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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Blue Spring

Read my tears about xbox here --->
The issue going forward for next gen is 3rd party devs will have 2 options:

1. design an exclusive game around the PS5 I/O, but be unable to port it to Xbox/PC.
2. cut down the game design to work on Xbox/PC and go multi-platorm.

Most will pick the 2nd option. Only some true PS5 exclusives won't be held back.
PC is already getting in the position to have comparable/better performance to the PS5 in terms of I/O so that will be 2 plattforms vs Xbox which is the less popular plattfrom out of the 3.

Will third party devs take full advantage of the PS5 from day 1? No, cross-gen made that impossible anyway but I doubt that third party devs are not enticed by it when PC will also have the same capability one or two years from now.
 

Ptarmiganx2

Member
This dude is pure madness and stupidity beyong anything in galaxy.

He's insane...We don't even have the deep dive into the PS5 yet. From what we have seen, the XSX cannot keep up with the PS5. Show me something running on the XSX that looks like HZD2? The new excuse is Velocity Architecture is really difficult to program for (how is that ever going to be a good thing). Sony will own the graphics crown this gen as they do every gen.
 

cudiye

Member


Ayo been awhile, i thought ps5 might announce something today. Also, aiint this the same clown that stated that Ps5 preorders would go live.

Xbox S really gonna be gimping next generations multi platforms capabilities this generation for what? The cost of having a budget friendly console? Press F to pay respects.
 

kyliethicc

Member
PC is already getting in the position to have comparable/better performance to the PS5 in terms of I/O so that will be 2 plattforms vs Xbox which is the less popular plattfrom out of the 3.

Will third party devs take full advantage of the PS5 from day 1? No, cross-gen made that impossible anyway but I doubt that third party devs are not enticed by it when PC will also have the same capability one or two years from now.
No PC is not even close to the PS5 I/O. Most PCs use SATA SSDs at less than 1 GB/s. And lots of other PCs use HDDs.

The PC market will never be unified enough to require as minimum spec a PCIe Gen4x4 SSD at 5 or 6 GB/S raw read.

Until then, no PS5+PC (or +Xbox) game can actually take full advantage of the PS5 I/O.
 
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Dibils2k

Member
No. Hit save, boot new game. Go right into a multiplayer match or resume your singleplayer story right from the main home screen in 2 seconds. No need for wasting SSD space to save RAM caches.

Quick Resume is a useless feature that no one needs or will use. People don't switch games like they switch apps on their phones. And it wouldn't even work with multiplayer games. Good luck suspending an online game.

Last thing I'd ever want to do is start up Spider-Man, start swinging around, hit pause, then jump into God of War, start fighting, and as soon as I kill an enemy, hit suspend, jump into GT7 and start a race I suspended 5 minutes ago.

What a shit way to experience a singleplayer game.

"Quick Resume - play every* singleplayer game you own for 30 seconds each in under 10 minutes, only on Xbox"

"*not really every game, we only have so much room on our 500 GB SSD to reserve just for this 1 feature"
i mean they demo the feature that way, that wont be the use

use is you finished playing, turn off console (obvs the standby version) and next day when you go back to it its where you left off, no need to go through the developers/publisher logos lol and be able to do this with multiple games, is pretty good. i hope they have indicators when a game js gonna be kicked off quick resume

unless i understand it wrong and it only quick resumes if you havent turned off console

edit: just put this edit herr to not get bunch of repetitive replies, i am aware current gen consoles do 1 game suspend/resume, this is an extension of that with multiple games always ready in standby
 
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Blue Spring

Read my tears about xbox here --->
No PC is not even close to the PS5 I/O. Most PCs use SATA SSDs at less than 1 GB/s.
Right now, yes, but we will see more and more games with SSD requirements. Going by your logic PC would be the baseline for next gen but that was never truly the case. Baselines were always set by the consoles. My argument is that the PS5 will be that baseline.

I get where you are coming from but I disagree. I dont think devs are that stupid.
 
