DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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NoLootBoxDev
Member
It is plausible, I do hope to be wrong. It is better to have low expectations than going with big and being disappointed (which most people do).
ZywyPL
Banned
Assuming the 9TF figure is indeed true, I'm keen to believe that back in the day (1-2 years ago) both consoles were originally aiming at +-12TF, with nothing but GCN architecture to choose from, but then later down the road Navi/RDNA showed up, significantly boosting that actual performance, and Sony was like "fucking cool, we can have the same results with smaller (cheaper) chip!", whereas MS was like "let's keep it that way and get even more performance!". Time will tell, hopefully Soon™ enough...
SleepDoctor
Banned
My girlfriend found mine and was like "should I throw this away?" I was like no but might as well have cuz idk where it is again lol. Even found an old game gear with sonic 2 (i think) lol
SportsFan581
Member
Corrected that for you.
I'm sure AMD made the same technologies available to both, if there are large differences it's because parts of the chips were designed in-house at MS or Sony and then integrated.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
D00d you're talking too much common sense, get that outta here!!!
Hmm...what are "profit margins"? What are "R&D investment funds"?
Even Sony said success isn't measured in console sales anymore, not absolutely anyway. You're using one slice out of a bigger pie to call judgement on how deals are made. That's stupid.
Also it's 11.04, not 11.5. You even cited 25% efficiency in your post, so why calculate with 20%?
I mean they can hit 11.04 with a 48CU active chip, maybe that's what Oberon E0 actually is. We would need more information on it. Otherwise best hope it is another upcoming stepping or revision that will be discovered
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Physiognomonics
Member
My advice: play using the performance mode. At least try a few times that mode to compare with the 30fps mode.
pasterpl
Member
I am not saying anything like this. But AMD earnings in Q4 showed that the Enterprise, Embedded and Semi-Custom segment (which include consoles), including chips for servers and customized chips, contributed $465 million in revenue, out of all $6.73b that they have made. So the combined console segment is not even 10% of AMD earnings.
AMD falls after soft revenue projection
AMD beat on the top and bottom lines, but its forecast for the next quarter was slightly less than what analysts had forecast.
www.cnbc.com
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
How can Lockhart have $200 less tech and still make MS a profit?
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
When I first moved out, I moved into a place that had a sealed up ceiling space, long since forgotten. I got curious one day and decided to see what was in there, as it was technically now mine.
Inside was a classic game gear official carrying case, complete with game gear and several games. Plus a bag of vintage Star Wars original run figures. My wife (wasn’t then but you know) doesn’t understand the excitement.
But to me, I was like a pig in shit
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Old Empire.
Member
Personally I felt the 9.2 teraflop console rumour is accurate. Sony had similar spec properties they’d be out with already and letting everyone know they had an identical console to them.
The report was the MS machine would between 10 and 11 teraflops. 12 teraflops is actually a surprise and RDNA2 a perk. MS got from AMD a GPU that not even out yet. This is a change from past console generations, with the console GPU got off the shelf and as out about a year to two years.
Its march now and theconsoles are to launch in Nov. Sony only shown a logo.
In 2013 they were pushing the PS4 launch in Feb.
I not certain Sony can change the specs for 9.2 teraflop machine if the contract was signed and the production already started? My best guess and may be wrong Sony going with the two console strategy now and that may delay the reveal and launch of the PS5?
Agnostic2020
Member
12 TF was always the target spec for MS and it was leaked in januray 2019.
PS4 was revealed 2 weeks ago in 2013. this time around with social media trending around corona virus , everyone would want to wait for the reveal of their product till their product can trend on social media and gathers traction.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
SleepDoctor
Banned
When I first moved out, I moved into a place that had a sealed up ceiling space, long since forgotten. I got curious one day and decided to see what was in there, as it was technically now mine.
Inside was a classic game gear official carrying case, complete with game gear and several games. Plus a bag of vintage Star Wars original run figures. My wife (wasn’t then but you know) doesn’t understand the excitement.
But to me, I was like a pig in shit
Yea i wish i keot all my consoles. I usually gave em to family. I still have a gamecube that my sister has. She always reminds me to pick it up but i never do lol
Kdad
Member
...deleted for being addressed already
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ZywyPL
Banned
Actually the supply shortages/delays due to coronavirus situation might come in handy, giving Sony extra time to let's say add more CUs and redesign the socket and circuits on the motherboard appropriately for the bigger APU, and still release the console somewhere in Q1 2021, which is still a year from now.
LED Guy?
Banned
Yeah but we’re talking about gaming here, not other endeavors that are almost irrelevant to the gaming landscape.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
One X due to it's HDD and CPU would hold back future games. Lockhart wouldn't.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I don't think it's just Corona-related; if that were the case MS would be just as affected, and we'd probably be hearing rumors they would be delaying XSX as well, or cancel planned reveal events for the system. So I think there's something else besides the obvious Corona stuff they are sorting out, or trying to.
