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[alucard0712_rus]

animation is motion has nothing to do with detail of a animated object, our definition of visuals might be different i consider terms like "looks", "visuals", "details" an actual change increase/decrease of fidelity of an object/scenery in motion or not.

no. imagine fast-paced scene. you WILL lose the details if frame-rate is insufficient to represent a motion in this scene. it's called temporal resolution. that's why slow-mo videos is so amazing. you lose spacial resolution in favor of temporal. those are interconnected.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

OP: Water is wet

 

[Hugare]

It probably will be, OP

Series S will hold back multiplatform / MS first party releases, so the best looking game will probably be a Sony first part title

And Sony have been offering a 60 fps option, even in PS5 exclusives. So its not like its due to the "cross gen" phase.

 

[winjer]

If you care only about max details, then we can consider that 30 fps will provide the best image quality.
But we might use the same argument to run a game at 1 fps, as you can put even more detail and higher resolutions.

But in games, it's not just about one single frame. This is not painting or photography.
It has movement. Because of that a game will look better and play much better with 60 fps or more.
The smoothness of movement, animations, physics, etc, is very important to convey immersion.

If you only want to post screenshots, 30 fps or lower is OK.
But for playing games, 60 fps is the bare minimum.

 

[AJUMP23]

I want 60 frames per half second.

with every oscillation of a cesium atom I need 120 frames.

 

[Rippa]

It doesn't surprise me a 30fps fan uses eye bleeding green text.

The font color has its intended purposes

 

[Captain Toad]

I think developers are realizing they can add a "Graphics Mode" at 30 FPS and a performance mode at 60. Pretty much everyone should choose the 60 FPS mode, but they can use screenshots of the 30 FPS mode for still shots for advertising purposes and can still truthfully say "actual in-game footage".

 

[StateofMajora]

I think developers are realizing they can add a "Graphics Mode" at 30 FPS and a performance mode at 60. Pretty much everyone should choose the 60 FPS mode, but they can use screenshots of the 30 FPS mode for still shots for advertising purposes and can still truthfully say "actual in-game footage".

Yeah, I really don't see 60fps modes not being a thing at least 90 percent of the time.

Unless : A. Dev wants 30 because of insane physics that can't be done at 60 or B. Super duper ray tracing is integral to the atmosphere or some such and 60fps compromises that.

Tbh I would love a Hulk game with crazy as possible physics at 30fps ; with good motion blur it could still look fluid enough. But if they could do crazy physics at 60 of course I want that.

 

[It's all in the wrist]

Well, no shit. We already have that by default with "fidelity mode" or "resolution mode."

It won't be the best playing, though. I'm sure it'll look lovely in stills.

 

[StateofMajora]

Honestly, Insomniac's 40fps/120hz mode is probably the ideal compromise if you want to pump the maximum amount of visual data whilst maintaining a smooth framerate. Targeting that also yields a solid 30 on 60hz displays.

Keep forgetting about this. I think 40fps should be the new minimum and like you said ; if it's a solid 40fps then 30fps is already there, no more effort required beyond getting the frame pacing right.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

animation is motion has nothing to do with detail of a animated object, our definition of visuals might be different i consider terms like "looks", "visuals", "details" an actual change increase/decrease of fidelity of an object/scenery in motion or not.

This is nonsense, animation complexity/creativity is a real thing and good complex/creative animations at a higher framerate have a very tangible impact on "graphical fidelity".

 

[Kabelly]

I nominate RDR2 for being one of the most beautiful games with the worst third person character controls I have ever played in a modern game.

 

[ZywyPL]

animations don't have details.

Let's put it this way - TLoU2 would'l look so good if it had Bethesda's animations.

 

[M1chl]

i don't see any difference in visual quality even at double FPS while it's clearly smoother.
p.s animations has nothing to do with visuals.

