Support NeoGAF

[GymWolf]

Yes I know and that's why I prefer to game on PC. However I bought new PC (3570+ GTX 680 2GB) one year before PS4 launch and later on I couldnt even mach PS4 settings, because my GPU was VRAM limited in many games. People who waited and bought maxwell GPU's (970,980,980ti) could play all console ports with ease till now while I was forced to upgrade. I'm not doing the same mistake again. I should be fine with XSX unltil Nvidia will launch 4080 series.

i upgraded my 970 to a 1070 because the 970 was not nearly enough to play MUCH better than console, and sometimes even the 1070 is not enough if you wanna play at 60 frame rock solid with high details.

unfortunately, if you wanna play at higher level on pc you need money.
i always sold my previous pc parts and search for crazy offers to manage the costs of high level pc gaming but it's rough on the wallet anyway.

 

[GymWolf]

Sorry wasnt excited to participate but got litle excited and got caught up in the midle of this fanboy war

Happy new years ( if youre already celebrating in your time zone)

no need for explanation, i was being a snarky asshole
happy new year to you.

 

[quest]

It will likely be 7nm euv as AMD are already working on that node so Sony and MS might as well piggy back on it. Also it leads directly to 5nm and lower where as 7P leads to 6nm and then dead ends so shrinks will be more expensive.

Even with 10% savings a 5700 will still have a 160W tdp at around 1.7Ghz.

The only realistic way to get 9+ Tflops is to go wider and lower clocked. Add 50% to the 5700XT, fuse off 4CUs so you can increase yield and decrease clocks to 1.6ish GHz and you have a chance of hitting 12 Tflops in a tdp lower than 200W.

You see the series x box? The MS engineers who built the awesome one x know what they are doing. That box says there is no chance these are a messily 200 watts. If it was we would of saw a small box and no complaints. That box was made to vent lots of heat from a a high tdp apu and ram. These will be by far the highest thermals in console history no doubt 300 watt territory.

 

[ethomaz]

By all accounts it is, if you are console maker. Its getting more and more expensive to get to node down, and pump out big chip to recoup as much perf as possible.

Just take a look at Sony's console die sizes since PS2, as node goes further down, clocks go up and die size goes down.

PS2 550mm² (clocks - 294MHz)
PS3 490mm² (clocks - 500MHz)
PS4 348mm² (clocks - 800Mhz)
PS4Pro 325mm² (clocks - 911MHz)
PS5? 316mm² (clocks - 2.0GHz)?

Very telling IMO. This is why its almost certain AMD Navi2 chip will be clocked 15-20% higher then this years one. Node maturation, design improvements and push for more perf per mm.

Clock actually didn't matter in Moore's law.
It is about how many transistors you can put per mm2.
It doubles each 2 years.

 

[GymWolf]

Who said anything about PS5? ……...We will all know when Cerny San hits the stage in a bathtub filled with rubber duckies, sipping on some wine.....He will reveal all then....

if we talk about sony and duckies...

ps3

ps5

 

[DanielsM]

MS: Here are 3 different consoles, Pc and Xcloud. We don’t decide where you should play. Go play our games where it’s convenient for you.

GAF console warrior: MS doesn’t care about the hardware that they spend billions to develop. I’m offended that they don’t tell me that their latest box is the only one that matters and prevent me from going anywhere else.

Just because they produce hardware doesn't mean they care about it, the reason the care about it at all is all the services are not all rolled out, years yet. Microsoft has stated multiple times that hardware sales are basically meaningless. Microsoft acquired the Lumia division, within about a year the wrote the whole transaction off.... laid everyone off... they still claimed to be into making mobile hardware.... only the idiots believed them.

Microsoft will have to go where the customers are, no different than the mobile strategy other than I don't think it works in gaming. Console warz are over just like the phone warz, the goal is to keep the existing customers while they complete the transition which will be many years.

Its not really a secret at this point.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

He was also very confident the PS4 GPU was over-specced, and that the ESRAM was going to make all the difference. Just saying.

I recall that, he was more or less refusing to believe Sony would have a clear advantage, much like a lot of the gaming "press", and sites like The Verge. They all went full retard over MSs PR effort.

The ESRAM did make a difference, the DDR3 RAM would have performed much worse than it currently does with this buffer. Where they failed is in believing that it would somehow make the consoles closer than if they both had the same GDDR5 configuration, when even early testing showed the opposite (and it only got worse).

