geordiemp
Member
2 Ghz as a STRESS test - OK, but I dont believe it will be that in consumer consoles. Cant see it
Also as a consumer who wants to buy a console that is running hot, no thanks. Cerny is not stupid.
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2 Ghz as a STRESS test - OK, but I dont believe it will be that in consumer consoles. Cant see it
Also as a consumer who wants to buy a console that is running hot, no thanks. Cerny is not stupid.
Smoke6
Member
Seriously lol tht shit annoying
man this is a lie that’s been told for a while now!
I could have sworn we were told in last generations how the previous consoles were holding back their “visions” of what there games were supposed to have been!
This is an 8tflop difference and you’re telling me everything is gonna be the same except for resolution? Ok!
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I GUESS that if they don't touch base tech like SSD and GDDR6 you could just scale down texture, rest, frame rate, particles etc while still maintaining next gen as target. The real problem would be if there is no SSD, that can't be fixed.
Anyway I do not have the competence to say for certain, what I say is just that in general a weaker hardware is taken in consideration both on PCs and consoles, which can mean just lower settings or entirely different design.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Sony are planning on releasing exclusives on day 1 for the PS5 only that are coded with PS5 tech like the SSD in mind for example, they just won't run on the PS4... Sony want people who own a PS4 to transition to the PS5 as quickly as possible... Microsoft on the other hand are happy to just cross platform for the first year and a half.
Look at Godfall for example, that's a PS5 exclusive and PC... No PS4 version
Yes devs will still create games for the PS4 but Sony's first party devs will be focusing on the PS5 exclusivity.
If its bollocks I'll eat my words... Just as I'll eat my words if the PS5 isn't a 9tf or lower machine
Lol wat? Godfall is a 3rd-party game, and a running meme is that it looks like a PS4 game with higher IQ and RT enabled (not saying that's my personal opinion on it (I think it looks pretty good visually), but it is an opinion a lot of people who've seen footage think).
We can assume Sony will have some exclusives at launch, the question is which ones have actually been announced? Zero so far, that's the problem. And there are multiple ways to transition people from an older platform to the newer one: considering 3rd-party AAA games are usually the biggest draws to either Sony or MS consoles, that transition can be met through other things such as an attractive price point, or new services tied to the new console, etc. It doesn't solely mean exclusive games.
You are also misunderstanding how AAA game development is these days. Both systems will have SSDs with at least some giant chunk of NAND (be it 3D NAND, PCM, or a mix of both) memory-mapped to virtual RAM cache (the NAND; PCM Xpoint-style memory would act more like an actual persistent RAM, but I'm only entertaining this because someone else linked something the other day about Micron's X100 SSDs which looks intriguing) , and both will make it very easy for devs to take advantage of this. Game engines are designed to be scaled not just with graphics but also game logic, AI, physics systems etc.
Therefore it's magnitudes easier than in the past to develop for the upper end and then scale down. There will even be instances of last-gen games getting ports by completely different dev teams, that happened with some 360 and PS3 versions of early-gen XBO and PS4 games.
No, he said above 10.7 (hence the >), but that was referring to Stadia, which is GCN.
So when you take that comparison and reference into context, "even" a 7TF Navi GPU would have equal to better performance than that. So practically everything we've seen and/or heard from both systems pushes them well past Stadia.
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demigod
Member
Nope I’m not wrong. Your first comment about PC was wrong thats how I know you’re not a pc gamer yet you tried to pretend as one.
Lol how do you know PS5 is weaker, do you have the specs or talking from your anus as usual? Also a -10% is not a huge difference compared to 30%+.
SportsFan581
Member
Never implied otherwise. However, if a lower priced console proved to be a gateway to increasing subscription and software revenue, expect Sony to have their own low spec unit on the market as quick as they could (maybe a year or two down the line if they didn't have something worked up already).
No it doesn’t. Forum posters say it, but that doesn’t make it true
demigod
Member
Can you tell me where this magical lower spec is when it didn’t happen with the ps3?