Case in point is games with Motion blur (more samples over /s), with TAA picture is much more "stable" and so on. Some techniques depends on number of previous frames and these techniques gets better with framerate.

 

[Darius87]

Let's put it this way - TLoU2 would'l look so good if it had Bethesda's animations.

animations won't look that good but visuals will look the same.

 

[Hendrick's]

Stop ruining gaming.

 

[cireza]

so higher FPS automatically increases resolution, texture details, lightning etc.?

Framerate actually helps you to see things, thus making them more beautiful.

Imagine you are watching porn, but it runs at 5 fps. You won't be able to fully appreciate it, even if its 4K. Now, think for a second : if it runs at 60fps, or even 120fps. You can be sure that it will look much better. This works with games as well.

Does not apply if you play screenshots, obviously.

 

[Croatoan]

The best looking game this gen CAN be 60fps if it has a pc version as PCs can brute force 60fps/max gfx/ect.

 

[MikeM]

We have never had a generation of 120 fps games on console until now. With this alone, I see no reason why 60 fps could not be the standard, or at least an option, on most games.

 

[Whitecrow]

This is nonsense, animation complexity/creativity is a real thing and good complex/creative animations at a higher framerate have a very tangible impact on "graphical fidelity".

No. Motion clarity is not image quality.

Did you really got to the point of totally disregard the image quality of a single frame in the stupid pursue of selfconvincing yourselves that 30fps is unplayable?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

No. Motion clarity is not image quality.

I don't think anyone said this, I know I didn't, unless you believe graphical fidelity means "image quality"; framerate is a core part of graphical fidelity.

Did you really got to the point of totally disregard the image quality of a single frame in the stupid pursue of selfconvincing yourselves that 30fps is unplayable?

I also never said this, stop making stupid assumptions.

 

[T0minator]

I think developers are realizing they can add a "Graphics Mode" at 30 FPS and a performance mode at 60. Pretty much everyone should choose the 60 FPS mode, but they can use screenshots of the 30 FPS mode for still shots for advertising purposes and can still truthfully say "actual in-game footage".

That's true in advertising or promoting the game they want to show off the game when it's most impressive.
Years from now when a dev team pushes the series x and PS5 hardware with insane physics, lighting, detailed character models not seen yet in today's games...it will hurt the frame-rate. Putting a 30fps lock will help them show more details within their games.

I'm not a fan of 30fps but I know that's when we can see these consoles getting pushed the hardest. PS5 pro will help with that problem though

 

[LordBlodgett]

While I agree that the games which win the screenshot awards for best looking will probably do so in their 30 FPS modes, there is a huge difference between these consoles CPUs and almost any previous console CPU. These CPUs are the closest consoles have ever gotten to PC parity at launch. PS4 and Xbox One consoles were severely hamstrung by their shit CPUs, and even though the Pro and X versions could pump images out at 4k (or 1440 upscaled) the CPU's were the main reason games stuck to 30 FPS. I expect almost all games this gen to continue to have a 60 FPS option, and that will continue to be the version I choose for actually playing the game (Vs showing off graphics).

 

[HTK]

Games are an interactive medium therefore gameplay and responsiveness is at the very top of importance.

Now there might be games at 30FPS that will obviously look better, but as more folks are experiencing 60FPS for the first time, I don't think they will be as willing to trade that in for slightly better visuals. We're already kind of seeing that with people preferring performance mode over quality mode.

I've played Warzone at 120FPS and Vanguard, going back to 60fps is rough for me. The difference between 30 and 60 is even more apparent than that. So far devs have done a great job optimizing the 60 fps experience with not loosing too much visual quality.

 

[Represent.]

You are wrong. The best looking games when actually played, in motion, will be 60fps.

How on Earth is he wrong? Its a fact that 30FPS looks better than 60FPS.

Yall are actually insane.

 

[Represent.]

Theres not a single game in history that looks better in 60FPS than it does in 30FPS. Its impossible, and thats objective.

