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[Shangounchained]

Ram is everything graphics so 16gb is proper shit, infact complete nonesense this is why they kept talking about buzz words like vrs, cause you need tricks to worl with low memory. 16gb isnt next generation its simply a xbox one upgrade.

Considering high memory prices recession and corona virus i cant complain much but thats it 16gb is the nail in the coffin. Xbox fucked up again.

 

[diffusionx]

RAM is always one of those things you wish you had more of, but they have to draw the line somewhere. This does not look like a cheap system to build.

Still I predict in 3 years "RAM-starved" will be the new "slow Jaguar"

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

16GB dedicated for games would be ok, the problem is 2.5gb is reserved for a bloated OS and they've split the memory with two different speeds.

This leaves an open goal for PS5 to beat them like the'8gb GDDR5' moment

 

[Shangounchained]

RAM is always one of those things you wish you had more of, but they have to draw the line somewhere. This does not look like a cheap system to build.

Still I predict in 3 years "RAM-starved" will be the new "slow Jaguar"

16gb is shit no matter how you put it its not next gen, what matters in computer graphics is memory and bandwidth, means bigger assets more resolution and so forth but i had a hunch. Loading times and vrs virtual texturing are going to be all they talk about.

 

[K.N.W.]

I honestly believe it will severely limit games' complexity, scope and maps' size. I hope that developers who want to make more complex games, switch to PC/higher ram machines.

 

[Shangounchained]

16GB dedicated for games would be ok, the problem is 2.5gb is reserved for a bloated OS and they've split the memory with two different speeds.

This leaves an open goal for PS5 to beat them like the'8gb GDDR5' moment

Nope 16gb isnt next gen it isnt at all its simply 2x the graphics of ps4 and xbone and considering 4k-8k textures its complete shit.

 

[Shangounchained]

I honestly believe it will severely limit games' complexity, scope and maps' size. I hope that developers who want to make more complex games, switch to PC/higher ram machines.

Pc is limited to this shity consoles cause now theyll target 16gb bullcrap

 

[Azelover]

I'm gonna sound really ignorant, because I don't know much about hardware these days. But I'm gonna post this anyway.

The PS2 had about ten times the amount of RAM of the PS1. The PS3 had more than eight times the RAM of the PS2. And the PS4 had 16 times the total RAM of the PS3. So, we're really settling for just 16GB of RAM for next gen? Maybe it has something to do with the speed. But so did previous gens.

I don't get it. But please be gentle with me, because I don't know much about this stuff anymore.

 

[Shin]

bloated OS and they've split the memory with two different speeds.
This leaves an open goal for PS5 to beat them like the'8gb GDDR5' moment

That it is, not a fan of Windows in a console despite even Dreamcast having Windoes CE all the way back.
Compared to Linux it still have a bigger footprint because of so many things that weren't meant for gaming.
I can't speak of Game Core or Gaming Core (whatever it's called), but that's a part of the OS itself I think?
Someone explained the split pool of memory and while it seems ok, I still don't know if it's a total bandwidth or max 560Gb/s from the 10.

Sony could be using Samsung 16Gb chips that went into mass production given the amount PS4 sold/selling (cheaper price per chip, etc etc).

 

[K.N.W.]

Pc is limited to this shity consoles cause now theyll target 16gb bullcrap

That's why I hope they make exclusives for PC and machines with more RAM... If those will exist

 

[Kazekage1981]

what about using the SSD for virtual ram and game asset streaming?

I agree 13 gb available for games is low. I wish it was 16 gb available for games.

 

[Shangounchained]

That's why I hope they make exclusives for PC and machines with more RAM... If those will exist

They wont. Trust me xbox is pc now and so is playstation in a kind of way everything will be made to run on 16 gb machines and then ported to ur pc

 

[LOLCats]

You know, youre right, its not very forward thinking, but for right now and the next year or two it should be fine.

 

[CJY]

I'm gonna sound really ignorant, because I don't know much about hardware these days. But I'm gonna post this anyway.

