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[VFXVeteran]

No PC is not even close to the PS5 I/O. Most PCs use SATA SSDs at less than 1 GB/s. And lots of other PCs use HDDs.

The PC market will never be unified enough to require as minimum spec a PCIe Gen4x4 SSD at 5 or 6 GB/S raw read.

Until then, no PS5+PC (or +Xbox) game can actually take full advantage of the PS5 I/O.

He was talking about RTX I/O. Not what the PC can do now without DirectStorage. You guys are really really hyping this SSD to abnormal levels of reliance on hardware performance. It's not going to increase your FPS. It's not going to allow the console to run at native 4k. It's not going to speed up ray-tracing. It won't make complex shaders run faster... etc.. etc..

 

[VFXVeteran]

And all this would still assume a PC user has bought an M.2 NVM SSD thats PCIe Gen 4x4.

Notice Nvidia used 7 GB/s raw for their I/O chart? Thats the max it could be. Roughy 2x raw with RTX IO compression.

So even if a user has an RTX 3070, if they want PS5 I/O speeds, they will need an M.2 PCIe Gen4x4 drive thats at least 6 GB/s or more.

No PC game will ever have that as the min required spec. Just like they won't have the RTX 3060 as the min required GPU.

RTX I/O works with Gen3 PCI-e. And every game that uses a PS5 SSD I/O isn't going to require every other platform to perform the same. You might as well make it an exclusive at that point.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

How’s everyone doing this morning?

Breathing fresh air.

Dude whatever you do get the Xpria 1 II no matter what it takes, sell off one of your prized camels or something (sorry @sircaw rubbing off on me) It will be worth it in your field of work!! The Xpria 10 II won't cut it

I know, man. It's either Xperia 1 II or 24mm f/1.4 G Master lens for a starter. It clashes with my next 5 lenses budget. $1200 is no joke.

 

[SportsFan581]

You are being very unreasonable now.
Unreal engine is work in progress, epic has clearly stated that they need to work and optimize until a steady 60fps is a given.
and most probably, by the time they have reached that target more optimizations will be done also. those UE5 engineers in china talked about that in detail.
plus, we already know that it is very scalable.
again, I see absolutely no problem there

That might be possible, though there could be some truth to MS being extremely careful with transistor counts. They reached their target without the tech in a fashion that supported their virtualization goals, probably no need to push further.

 

[HAL-01]

I have to say that this guy is a true sony warrior, I remember him from attacking dust golem.

Here, not only he does not address the reasonable points about amd h/w made in the article, but he also gives advice on how to handle such information:

The dude was literally the principal software engineer for the PS5.
He doesn't bother trying to refute dumb twitter arguments cause he of all people knows theyre complete hogwash

 

[PSX]

in this thread? only you

.

 

[kyliethicc]

He was talking about RTX I/O. Not what the PC can do now without DirectStorage. You guys are really really hyping this SSD to abnormal levels of reliance on hardware performance. It's not going to increase your FPS. It's not going to allow the console to run at native 4k. It's not going to speed up ray-tracing. It won't make complex shaders run faster... etc.. etc..

You play HZD on PC at 30 Hz and yet you talk about FPS lol good try troll

 

[VFXVeteran]

You play HZD on PC at 30 Hz and yet you talk about FPS lol good try troll

What does that have to do with the conversation at hand? Stop trying to deflect and address the comment. Or just agree and move on.

 

[Bojanglez]

actually there were graphs in articles showing that if xbox had used that technology, it could boast over 14tf.
jason ronald had said that they went for fixed clocks because a) their prformance target was reached and b) variable frequencies are not the best solution for devs.

about your second point, Richard Leadbetter in his ps5 deep dive had said that multiple devs he spoke to, they are using a profile with cpu frequencies way down in order to sustain the high gpu frequency. iirc, he commented that this is very ok for now, because games all are cross gen, but he wondered how this will pan out as we move on and more cpu power is needed as we break from jaguar ties, or something in this manner.