Ratchet, one of the best looking games ever, looks magnitudes better in 30FPS fidelity mode than it does in 60FPS performance.

Its literally the WHOLE POINT of 30FPS. Im shocked theres any rebuttal on this lmao

 

[Bulletbrain]

Theres not a single game in history that looks better in 60FPS than it does in 30FPS. Its impossible, and thats objective.

Ratchet, one of the best looking games ever, looks magnitudes better in 30FPS fidelity mode than it does in 60FPS performance.

Its literally the WHOLE POINT of 30FPS. Im shocked theres any rebuttal on this lmao

Please looks up the word objective lol.

The whole point of the argument is that some people think higher resolution and settings at 30fps makes a better looking game. In contrast, others (like me) think a game at 60fps, and the resulting motion smoothness and clarity trumps a little bit higher resolution and settings any day.

Plus, games are an interactive medium. You can argue which mode is the best looking, but higher framerate ALWAYS helps gameplay. This can objectively be measured by testing reaction times, accuracy etc.

 

[Calverz]

I don't see this current generation being any different than the most graphically impressive and demanding games from the previous consoles:

RDR 2
The Last of Us Part 2
Batman: Arkham Knight
Uncharted 4
Horizon: Zero Dawn

Just to name a few, all run at 30fps normally because they pushed their hardware.

This generation,so far, we're getting great 60fps or more with 4k ...but in about 3 years can we expect 30fps to rear it's head and make a come back with super high detailed character models, incredible lighting and effects. I guess that's when the Pro and the Series X-treme will release.


Will this generations best looking games... the truly next gen games... be 30fps just like every other generation?

You missed gears 5 from that list.

 

[Rykan]

A lot of people have been trained for a decade to "like" 30 fps. Give them some time to join us in sanity.

We're done waiting. A console should immidiately activate parental controls as soon as fidelity mode has been selected. they're locked out of the system until an adult comes in and slaps some sense into them.

 

[rofif]

It's already 60 FPS.

40. Performance mode looks blurry

 

[Andodalf]

Games look better in 60 FPS, animation smoothness is huge for overall presentation.

 

[nani17]

Well as a pc gamer mainly

Once you go 60 FPS and more I don't want to go back. Its like 60hz to 144hz or above. Once you've experienced it you just can't go back because it makes everything better

 

[Kamina]

If the last generations taught us anything it is that the games get better later in the gen.
And since the CPU is potent i am sure they will be able to keep offering a performance mode while also improving the graphics.

 

[Represent.]

Please looks up the word objective lol.

The whole point of the argument is that some people think higher resolution and settings at 30fps makes a better looking game. In contrast, others (like me) think a game at 60fps, and the resulting motion smoothness and clarity trumps a little bit higher resolution and settings any day.

Plus, games are an interactive medium. You can argue which mode is the best looking, but higher framerate ALWAYS helps gameplay. This can objectively be measured by testing reaction times, accuracy etc.

Nah. It is objective. 30fps comes with higher resolution, which automatically makes everything look sharper and clearer. Therefore better. Not to mention Ray Tracing, added effects, just overall fidelity. It is objective and non debatable.

Smoothness only affects GAMEPLAY, not actual visuals. 60fps games do not look better. They have lower resolution, less effects, lower overall fidelity. Always.

 

[DispatchNinja]

Nah. It is objective. 30fps comes with higher resolution, which automatically makes everything look sharper and clearer. Therefore better. Not to mention Ray Tracing, added effects, just overall fidelity. It is objective and non debatable.

Smoothness only affects GAMEPLAY, not actual visuals. 60fps games do not look better. They have lower resolution, less effects, lower overall fidelity. Always.

Ya side by side without moving the camera. Then you start playing and 30 feels and looks like a sluggish mess compared to 60. Give me 60 any day over that.

And op those same games will more often than not offer performance modes, which I will always pick over a 30 fps mode. The image quality isn’t that much greater, and looks like shit in motion compared to 60. I’m never buying a game that doesn’t offer 60 fps again tbh.

