Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
realtime on a single 1080ti, if I'm not mistaken.
484GB/s bandwidth 1080ti
448GB/s bandwidth ps5
As far as I can see that's within the realm of what next gen can achieve in its environments.
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Baldur's Gate 3: A Next-Gen Graphical Showcase
- Thread starter VFXVeteran
- Start date
- Analysis Review Hype
realtime on a single 1080ti, if I'm not mistaken.
484GB/s bandwidth 1080ti
448GB/s bandwidth ps5
As far as I can see that's within the realm of what next gen can achieve in its environments.
supernova8
Banned
If it takes playing the game or takes more than, say, 5 minutes of footage to show that it's next-gen then it probably isn't next-gen.
Size, scope, mechanics etc etc are completely outside of the boundaries of this thread. Dont forget the thread name is "Baldurs Gate 3 - a next-gen graphical showcase". I have every right to focus on the graphics and if you don't like it.. tough shit because it isn't going to change my comment or my opinion.
To be clear I watched the entirety of both clips that VFX linked and I still wasn't massively impressed. It's a nice looking game but to say it's next-gen is just... reaching.
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Krappadizzle
Member
supernova8
Banned
Maybe I've got this wrong but it sounds like you think you have the sole right to decide what looks next-gen and what doesn't (or how we're permitted to define next-gen). I don't need to know the technical terms for stuff to be able to make a judgement on whether I think it looks next-gen or not.
From my count, half or more of the people replying on this thread saying that it does not look next-gen. So, it's either some big conspiracy, we're all in a discord somewhere plotting how we're going to undermine your opinion, or It just doesn't look next-gen (but DOES look very nice for this genre of game).
If you really want me to nitpick then nitpick I shall on two main themes:
(1) The animations are not next-gen at all
- The movement animations for the characters all seem to be identical. You can tell when they run in a line and you stop, they all stop in exactly the same way. It's so lazy and there are plenty of existing games that at least give characters variety in movement animations.
- The facial animations are shit - particularly the mouth movement animations. This is not unique to BC3 but an example of genuinely good facial animation would be LA Noire. Granted it sometimes looked as though the faces in that game were covered in vaseline but the underlying tech...... we don't seem to have had that since but that would be "next-gen".
- The environments look nice but they are (from what you've shown) generally very static. No moving objects, not much in the way of NPCs walking about, no moving lighting.
- Considering this is essentially a corridor runner type game (again, from what you've shown) and there's not ability to climb a wall out of this tunnel, I'd have expected the game to look even better than this.
- Most of what you showed was caves so I'm willing to accept there are more densely populated areas in the game that I haven't seen.
Radical Dreamer
Member
I agree. I don't know why would I need to know technical stuff just to judge something if it looks good to my eyes or not. When I judge music I don't go through what went into production or instruments used. Why would it be any different with judging games like that?
borborygmus
Member
There's something very unimmersive about BG3. It fails to fool my brain and looks very uncanny. Some of the textures are too grainy, some look like they've been sharpened and then blurred, and some are kind of cartoony. I also find the level geometry unconvincing. I've been to places with rocks like that irl and this game doesn't convince my brain.
No matter how technically competent it is, the asset quality is very inconsistent and so is the art style and that affects the overall look. Demon's Souls tricks my brain more effectively when I look at it and gives me the instinct to look around. It engages my mind's eye. BG3 does not give me that feeling and makes me zone out. It's "eye oatmeal" to Demon's Souls' eye candy.
Life isn't fair. Effectiveness is what counts. There's no amount of techniques that will make BG3 look better than DS to me and I think it's largely due to the assets.
No matter how technically competent it is, the asset quality is very inconsistent and so is the art style and that affects the overall look. Demon's Souls tricks my brain more effectively when I look at it and gives me the instinct to look around. It engages my mind's eye. BG3 does not give me that feeling and makes me zone out. It's "eye oatmeal" to Demon's Souls' eye candy.