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kyliethicc

Member
i mean they demo the feature that way, that wont be the use

use is you finished playing, turn off console (obvs the standby version) and next day when you go back to it its where you left off, no need to go through the developers/publisher logos lol and be able to do this with multiple games, is pretty good. i hope they have indicators when a game js gonna be kicked off quick resume

unless i understand it wrong and it only quick resumes if you havent turned off console
I can do that right now on my PS4.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Right now, yes, but we will see more and more games with SSD requirements. Going by your logic PC would be the baseline for next gen but that was never truly the case. Baselines were always set by the consoles. My argument is that the PS5 will be that baseline.

I get where you are coming from but I disagree. I dont think devs are that stupid.
I think you're quite wrong then, but thats ok. Agree to disagree.
 

Dibils2k

Member
I can do that right now on my PS4.
not multiple games though

the point is if you are playing more than 1 game in a certain span of time you wont ever need to launch them (except when there is an update every week)

so you go from one standby game to another
 
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hemo memo

You can't die before your death
The issue going forward for next gen is 3rd party devs will have 2 options:

1. design an exclusive game around the PS5 I/O, but be unable to port it to Xbox/PC.
2. cut down the game design to work on Xbox/PC and go multi-platorm.

Most will pick the 2nd option. Only some true PS5 exclusives won't be held back.

True. That’s why there will be a big gap (probably the largest ever) design wise between exclusives first party games on PS5 and multi-platform games using PC HDD as a base. As Cerny have explained.
 

zaitsu

Banned
not multiple games though

the point is if you are playing more than 1 game in a certain span of time you wont ever need to launch them (except when there is an update every week)
The point is
This feature makes no sense.

On the other hand youre playing TLOU2 and your friend invite you to COD.
You hit accept and BAM! 2s and youre in the lobby playing with him.
Thats something that make sense.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
No PC is not even close to the PS5 I/O. Most PCs use SATA SSDs at less than 1 GB/s.
And the Nvidia solution(RTX IO + RTX 30 series GPU) that replicates the Xbox Series solutions is two cards living on the PCIe bus, one is referred to as a NIC (Network interface card), that is the RTX IO NIC which will have an NVME SSD drive on it, and the RTX 30 series GPU will also act as a NIC when communicating with the RTX IO card to retrieve game data from the SSD (instigated by the GPU driver running on the CPU)- prior to shader units decompressing into VRAM.

Just from my description you can see this is a far more complex and is external communication - meaning longer journeys/latency - than an IO complex living inside an APU - where it transfers direct from SRAM to the unified GDDR6 RAM.

The PS5 is still going to have at least 5 times less latency, but probably more like 20 times less.
 
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True. That’s why there will be a big gap (probably the largest ever) design wise between exclusives first party games on PS5 and multi-platform games using PC HDD as a base. As Cerny have explained.

Hopefully DirectStorage will make better use of the NVME's that are out there (even the Gen3 variants that are closer in speed to the XSX drive) and will move the baseline forward by a good step. I think at minimum support for spinners will be dropped, even if the bar is still lowered to support SATA SSD.
 
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Dibils2k

Member
The point is
This feature makes no sense.

On the other hand youre playing TLOU2 and your friend invite you to COD.
You hit accept and BAM! 2s and youre in the lobby playing with him.
Thats something that make sense.
thats literally the same thing so how does one make sense and anothrr doesnt? and plz dont expect all games to open in 2secs, if you think activision or epic (unreal engine) is gonna let you skip their logo animation think again lol
 
This is what I'm telling you, this basically makes the XSX a resolution box, because games are made to be 1440P in XSS and the only thing XSX can do now is going to 4K...

In the future PS5 can allow their first studios to go below 4K to 1800P or 1440P, but use that extra power in gameplay experience, AI, and any sort of calculation where the CPU can be limited (2-3 years ahead)...

