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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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H

Henry Clark

Unconfirmed Member
You got it. Sony will blew your mind wait . True MS Also the Virtual ram concept is awesome.
Johnglen said:
Of course they have. What both companies are communicating is obvious, Jim Ryan just made some comments about the ps5. But whatever I guess MS’ entire message being about «power, power, power» means that they have no clue about the sony plans that everyone on the internet seems to know.
Click to expand...
 
Ar¢tos

Ar¢tos

Member
jonnyp said:
Alfred Panini :D
Click to expand...
Sounds delicious!
Chicken-Cordon-Bleu-Panini-Fifteen-Spatulas-1-640x427.jpg
 
Gavin Stevens

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
I’ll say it again... why would a developer, with a dev kit, know what the ins and outs are with regard to stuff they would never have access to? Why would any developer with a dev kit ever go “oh shit Steve I just finished polishing level 3, I’ll just go and mess with the backwards compatibility on the dev kit, I hear it even plays PSOne games at 8k with full AA in 120fps”.

That’s like having somebody around to fix your leaking pipe but giving him the keys to your car. The dev kits are purely there for development shit. You don’t get access to certain things. Why would you?
 
Ar¢tos

Ar¢tos

Member
o'dium said:
I’ll say it again... why would a developer, with a dev kit, know what the ins and outs are with regard to stuff they would never have access to? Why would any developer with a dev kit ever go “oh shit Steve I just finished polishing level 3, I’ll just go and mess with the backwards compatibility on the dev kit, I hear it even plays PSOne games at 8k with full AA in 120fps”.

That’s like having somebody around to fix your leaking pipe but giving him the keys to your car. The dev kits are purely there for development shit. You don’t get access to certain things. Why would you?
Click to expand...
?!?
SDKs and manuals give access to a ton of information many devs don't need or use.
Do you think they make limited SDKs and edited manuals for companies that exclusively make themes and avatars? No, they get the same as the others.
 
Gavin Stevens

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
Ar¢tos said:
?!?
SDKs and manuals give access to a ton of information many devs don't need or use.
Do you think they make limited SDKs and edited manuals for companies that exclusively make themes and avatars? No, they get the same as the others.
Click to expand...

Usually at this stage of the game, nothing is final. The OS will be bare bones, with simple strings to load stuff. Features will be missing. Hell even the hardware likely isn’t the same as what you will get later on.

Later on as the hardware matures you will get access to certain things on dev kits through firmware updates. But usually, especially at this stage before a console has launched, you will be looking at something that isn’t anything like a retail unit.

There’s zero reason for certain things to be in use, from what I can gather.

Edit: I mean I may be wrong on this, the last sdk I got to use was years ago. But it was essentially the hardware to spec, with simple gui access. It wasn’t a full on environment.
 
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01011001

01011001

Banned
Darius87 said:
i guess 9.2tflop ps5 is no more i knew that because 36CU's BC doesn't make sense, otherwise xsx should have 40CU's because BC for xonex.
Click to expand...

Microsoft uses a software wrapper for backwards compatibility.
basically the software reallocates all the hardware tasks. this is also part of the reason why the Xbox One X runs games so much faster even if they are not patched.
unpatched Xbox One games on One X don't use the whole hardware but a good chunk of it, so games designed for a 1.3TF machine get to use about 3TF of power when played on One X

Sony's backwards compatibility works through hardware. they let the hardware replicate the clock speeds and core count of the PS4.
they even patented this.
this is also why when you play PS4 games with no Pro patch on PS4pro they can only use the exact same amount of GPU cores.
boost mode uplocks these cores to PS4pro clock speeda but it still only ises half of the PS4pro's GPU, which is an exact match for the base PS4.

so that's why Microsoft wouldn't need to replicate the hardware of the Xbox One in any way, they use software to run games on new hardware, while Sony uses the hardware to mimik the hardware of the older machine.
 