Life isn't fair. Effectiveness is what counts. There's no amount of techniques that will make BG3 look better than DS to me and I think it's largely due to the assets.
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TonyK
Member
It looks very good but it doesn't look next gen for me. I need to say that any game shown until now, including Demon's Souls or Ratchet, doesn't look Next gen to me.
For me, next gen means something not achievable in current gen. I usually use 2 examples: Gears of War in X360/PS3 era, and The Order in PS4 era. This game looks as a PS4 game with the benefits of PC, but, for example, doesn't look more advanced than Red Dead Redemption 2. So, if Red Dead can be done this generation and this game doesn't look more advanced, then it doesn't look "next" gen.
Said that, I will purchased it as soon at it will be published and I give a fuck if it's look next gen or not.
For me, next gen means something not achievable in current gen. I usually use 2 examples: Gears of War in X360/PS3 era, and The Order in PS4 era. This game looks as a PS4 game with the benefits of PC, but, for example, doesn't look more advanced than Red Dead Redemption 2. So, if Red Dead can be done this generation and this game doesn't look more advanced, then it doesn't look "next" gen.
Said that, I will purchased it as soon at it will be published and I give a fuck if it's look next gen or not.
DJT123
Member
It's a Hack and Slash ARPG in my book.
Denton
Member
5 years old Assassin's Creed Unity looks as good if not better than Demon Souls
You can do wonders when you prebake raytraced lightning into your textures and assets. Demon Souls has static time of day and weather, yes?
Stuart360
Member
I was literally just playing Untiy a couple of days ago, and the problem with it is that not all interiors look as good as that palace, which is why that guy is hanging around the palace the whole vid. And get up high, on a building etc, and the illusion fails a bit when you see how poor the draw distance is, and see all these buildings that are just boxes. Anything around the player looks great, but anything distant is starting to show its age.
There is a reason why Origins and Odyssey are way harder to run than Unity on PC now.
geary
Member
I think people forget what BG3 is at this moment. You pay for a preorder with the possibility to have a look on the development until this time and give feedback. It's not, at this moment, a full fledged product and comparing it with the games which will release in 1-2 months is a non-sense.
DJT123
Member
It's amazing what a big deal some Souls remake and "Ratchet & Clank" is to a certain group of gamers. The level of indifference some of us feel is similar to how they would feel if PC Gamers went into a "next-gen" thread about Demon Souls and posted pics of MSFS2020, with assorted "tHIs IS a rEaL nExT GEn gAmE gUYz" drive-by shitpostery to go with it.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
yuck
yea I'm going to side withOmega Supreme Holopsicon with this one. I'm still going to buy it, but this title simply doesn't hold a candle to what Bluepoint games is doing with Demon Souls remake.
The game doesn't look like that. But feel free to grab a screenshot from whatever place to justify your exclusive "wins" stance.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Yet you won't claim any game as next-gen? Or are you on team-exclusive too?
Denton
Member
"that guy" was me and I have other videos that show other places (and even this video goes beyond the palace). But you are wrong. That palace looks amazing, yes, because they recreated its assets, but all places in the game benefit from the incredible lightning - and lightning is also the thing that makes Demon Souls look as good as it does. The fact that this huge open city with hundreds of NPCs on screen made 5 years ago on DX11 has to rely on LoDding to actually run is not some revelatory observation. The comparison here is with Demon Souls, which is closed off linear staticly lit game with few NPCs displayed on screen at any given time...and they look comparable. Point stands.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
martino
Member
with a lod adjustment patch it would without exterior can make eyes bleed .
VFXVeteran
Banned
I'm perfectly fine with people saying it's not next-gen looking to them but that should be followed by the following:
1) Give a game they think is next-gen and point out why they THINK that game is and BG3 isn't.
2) NOT be on team Sony-exclusive - if all of the 50% naysayers in this thread are on team Sony-exclusve, then they don't count to your proposal that there are 50% of the people on this thread that think it's NOT next-gen.