You can't do that on XSX because going below 4K in XSX already puts XSS in a 900P scenario...
I think we are reaching FUD level when we make these suppositions
microsoft says one box is good for 4k, the other for 1440p. it seems to check out.

so, if a game somehow needs to be 1440p on the 4k machine, it will be 1080p on the 1440p one.
dont forget that both machines are sporting hardware assisted inference learning.

talking about supposedly games that will need to go down to 1080p for series x is a little far fetched.
but even IF it came down to that, if series x is 1080p, then series s being 900p will definitely NOT be a problem.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Right now, yes, but we will see more and more games with SSD requirements. Going by your logic PC would be the baseline for next gen but that was never truly the case. Baselines were always set by the consoles. My argument is that the PS5 will be that baseline.

I get where you are coming from but I disagree. I dont think devs are that stupid.
Keep dreaming the PC is going with the Microsoft model decompression with mostly software improvements to other areas of IO. So the series x will be the baseline with direct storage.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
Well, I have to say that I'm actually a little surprised we didn't get anything from Sony today. A Tuesday and right after MS drops the price bombs.....seems like a time you kind of almost HAVE to get at least one little punch out there in response. But....NOTHING.

Oh well. I mean...if it weren't for all of those public and quoted reassurances that it's launching this holiday season, I'd be starting to seriously doubt that it will be released. We'll see. I don't buy that shipping arrangement rumor. Funny how people act like Microsoft's systems aren't being built in the same places and would have the same transportation issues if that were the case. I don't believe it is, but something odd is definitely going on here. There's no other explanation for ALL of this weirdness and silence. SOMETHING is going on and they're just hoping to resolve it soon and before they actually announce anything else.
 
Dudes out here talking about prices and useless nonsense.Shit going to be affordable. If you cant afford it gaming should'nt be your priority.You got other problems

Im out here hoping for more games to be revealed. Dudes talking about another useless hardware sku with NO GAMES. Are you people gamers.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Well, I have to say that I'm actually a little surprised we didn't get anything from Sony today. A Tuesday and right after MS drops the price bombs.....seems like a time you kind of almost HAVE to get at least one little punch out there in response. But....NOTHING.

Oh well. I mean...if it weren't for all of those public and quoted reassurances that it's launching this holiday season, I'd be starting to seriously doubt that it will be released. We'll see. I don't buy that shipping arrangement rumor. Funny how people act like Microsoft's systems aren't being built in the same places and would have the same transportation issues if that were the case. I don't believe it is, but something odd is definitely going on here. There's no other explanation for ALL of this weirdness and silence. SOMETHING is going on and they're just hoping to resolve it soon and before they actually announce anything else.

Bleeding them out until they have nothing left to give.
 

Blue Spring

Read my tears about xbox here --->
Keep dreaming the PC is going with the Microsoft model decompression with mostly software improvements to other areas of IO. So the series x will be the baseline with direct storage.
The method might be inferior to the PS5 but the raw speed of the available SSDs on the PC will be higher. There is an SSD set to release that is reaching 7 GB/s later this year.

But if third party devs will really not take advantage of the PS5 I/O solution like many of you seem to think, then Cerny made some the wrong choices with the PS5.
 

kyliethicc

Member
And the Nvidia solution(RTX IO + RTX 30 series GPU) that replicates the Xbox Series solutions is two cards living on the PCIe bus, one is referred to as a NIC (Network interface card), that is the RTX IO NIC which will have an NVME SSD drive on it, and the RTX 30 series GPU will also act as a NIC when communicating with the RTX IO card to retrieve game data from the SSD (instigated the GPU driver running on the CPU)- prior to shader units decompressing into VRAM.

Just from my description you can see this is a far more complex and external(latency longer journeys) communication than an IO complex living inside an APU - where it transfers direct from SRAM to the unified GDDR6 RAM.

The PS5 is still going to have at least 5 times less latency, but probably more like 20 times less.
And all this would still assume a PC user has bought an M.2 NVM SSD thats PCIe Gen 4x4.

Notice Nvidia used 7 GB/s raw for their I/O chart? Thats the max it could be. Roughy 2x raw with RTX IO compression.