I remember Leadbetter being concerned by this. It would be interesting if he could cite the hardware and SDK revisions these devs were using, these comments may be redundant now. I'm sure these things happen in the early stages of new hardware, the good thing is we have begun to see PS5 hardware running actual games, and they look decent, so people shouldn't be too concerned.

I remember Cerny mentioning that they did have some preset profiles to help devs get up and running fast. I imagine in time these will become redundant once pipelines are optimised for the system. I think Cerny said in an interview that he expects both CPU and GPU to both run at max frequencies most of the time and that developers would have to go out of their way to write (basically malicious) code that was constantly using the maximum power budget for CPU and GPU on every frame. Real-life scenarios in games are very unlikely to be doing that.

 

[kyliethicc]

What does that have to do with the conversation at hand? Stop trying to deflect and address the comment. Or just agree and move on.

I don't agree or want to waste anymore time with you. You're grasping at straws.

"Wont raise FPS" is a useless sad way to try to downplay how fast/slow I/O affects game design.

Mark Cerny or random internet guy... who should I believe? I'll trust the word of the legendary game creator.

Have fun.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I don't agree or want to waste anymore time with you. You're grasping at straws. "Wont raise FPS" is a useless sad way to downplay how fast/slow I/O affects game design.

Jesus Cerny or random internet guy... who should I believe? I'll trust the word of the legendary game creator.

Have fun.

Wow. Hardcore Sony fan through and through. "It is whatever I say it is based on baby Jesus Cerny."

 

[PSX]

in this thread? only you

 

[Mr Moose]

Guys anyone start to get excited for the munchkin series S? I kinda like it more than the X lol

Which would you get though?
That shit is ugly, price is good, but god damn... At least you won't see it often sitting on a shelf under the TV. Kind of like the chopping board PS4 Slim/Pro.

 

[PSX]

Which would you get though?
That shit is ugly, price is good, but god damn... At least you won't see it often sitting on a shelf under the TV. Kind of like the chopping board PS4 Slim/Pro.

it is ugly i won't look at it, that's PS5 job

 

[OrionNebula]

Oh crap... if this asswipe is getting excited that’s bad news for me

Why is that?

 

[Thedtrain]

Wow. Hardcore Sony fan through and through. "It is whatever I say it is based on baby Jesus Cerny."

Why do you feel the urge to respond to every troll? I value the information you bring but just ignore people!!!

 

[VFXVeteran]

Why do you feel the urge to respond to every troll? I value the information you bring but just ignore people!!!

Can't help it man. It baffles me so much I just can't ignore it.

 

[Fordino]

I remember Leadbetter being concerned by this. It would be interesting if he could cite the hardware and SDK revisions these devs were using, these comments may be redundant now. I'm sure these things happen in the early stages of new hardware, the good thing is we have begun to see PS5 hardware running actual games, and they look decent, so people shouldn't be too concerned.

I remember Cerny mentioning that they did have some preset profiles to help devs get up and running fast. I imagine in time these will become redundant once pipelines are optimised for the system. I think Cerny said in an interview that he expects both CPU and GPU to both run at max frequencies most of the time and that developers would have to go out of their way to write (basically malicious) code that was constantly using the maximum power budget for CPU and GPU on every frame. Real-life scenarios in games are very unlikely to be doing that.

Yeah, the profiles are there to help optimisation during development.

Cerny:

Regarding locked profiles, we support those on our dev kits, it can be helpful not to have variable clocks when optimising. Released PS5 games always get boosted frequencies so that they can take advantage of the additional power

 

[kyliethicc]

Why do you feel the urge to respond to every troll? I value the information you bring but just ignore people!!!

He brings no information, he's never made a game. He's the same as us. He plays games.

And he's quite a troll himself.

He says "PS5's fast SSD won't change the game's FPS, so why care?" when we were talking about how it affects game design.
Its useless baiting from a guy who quite clearly like to troll the PS5.

He knows what hes doing. Its transparent.

 

[kyliethicc]

Wow. Hardcore Sony fan through and through. "It is whatever I say it is based on baby Jesus Cerny."