Animation isn't the focus of this game. It's a CRPG for goodness sakes! That's like me saying Demon Souls isn't next-gen because it doesn't have dynamic time of day. It's silly. And better still, it has better animation than any other isometric top-down CRPG. Name a RPG game that has momentum when you click on a character to move somewhere and he runs and then stops with follow-through at the spot you pointed him to.
The environments are supposed to be static. Again, it's a CRPG and not an action game.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Because people can be fanboys and just walk around the threads claiming next gen on any game that justifies their platform of purchase (i.e. team Sony-exclusive). How is that any way to have an unbiased conversation about anything regarding looks. You come across as being a troll and derailing if I come into a thread of any game that's not a PC exclusive and claim "Nope, looks OK but it's not next-gen". Do you know how many games on the next-gen consoles I wanted to say that about? ALL of them. But I kept my tongue and respected people's opinion.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Fair enough. I respect that comment.
If people's expectations are beyond what we've already seen on the PC, then yea, there will be a LOT of disappointed people this generation.
VFXVeteran
Banned
To prove your point, most of the people in this thread that think it's not "next-gen" looking either:
a) Can't name a game that is and therefore imagining what they think next-gen is - (i.e. CGI yet again).
or
b) Are on team Sony-exclusive and will only value a game's looks that is only available for the PS5. We shouldn't be surprised by this coming from an entire generation of said people. Notice how Spiderman and HFW are excluded from that list since they found out those are cross-gen games. Purists at it's finest! DS will be immediately deprecated from the list when it's announced for the PC later on.
DJT123
Member
Hopefully they'll come to understand (GAF warriors aren't that insufferable in the first-place compared to other places TBF) that we're just looking for more nuanced discussion. We aren't in anyway trying to shade the idea of "next-gen" as they understand it & when we go in "their" threads we'll also try to be constructive.
supernova8
Banned
(1) Demon's Souls does look next-gen to me (just about but barely). I'd point to the overall presentation of the game. There's something about it. To be completely honest and open, I don't know what it is about that game but it shouts "next-gen". It might be the cohesiveness of the character, enemies and environments. It might just be that it looks that much better than the original and therefore my eyes are tricking me.
(2) I'm not on team Sony-exclusive. You may remember I put out an entire thread shitting on Sony. If I were a Sony fanboy I'd be the shittest fanboy. In fact I've even said over and over that practically everything Sony has shown doesn't really look next-gen either. Horizon Forbidden West looks great - I'd say borderline next-gen. Gran Turismo 7 doesn't look next-gen in the slightest in my eyes.
Let me just quote something you put in your OP:
You were the one who made comparisons to games outside of that genre so it makes no sense to suddenly limit the discussion to the CRPG genre now just to suit you. You never made any mention of the CRPG genre so perhaps that's why people (including me and rightfully) are comparing it to games outside the genre.
If we're talking exclusively about it having great (even next-gen) visuals for a game of this genre then yes I completely agree. It's way better looking than any other CRPG I've seen.
Hope this is a meaningful compromise? It's not like I'm trying to shit on this game. I even like the look of it and I may even buy it once I get around to buying a new GPU (probably RDNA2).
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Yea, that's an honest opinion and admitting you don't know what means that you are just drawn to that kind of look. Fair enough.
Good to hear but yea, HFW looks very similar to HZD.
I wasn't comparing genres because I think rendering quality can go across any genre. I wasn't focusing on "scope" or every intricate detail of a given game. Surely some games will animate better than others while some will have more destructible elements than others. I assume that people can make their own judgment call to separate out elements of different types of genres. I mainly focus on rendering above everything else. That includes shaders, PBR materials, lighting, FX and textures.
Fair enough!