 

[Marlenus]

But you are comparing first gen Navi released half a year ago on new node with console chip that will be released late next year on improved process.

Still, 5700 at 1.7GHZ is 160W card. RX580 is 190W card at 1.3GHz and Xbox one X is 180W at peak (entire system).

Mind you RX580 and X were released in same year, while comparing 5700 and hypotetical PS5 or X chip is not apples to apples.

Btw I doubt EUV. Its different process and chip needs redesign. To make things worse, N7P gives you straight 10% less TDP at same clocks while reported 7nm EUV gives you 15% with higher density - but apparently clocks are lower, so I am not sure they will redesign it all for small improvements over N7P.

BTW I think there is a reason why X went with 20CU more then reported 36CU part of PS5. I think this is because there is a sweatspot between nr of CUs and cache/rops in frontend.

Thats why big Navi is rumored at 80CUs.

Cost of chips per mm is going up because 7nm wafers are a lot more expensive than 14nm. This is why euv is likely as it is a bit cheaper and a bit denser.

Navi 10 with a straight 50% increase across the board is around 375mm before layout optimisation. On 7nm euv that is likely to be 330mm. An 8c zen2 with less cache could probably fit in 30mm on euv so we have a 360mm soc. Pretty in line with last gen soc size.

On top of the increase in density the other advantage is that N7+ is a 15% power reduction at iso spec (same uarch at same clocks). N7P is a 10% power save and no density improvement.

The next major node is N5 which is also an euv nodes so will be more similar to the N7+ design rules. If Sony and MS intend to release slim versions in the future then they are going to pay for the euv design rules at some point so why not do it now and take advantage of the increased density.

Personally I think the only way 10TF+ consoles are happening at all is by using N7+. N7P just does not have the density or perf/watt increases to get there unless, as I have said, RDNA2 is a large leap forward on the architect side.

 

[Dory16]

Just because they produce hardware doesn't mean they care about it, the reason the care about it at all is all the services are not all rolled out, years yet. Microsoft has stated multiple times that hardware sales are basically meaningless. Microsoft acquired the Lumia division, within about a year the wrote the whole transaction off.... laid everyone off... they still claimed to be into making mobile hardware.... only the idiots believed them.

I’ll take 18 years of striving to have the best hardware every generation over biased internet drivel as an indication of their future plans, thank you.

 

[nemiroff]

Well I'm not saying that won't ever happened but the industry is prediction the death of Moore's low for over a decade already without success.
About the graphics I believe there is so much to improve yet... in real-time we are reaching now the 20xx level of GCI movies.

(Note that I didn't read the past context of your single reply, so I'm not trying to refute or misrepresent your opinion)

You are correct, Moore's law has not died per se. But to be fair, it is on life support in the context of doubling performance.

However, although Moore’s law (still) did not break down, Dennard scal-
ing - also known as MOSFET scaling - did. Dennard predicted in 1974
that the power density of transistors will keep to be constant, even as their di-
mensions will continue to decrease, which in turn will increase clock frequencies
constantly and rapidly in order to push performances to the limit, all without
raising power consumption. Yet, this scaling did not endure forever, and in 2005
stopped, resulted in an unfamiliar situation in
which Moore’s law keep standing, but the yielded performances are no longer
dramatic as they use to be. Therefore, industry started to focus on new
hardware architectures - and consecutively code paradigms - to keep trends on
track. The most important shift was the introduction of extensive parallelism in
the form of increasing the amount of logical cores in CPUs, and the transition
to accelerators and co-processors which operate at lower frequencies than CPUs
but posses orders of magnitude more cores than the latter. This shift allows most
operations to operate in a vectorized fashion, thus increasing performances even
further. All of these advancements in turn created a new era in which hetero-
geneous computing - a mix of several hardware architectures - is almost the only
way to keep pushing performances.

(PDF) BACKUS: Comprehensive High-Performance Research Software Engineering Approach for Simulations in Supercomputing Systems

PDF | High-Performance Computing (HPC) platforms enable scientific software to achieve breakthroughs in many research fields such as physics, biology,... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[REDRZA MWS]

MS does not care where you play their games... as long as it is not on PlayStation and Switch (save for some exceptions) .