Plus, this Corona stuff didn't even kick in until February, so that doesn't explain why they've been relatively silent since October 2019. And since the PlayStation headquarters is in California now, I would think they would at least be able to get a clearing from Sony Japan to proceed with a reveal given the event would take places (assuming) in California. And Corona has no major effect on a digital-only reveal event, so yeah I can't pin it all on Corona whatsoever.
Those other endeavors still influence the gaming-related deals, however. I mean, money is money to these companies at the end of the day. Plus, there are other values one can bring that aren't measurable in direct cash.
No, I'm not talking about sex. I mean market share advantages, stronger footholds in certain business sectors, closer hardware/software compatibility and optimizations for multiple markets like gaming, data centers, corporate offices etc. People are underestimating how much a company like MS brings to AMD's table for these kind of things.
That isn't to say Sony doesn't bring anything; they obviously do. But that is mainly "confined" to PlayStation. There is a difference and a pretty notable one and I think when all of that is weighed out, at the very least MS's end is just as valuable to AMD as Sony's.
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user1337
Member
I don't have a 4K TV either and I'd regard myself as a gamer. I will get one with the next console though, just not necessarily a top end one, cause they are still too expensive.
Burrito Bandito
Banned
the fact that lockhart exists adds more credence to 9.2 imo, or at least <12. Of course anything is possible but MS having two consoles weaker than ps5 would be a colossal failure on their research team. Having your “premium” model being weaker than your competitions base model would be embarrassing
Fun Fanboy
Banned
I don't have a crazy powerful PC, and I like to stream. So I enjoy streaming from my Xbox thru PC. Hell, Sony gonna put their games on PC too. Might as well just be only PC for you next gen.
Agnostic2020
Member
It would be a colossal failure to have two skus below ps5 . I agree with that . Now let’s see what happens
it_wasn't_me
Banned
There is a possibility for that because some insiders said about Github leaks regarding PS5 : "they do not match"
it_wasn't_me
Banned
They are, like bunch of other companies, they've canceled GDC presence, later whole GDC. Who knows will they keep "digital conference" or whatever.
PS HQ is in CA, yes, but Jim Ryan, Mark Cerny, Shu, Hermen Hulst aren't there.
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Kazekage1981
Member
i want lockhart to be more of a mobile form factor kind of like Nintendo switch. Except it would have 5g and wifi6.
pasterpl
Member
what fact? as far as I know there was no official confirmation of Lockhar, it is just an unconfirmed rumour
Would it be a failure though? All indications are that they're pretty close and will most likely be the same price. If PS5 and Series X are $499 and Lockhart is $299 that seems like a big win regardless of Series X being a little more or a little less powerful than PS5.
zufuel
Member
I guess it's going to be new hardware. With SSD, 4Tf RDNA 2, new processor, no reader ....
That would make sense.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Wanted to compile a list of all insiders here who have hinted at PS5 Specs (mostly tflops)
Gaf Insiders
Outside Insiders
Not a single mention of 8 or 9.2 tflops. Things are not looking good for Github truthers.
Gaf Insiders
- Osiris - 12+
- Heisenberg - First Source 9.5 Tflops (SIE dev?) Second Source 11+ tflops.
- BGs - Hinting at 11-13+ tflops
- WhispersInTheWind - 11 Tflops
- o'dium - 11.5 tflops
Outside Insiders
- Klee - 12+ tflops (based on his reaction to Series X being 12 tflops)
- Ex Ubisoft Employe Britney - 14 tflops
- Jason - >10.7 tflops
Not a single mention of 8 or 9.2 tflops. Things are not looking good for Github truthers.
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Zero707
If I carry on trolling, report me.
Fun Fanboy
Banned
Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Be prepared for MS to hold everyone back with a 4TF machine cause they cant compete on equal ground,.
Agnostic2020
Member
Bgs hint is more around 11.5 rdna tf imo
LED Guy?
Banned
I’m talking about gaming consoles, that’s all.
Aceofspades
Banned
True, because Sony phoned MS in 2014 and asked them about Lockhart existence, when MS confirmed that . . . Sony was "ok we will go with 9.2TF then , bye
" SARCASM
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Both are big companies, Sony is a big hardware company and can do its software as well, Microsoft is a software giant. I would still see Microsoft being more important for servers and so, but it might not be that big of a difference profit-wise. I can see both companies agreeing to AMD's suggestiong to use similar die and APU specs with minor tweaks here and there that can benefit both companies to avoid $600 and get as low as $500. After all, those are companies that seek profits, and Sony is benefiting from Microsoft's Azure, MS using Sony's blu-ray? Not sure.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
ok. changed it to 11-13+.
