need to come up with something for Nintendo and we're set for next gen.shenmue mugen
Member
Actually neither Godfall nor Senua impressed me. Cutsenes don't do much for me because its a controlled environment and that is why I want to see gameplay environment because that is the real test (game logic, AI, physics, LOD, shadow and textures filtering, particles and poly count)
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
LOL.Hellblade II is a music video.
Am I doing the Sony games are movies meme right?
Considering how little gameplay there was in Hellblade 1, no doubt Hellblade 2 will win the award for Highest Music to Gameplay Ratio Ever at probably like 10:1, at 400 minutes music to 40 minutes gameplay.
McHuj
Member
The benefit of HBM wouldn’t necessarily by BW. if these consoles are pushing less than 13 TF, GDDR6 can provide sufficient BW. the advantage that HBM would bring is the lower power draw thus allowing higher clocking of the GPU or a smaller form factor.
its just a question of cost. How much does it cost now and how will the costs come down over the generation?
its just a question of cost. How much does it cost now and how will the costs come down over the generation?
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Do you guys study how the memory markets work? I'm asking because HBM and Blu-Ray are not the same scenarios, at all. Blu-Ray was always intended as a consumer market technology, and developed chiefly with that in mind. HBM is a memory technology chiefly designed with big data markets in mind, whose overall pool of clients is magnitudes smaller, but are able to pay a premium for a technological advantage. It's just also so happened to find its way into (very few) consumer products, mainly as testbeds to gauge performance vs. costs tradeoffs.
If there were magnitudes of advantage for HBM technology over GDDR, we would be seeing HBM deployed in mass-market numbers for consumer devices by now. It has already seen use in a few consumer GPU cards and NUC devices from Intel, but apparently hasn't done as well as expected. It's not that the technology is bad: it does have a few advantages over GDDR. But it also has disadvantages in comparison to GDDR as well, and only one of those accounts for pricing difference.
HBM will likely not become mainstream until several years from now, at which point breakthroughs in other technologies like 3D DRAM, MRAM etc. could render it more palatable for consumer markets. But still, it's probably a few years away, and if development of tech like STT-MRAM advances by magnitudes in the meantime, it could make widespread use of HBM-type memory limited (since STT-MRAM would also have the non-volitality of NAND plus the lower latencies of DRAM. Scaling for larger capacities is one of its biggest challenges atm).
Which thread was that? I know there's a thread talking about PS5 using ReRAM, but just as a very fast storage cache.
TBH that could still happen; it wouldn't replace main memory at all (not fast enough, not enough bandwidth, higher latency chief reasons), but 64-128GB of something like ReRAM or Optane-type PCM memory as a cache between DRAM and SSD storage is still somewhat possible, and would be a pretty sizable deal for any system in terms of performance.
Guess we'll see as more details on the systems are revealed, though.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
white people doing haka....
CameFromNearFuture
Banned
I honestly don't believe type of RAM would have that effect. Now amount of RAM certainly would. A 32GB RAM bomb would send shock waves through the industry (not that I expect that in a month of Sundays you understand
Speaking as a Noob here on tech, the higher the resolution and quality of textures, the more ram Speed is necessary tô show on screen ?
I have no Idea but I do think It would make a difference
sonomamashine
Member
Why would they need Variable Rate Shading (VRS) then ?
you full of it, you keep digging yourself deep.
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Ar¢tos
Member
Is it really sad that I completely forgot Stadia existed until I saw your post?Ya know what, I think for next gen all Sony games should be accused of being movies and all Xbox games called music videos. Sony as we know are the champions of cinematics and Xbox games DO tend have great music i.e. Ori, all the Halos and Gears etc.
We've got
It feels like it was a month ago that people vaguely talked about it and it has been forgotten and buried already.
Insane Metal
Member
THE:MILKMAN
Member
As a tech noob too my understanding is GDDR6 is more than a good enough all rounder (16-18Gbps chips are pretty fast/high bandwidth) and likely the most cost effective RAM there currently is. There is HBM but that costs more because there are no bulk buyers. Also needs to be placed on the SoC package with the APU which are already pushing high TDP. Adding RAM chips to cool in a single spot would cause even more headaches in a console I would think?
The last option would be some proprietary RAM but why go to such effort and cost of doing that? I don't think it would gain much myself but I'm far from an expert here.
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CameFromNearFuture
Banned
This kind of agressiveness is not necessary, my friend.
I comprehend your skeptical and more safe behave when It comes to specs, so not believing me is Part o the party, but I Will be the one who Will blow the candles cake, good friend. Its Just a matter of time now.
13.02.2.0 It is
sonomamashine
Member
how about now, i softened down a bit, removed the 3 dots and stop talking (because you so vague and you keep saying nothing) , just annoying that's all.
and whatever 13.02.2.0 means xD.
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Negotiator
Member
If you're going to lowball Anaconda, then why don't you lowball Lockhart's 4TF as well? More like 3TF RDNA.
3TF sounds like a joke, right? No way it's gonna match Scorpio's 6TF, despite the increased rasterization efficiency.