MS does not care where you play their games... as long as it is not on PlayStation and Switch (save for some exceptions) .

On the contrary, they would LOVE to sell you Halo and Gears and Forza, their xbox game services all on your PS or Switch. In fact some of MS’s games are already on or coming to switch.

 

[DanielsM]

I’ll take 18 years of striving to have the best hardware every generation over biased internet drivel as an indication of their future plans, thank you.

What does that have to do with anything? Whether you think the hardware is the best is meaningless or striving, nor are you really wanting to discuss in a reasonable manner.

Nice commerical btw, sounds like astroturfing. you need better training, imo, too obvious.

 

[Marlenus]

You see the series x box? The MS engineers who built the awesome one x know what they are doing. That box says there is no chance these are a messily 200 watts. If it was we would of saw a small box and no complaints. That box was made to vent lots of heat from a a high tdp apu and ram. These will be by far the highest thermals in console history no doubt 300 watt territory.

Ryzen 3k has hot spot issues and is only 105W tdp. It is getting to the point where it is not absolute power/heat that is the issue but also how small an area the heat is contained in so even coolers that can displace the heat struggle due to the area. This is why oversized cooling solutions are likely to feature in next gen consoles.

 

[Afro Republican]

Check your PMs.

I don't think there's much to check since this thread (and the other two) are all based on an unconfirmed rumor in the first place, so my statement is not really verifying anything other than the fact that it wouldn't make sense to see such a gap.

 

[Dory16]

What does that have to do with anything? Whether you think the hardware is the best is meaningless or striving, nor are you really wanting to discuss in a reasonable manner.

Nice commerical btw, sounds like astroturfing. you need better training, imo, too obvious.

Daniels you are the one making assumptions without anything to back them up. How am I not discussinv it reasonably?
You ASSUME that MS doesn’t want to be in the hardware business, has never cared about it, basically invested a dozen billion since the first Xbox just so they can spawn services. As if it wouldn’t have been cheaper to just host a store for games or be a publisher or quit after just a generation or two.
Nothing that we know of Microsoft supports that making consoles is a side business for them. They are not just making half baked consoles, they are literally making the most powerful they can every generation. Yes they got out of the phones business (and that’s supposed to be a reasonable argument). They also got into the high end desktop, tablet and laptop business since. What did you prove?
I reiterate that you are entitled to your opinion and that it will take facts from the past over internet speculation in order to guess the future.

 

[Afro Republican]

It's funny, because we've had previous leaks:

13TF - https://wccftech.com/playstation-5-13tf-gpu/

14TF - https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/1167540/PS5-specs-PlayStation-5-specs-leak-Xbox-One-X

And this:



And ironically Eurogamer also previously published this article with the possibility of the PS5 being up to 14.7TF -

In Theory: is PS5 powered by an AMD Gonzalo processor?

The first reveal - of sorts - for PlayStation 5 has been and gone, with Sony confirming specs including an octo-core Ze…

www.eurogamer.net

There's also an interesting tidbit within that article (also written by Richard) :



Well... So much for that then.

What's changed since? And why such a sudden and drastic change in tone compared to the previous article?

And there you go.

I don't see why this would be more believable than the other leaks, some people here are crazy.

 

[DanielsM]

Daniels you are the one making assumptions without anything to back them up. How am I not discussinv it reasonably?

Your posts, you sounded like a commercial, you're not very good at your job - too obvious.

You ASSUME that MS doesn’t want to be in the hardware business, has never cared about it

I'm not assuming anything, Microsoft says console sales doesn't matter and they have basically already bailed on all their purely consumer based hardware products, generally speaking. They have said they will produce hardware to fill in gaps from OEM i.e. Surface lineup. Microsoft isn't completed with their transition, years away. Of course, they can and probably will produce hardware for the time being, if anything way too much.... literally they have a new console and controller coming out every week. The goal is to keep the existing hardware customers until the services are completed.

 

[Panajev2001a]

On the contrary, they would LOVE to sell you Halo and Gears and Forza, their xbox game services all on your PS or Switch. In fact some of MS’s games are already on or coming to switch.

Hence the “rare exceptions” part, Minecraft: Better Together, Ori, Cuphead, and few others.

Wake me up when they announce they started negotiations to get Xcloud and GamePass for PS and they have. Sport of Infinite for it. Else it is still “play everywhere, as long as we control the platform” .

