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[Dave_at_Home]

I really can't believe people keep forgetting this, but Series X CPU runs at 3.6 with SMT on and 3.8 with SMT off.

 

[ToadMan]

Sony invests $250 million in Epic Games

https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/09/sony-invests-250-million-in-fortnite-maker-epic-games/ Sony has invested $250 million for a minority stake in Fortnite maker Epic Games, the companies announced today. With the new money, Epic Games has raised $1.83 billion to date. The companies said the...

www.neogaf.com

Probably good to share it here, it is kind of relevant. Wondering what MS have to say about this?

Nothing at all...

Epic is valued at $17billion USD and Sony have purchased $250 million in shares (from an epic funding round for $750 million USD).

That’s about 1.5% of Epic’s estimated value. That isn’t enough to get Tim Sweeney to do a face time without an appointment.

Sony have done what any other individual here could have done - looked at epic, felt they could grow in value and invested a portion of their wealth to fund and speculate on that growth. Perhaps after seeing the UE5 demo Sony knew epic were doing something awesome so decided to jump in.

From our perspective as consumers, this means nothing at all. In a few years this stake will be sold and the only response will be “Sony owned a piece of epic??? Who knew?”

 

[pasterpl]

Nothing at all...

Epic is valued at $17billion USD and Sony have purchased $250 million in shares (from an epic funding round for $750 million USD).

That’s about 1.5% of Epic’s estimated value. That isn’t enough to get Tim Sweeney to do a face time without an appointment.

Sony have done what any other individual here could have done - looked at epic, felt they could grow in value and invested a portion of their wealth to fund and speculate on that growth. Perhaps after seeing the UE5 demo Sony knew epic were doing something awesome so decided to jump in.

From our perspective as consumers, this means nothing at all. In a few years this stake will be sold and the only response will be “Sony owned a piece of epic??? Who knew?”

but wondering if this had an impact on what sweeny was saying about ps5

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Everything is a console war for you, right?

Or it's OK to point out how ridiculous it was that Sweeney said there wasn't any deal. You must understand how this looks now? Beside the fact that XSX is able to run UE5 games and demo's.

 

[jose4gg]

Or it's OK to point out how ridiculous it was that Sweeney said there wasn't any deal. You must understand how this looks now? Beside the fact that XSX is able to run UE5 games and demo's.

So two months ago Epic started this campaign talking about their new engine and talking about the great collaboration they have with Sony over the last couple of years in terms of developing technology to make Sony invest 250 million later, that's the whole plan... Instead of choosing MS that has more money to invest, they went with Sony, right? that's how it works?

 

[Dodkrake]

Nah. Let's be real here.
For whatever reason Sony ended up with a 36 CU GPU. Be that because of back compat or they were looking at launching in 2019.
Because of this they found themselves with a console that was behind the XSX in power levels, and so we're only left with increasing clocks to close the power gap. That led to other issues they needed to solve such as thermal and power.

Nobody in their right mind thinks that Sony went in to this gen with the goal of using variable clocks from the outset.

I think Sony have done a good job to get to where they have.

The whatever reason you're trying to find is AMDs roadmap. They are moving to chiplets of 40cus and will stack them to get 80.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

So two months ago Epic started this campaign talking about their new engine and talking about the great collaboration they have with Sony over the last couple of years in terms of developing technology to make Sony invest 250 million later, that's the whole plan... Instead of choosing MS that has more money to invest, they went with Sony, right? that's how it works?

Is that what I said?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Is that what I said?

Yes?

 

[jose4gg]

Is that what I said?

You are suggesting Epic has a deal with Sony, so the deal is show UE5 using PS5, defend the console in Twitter from the Xbox/PC Fanboys, and we will pay you 250 million, that's the deal that you're suggesting right?

Or exactly how this has to do with Tim comment that there wasn't any deal to show UE5 on PS5... I will wait for your theory...

 

[ToadMan]

but wondering if this had an impact on what sweeny was saying about ps5

Well this isn’t a marketing deal - that’s what was being thrown around at the time.

1.5% / 250 million investment doesn’t buy much these days so I’d guess this is Sony seeing an opportunity to make some cash back.

Tencent got a 40% stake of Epic in 2012 for 330million. Today Epic is valued at 17 billion!

In the space of 8 years Tencent grew 330million to about 6.8 billion and didn’t even have to work for it - a 2000 times growth of investment.