Way to edit my quote, liar. Good try.

 

[Thedtrain]

He brings no information, he's never made a game. He's the same as us. He plays games.

And he's quite a troll himself.

He says "PS5's fast SSD won't change the game's FPS, so why care?" when we were talking about how it affects game design.
Its useless baiting from a guy who quite clearly like to troll the PS5.

He knows what hes doing. Its transparent.

I agree with a lot of that, but he does sometimes point out technical things I never notice

you know his shtick, I know his shtick, just ignore and move on

 

[VFXVeteran]

He brings no information, he's never made a game. He's the same as us. He plays games.

I'm definitely not the same as you.

He says "PS5's fast SSD won't change the game's FPS, so why care?" when we were talking about how it affects game design.
Its useless baiting from a guy who quite clearly like to troll the PS5.

No PC is not even close to the PS5 I/O. Most PCs use SATA SSDs at less than 1 GB/s. And lots of other PCs use HDDs.

The PC market will never be unified enough to require as minimum spec a PCIe Gen4x4 SSD at 5 or 6 GB/S raw read.

Until then, no PS5+PC (or +Xbox) game can actually take full advantage of the PS5 I/O.

Those don't sound like "game design" comments.

And all this would still assume a PC user has bought an M.2 NVM SSD thats PCIe Gen 4x4.

Notice Nvidia used 7 GB/s raw for their I/O chart? Thats the max it could be. Roughy 2x raw with RTX IO compression.

So even if a user has an RTX 3070, if they want PS5 I/O speeds, they will need an M.2 PCIe Gen4x4 drive thats at least 6 GB/s or more.

What exactly are you trying to say here with regards to game design?

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I remember Leadbetter being concerned by this. It would be interesting if he could cite the hardware and SDK revisions these devs were using, these comments may be redundant now. I'm sure these things happen in the early stages of new hardware, the good thing is we have begun to see PS5 hardware running actual games, and they look decent, so people shouldn't be too concerned.

I remember Cerny mentioning that they did have some preset profiles to help devs get up and running fast. I imagine in time these will become redundant once pipelines are optimised for the system. I think Cerny said in an interview that he expects both CPU and GPU to both run at max frequencies most of the time and that developers would have to go out of their way to write (basically malicious) code that was constantly using the maximum power budget for CPU and GPU on every frame. Real-life scenarios in games are very unlikely to be doing that.

of course Leadbetter said all these after cerny's presentation, so its not like he didn't know what cerny said on the subject.
anyway, it won't be long now until all the mysteries start to unravel one by one.

 

[Moridianae]

I don't think either of them will leak anything PlayStation. I firmly believe the Xbox stuff was a planned leak. It was all too neat to me.

That being said, I do believe the positive reception, Microsoft now having significant cards on the table, and the overall discontent with Sony's silence having become more exacerbated in the last 24 hours will force Sony to react.

I think they'll do something tomorrow for the 25th. Yeah, it was VR week. But the game has now changed.

 

[Mr Moose]

I'm definitely not the same as you.





Those don't sound like "game design" comments.



What exactly are you trying to say here with regards to game design?

Devs speak: How PS5 console’s ultra-high speed SSD and Tempest 3D AudioTech engine will enhance the future of gaming

Devs share initial thoughts on two distinguishing PS5 console features.

blog.playstation.com

Are you guys talking about this crap?

 

[Randy Randerson]

He was talking about RTX I/O. Not what the PC can do now without DirectStorage. You guys are really really hyping this SSD to abnormal levels of reliance on hardware performance. It's not going to increase your FPS. It's not going to allow the console to run at native 4k. It's not going to speed up ray-tracing. It won't make complex shaders run faster... etc.. etc..

Well game design has been held back by needing to load off of spinning disks and not the lack of powerful CPUS and GPUs. I don’t think you can blame consumers for being excited to see what gaming experiences can be unlocked in the upcoming gen. When I watched the spiderman postmortem, it was eye opening just how much the hard drive speed limited everything from movement speed to texture/lighting quality.