 

[onQ123]

I don't think there's much to check since this thread (and the other two) are all based on an unconfirmed rumor in the first place, so my statement is not really verifying anything other than the fact that it wouldn't make sense to see such a gap.

I'm pretty sure he is saying that you should show proof that you have seen both Devkits

 

[Afro Republican]

I'm pretty sure he is saying that you should show proof that you have seen both Devkits

That doesn't make much sense since seeing dev kits is not an insider claim. I didn't mention numbers or what they looked like. So I'd essentially be giving him information I didn't give anyone else for free.

Anyway, I'll just say that this thread blowing up but the other rumor threads not is very funny, I don't know why this rumor specifically would be more believable than the others but it's 12 pages so have at it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I don't think there's much to check since this thread (and the other two) are all based on an unconfirmed rumor in the first place, so my statement is not really verifying anything other than the fact that it wouldn't make sense to see such a gap.

Afro, to be fair, you are claiming insider knowledge and you should back it up. Trust the mods, they know what they are doing. Moderation here is very pragmatic, fair, and balanced.

 

[vpance]

It will likely be 7nm euv as AMD are already working on that node so Sony and MS might as well piggy back on it. Also it leads directly to 5nm and lower where as 7P leads to 6nm and then dead ends so shrinks will be more expensive.

Even with 10% savings a 5700 will still have a 160W tdp at around 1.7Ghz.

The only realistic way to get 9+ Tflops is to go wider and lower clocked. Add 50% to the 5700XT, fuse off 4CUs so you can increase yield and decrease clocks to 1.6ish GHz and you have a chance of hitting 12 Tflops in a tdp lower than 200W.

I think there's a good chance MS is on regular 7nm. Explains how they were able to get kits out and even sample production silicon (Phils tweet, and Osiris hint it's not a kit) suddenly despite reports of being behind. Also, they were already able to give us a shot of the APU months ago at E3. 56-60 CU can easily fit in that 360-390nm2 area. And then finally hhmmgg's tip that it's not on RDNA2, but only RDNA, which is 7nm per AMD slides.

 

[Journey]

Of course its not a fair comparsion.... which is why MS changed their whole strategy to casual. Same result.

You mean they tried to target the casual audience, but failed. Instead of gaining casual gamers with TV TV and Kinect, they ended pissing off their core audience and losing many 360 fans to PS4. Thankfully they're under new management have have been on the right track ever since. If indeed performance is 9.2 vs 12 TF, then the shift is clear, they went from casual to completely the other direction and going hard core with Xbox Series X, and I love it!

 

[Afro Republican]

Afro, to be fair,

You know your post is bad when you start out with a false statement. No specific claim was ever made.

 

[ManaByte]

You know your post is bad when you start out with a false statement. No specific claim was ever made.

You said you saw the devkits.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You know your post is bad when you start out with a false statement. No specific claim was ever made.

Huh?

 

[Afro Republican]

You said you saw the devkits.

And?

I didn't say I saw the specs, I said I saw the dev kits, and then based what I saw to say that believing this specific rumor that the PS5 will have a 2.8TF gap with the Series X is not likely to be true.

No to mention the other user who posted the other "leaks" that are rumors that had higher TF, but oddly this is the thread that has made people go crazy and take seriously for some reason. No information was given, no insider claim. Maybe I could have expanded on the "saw the dev kits" part but I mean it's clearly not the same as "saw the specs" and I gave basically no information in that post so to claim that there is any insider information to verify is bonkers to me.

 

[DanielsM]

You mean they tried to target the casual audience, but failed. Instead of gaining casual gamers with TV TV and Kinect, they ended pissing off their core audience and losing many 360 fans to PS4. Thankfully they're under new management have have been on the right track ever since. If indeed performance is 9.2 vs 12 TF, then the shift is clear, they went from casual to completely the other direction and going hard core with Xbox Series X, and I love it!

Now they are going to the services audience, I have my doubts that is the right track (I doubt anyone really cares) - in the meantime the people that actually invest in hardware are not thrilled by the end game. Which is why Microsoft produces all this hardware but sales are going down - the shift already happen, the missed the boat just like they did in mobile, imo. Microsoft already has the most powerful console, sales went down and at a fairly good rate - the shift already occurred, more powerful hardware in itself really doesn't solve the issue/s, imo.