Radical Dreamer
Member
Look I get what you are saying, but still though, to me next gen is about visible leap in overall presentation. I don't know about technical stuff besides jargon that is being thrown around here or from some youtube videos. And only game so far that managed to "wow" me was Demon's Souls, too. Yeah sure, plenty of games on pc technically look and will look better, but when it comes to being mainly console player, i haven't seen anything like it when it comes to atmosphere and "mood" of the enviroment. That's what to me is next-gen. Hopefuly you'll understand my position ;p
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
any word on them lowering the minimum specs? I heard it was a possibility after some updates/adjustments
DJT123
Member
Larian will definitely keep optimizing their engine/game. If your PC specs are lower than "their minimum" I bet it would still run the game well enough, also, depending on how you're trying to play it (1080,30 FPS, low)
sncvsrtoip
Member
good joke, clunky animation and characters model from ps3 era
GymWolf
Member
What ps3 games have you played with such detailed characters? not even gow3 or tlou have the same details.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Call me biased my friend but I am not convinced by that game.
Even if you are right and it uses great next gen features - its not doing it in a way to convince me in any way that this is "next-gen" stuff.
The character movements, while having a good variety, seem robotic, stiff and overall unnatural.
Facial expressions don't convince me at all.
The worlddesign seems to have good ambitions to create wonderful scenerys doesn't work because the geometry and meshes are clearly distinguisable, you can clearly see how they have been glued together from "setpieces". Charactermodels - while detailed and with high textures seem out of place and don't blend into the environment good enough. ( Probably by design so you'll have a better overview in combat )
Btw - I love Larians crpgs played BG 1 and 2 back in the days and recently played Divinty Originals Sins 1,2 and Pillars of eternity, so its not because I don't like the genre per se.
I do also want to point out that it does look really good for a cRPG ( but so did D:OS2 )
TLDR: Next Gen features used but the game still lacks in overall asthetics and compositions. Therefore it's less convincing as a next gen title then R&C or Demons Souls 2 for me.
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RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Senua
Member
Looks nicer than any Valhalla footage I've seen thus far
GymWolf
Member
Some people were not that impressed by horizon 2 and wanted to see pure gameplay for a more accurate analysis tho.
Thugnificient
Banned
I was one of them. I said they were cutscenes and they were. They didn’t look "a generation" ahead of the first game but we had a bunch of people acting like this was some unrivaled new benchmark of game visuals.
Sure, the cutscenes in HZD look appreciably close to gameplay but it’s still not 1:1.
The game frankly never blew me away and I firmly believe if it wasn’t an exclusive, the reaction would have been vastly different.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
ain't that the truth... i pretty much avoided it when it came out cause it ran like shit apparentely, but i seen it runnin on the next xbax at a flawless 4k/60 so it'd be worth a cheap punt
DJT123
Member
An excellent dissection of the game from a completely different perspective (at least until I discovered more about your gaming background.) Thumbs up.
sncvsrtoip
Member
lou1
Mister Wolf
Member
Great point about them now excluding Miles Morales.
Muddy
Member
I have played games on the PS3 and X360 which don't have the janky animations I'm seeing in this game.
GymWolf
Member
Maybe the remaster on ps4 that use the cutscene characters in game, surely not the ps3 version.
I played both version and yes joel looks great but ellie and every other secondary character looks worse than what you can create on bg3.
Also tlou is a story driven game with a couple of main characters from arguably the most talented devs in terms of characters models, bg3 is a massive isometric crpg with a lot of characters, the fact that they are comparable is nothing short of amazing.
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GymWolf
Member
New footage of valhalla is pretty nice but the last 3 Ac games really shine more in outdoors environment compared to indoors stuff.
Origins has some breathtaking vistas.
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GymWolf
Member
Tbh half of the forum was never on the morales looks nextgen bandwagon, same for ratchet.
sncvsrtoip
Member
To be fair, even tough animation looks clunky and character models are quite mediocre comparing to some current gen aaa titles I'm not saying bg3 looks bad especially for rpg but creating topic about it nextgen graphics is hilarious for me