01011001
Banned
have you seen Digital foundry's tests? they tested a 9+TF GPU vs a 4TF gpu of the same architecture, and the resolution scaled almost perfectly with the performance.
the 4TF gpu ran games at 1080p at higher framerates than the 9-10TF gpu did at 4k at the same settings.
and at 4TF at 1440p vs 9-10TF at 4k they were basically tied in performance
Lunatic_Gamer
Member
DualShock 5 Can "Correct" Haptic Feedback Levels For Each Game
Sony has already announced that the new DualShock 5 controller will feature an evolved form of haptic feedback for a next-generation experience. Highly
segmentnext.com
Fun Fanboy
Banned
But you came in to my discussion with a guy who WAS talking about lockhart... and PS5. Both new consoles.
So.... yeah.
SportsFan581
Member
I don't know what you are on about. Clearly, the Lockhart strategy is NEW for the console market. If it fails, Sony does nothing. If it succeeds, Sony would likely counter.
The idea of a volume part at a lower price isn't new at all to PC (check the most popular cards on Steam), but it is new to console. We'll see how it goes if it happens.
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Fun Fanboy
Banned
Maybe it's ESL or something going on here. I never said I was a pc gamer. Lol.
And how do I know PS5 is weaker? Too much smoke around for it not to be.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
zubairali2
Member
lockhart imo is not a good idea. releasing two next gen console might split the fanbase a little
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saintjules
Member
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demigod
Member
Not a pc gamer yet you had to chime in about pc gaming, hilarious.
Which devs? And what are their concerns?
Fake
Member
About you comparing 'PC holding PC'. Never mention Lockhart in my post.
Fake
Member
Christ... people are so damn lazy in this forum.
Xbox Scarlett’s Low-End Lockhart Model Reportedly Has Significantly Less RAM than Anaconda
Xbox Scarlett developers reportedly aren't exactly thrilled with entry-level Lockhart model. Find out why they're not happy.
wccftech.com
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Shmunter
Member
You know, this kind of Mega lineup really does seem to require all the air in the room. Probably the soundest reason for shutting up about a next gen consoles atm. Well done.
Fun Fanboy
Banned
Fun Fanboy
Banned
Well I guess all better hope PS5 is on par with Xbox. Since PS5 will hold back all third party games.
demigod
Member
You seem to not get it at all.
I digress.
When being proven wrong, resort to either attacks or memes. /bye
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Like last time a lot of "forum insiders" turn out to be completely false.
While your list of them seem to say a majority of over 11tflops. However Sony going for a $499 just seems to go against logic for sony, it just does not make sense for Sony to chase the power crown.
If PS5 was originally set for 2019 @ a more realistic 1800mhz for 36cus, but when they needed to delay they decided to use the extra time to make it 2000mhz and give more performance, while it's not optimal it may explain Sony's serious cooling system shown on the devkit and reports of them spending more on cooling then usual.
It's funny that now the XsX has been confirmed 12tflops people seems to forget how insanely powerful that is.
When these next gen console predictions started anyone suggesting 14 gcn tflops were laughed out the room. And now 14 gcn tflops is weak sauce.
Fake
Member
Well I guess all better hope PS5 is on par with Xbox. Since PS5 will hold back all third party games.
Indeed. More impressive are dev/insiders saying the differencial is around 10% or both consoles are so fucking close, but still we get people saying 8TF.
demigod
Member
Christ... people are so damn lazy in this forum.
Xbox Scarlett’s Low-End Lockhart Model Reportedly Has Significantly Less RAM than Anaconda
Xbox Scarlett developers reportedly aren't exactly thrilled with entry-level Lockhart model. Find out why they're not happy.
Do you think they are lazy? I think they just pretend that they never heard of it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well I guess all better hope PS5 is on par with Xbox. Since PS5 will hold back all third party games.
It would a bit if it were 40%+ less powerful like the fanatical cultists are praying for it to be.
That is why I laugh are their chucklefuck ignorance of said double edged sword and being careful what you wish for.
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Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Am I in some dream world? Where people have honestly just said that a lockhart machine will hold back the main SX?
Seriously?
If you mentioned the older consoles, I can at least try and see where you’re coming from. There, you need to put in serious work, sometimes even a full on different approach, to get something that would work on SX working on a One. But then you would expect that, with the lack of SSD and awful CPU.