Its basically what happened in mobile, although they have the ability to sell their office solutions thru Android/iOS.

 

[Marlenus]

I think there's a good chance MS is on regular 7nm. Explains how they were able to get kits out and even sample production silicon (Phils tweet, and Osiris hint it's not a kit) suddenly despite reports of being behind. Also, they were already able to give us a shot of the APU months ago at E3. 56-60 CU can easily fit in that 360-390nm2 area. And then finally hhmmgg's tip that it's not on RDNA2, but only RDNA, which is 7nm per AMD slides.

N7+ tapped out over 12 months ago.

 

[onQ123]

That doesn't make much sense since seeing dev kits is not an insider claim. I didn't mention numbers or what they looked like. So I'd essentially be giving him information I didn't give anyone else for free.

Anyway, I'll just say that this thread blowing up but the other rumor threads not is very funny, I don't know why this rumor specifically would be more believable than the others but it's 12 pages so have at it.

You know your post is bad when you start out with a false statement. No specific claim was ever made.

You said you seen the devkits & that it wasn't much difference why are you acting as if you didn't make any claim?


what did you see that would make you think this?

 

[Mod of War]

I don't think there's much to check since this thread (and the other two) are all based on an unconfirmed rumor in the first place, so my statement is not really verifying anything other than the fact that it wouldn't make sense to see such a gap.

You are moving the goalposts.

As someone who has seen both dev kits, the gap between the two consoles won't be that insanely larger, I can't add anything more to that statement, believe it or not.

But if you decided to believe such a gap would exist you will be sorely disappointed (or if you're a fanboy and you're scared and panicking under a table you can relax.)

There is a difference between speculating off-site unconfirmed rumors, and you claiming you have first hand knowledge on this board.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

Low key it would be hilarious if these PS5 spec rumors were true, the outrage some people are gonna to have will be legendary

 

[Afro Republican]

You said you seen the devkits & that it wasn't much difference why are you acting as if you didn't make any claim?

Seeing the dev kits isn't insider information.

Remember when Phil Spencer said he was playing the Xbox Series X at home? That's not insider information about the Series X because he didn't say a damn thing about the console, all he aid was he was playing it at home, there was no information.

Seeing the Devkits and basing a belief off that, and "seeing the specs" are two different things, and if that was the intent why didn't I just say that I saw the specs? None of these accusations of me making an insider claim makes any sense, goes against previous posts on this forum where it would make sense.

I'll let you guys believe what you want, no point in dragging this out, but the bottom line is there was ZERO information given, and thus by default there is NO information and thus NO insider information because information would have to exist for that accusations to make sense. This is nothing more than some of the most shallow semantics I've seen in awhile at best. But I've already said my piece, I'll just leave the thread to prevent more misunderstandings.

 

[ManaByte]

Seeing the dev kits isn't insider information.

Ok I’m going to go walk down the street to Hard Dawg’s GameZ and check them out for myself since everyone and not just insiders can see next-gen devkits of unannounced systems.

 

[Afro Republican]

You are moving the goalposts.

I'm not moving the goalposts you're playing semantics.

Seeing the dev kits is not "first-hand information" on a thread about specs, seeing the specs would be "first hand information" in a thread about specs.

This is the definition of jumping to conclusions. Seeing something doesn't mean that I know specifics.

 

[ManaByte]

I'm not moving the goalposts you're playing semantics.

Seeing the dev kits is not "first-hand information" on a thread about specs, seeing the specs would be "first hand information" in a thread about specs.

This is the definition of jumping to conclusions. Seeing something doesn't mean that I know specifics.

 

[vpance]

N7+ tapped out over 12 months ago.

Nonetheless AMD has not made any EUV chips yet because it's for RDNA2, which was still in design stages earlier this year.

 

[Mod of War]

I'm not moving the goalposts you're playing semantics.

Seeing the dev kits is not "first-hand information" on a thread about specs, seeing the specs would be "first hand information" in a thread about specs.

This is the definition of jumping to conclusions. Seeing something doesn't mean that I know specifics.

...

As someone who has seen both dev kits, the gap between the two consoles won't be that insanely larger, I can't add anything more to that statement, believe it or not.