Sony want to try and ride that growth (who wouldn’t?) now so to me that’s what this is about. The rest of it is just nice words for Sony investors to hear.

Sweeney’s comments probably didn’t register in the Sony boardroom as they were considering this investment.

 

[ZeroFool]

I agree 100%

I am nobody vetted and have shared nothing here but I am somebody who worked closely with the industry first on the retail side then on the development side for almost 8 years now. I would never put my head out on anything I've heard on these nexy gen systems or games coming. It's just not worth it. And I have no interest in people asking me questions publically or in PMs or being harassed. Better to just keep to yourself and watch as things unfold.

We've got a great 5-7 years of gaming ahead regardless of your favorite plastic box. End of story. Everybody be happy.

I am a washed up indie developer from the 360 says, I probably couldn't even make a dolphin move nowadays. I have forgotten what NDAs I have signed, but I am positive none of them have been in the last 30-yrs.

I know nothing, other than I like to play games and play a complete gobber on this forum.

This I do promise, I will make a Hepa filter mod for the XSX and post it on Thingiverse. No offense to anyone, it reminds me more of the Mila air filter than it does a fridge.

PS5 design I can only come up with water desalination mod.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

You are suggesting Epic has a deal with Sony, so the deal is show UE5 using PS5, defend the console in Twitter from the Xbox/PC Fanboys, and we will pay you 250 million, that's the deal that you're suggesting right?

Or exactly how this has to do with Tim comment that there wasn't any deal to show UE5 on PS5... I will wait for your theory...

No, that's not what I was suggesting at all. I'm saying that Sweeney did free marketing for the PS5 because he knew Sony was going to invest. Completely different, no proof for this of course, it's just very obvious which you can see if you visit the topic about it. Everyone sees this.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

No, that's not what I was suggesting at all. I'm saying that Sweeney did free marketing for the PS5 because he knew Sony was going to invest. Completely different, no proof for this of course, it's just very obvious which you can see if you visit the topic about it. Everyone sees this.

It's more obvious he's defending what he actually believes in given how much time he wastes fighting twitter warriors

 

[Zzpaff]

I have beaten The Last of Us Part 2 & I’m just awed at this game, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, that Joel & Ellie conversation...

I’m really excited to double-dip for the PS5 remastered version, I would love to have enhanced shadows, textures, AF filtering & draw distance, but what I would love so much is maybe have like 2 modes.

1. Standard Native 4K 60 FPS like a normal remaster.

2. RT shadows, Global Illumination & reflections at 60 FPS with lower resolution than 4K.

It would be like heaven if this game got Ray-traced effects because at certain times with its dimly-lit scenes, it really needs those RT effects & that alone would make it look like real-life.

I finished it 10 minutes ago and I can't wait for ps5 I start it again now.
and I dream that the ps6 will launch a remake of the two parts in a single game.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

It's more obvious he's defending what he actually believes in given how much time he wastes fighting twitter warriors

That's your take on it, that's also fine.

 

[FranXico]

It's more obvious he's defending what he actually believes in given how much time he wastes fighting twitter warriors

He believes in money. I can agree with that.

 

[RiSA]

That engineering student has gotten so many things wrong... perhaps first year?

 

[Bladed Thesis]

He believes in money. I can agree with that.

So say we all.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

That engineering student has gotten so many things wrong... perhaps first year?

Feel free to enlighten us

 

[jose4gg]

No, that's not what I was suggesting at all. I'm saying that Sweeney did free marketing for the PS5 because he knew Sony was going to invest. Completely different, no proof for this of course, it's just very obvious which you can see if you visit the topic about it. Everyone sees this.

Ok if this is the theory let me give you a breakdown on how bad that sounds:

1 - UE5 get to beta/alpha ready to show something interesting to the public.
2- Tim realizes that Sony needs ?/want? they show that new engine on their console.
3- They do not speak, because as you are saying right now, you don't believe there was something signed up for, or they talk secretly and decides not doing something like they have done in the past or like MS and every other company does with 3rd party deals, that are clearly public, they go with the secret route.
4- Tim comes out with UE5 and claims he has years collaborating with Sony on this new tech.
5- Sony doesn't deny the claims.
6- Tim predicts that if he continues defending PS5 Sony will invest in their round so he keeps defending the console and talking about the things PS5 that a normal PC does not have.
7- Tim compromises the company saying on a Tweet that once the consoles are released all the code "as normally is for UE" will be open source and people will be able to see for themself what the create.
8- Sony sees all the Tim comments and thinks, yeah we should pay them for that.
9- Sony invests 250 million in Epic.