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Darius87

Darius87

Member
going by rumours as of late for now it seems:
PS5 > XSX in rasterization(could change?)
PS5 > XSX in SSD(ultra fast vs virtual ram)
PS5 > XSX in controller features(haptics vs added buttons)
PS5 > XSX in API development(ps dev kits have more performance?)
PS5 > XSX in Audio(RT audio vs nothing)
PS5 > XSX in RT(GT RT demo vs nothing(could change?))
XSX > PS5 in VRS(tier 2 vs tier 1)
 
Reindeer

Reindeer

Member
Darius87 said:
going by rumours as of late for now it seems:
PS5 > XSX in rasterization(could change?)
PS5 > XSX in SSD(ultra fast vs virtual ram)
PS5 > XSX in controller features(haptics vs added buttons)
PS5 > XSX in API development(ps dev kits have more performance?)
PS5 > XSX in Audio(RT audio vs nothing)
PS5 > XSX in RT(GT RT demo vs nothing(could change?))
XSX > PS5 in VRS(tier 2 vs tier 1)
Click to expand...
You don't come across as Pro Sony, no, not at all 😂.
 
Darius87

Darius87

Member
01011001 said:
Microsoft uses a software wrapper for backwards compatibility.
basically the software reallocates all the hardware tasks. this is also part of the reason why the Xbox One X runs games so much faster even if they are not patched.
unpatched Xbox One games on One X don't use the whole hardware but a good chunk of it, so games designed for a 1.3TF machine get to use about 3TF of power when played on One X

Sony's backwards compatibility works through hardware. they let the hardware replicate the clock speeds and core count of the PS4.
they even patented this.
this is also why when you play PS4 games with no Pro patch on PS4pro they can only use the exact same amount of GPU cores.
boost mode uplocks these cores to PS4pro clock speeda but it still only ises half of the PS4pro's GPU, which is an exact match for the base PS4.

so that's why Microsoft wouldn't need to replicate the hardware of the Xbox One in any way, they use software to run games on new hardware, while Sony uses the hardware to mimik the hardware of the older machine.
Click to expand...
makes sense for pspro but not ps5 one thing is clear that ps5 should have minimum 36 CU's but not exact 36 CU's like all these 9.2Tflops leaks suggesting.
 
B

BattleScar

Member
I don't understand why Sony not talking about specs has been conflated with them having the weaker system as a matter of certainty.

I don't recall Sony waxing lyrical about the PS4's (significant) performance advantage before they the hardware reveal in Feb 2013.

Ya'll are just thirsty.
 
Blindarchangel82

Blindarchangel82

Member
BattleScar said:
I don't understand why Sony not talking about specs has been conflated with them having the weaker system as a matter of certainty.

I don't recall Sony waxing lyrical about the PS4's (significant) performance advantage before they the hardware reveal in Feb 2013.

Ya'll are just thirsty.
Click to expand...

My guess is it's the same reason lions quietly stalk their prey. The element of surprise. Honestly, they're in no rush. With all the AAA PS4 releases this year alone, they have the high ground and they're waiting to reveal on their terms. Otherwise it looks like damage control. Just a guess though.
 
Tommy Fisher

Tommy Fisher

Banned
YakimaG said:
Everybody celebrating on one side based on those AMD leaks (essentially small test runs for more complete chips) are going to be disappointed. I can say with certainty while the tests are real, the PS5 chip has over 40 CUs.

Who has the stronger console shouldn't be considered as case closed, and the advantage isn't exactly on Xbox's side in that department. Sony has kept their cards close to their chest, very close, and as a result appear poised to surprise everybody again like they did in 2013. Only this time, there hasn't been a superdae style leak that accurately depicts most of Sony's plans. Sony did not skimp on their GPU. It is competitive with Xbox GPU. In fact, what has annoyed me recently has been all the vagueness, so I'll just flat out say it here. The PS5 GPU is stronger and larger than the Xbox chip. They're close, but Sony wins in that department, and anybody that doubts it come speak to me after the reveal.

Who the hell am I? Why should you believe me? I can't say because, well, NDAs are a bitch, and I'm not a fan of being hauled into court, but I'm not in agreement with how quiet Sony has been when they have the better box, so just consider me a friend tossing you guys a bone. I won't be participating too heavily in this thread because, quite frankly I don't want all the attention, but I see a lot of people settling on this ridiculous 9.2TFLOPs mess and I cringe when I see it. No, Sony isn't running their GPU as hot as some are thinking. Those 2GHz numbers were literally stress tests. No more, no less. And BC does not hinder Sony from increasing their CUs, cause they clearly have.