But if you decided to believe such a gap would exist you will be sorely disappointed (or if you're a fanboy and you're scared and panicking under a table you can relax.)

 

[CyberPanda]

 

[onQ123]

Seeing the dev kits isn't insider information.

Remember when Phil Spencer said he was playing the Xbox Series X at home? That's not insider information about the Series X because he didn't say a damn thing about the console, all he aid was he was playing it at home, there was no information.

Seeing the Devkits and basing a belief off that, and "seeing the specs" are two different things, and if that was the intent why didn't I just say that I saw the specs? None of these accusations of me making an insider claim makes any sense, goes against previous posts on this forum where it would make sense.

I'll let you guys believe what you want, no point in dragging this out, but the bottom line is there was ZERO information given, and thus by default there is NO information and thus NO insider information because information would have to exist for that accusations to make sense. This is nothing more than some of the most shallow semantics I've seen in awhile at best. But I've already said my piece, I'll just leave the thread to prevent more misunderstandings.

I was pointing out to you the reason that the Mod said "check your inbox" because you was talking around it as if you didn't know why he/she said that.

 

[Marlenus]

Nonetheless AMD has not made any EUV chips yet because it's for RDNA2, which was still in design stages earlier this year.

Zen3 is design complete and will be using n7+

 

[Hendrick's]

I'm not moving the goalposts you're playing semantics.

Seeing the dev kits is not "first-hand information" on a thread about specs, seeing the specs would be "first hand information" in a thread about specs.

This is the definition of jumping to conclusions. Seeing something doesn't mean that I know specifics.

So let me see if I understand. You saw the physical dev kits, not the specs or any games playing on them, but you saw two pieces of plastic and were able to determine that the specs where not far apart?

 

[Evilms]

 

[New Yorks Finest]

...

I'm allergic to bullshiters, liers, and fake ass ppl in general.

It was cute to watch how he was swimming around posts while his ass was on . His OP open threads never made any sense anyway

 

[01011001]

So let me see if I understand. You saw the physical dev kits, not the specs or any games playing on them, but you say two pieces of plastic and were able to determine that the specs where not far apart?

I too have the sixth sense of detecting the amount of CUs inside a plastic casing!

 

[marquimvfs]

Which Sega console was 64-bit while Nintendo was 32-bit?

Maybe he got it backwards? I think Nintendo never got anything 32bit, they leaved 16bit (SNES) straight to 64bit (N64). And Sega never got anything 64bit, they had Saturn (32bit) and then launched Dreamcast (128bit).

 

[fermcr]

Ah!!!!... I missed console wars...

Let the show begin.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

It either resembles the retail chip, or it’s an early test chip for Sony to get working on backward compatibility. And the real chip is better. Let’s hope for the latter.

 

[eastwood333]

Just because they produce hardware doesn't mean they care about it, the reason the care about it at all is all the services are not all rolled out, years yet. Microsoft has stated multiple times that hardware sales are basically meaningless. Microsoft acquired the Lumia division, within about a year the wrote the whole transaction off.... laid everyone off... they still claimed to be into making mobile hardware.... only the idiots believed them.

Microsoft will have to go where the customers are, no different than the mobile strategy other than I don't think it works in gaming. Console warz are over just like the phone warz, the goal is to keep the existing customers while they complete the transition which will be many years.

Its not really a secret at this point.

You're still spewing this nonsense? MS Phil just stated local hardware will always be the best way to play games. Phil recently said him and MS CEO Satyia decided to "go all in" on Xbox. As I and Dory have stated,MS is trying to cover all bases in getting people into their ecosystem. Xbox,Windows,Xcloud,gamepass can all coexist. Buying a game once and being able to play it across different devices is consumer friendly and forward thinking. Who doesn't like options.

They care enough to invest billions. If MS "didn't care about hardware, why make the XB1X? Why invest so much to have the most powerful(XSX) and most affordable( XSS) if they thought Xbox is a failure with no future?You're becoming a broken record at this point. The XSX 12tf vs PS5tf really has wrestled your jimmies.

 

[Psykodad]

Low key it would be hilarious if these PS5 spec rumors were true, the outrage some people are gonna to have will be legendary

The best thing for MS would be if PS5 would be pretty equal in power as it would make Lockhart a steal, though.

Having PS5 in the middle with both power and pricing would make both Lockhart and XSX harder to sell.