The PS2 had about ten times the amount of RAM of the PS1. The PS3 had more than eight times the RAM of the PS2. And the PS4 had 16 times the total RAM of the PS3. So, we're really settling for just 16GB of RAM for next gen? Maybe it has something to do with the speed. But so did previous gens.

I don't get it. But please be gentle with me, because I don't know much about this stuff anymore.

Hmm... I totally forgot about this. Thanks for bringing it up.

16GB of RAM is really, really, really shit isn't it? Doesn't make any sense when seen in the light of previous gens.

 

[Shangounchained]

what about using the SSD for virtual ram and game asset streaming?

I agree 13 gb available for games is low. I wish it was 16 gb available for games.

Its still low, infact its still speed its just bandwidth i dont see how they can load 100gb per frame its gonna be tricks lod tesselation vrs and all sorts of tricks its bogus. Freaking 16gb what are they thinking.

 

[K.N.W.]

They wont. Trust me xbox is pc now and so is playstation in a kind of way everything will be made to run on 16 gb machines and then ported to ur pc

Wait, we can't know for sure about PS5's RAM. And there are still some PC exclusives, really rare, but still.....

 

[Shangounchained]

You know, youre right, its not very forward thinking, but for right now and the next year or two it should be fine.

No its not, its not even right now. The reason games look the way they are is because of console limitation. They engineer this assets to fit in 8gb consoles.

 

[Shin]

what about using the SSD for virtual ram and game asset streaming?

I agree 13 gb available for games is low. I wish it was 16 gb available for games.

Well that's the thing, none of us knows what's actually needed.
We think X and Z is good/needed but it's far fetched from reality unfortunately, it makes us feel better but the platform holders are the ones that do the research + get feedback from devs.
I'll give them the benefit of a doubt, despite being in the same boat as most people in this thread, it just seems far fetched that they'd screw something that important up - all things considered.

 

[Shangounchained]

Wait, we can't know for sure about PS5's RAM. And there are still some PC exclusives, really rare, but still.....

We cant know about ps5 but xbox fucked ps5 already, the next fifa even if ps5 has 32gb will be bottlenecked by the xbox

 

[Kazekage1981]

it will take XsX Pro for it to have maybe 20-25 GB available for games with GDDR6x and will probably be close to 800 GB/sec bandwidth, with wifi6 and usb 4.0, and SSD drive that could be close to 10 GB/sec.

Will it have a 8k Blu-ray disk optical drive though or will optical drives be obsolete by then?

 

[rob305]

Did you watch the digital foundry video? Its really fast RAM and the SSD can be used as RAM for slower stuff like textures

 

[Shangounchained]

Hmm... I totally forgot about this. Thanks for bringing it up.

16GB of RAM is really, really, really shit isn't it? Doesn't make any sense when seen in the light of previous gens.

Ps5 and series x should have 128gb but thats not possible cosidering the prices but fucking 16 aint going to help shit its simply a pro console like ps4 pro or one x

 

[Caffeine]

16GB dedicated for games would be ok, the problem is 2.5gb is reserved for a bloated OS and they've split the memory with two different speeds.

This leaves an open goal for PS5 to beat them like the'8gb GDDR5' moment

2.5GB reserved just for the ads on the home screen.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Aren’t you the guy who was trying to say you could calculate how many FPS a console could do based on its RAM alone?

 

[diffusionx]

I'm gonna sound really ignorant, because I don't know much about hardware these days. But I'm gonna post this anyway.

The PS2 had about ten times the amount of RAM of the PS1. The PS3 had more than eight times the RAM of the PS2. And the PS4 had 16 times the total RAM of the PS3. So, we're really settling for just 16GB of RAM for next gen? Maybe it has something to do with the speed. But so did previous gens.

I don't get it. But please be gentle with me, because I don't know much about this stuff anymore.

It is objectively disappointing and a low number. I think this is where MS chose to cut costs and make up for it in APIs or something.