A lockhart however, is different, and this is from somebody that doesn’t even like the damn thing. Lockhart is essentially the main SX machine, with reduced GPU performance and reduced ram. These are reduced because, low and behold, when you lower your target resolution, you free up some memory and need less system GPU grunt to do it. The CPU and SSD are reportedly the same in both consoles.
In short, there is nothing that an SX can do at 12tf, that the lock hart can’t do with reduced resolution and a few settings toned down.
Ive been making games for nearly twenty years, and have yet to hear such a big bag of bollocks as this. Armchair developers who read some place that the Xbox one will hold back the SX, and assume that means the lockhart will do the same. That’s NOT why it even exists, IF it even exists. What the fuck would be the point
otherwise?!
I mean... Wow... Do a LITTLE research first, please?
edit: I honestly think because are seeing what the idea was with the Xbox one and Xbox one x, and just applying the same logic, without a single thought beforehand.
Seriously?
If you mentioned the older consoles, I can at least try and see where you’re coming from. There, you need to put in serious work, sometimes even a full on different approach, to get something that would work on SX working on a One. But then you would expect that, with the lack of SSD and awful CPU.
A lockhart however, is different, and this is from somebody that doesn’t even like the damn thing. Lockhart is essentially the main SX machine, with reduced GPU performance and reduced ram. These are reduced because, low and behold, when you lower your target resolution, you free up some memory and need less system GPU grunt to do it. The CPU and SSD are reportedly the same in both consoles.
In short, there is nothing that an SX can do at 12tf, that the lock hart can’t do with reduced resolution and a few settings toned down.
Ive been making games for nearly twenty years, and have yet to hear such a big bag of bollocks as this. Armchair developers who read some place that the Xbox one will hold back the SX, and assume that means the lockhart will do the same. That’s NOT why it even exists, IF it even exists. What the fuck would be the point
otherwise?!
I mean... Wow... Do a LITTLE research first, please?
edit: I honestly think because are seeing what the idea was with the Xbox one and Xbox one x, and just applying the same logic, without a single thought beforehand.
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Physiognomonics
Member
Yes but Xbox Series X is 12 tf, not 9 tf. So that test is not a valid test at all.
Fake
Member
|OT| - Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
I think that's a possibility. Let's not forget the original Gonzalo leak from early 2019 had a presumably 36 CU's at 1Ghz, then later it was clocked up to 1.8Ghz if the analysis is correct. Then Github had that clocked at 2Ghz. I mean there's no way native PS5 mode was ever gonna be targeting 36...
Devs have been saying this, not me. Ask for them. You can either send an email for Rich from Digital Foundry.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Who wants just resolution scaling? Then you just have another mid gen solution at day one.
How about balls to the wall bells and whistles in that 12TF box. Not just scaling up to 4K from a anemic little brother in comparison.
saintjules
Member
Agreed. Maybe July for reveal? I mean there are People thinking that because these games are pending release, it would conflict with a Console reveal. Not sure if I'd think the same way, but it's an interesting sub-topic.
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Christ... people are so damn lazy in this forum.
Xbox Scarlett’s Low-End Lockhart Model Reportedly Has Significantly Less RAM than Anaconda
Xbox Scarlett developers reportedly aren't exactly thrilled with entry-level Lockhart model. Find out why they're not happy.
That doesn’t answer the question.
A random anonymous confirmation of “concern” over a rumored product that does not exist.
Is not proof of anything. Let alone your claims that Lockhart will “hold back” Series X.
So again, what devs? And what are their concerns?
McHuj
Member
I'm a little surprised that Ghost of Tsushima is coming in June. I thought that was going to be a fall game.
However... I wonder if that's implying that PS5 is scheduled to be a Sept/Oct release instead of November. I feel that would be a big surprise move by Sony if they were able to launch earlier.
However... I wonder if that's implying that PS5 is scheduled to be a Sept/Oct release instead of November. I feel that would be a big surprise move by Sony if they were able to launch earlier.