Exactly!
Why would MS give their exact specs to Sony so soon? There's still plenty of time left for tweaks. Remember the OG XB1 upclock?
With a beefy cooling system (PS5 V design/tons of vents and XBOX Series X tower design) they can possibly afford raising the clocks, if needed.
OG XB1 had a better CPU (10% faster) from the get-go, but it lost in the TF war.
Why? Because in video games you're more GPU/shader-bound than CPU-bound.
It's the same reason only a dumb person would buy 9900k or 3900X for 4K gaming. 3600 would suffice and it saves you tons of money for a more beefy GPU.
RTX 2080 Ti uses GDDR6. Does it have a latency penalty for RT/BVH acceleration?
I find it hard to believe that PS5 will be faster than RTX 2080 Ti, even if it uses HBM2 (which is not very likely). Maybe if HBM3 was a possibility (silicon vs organic interposer for lower costs):
Samsung aims to conquer the memory market with HBM3 - ExtremeTech
Samsung wants to push HBM3 to the high end of the market and adapt the technology to serve lower-cost segments more effectively. Combined, the two approaches could revolutionize memory bandwidth in the next few years.
www.extremetech.com
ReRAM is closer to NAND though, I think. GDDR6 is much better.
I was surprised they revealed the box design so soon this time around, almost 1 year before the release.
3.6 vs 3.2 GHz is a 12.5% difference, but:CPU was rumoured at first to be 3.5GHz for XSX then said to have been bumped to 3.6GHz. Previous to all this I expected 3.2GHz max for both consoles so if one ends up being 3.4GHz and the other 3.6GHz then it is a win, win.
Tell you something though, these consoles will be pushing >250W at the wall.
So full-fat RDNA2 is confirmed.Found it:
GFX1032 is a "powerful" APU code named VANGOGH which includes Navi21/23
this is the APU that will power the PS5 and Xbox
8TF team lost once again!
RTX 2080 Ti would have to drop to $349 overnight, if that happens.
Good news for PC gamers if you ask me (in terms of healthy competition/price wars), not just for console gamers. Win-win! Everyone should wish this to happen.
That would be incompatible with Sony's strategy for a "fast next-gen transition".
It would be more akin to a PS3 moment, if you get my drift.
Do we also have insider wars now, or are you guys being playful with each other?You know nothing
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Aceofspades
Banned
Damn, you got him riled up
,
sonomamashine
chill out man, nothing is confirmed about anything even Xbox.
ResilientBanana
Member
For sure, a lot of their studios have been working on multiple games at once, take Hellblade 2 and Bleeding edge as an example of that. But yes Sony does have overwhelming 3rd party support and their games are top notch.
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sonomamashine
Member
Cant stand vague statements and repeating what everyone was speculating on mounts ago, what did this guy added ? did i miss something ? i don't get how he's still riding that wave.Damn, you got him riled up
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
That's the thing; when they first talked about the SSD they said it was faster than any other on the market. But I've been wondering this whole time what they meant by that.
Do they know about the Gigabyte SSD with close to 6GB/s read speed when they said that? Did they mean "faster than anything else on market" in terms of their driver and software stack for the device and its controller? Did they mean in terms of just raw speed and bandwidth with equivalent of 4x PCIe 4.0 lanes vs. 3? Or did they mean in terms of a different method of storage altogether?
If the latter, and they still talk about having the fastest solution, it only leaves two possibilities on one type of connection: 3D Xpoint (or Optane; Micron isn't producing 3D Xpoint anymore) or storage-class ReRAM on a DRAM memory controller. That offers the non-volatility of NAND, latencies much lower than NAND, more bandwidth and faster speed than NVMe and allows for random access reads and writes at the page (reads) and bit & byte (writes) level, unlike NAND.
And if going by the numbers I crunched earlier, it's not THAT infeasible for them to have a ReRAM cache at a pretty affordable price, because in terms of pure marketing they can take, say, 64GB of ReRAM + 16GB GDDR6 and claim "Over 8x the memory of PS4", and they'd technically be correct since while ReRAM can't compare to even GDDR5 in terms of bandwidth or speed, it's a hell of a lot better at both than all consumer-grade NAND and most NAND in general (aside from arguably high-premium enterprise SLC NAND which it still beats in terms of bandwidth).
HBM2 is far, far less likely to happen than a nice chunk of ReRAM cache, mark my words.
CameFromNearFuture
Banned
Thanks for that. But I cant stop as teasing is Part of the Fun. If I am bothering You, Just put me on the ignore list and we're good. Its Fine
CameFromNearFuture
Banned
Damn, you got him riled up
I understsand him. Some people are impatient, they dont like waiting for something they are so curious about. Thats ok.
sonomamashine
Member
I always wandered how Broly got aggravated like that, now i understand.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
If they keep the same fully virtualised HW approach they had on Xbox One then they will always need a bit faster of a CPU to achieve the same performance of another console without the same approach.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Well, i'm sticking it with one of these two till official reveal.c
Just because Sony is unusual silent about type of memory for PS5.
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