That's how it went for you right?

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

No, that's not what I was suggesting at all. I'm saying that Sweeney did free marketing for the PS5 because he knew Sony was going to invest. Completely different, no proof for this of course, it's just very obvious which you can see if you visit the topic about it. Everyone sees this.

That's literally laughable, I'm sorry to say
Yeah I'm sure Sweeney was really sweating to get that money, oh wait... do we know it was his shares Sony purchased?

The plot thickens

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

The GPU cant go over 2.23ghz. So if the GPU is already running full tilt, and the CPU is only at say 90% utilization, no the GPU isn't going to get any additional power from smartshift.

This whole thing stems from Sony going with a smaller GPU and having to clock it higher to get the performance they needed.
The power draw on the GPU would be very high, more likely higher than the XSX GPU.
Because of this thermal load it is not feasible from a cooling point of view, to cool it with everything running at full clocks for high periods of time.
So the clocks will be backed off if the game is such that it is demanding for periods of time.
Its not all about the speed of the GPU either.
The XSX GPU would be running at 1825mhz when you have stopped in game and are looking at the sky, and also 1825mhz when you are in a 100 man battle royal with shit flying everywhere. The power draw will be less when you are looking at the sky compared to when you are in the heat of the battle.
So with the PS 5 if you are playing a game like TLOU2, where its quite slow moving, the PS5 will no doubt be able to run full clocks. If however you are playing COD where there is intense fighting and effects on screen, then you are more likely to need to reduce clock speeds. Easy way to think about it is when you are playing your Pro and the games and areas that start the jet engines up, they are the times when the variable clocks might come in to play. What Smartshift will do, is if in these intense areas the GPU is at full tilt, but the CPU is only at 90% utilization, then Smartshift will allow the GPU to stay at full frequency. If the CPU is at full utilization, then the GPU will get it's clocked reduced. No one really knows how much it can go down to.
It also needs to be pointed out that if there is only a brief section of intense gameplay, it might not need to reduce clocks.
As no game is going to running at 100% intense utilization of the APU at all times, then as Cerny said, they will spend most of their time at full frequency.

Now If you re read what I wrote you will se I never said the GPU can go over 2.23ghz.

I said 'if the GPU is being highly utilised and running at max frequency and the CPU wasn’t at that moment (or visa versa), you could transfer more of the available power budget to enable the GPU to run at max, even if it already was, because the workload has increased and is now using more power to stay at max'

Its about workload and power and if there is the budget to transfer some it will as long as its within the power envelope.

The rest you have been replied to already but u will add that the design choices Sony took with 36CU's was for a reason. Theres only so much space on the die and xbox went for CU's PS5 has more io etc.

Also the PS5 is built with speed and efficiency in mind and the GPU is a fair bit faster than the Xbox and that has some benefits.

The reason PS5 can go so high is because it has the ability to drop if needed, the xbox doesn't and therefore has to guess and be conservative and run at less despite 99% of the time it should probably be at 2ghz. That's leaving performance on the table.

As for having to reduce clock speeds and by how much under heavy sections we will have to wait and see. But given even in those areas game code and utilisation is still not anywhere near 100% for prolonged periods it should still hit max clocks most the time meaning much higher performance than a fixed clock identical part would be overall.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

That's your take on it, that's also fine.

It's a more believable take than

"CEO of gaming company goes out on a limb against fanboys to defend his PR deal that he's getting regardless"

 

[Crimson_Fate]

This video was a waste, it explained variable on the CPU ( as most PC's implement it) it did not explain it in terms of the PS5 where it is driven by Power sharing with the GPU

 

[LucidFlux]

He was quite convinced the PS5 was considerably more powerful then it turned out to be.