Sure, the PS5’s I/O isn’t going to increase ray tracing and other visual effects, but it’s going to allow for movie-level assets and textures (see UE5 demo). I’m not a game developer but this gen must be really exciting for them.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I think they'll do something tomorrow for the 25th. Yeah, it was VR week. But the game has now changed.

I dont think it will be a reaction to this leak. Instead they already had plans to announce an event sometime soon. Tomorrow might be the day that they do it.

 

[Redlight]

The dude was literally the principal software engineer for the PS5.
He doesn't bother trying to refute dumb twitter arguments cause he of all people knows theyre complete hogwash

Corporate employees can't be warriors for the company that employs them?
I'll let Aaron Greenberg know.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I dont think it will be a reaction to this leak. Instead they already had plans to announce an event sometime soon. Tomorrow might be the day that they do it.

They wont react just because of this XSS.

This machine has been known about for a long time and the price was known to them for a good 5 months, this was no surprise to them.

I really don't think tomorrow is the day simply because they wont overshadow the CoD reveal and then streams after that.

Possibly on the 10th?

I hope I am wrong but I don't see us getting any info this week and that is 100% a guess on my part.

 

[Randy Randerson]

They wont react just because of this XSS.

This machine has been known about for a long time and the price was known to them for a good 5 months, this was no surprise to them.

I really don't think tomorrow is the day simply because they wont overshadow the CoD reveal and then streams after that.

Possibly on the 10th?

I hope I am wrong but I don't see us getting any info this week and that is 100% a guess on my part.

I’m excited for what Sony shows whenever the next event is. Definitely hoping for this week

 

[Moridianae]

Welp. Pack it up, fellas. Soony waited too long and got jumped generations, haha.

Onion is great.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Well game design has been held back by needing to load off of spinning disks and not the lack of powerful CPUS and GPUs. I don’t think you can blame consumers for being excited to see what gaming experiences can be unlocked in the upcoming gen. When I watched the spiderman postmortem, it was eye opening just how much the hard drive speed limited everything from movement speed to texture/lighting quality.

Sure, the PS5’s I/O isn’t going to increase ray tracing and other visual effects, but it’s going to allow for movie-level assets and textures (see UE5 demo). I’m not a game developer but this gen must be really exciting for them.

I've no problem with that. The problem I have is thinking that no other platform will get movie-level assets and textures simply because none of the alternate hardware platforms have EXACTLY the same I/O speed as the PS5. This isn't a do or die situation here. All these things will be brought to the other platforms as well. The overall I/O speed up is definitely a good thing. It just gets annoying when certain fans of a particular platform think theirs will be the only platform to partake of the goodness simply because other numbers don't match up. It's basically a transparent agenda behind it.

 

[Alex Scott]

He was talking about RTX I/O. Not what the PC can do now without DirectStorage. You guys are really really hyping this SSD to abnormal levels of reliance on hardware performance. It's not going to increase your FPS. It's not going to allow the console to run at native 4k. It's not going to speed up ray-tracing. It won't make complex shaders run faster... etc.. etc..

SSD is not there to increase resolution or fps. If Sony wanted to do that then they could have went with bigger CPU and GPU. PS5 I/O will allow developers to create games without limitation. They will be able to do crazy things with it. Also PS5 is using fixed function hardware for their I/O so developers will have easier time deal with it unlike RTX I/O which uses tensor cores (I think) which will require some work to match the I/O on the PS5.

 

[StarskySilverz]

Now if only there was a 1st party game to pair with all this hardware

 

[VFXVeteran]

SSD is not there to increase resolution or fps.

I know that. I said that because some act like the SSD I/O will do such things and no other platform will participate.

If Sony wanted to do that then they could have went with bigger CPU and GPU.

I personally would have wanted a better GPU as it's going to be the bottleneck with every generation.

PS5 I/O will allow developers to create games without limitation. They will be able to do crazy things with it.

Yes, I welcome that. And it's not just PS5 I/o. The XSX I/O will allow it too.