Everyone is assuming what form factor sony is going with based on their dev kit, don't. Microsoft aren't the only ones willing to draw more power in the next gen from their console. Sony are not designing a $399 console, they are shooting straight at the $499 price point and will likely have to take a loss because their SSD (SWEET JESUS THAT SSD!!!) is no game. They probably could have hit $399 easy without it, but I'm not mad at them.

And to add further context to Bluepoints tweet, "stay hungry" stop overreacting and getting nervous that the 9.2TFLOPS PS5 is real or a thing. It isn't, and they are fully aware of this. I will repeat because no other insider has made it quite clear yet, too much vagueness. The PS5 GPU is greater than 12.5 Teraflops, but less than 14TF. Is above 40 CUs (bye bye 5700 range navi - the thing that bugged us the most probably)

In all honesty when Phil Spencer put the Scarlett chip in his profile, and Xbox started flexing, Sony should have done the same. It would have been most interesting to see what measurements everybody came back with on both, and I will leave it at that on the chip size. On hardware ray tracing, both consoles are more or less similar, there is no super, special secret sauce. The story is just about the same there. I expect few games to use it because of the performance penalty, which is why you probably see Sony not mouthing off on that front. Xbox will find themselves in a precarious position to be pushing it so hard and then fail to deliver on it. Sony is choosing to take the humble route, but there is no advantage on either side for RT. It's a wash.

And finally, again, I know nobody here has any reason to believe a single word of what I just said, but trust when I tell you guys everything I say here you can take to the bank. We are in the early development phase of a title that will release first on Xbox even though all of our initial work, tests and benchmarks for performance, basically our entire invested time since the game was a concept, were done on ps5 until I guess a deal was made? We are not cross-platform. Next Gen Only. So now we have to do our best show pony routine and start building for xbox first with a later release on PS5 (might even drag us up on stage or something to show some ass). One of those fake exclusives as it were. We went from building for one powerful spec to now having to develop for an entirely different beast and its weaker kid brother. SSD optimizations (what the fuck do we need those for anymore?) Fan fucking tastic. I'm sure our art guys are loving it right now.

I’m done ranting, see you guys at reveal.
Click to expand...
What's your iPhone's Software version?
 
megreotsugua

megreotsugua

Banned
Blindarchangel82 said:
My guess is it's the same reason lions quietly stalk their prey. The element of surprise. Honestly, they're in no rush. With all the AAA PS4 releases this year alone, they have the high ground and they're waiting to reveal on their terms. Otherwise it looks like damage control. Just a guess though.
Click to expand...

If this is real, I hope Sony suprise me with ReRAM SSD, that 25.6gb/s one.
 
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mitchman

mitchman

Gold Member
Johnglen said:
Sony apparently fooled Microsoft and everyone under the sun knows the ps5 specs except....MS executives. Random forum members know everything but the head of the Xbox division is ignorant. Meanwhile MS is basically screaming about power while Sony is communicating «features».
Click to expand...
Remember that MS thought the PS4 would only have 4GB of GDDR5 memory and thought their additional memory + SRAM would be enough to compensate for their weaker GPU (they knew their GPU was weaker). Sony blindsided them by announcing 8GB GDDR5, the rest is history. It could happen again.
 
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XcloudTimdog

XcloudTimdog

Banned
Agnostic2020 said:
Once called out for faking profiles they both stopped posting. If it is really them I hope they get banned.
Click to expand...
demigod said:
Damn how did i miss this gem. So the pastebin from last june said navi 21 lite listing xsx at 395mm 52cu while ps5 was 420mm 56cu. It would line up with yaki saying ps5 apu is bigger.

I’m assuming @OsirisBlack knows who yaki is working for.
Click to expand...
It does line up why do you think im pissed off
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
What the hell is going on with insiders? Both here and the other place. Insider wars is going on......Please Sony and Microsoft get the full reveals with specs out ASAP so this beyond silly season can end (for 7 years at least before the need to feed again). Even B3D is being affected!
 
The Mad Draklor

The Mad Draklor

Member
Lunatic_Gamer said:
:messenger_hushed:

Click to expand...