I've had the running theory that a lot of the conflicting numbers came down to being informed guesses based purely on the relative performance between the two devkits and not from a spec sheet. The fact that we would hear one was more powerful than the other from different sources could point to specific game code being better suited for one console over the other. Such as how traditionally designed games and engine pipelines may favor the additional compute of XsX where as new streaming techniques such as with nanite in UE5 might favor the PS5 due to its superior I/O. Just a thought.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Ok if this is the theory let me give you a breakdown on how bad that sounds:

1 - UE5 get to beta/alpha ready to show something interesting to the public.
2- Tim realizes that Sony needs ?/want? they show that new engine on their console.
3- They do not speak, because as you are saying right now, you don't believe there was something signed up for, or they talk secretly and decides not doing something like they have done in the past or like MS and every other company does with 3rd party deals, that are clearly public, they go with the secret route.
4- Tim comes out with UE5 and claims he has years collaborating with Sony on this new tech.
5- Sony doesn't deny the claims.
6- Tim predicts that if he continues defending PS5 Sony will invest in their round so he keeps defending the console and talking about the things PS5 that a normal PC does not have.
7- Tim compromises the company saying on a Tweet that once the consoles are released all the code "as normally is for UE" will be open source and people will be able to see for themself what the create.
8- Sony sees all the Tim comments and thinks, yeah we should pay them for that.
9- Sony invests 250 million in Epic.

That's how it went for you right?

What no... I'm not saying Sony paid for that, lol. Sony paid 250mil because that's just a good business decision, and Epic will be worth more in 20 years.

I'm purely saying that Sweeney went hard with the free hype generation of the PS5 on Twitter and via media outlets because he knew Sony would invest. That's it. No secret deals, just Sweeney being a free marketer to sweeten the deal. Sony had nothing to do with this.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

What no... I'm not saying Sony paid for that, lol. Sony paid 250mil because that's just a good business decision, and Epic will be worth more in 20 years.

I'm purely saying that Sweeney went hard with the free hype generation of the PS5 on Twitter and via media outlets because he knew Sony would invest. That's it. No secret deals, just Sweeney being a free marketer to sweeten the deal. Sony had nothing to do with this.

Lmao how does getting into twitter fights "sweeten the deal"?

 

[jose4gg]

What no... I'm not saying Sony paid for that, lol. Sony paid 250mil because that's just a good business decision, and Epic will be worth more in 20 years.

I'm purely saying that Sweeney went hard with the free hype generation of the PS5 on Twitter and via media outlets because he knew Sony would invest. That's it. No secret deals, just Sweeney being a free marketer to sweeten the deal. Sony had nothing to do with this.

Ok, and while he was doing that, Did he lied?

 

[Crimson_Fate]

What no... I'm not saying Sony paid for that, lol. Sony paid 250mil because that's just a good business decision, and Epic will be worth more in 20 years.

I'm purely saying that Sweeney went hard with the free hype generation of the PS5 on Twitter and via media outlets because he knew Sony would invest. That's it. No secret deals, just Sweeney being a free marketer to sweeten the deal. Sony had nothing to do with this.

I think the reality of the situation is that there was/is not a device that Epic currently has access to with the type of I/O and streaming speed that the PS5 has. Of course he is going to hype something which has the fastest I/O around and can showcase their technology to the fullest. He is selling UE5 and wants people to use it. You always lead with your best foot....

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

but wondering if this had an impact on what sweeny was saying about ps5

No because the PS5 does have a god tier ssd and io that's far ahead of anyone else. The things he said were true. Other devs had said similar praise. If some people want to have a sigh of relief and say ahhh it was all just marketing to make them feel better then upto them, but it's just denying reality.

 

[Andodalf]

I think the reality of the situation is that there was/is not a device that Epic currently has access to with the type of I/O and streaming speed that the PS5 has. Of course he is going to hype something which has the fastest I/O around and can showcase their technology to the fullest. He is selling UE5 and wants people to use it. You always lead with your best foot....

If you lead with your best foot, you don’t Show 1440p dynamic at 30 FPS on next gen hardware

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

If you lead with your best foot, you don’t Show 1440p dynamic at 30 FPS on next gen hardware

People only cared about the resolution and framerate when they got told what it was lmao

 

[Three Jackdaws]

If you lead with your best foot, you don’t Show 1440p dynamic at 30 FPS on next gen hardware

yet it's still the most next-gen looking graphics we've seen so far, funny how that works.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

If you lead with your best foot, you don’t Show 1440p dynamic at 30 FPS on next gen hardware

If thats what it took to stream in 8k assets while in flight then yea you kinda do

 

[jose4gg]

If you lead with your best foot, you don’t Show 1440p dynamic at 30 FPS on next gen hardware

Show me something that looks better than that... on any machine...