Also PS5 is using fixed function hardware for their I/O so developers will have easier time deal with it unlike RTX I/O which uses tensor cores which will require some work to match the I/O on the PS5.

RTX I/O has more than enough bandwidth to do the work (Having to rely on separate Tensor cores instead of SMUs). This is unlike the PS5's TMUs that do the work for ray-tracing. Which will bottleneck it's graphics pipeline.

 

[saintjules]

Not sure if posted.

 

[Mr Moose]

What the fuck is Monster Boy?
Also why only with HDMI 2.1? fps != Hz.

 

[Sinthor]

Welp. Pack it up, fellas. Soony waited too long and got jumped generations, haha.

Onion is great.

Wow. THAT is a great one! The Onion rocks! They really nail tech humor from time to time. Like the "Sony introduces new stupid piece of shit that doesn't fucking work" a few years ago. Just classic!

 

[Randy Randerson]

I've no problem with that. The problem I have is thinking that no other platform will get movie-level assets and textures simply because none of the alternate hardware platforms have EXACTLY the same I/O speed as the PS5. This isn't a do or die situation here. All these things will be brought to the other platforms as well. The overall I/O speed up is definitely a good thing. It just gets annoying when certain fans of a particular platform think theirs will be the only platform to partake of the goodness simply because other numbers don't match up. It's basically a transparent agenda behind it.

Of course it’s silly if anyone thinks it will be just the PS5 that will get an advantage from improved I/O throughput this gen. PC may be a year away but they will also see an I/O boost on the latest NVIDIA cards when the new API is available.

IMO, until we see the games, we’ll have no idea what any of this means and any arguments are theoretical.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Not sure if posted.

Better add that one to the list Digital Foundry.

 

[kyliethicc]

Wow. THAT is a great one! The Onion rocks! They really nail tech humor from time to time. Like the "Sony introduces new stupid piece of shit that doesn't fucking work" a few years ago. Just classic!

I hadn't seen that in years, thanks. Legendary video. I think they made that around the PS3. So fucking funny.

 

[saintjules]

What the fuck is Monster Boy?

 

[AveragePhoenix]

Could you guys stop fighting for a single day? No?

 

[Mahavastu]

I haven't seen any rumors of shortages from reputable sites. I have seen Bloomberg saying Sony is planning on selling 10 million PS5s by end of March. Thats 2.5 million MORE than PS4 sold. Not even close to short supply.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

No, the article you linked to says, that Sony wants to manufacture 10mio units until the end of December but might have troubles to ship some of these units to the customers because of Corona.

Ok, I don't know much about logistics, but for me it sounds not very logical, that a company like Sony is during a pandemic able to ship hundreds of different parts to some factories to manufacture millions of units and then is unable to ship / fly those devices to the customers. But what do I know compared to Bloomberg...

 

[MasterCornholio]

Could you guys stop fighting for a single day? No?

Are they derailing the thread again?

 

[Neo Blaster]

So don't expect PS5 to support cold storage for PS5 games at launch. Probably only PS4 games on HDDs.

And you say this based on what source?

 

[Neo Blaster]

With an I/O that's so fast does the PS5 even need a suspend resume feature with multiple games?

Well, I still want to resume the game exactly from the point I left it, not all saved games do that.

 

[kyliethicc]

And you say this based on what source?

I'm just pessimistic. No source. Sony have yet to confirm it and they often take a while after launch to implement some features. Hopefully its ready to go.

 

[Shmunter]

I've no problem with that. The problem I have is thinking that no other platform will get movie-level assets and textures simply because none of the alternate hardware platforms have EXACTLY the same I/O speed as the PS5. This isn't a do or die situation here. All these things will be brought to the other platforms as well. The overall I/O speed up is definitely a good thing. It just gets annoying when certain fans of a particular platform think theirs will be the only platform to partake of the goodness simply because other numbers don't match up. It's basically a transparent agenda behind it.

More TF is better then less TF. More I/O is better then less I/O. PS5 best in class I/O, admit to yourself and rest easy.

 

[XO_o]