So even if a user has an RTX 3070, if they want PS5 I/O speeds, they will need an M.2 PCIe Gen4x4 drive thats at least 6 GB/s or more.

No PC game will ever have that as the min required spec. Just like they won't have the RTX 3060 as the min required GPU.
 



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GAME Spain:

Eha5AwqWsAA9tA2
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Bleeding them out until they have nothing left to give.
That is just sad the undefeated market leader has to resort to those tactics. That is why many of us miss Andrew House and his guys. He did not play shadow games against a incompetent opponent he was straight up and kicked ass. Sony should of had the guts to set the market price and say this is the PS5 it kicks ass buy it on this date at this price.
 
The method might be inferior to the PS5 but the raw speed of the available SSDs on the PC will be higher. There is an SSD set to release that is reaching 7 GB/s later this year.

But if third party devs will really not take advantage of the PS5 I/O solution like many of you seem to think, then Cerny made some the wrong choices with the PS5.
Part of the reason why Sony went with that I/O solution was because of this:
According to Kotaku's Jason Schreier (via Resetera), Sony has been designing the PS5 to appeal to gamers looking to play in shorter increments of time. "They want people to feel more inclined to play in short bursts rather than only wanting to turn on the console when they have a few hours to spare," Schreier wrote.

Likewise, it sounds like Sony was inspired by the way Netflix makes loading content consistently fast. "One of the pitches [Sony has] been making to developers is 'playing a PS5 game should be as easy as Netflix.' They want to make players feel like they can load up the game immediately and know exactly how much time a given activity is going to take them," said Schreier.
 

ethomaz

Banned
And all this would still assume a PC user has bought an M.2 NVM SSD thats PCIe Gen 4x4.

Notice Nvidia used 7 GB/s raw for their I/O chart? Thats the max it could be. Roughy 2x raw with RTX IO compression.

So even if a user has an RTX 3070, if they want PS5 I/O speeds, they will need an M.2 PCIe Gen4x4 drive thats at least 6 GB/s or more.

No PC game will ever have that as the min required spec. Just like they won't have the RTX 3060 as the min required GPU.
Just a correction.... they will have that as minimum specs in several years.
The minimum specs keep increase slowly every year.
 

Chromata

Member
The issue going forward for next gen is 3rd party devs will have 2 options:

1. design an exclusive game around the PS5 I/O, but be unable to port it to Xbox/PC.
2. cut down the game design to work on Xbox/PC and go multi-platorm.

Most will pick the 2nd option. Only some true PS5 exclusives won't be held back.

It'll probably turn out like this gen where Xbox constantly says the have the most powerful hardware, but PS5 will actually have the best looking games.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
And all this would still assume a PC user has bought an M.2 NVM SSD thats PCIe Gen 4x4.

Notice Nvidia used 7 GB/s raw for their I/O chart? Thats the max it could be. Roughy 2x raw with RTX IO compression.

So even if a user has an RTX 3070, if they want PS5 I/O speeds, they will need an M.2 PCIe Gen4x4 drive thats at least 6 GB/s or more.

No PC game will ever have that as the min required spec. Just like they won't have the RTX 3060 as the min required GPU.
I actually don't think that 7GB/s is even possible after researching PCIe efficiency and latency, they'll need more headroom on PCIe and be waiting for PCIe 5.0 or 6.0 bandwidth, and that still won't fix the latency issues completely, which seemingly increases on PCIe when you do large sustained transfers, rather than bursts AFAIK.
 
Propietary :pie_thinking:

yes, "proprietary" as like in "secret sauce"
but if its not rdna2 amd tech, then its not under amd NDA.
So why doesn't sony speak more about it?


I have to say that this guy is a true sony warrior, I remember him from attacking dust golem.

Here, not only he does not address the reasonable points about amd h/w made in the article, but he also gives advice on how to handle such information:


"Refocus those conversations by asking what games they’re playing/excited about"

Do not address the points, just refocus the conversation man!
:messenger_tears_of_joy:
Do you have spiderman? Do you? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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