I've had 32GB of RAM in my PC since 2017. And my 1080TI has 11GB of VRAM. Now I spent too much on that RAM, it was dumb, but prices are dropping and I assume that the next round of Nvidia GPUs are going to be launching with 12-20 as standard. I really thought MS would go to 24GB at least.

 

[darkinstinct]

Is this what concern trolling looks like?

 

[Shangounchained]

it will take XsX Pro for it to have maybe 20-25 GB available for games with GDDR6x and will probably be close to 800 GB/sec bandwidth, with wifi6 and usb 4.0, and SSD drive that could be close to 10 GB/sec.

Will it have a 8k Blu-ray disk optical drive though or will optical drives be obsolete by then?

The assets will be the same but just like one x will be 8k 120

 

[Hostile_18]

For everyone complaining about RAM theres another person complaining about price.

There has to be a compromise somewhere. I'm sure the system architects know more than us when it comes to how each part works together and dosnt create bottlenecks. There not going to give us a great gpu for example that wont reach its potential otherwise they would of just gone for a lesser part and decreased the overall cost.

 

[Stuart360]

Ps5 and series x should have 128gb but thats not possible cosidering the prices but fucking 16 aint going to help shit its simply a pro console like ps4 pro or one x

 

[Shangounchained]

Did you watch the digital foundry video? Its really fast RAM and the SSD can be used as RAM for slower stuff like textures

It doesnt matter how fast the ram is sometimes. U get more fps with tge same assets with faster ram but you dont get bigger assets ram is graphics doent matter if ur 30tera flops with shit ram ur done for.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Ah, so this is why they've harped on tflops so loudly.

Some of us called this out at the original announcement thread and were called fanboys for not fawning over it.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I think it’s gonna be fine.

24gigs would have been aces but 16 isnt going to anchor the generation as egregiously as the Jaguar CPUs did this gen IMO

 

[Stuart360]

Aren’t you the guy who was trying to say you could calculate how many FPS a console could do based on its RAM alone?

Half his post history is ram this, ram that, lol.

 

[Shangounchained]

For everyone complaining about RAM theres another person complaining about price.

There has to be a compromise somewhere. I'm sure the system architects know more than us when it comes to how each part works together and dosnt create bottlenecks. There not going to give us a great gpu for example that wont reach its potential otherwise they would of just gone for a lesser part and decreased the overall cost.

Honestly i dont care about price itll always get lower point is next generation and ur still stuck with old graphics

 

[Shangounchained]

I'm gonna sound really ignorant, because I don't know much about hardware these days. But I'm gonna post this anyway.

The PS2 had about ten times the amount of RAM of the PS1. The PS3 had more than eight times the RAM of the PS2. And the PS4 had 16 times the total RAM of the PS3. So, we're really settling for just 16GB of RAM for next gen? Maybe it has something to do with the speed. But so did previous gens.

I don't get it. But please be gentle with me, because I don't know much about this stuff anymore.

Its 16x every gen ps1 2mb ps2 32mb ps3 512 ps4 8gb

 

[IntentionalPun]

With Sony having rumored an even faster SSD also with minimal CPU usage you just don't need much RAM and I would expect them to also shoot for 16GB.

You need enough to paint what's on screen and some reasonable distance in any direction; then your game streams what it needs into RAM in the background. That's what the fast / low CPU usage SSDs give you.

You've never needed 32 GB of system ram on Windows, 16 is already overkill unless you are running multiple VMs or something. You likely constantly have massive amounts of free RAM that is doing nothing for you.

 

[Kazekage1981]

cell phones now have pretty much the same amount of RAM as Xbone x lol

granted its LPDDR4 and not GDDR5

 

[Shangounchained]

It is objectively disappointing and a low number. I think this is where MS chose to cut costs and make up for it in APIs or something.

I've had 32GB of RAM in my PC since 2017. And my 1080TI has 11GB of VRAM. Now I spent too much on that RAM, it was dumb, but prices are dropping and I assume that the next round of Nvidia GPUs are going to be launching with 12-20 as standard. I really thought MS would go to 24GB at least.