01011001
Banned
okay, that comment should disqualify you from any tech talk from now on... jesus christ...
the 4TF gpu performed better at 1080p than the 9tf at 4k
we can therefore deduct from that that a 12TF gpu will most likely have similar performance at 4k as the 4TF gpu has at 1080p.
any Performance difference will most likely be negligible and could be fixed by a slight reduction in the settings (draw distance, AA, lighting etc.)
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
You’re not understanding the logic behind it.
Games are made at the higher performance level, bells and whistles and all.
Lower and turn off bells and whistles, lower your footprint, and lower your resolution.
That’s your lockhart version.
I know what you’re all doing. You’re confusing the talks people had about a game can run with everything looking amazing on an SX, but then also work on a One. That’s a valid area of discussion, because there your cpu is heavily lowered, your memory much slower, and you have a slow ass mechanical drive.
Shmunter
Member
I’m not certain why you’re not considering this a 2 way scenario? I.e targeting a game for 1440p and harnessing 12tf within that frame buffer, throwing in some modern upscaling, dsr, etc to get free 4K.
Where does that leave the system with 1/3 the muscle? Up shit creek. So instead of cornering oneself into a bad situation you just build it for the lower spec to start with, especially if that spec is the bigger install base. Let the 12tf run the same limited game at native 4K or 120fps without effort.
That’s not dream world, that’s the plausible and most likely reality.
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Fake
Member
|OT| - Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
I think that's a possibility. Let's not forget the original Gonzalo leak from early 2019 had a presumably 36 CU's at 1Ghz, then later it was clocked up to 1.8Ghz if the analysis is correct. Then Github had that clocked at 2Ghz. I mean there's no way native PS5 mode was ever gonna be targeting 36...
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Maybe series X will have additional graphical features like more Ray tracing, effects etc on top of being native 4k.
For example the next elder Scrolls might light this
Lockhart: 1440p, VRS - high, RT - high , other settings - high
PS5: 4K, High RT, other settings - high.
XsX: 4k, very high RT, other settings - very high.
Your post is wrong.|OT| - Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
I think that's a possibility. Let's not forget the original Gonzalo leak from early 2019 had a presumably 36 CU's at 1Ghz, then later it was clocked up to 1.8Ghz if the analysis is correct. Then Github had that clocked at 2Ghz. I mean there's no way native PS5 mode was ever gonna be targeting 36...www.neogaf.com
No dev has ever said “Lockhart will hold Series X back”
You made that up
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Exactly what I am talking about.
Every Sony 1P game is designed around the base system to the max they can on a 1080p frame buffer. They admit to this, and they produce arguably some of the best looking games today.
They then add the marginal (mainly resolution) bells and whistles for the 4.2TF box. Same thing happens with the X. The other way around, the games would suffer far worse, not only visually, but performance wise on the base units. And with that other way around both the X and the Pro would produce games that would melt comparatively. They are not used to their full potential, because of the base systems.
What do you think is going to happen even worse with the 1S and X still being a policy for MS first party? No SSD, slow ram, sluggish CPU?
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Fun Fanboy
Banned
I wouldn't even bother. That one dude just totally made it seem like I said stuff I didn't. Somehow this Xbot is a PC master race now! When all I'm saying is these new consoles won't hold back the others. Much like my cheesy PC doesn't hold back anyone elses bad ass gaming rig. Lol.. Good post though above.
I work right next door to ready at dawn. I'm going to ask one of them if I see one on my walk break. Wonder if they can answer that.
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Fake
Member
Are you denial or what? A bunch of tech sites saying devs, but now you want the name of the devs? Are you serious?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
But when they speculate about 8TF or 9.2TF from these same sites, those are #truthfacts!
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ResilientBanana
Member
I have an 8TF (GTX 1080) video card in my PC right now. At 1080P I can run most games at ultra settings at 120+ fps and then some. The moment I set my shit to 4k it's over, it's not doing shit and I'm stuck at 10-20fps on ultra settings, maybe. So for what it's worth It's not a lie. People that think otherwise are literally full of shit. Also, who wants to upscale anything next gen with 12TF under the hood?
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Shmunter
Member
There’s no question about it. Especially when you factor in a dominant seller aspect. The path of least resistance is not only human nature, it’s business economics.
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