Much of that is believable until I read the release date and pricing. I don't believe there will be a $100 price gap. The release date has some sort of sense. You're going to sell out at launch regardless during the holiday season or not. Releasing the console in October gives you the time to replenish stock so you can take advantage of the holiday surge.
 
XcloudTimdog

XcloudTimdog

Banned
bitbydeath said:
What parts line up that convinced you?
Click to expand...
The die sizes of the pastebin and dms i got about them. I think maybe the github only tells one part of story. Just like ps4 pro, they might of smacked two gpus together or something. Clock @ 2.0 never made sense. Guess we will see. If Yaki gets verified I will be further in the Yaki boat. Guess both these consoles gonna take a hit @ 499 but Sony willing to take more. Redmond probably rethinking stiff. Wonder if they can go with 1.85. That could close the gap
 
SportsFan581

SportsFan581

Member
It's important to remember that all MS has said about power and performance is that XSX is the best XBOX they've ever built, which can be completely true without being indicative of anything regarding PS.

The reveals are approaching fast. We'll know everything then, whether that is one company intentionally under promising with their dev kits, or maybe one has fans blowing like it's 1990.

Good times ahead. I love the silliness of the console wars, it is like its own side show.
 
bitbydeath

bitbydeath

Member
XcloudTimdog said:
The die sizes of the pastebin and dms i got about them. I think maybe the github only tells one part of story. Just like ps4 pro, they might of smacked two gpus together or something. Clock @ 2.0 never made sense. Guess we will see. If Yaki gets verified I will be further in the Yaki boat. Guess both these consoles gonna take a hit @ 499 but Sony willing to take more. Redmond probably rethinking stiff. Wonder if they can go with 1.85. That could close the gap
Click to expand...

Hopefully they’re as close to one another as possible. Everyone winning is the best outcome.
 
Darius87

Darius87

Member
DaGamez said:
It's important to remember that all MS has said about power and performance is that XSX is the best XBOX they've ever built, which can be completely true without being indicative of anything regarding PS.

The reveals are approaching fast. We'll know everything then, whether that is one company intentionally under promising with their dev kits, or maybe one has fans blowing like it's 1990.

Good times ahead. I love the silliness of the console wars, it is like its own side show.
Click to expand...
also MS said they not gonna lose on price and power. so it kinda contradicts themselves.
 
PocoJoe

PocoJoe

Banned
01011001 said:
Microsoft uses a software wrapper for backwards compatibility.
basically the software reallocates all the hardware tasks. this is also part of the reason why the Xbox One X runs games so much faster even if they are not patched.
unpatched Xbox One games on One X don't use the whole hardware but a good chunk of it, so games designed for a 1.3TF machine get to use about 3TF of power when played on One X

Sony's backwards compatibility works through hardware. they let the hardware replicate the clock speeds and core count of the PS4.
they even patented this.
this is also why when you play PS4 games with no Pro patch on PS4pro they can only use the exact same amount of GPU cores.
boost mode uplocks these cores to PS4pro clock speeda but it still only ises half of the PS4pro's GPU, which is an exact match for the base PS4.

so that's why Microsoft wouldn't need to replicate the hardware of the Xbox One in any way, they use software to run games on new hardware, while Sony uses the hardware to mimik the hardware of the older machine.
Click to expand...

Still it doesnt mean that they would or must limit CU to 36.

They could have 100000000CUs and limit it to 18/36 on ps4 mode.

Weird how so many believe that sony would limit ps5 like that when it isnt needed
 
vivftp

vivftp

Member
Darius87 said:
also MS said they not gonna lose on price and power. so it kinda contradicts themselves.
Click to expand...

That is not what Phil Spencer said, he said:

“I would say a learning from the Xbox One generation is we will not be out of position on power or price”

It just says they will price the box accordingly for its power, unlike what happened with the Xbox one where it was more expensive and less powerful.
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Rossco666 said:
13.3TF?
Click to expand...

Tommy has said 52CUs @2GHz before. The problem is 2 GHz seems highly unlikely for Navi full stop but especially in a console form factor unless 90db fans are accepted. Bare in mind the console will be running the GPU and CPU at full clocks while playing games. Unless something amazing is pulled out of their hats I'm holding back believing it. For now....
 
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