 

[SSfox]

Current gen game:




Next gen game:

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

If you lead with your best foot, you don’t Show 1440p dynamic at 30 FPS on next gen hardware

It was movie quality 8k assets streamed in seamlessly. Clealry the scale of what was happening went above some peoples heads.

Go and see the video where on a top end pc with a 2080ti a dev loads 3 of the rocks into UE4 and the framrate tanks to 18fps or somewhere that low. Just shows how heavy those assets are and what the UE5 and PS5 were doing.

It was like a mega stress test and to be able to do that at 1440p locked 30 this early was mightly impressive and it also looked amazing.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

It was movie quality 8k assets streamed in seamlessly. Clealry the scale of what was happening went above some peoples heads.

Go and see the video where on a top end pc with a 2080ti a dev loads 3 of the rocks into UE4 and the framrate tanks to 18fps or somewhere that low. Just shows how heavy those assets are and what the UE5 and PS5 were doing.

It was like a mega stress test and to be able to do that at 1440p locked 30 this early was mightly impressive and it also looked amazing.

sorry replied to the wrong post.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Would have preferred the box itself in white as well, but ok.

Looks like the white/black/blue theme came to stay. Wonder how long it will take for an all-black themed console.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Current gen game:




Next gen game:

Do you know what system the AC game was captured on?

And man, I'm getting strong Witcher 3 vibes from it too. Colour palette is almost identical.

EDIT: sorry replied to the wrong post previously

 

[Sethbacca]

Current gen game:




Next gen game:

Ugh, I'm hoping that AC is just suffering from ridiculous compression. Hopefully the video feed coming at the Ubi event will be of suitable quality to make a determination.

 

[Andodalf]

If thats what it took to stream in 8k assets while in flight then yea you kinda do

Man, normally someone has to be paid 250$ Mil to say that!

 

[roops67]

Brad Sams. Google him. And your armchair expertise is better? Got it! And their are MS devs stating themselves the flaws in variable clocks. Perhaps your armchair dev expertise knows more than them also?

Yep googled him. He's a Xbox fan journalist. Really, this is it, this is your expert? Quoting your favourite term 'armchair dev' , yes I do believe we 'armchair devs' will be more expert on this subject than your 'biased journalist'!! And what else would we expect the MS devs to say, not surprising at all!

 

[Neo Blaster]

tower of power ... dear god, do they have teenagers coming up with these?

Looks like something out of Greebergs's mind.

 

[SSfox]

Do you know what system the AC game was captured on?

And man, I'm getting strong Witcher 3 vibes from it too. Colour palette is almost identical.

EDIT: sorry replied to the wrong post previously

I don't think there is a confirmation. My personal bet would be it's running on some PC equipped with SSD (considering those short loading time)

 

[Crimson_Fate]

Man, normally someone has to be paid 250$ Mil to say that!

No just the ability to look at things objectively with a pinch of common sense...

 

[Neo Blaster]

I really can't believe people keep forgetting this, but Series X CPU runs at 3.6 with SMT on and 3.8 with SMT off.

Does PS5 CPU run with SMT off? All I've heard is that it's 3.5GHz SMT.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

My Pro is loud and I live in Brazil, so I'm more fucked than Abby on that boat

You need to inject steroids and eat burritos, then we talk

 

[SatansReverence]

30 minutes, wow, what a champ...
The claim was that there's some magical hardware that somehow can run at max clocks all day everyday. No real world scenario requires a cpu or gpu to run at 100% utilization at full clock speed. It's the same as saying you've been riding you car for 5 minutes past the RPM red line. If you have a fast car and try to do it a few times, well let's say you'll need to Fred Flintstone back to the mechanic for a new engine

Silicone has a certain life expectancy. The only sort of scenario where you will run a gpu at max clocks is if you're crypto mining. And when you do so, you're basically running the fans at 100% non stop and you'll still burn out the card in a year's time.

You don't know much about cars

Just for you



Look at the FPS at the start of the test, mid point and towards the end.

"Start: circa 75 fps Mid: circa 71fps End: circa 60 fps"

Good day sir

dropped

That moment you're delusional enough to compare an air cooled system to a passively cooled one.

But yea, MiC DrOp.

 

[Neo Blaster]

If you lead with your best foot, you don’t Show 1440p dynamic at 30 FPS on next gen hardware

And that '1440p dynamic at 30fps' blew everyone away in such a way even DF couldn't count the pixels, so...