Still no mention of 9.2 tflops anywhere. Even Jason said >2080 performance for both. 9.2 tflops would be = 2070 performance.
Handy Fake
Member
I suppose for the younger ones, aye I agree.
I dunno. It just seems a bit backasswards to me, heh.
ethomaz
Banned
Is that so? Where are these margins data?Corrected that for you.
I'm sure AMD made the same technologies available to both, if there are large differences it's because parts of the chips were designed in-house at MS or Sony and then integrated.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
Me too. Just going to wait for next gen to drop then I’ll get one. Technology is going to get better and cheaper.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
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Apollo Helios
Member
If Lockhart turns out to be real, it has got to be at least 6TF no matter what new gen features it has, it has got to beat One X in that metric, being at least 6TF.
It doesn't matter if 4TF RDNA2 and Zen2 can beat a 6TF One X, you have to beat that number! Or they are looking at a marketing nightmare.
Now onto the other thing, if Lockhart is real and MS reveals it Soon™ then;
a) Although the price points are not revealed as of yet, and probably will be left out of initial MS reveal, Sony is pretty much fucked if they do and fucked if they don't, they will be sandwiched between the two SKUs if they are not willing to eat a lot of the cost, and to at least price match whichever is close to its power level, and perhaps undercut to entice consumers thinking of MS' 2 SKUs.
b) Well shit.... MS gone ahead and revealed not just one but TWO consoles while Soony™ couldn't reveal PS5 WOW that would be huge!
It doesn't matter if 4TF RDNA2 and Zen2 can beat a 6TF One X, you have to beat that number! Or they are looking at a marketing nightmare.
Now onto the other thing, if Lockhart is real and MS reveals it Soon™ then;
a) Although the price points are not revealed as of yet, and probably will be left out of initial MS reveal, Sony is pretty much fucked if they do and fucked if they don't, they will be sandwiched between the two SKUs if they are not willing to eat a lot of the cost, and to at least price match whichever is close to its power level, and perhaps undercut to entice consumers thinking of MS' 2 SKUs.
b) Well shit.... MS gone ahead and revealed not just one but TWO consoles while Soony™ couldn't reveal PS5 WOW that would be huge!
Neo Blaster
Member
That's why I think Lockart will be a replacement for the One S/X.
M.Night Shyamalan
Member
After holding the generation at 1.2TF baseline, here they come to do it again, but at 4TF.
Bladed Thesis
Member
Star Wars Kenners were like gold 10-15 years ago. I haven't checked their value in awhile but I've got a complete set of the entire line including Snaggletooth and Yak Face.When I first moved out, I moved into a place that had a sealed up ceiling space, long since forgotten. I got curious one day and decided to see what was in there, as it was technically now mine.
Inside was a classic game gear official carrying case, complete with game gear and several games. Plus a bag of vintage Star Wars original run figures. My wife (wasn’t then but you know) doesn’t understand the excitement.
But to me, I was like a pig in shit
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
No I agree MS is affected by the Corona stuff, I was just speaking more about next-gen reveals/announcements in general. Before and since Corona became a thing. That's what I was referring to when saying Sony's silence isn't just affected by Corona; the digital events alone show there are ways around the Corona mess.
Fair point about Ryan, Shu and the others tho. Who's heading the day-to-day at PS headquarters, then?
Understandable, but still, AMD's proceedings with Sony and MS isn't solely influenced by one type of product.
But the 2070 only comes with 8GB of RAM. And it's arguable a 9.2TF chip (or even somewhat higher clocked, if the actual chip is 40CU max, hypothetically speaking) with at least 16GB of RAM to feed it on a wider bus (512 GB/s vs. 448 GB/s) would be at least slightly above a 2080 tbh.
If a company is doing business with them for multiple products in multiple market sectors, sectors that are of great importance to AMD financially, I'm just saying...that's gonna rub off into other things like deals set for the gaming console side of things, too.
SportsFan581
Member
Just look at the BOM estimates for PS4 and Xbone, now minus the cost of the fabrication process. It's easy to extrapolate that the "licensing" fee AMD is collecting on these chips is nothing extraordinary. AMD has enterprise products with profit margins at 4 figures a pop. Value in all contracts is based on the net profit on the contract not on the number of widgets ordered. A contract for 10 widgets at $1,000 profit each is worth more than the contract for 1,000 widgets at $1 profit each. I'm sure both Sony and MS have similar contracts with AMD, AMD wants the business because they want ALL the business. However, the consoles aren't real revenue drivers for them. The console business was important when AMD was near bankruptcy because the contracts funded R&D that AMD otherwise couldn't afford, that isn't necessarily the case today.
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