They engineer the games to work on 8gb consoles your 32gb system ram isnt used, they dont design them that way and system ram is slower than vram

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

That it is, not a fan of Windows in a console despite even Dreamcast having Windoes CE all the way back.
Compared to Linux it still have a bigger footprint because of so many things that weren't meant for gaming.
I can't speak of Game Core or Gaming Core (whatever it's called), but that's a part of the OS itself I think?
Someone explained the split pool of memory and while it seems ok, I still don't know if it's a total bandwidth or max 560Gb/s from the 10.

Sony could be using Samsung 16Gb chips that went into mass production given the amount PS4 sold/selling (cheaper price per chip, etc etc).

I honestly dont understand MS' choice here.

Why not just include a single unified 16GB GDDR6 setup like will be on AMD/Nvidia's cards later this year, and include a separate 2-3gb of cheap DDR4 for the OS (which I predict will be slow and bloaty as per usual)?

I believe PS5's approach will not be the same and there's a good chance it will be preferable.

 

[Shangounchained]

cell phones now have pretty much the same amount of RAM as Xbone x lol

granted its LPDDR4 and not GDDR5

Its still shit trust me 16gb is shiiiit not for a next gen console amd defientely makes 12 teraflops useless

 

[Shangounchained]

I honestly dont understand MS' choice here.

Why not just include a single unified 16GB GDDR6 setup like will be on AMD/Nvidia's cards later this year, and include a separate 2-3gb of cheap DDR4 for the OS (which I predict will be slow and bloaty as per usual)?

I believe PS5's approach will not be the same and there's a good chance it will be preferable.

Didnt they say the next nvidia and amd card will be 24-48gb

 

[Shangounchained]

With Sony having rumored an even faster SSD also with minimal CPU usage you just don't need much RAM and I would expect them to also shoot for 16GB.

You need enough to paint what's on screen and some reasonable distance in any direction; then your game streams what it needs into RAM in the background. That's what the fast / low CPU usage SSDs give you.

You've never needed 32 GB of system ram on Windows, 16 is already overkill unless you are running multiple VMs or something. You likely constantly have massive amounts of free RAM that is doing nothing for you.

Jesus you always need more ram. Ram is graphics the ssd simply loads to ram quicker, amd yes theyll have more tricks of asset streaming but what really makes graphics is how much the ram can hold.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Gotta love that concern trolling.

 

[rob305]

It doesnt matter how fast the ram is sometimes. U get more fps with tge same assets with faster ram but you dont get bigger assets ram is graphics doent matter if ur 30tera flops with shit ram ur done for.

Thats why devs can use the SSD to offload stuff that usually goes to the RAM and use the actual RAM for assets that need fast access only. Watch todays digital foundry video theyre explaining it there

 

[Shin]

shoot for 16GB.

Possible, a while back I did some searching about how much memory you need (VRAM).
It was 2 years ago or so and Shadow of Mordor or something Mordor used about 12GB with high/ultra texture and maxed out.
Granted that game wasn't build on 4K and all and even today if you do some searching they'll say 16GB is enough for gaming and that's system memory not VRAM.

 

[CJY]

You've never needed 32 GB of system ram on Windows, 16 is already overkill unless you are running multiple VMs or something. You likely constantly have massive amounts of free RAM that is doing nothing for you.

I personally have 96GB of RAM for my Mac and regularly push 30GB+ used just doing normal things. (no video editing or creating of any kind. When I do, i'll use a lottt more)

 

[phil_t98]

Didnt they say the next nvidia and amd card will be 24-48gb

and it will be more than the cost of a ps5 of xsx

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

Developers think of RAM as a bottomless pit they barely optimize for 8GB and now they're setting 16GB as the minimum.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Spot who didn't watch the video

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

They engineer the games to work on 8gb consoles your 32gb system ram isnt used, they dont design them that way and system ram is slower than vram

Come on, you must know 4K gaming requires much more ram than 1080p, which is the default for this old gen. Just check out Techpowerup game system reviews. When you add in RT and next gen features, games are going to eat into that VRAM fast.