 

[Fuz]

So they won't be the best looking games.

 

[Fuz]

Nah. It is objective. 30fps comes with higher resolution, which automatically makes everything look sharper and clearer. Therefore better. Not to mention Ray Tracing, added effects, just overall fidelity. It is objective and non debatable.

Smoothness only affects GAMEPLAY, not actual visuals. 60fps games do not look better. They have lower resolution, less effects, lower overall fidelity. Always.

This is one of the stupidest opinions I've ever read here on GAF since the diaspora.

 

[Old_and_Slow]

Why not both? Guess we still can't get our console max res and 60fps at the same time.

With that kind of choice I want the better frame rate. Going back to 30fps after some time in 60fps gives my eyes that sandpaper feeling. I can get used to the slower rate, sure, but going back to a 60fps game always feels better to play. Glad that 60fps mode is a thing and hope it becomes standard, not just an option.

 

[Represent.]

This is one of the stupidest opinions I've ever read here on GAF since the diaspora.

You're retarded if you think 60 fps allows for better fidelity. And also wrong. Worse visuals is literally the whole sacrifice they make to allow for more frames..

 

[Kuranghi]

People don't know what fidelity or IQ means do they

I really hope so because I want to see better physics.

 

[Jigsaah]

I don't see this current generation being any different than the most graphically impressive and demanding games from the previous consoles:

RDR 2
The Last of Us Part 2
Batman: Arkham Knight
Uncharted 4
Horizon: Zero Dawn

Just to name a few, all run at 30fps normally because they pushed their hardware.

This generation,so far, we're getting great 60fps or more with 4k ...but in about 3 years can we expect 30fps to rear it's head and make a come back with super high detailed character models, incredible lighting and effects. I guess that's when the Pro and the Series X-treme will release.


Will this generations best looking games... the truly next gen games... be 30fps just like every other generation?

I disagree.

The best games will be designed with 60fps as a requirement. The quality of a game is going to bank on the framerate, at least partially.

With both consoles rocking the equivalent of around 2070 Super's for their GPU's there is no reason what you're predicting should actually come to pass.

If anything, the game's scope or graphics will be dialed back to meet the 60fps requirement. Not the other way around. Anything less than 60 fps will be laughed off the stage.

 

[Belthazar]

I guess the best looking games (in ter of fidelity) will have an option for 60fps, but it will run at 1080p or lower (even on X/PS5).

But it think maybe someone like Naughty Dog can chose to go bonkers with asset quality, lighting, density, etc. and just go for dynamic 4k at 30fps... And the general audience will eat it all up.

 

[Blendernaut]

Who cares? Being a "best looking game" is temporary title and noone will care about it few months later because more impressive will come.

But gameplay is a king a gameplay is better at 60.

I don't care if devs want to showcase technical side of their games, but today is unexcusable to have a game without 60FPS mode. Maybe for slow pacing game like The Medium but that's only exception.

I think there are many people (me included) who prefer better graphics than 60 fps. And I usually play at 60fps, as I have a good PC. And I also work creating Unreal Engine scenes so I am not simply a person who doesn't know what I am talking about. I know how better 60fps feels compared to 30fps. But, still, I prefer better graphics. I just think the games feel more inmersive that way. And devs know that. That's why I agree with the OP on this one.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Graphically impressive and 30fps doesn't match...

 

[j0hnnix]

I'd honestly settle for a good balance but ultimately will fall on 60fps , switching back to 30fps is pretty harsh. I don't see how non fluid game should be considered graphically impressive. I'd want motion and fidelity to go hand and hand.

 

[Guilty of Being]

I'm in an odd camp where resolution is what matters for me; I need that post-1080p.

 

[Godot25]

But, still, I prefer better graphics. I just think the games feel more inmersive that way. And devs know that. That's why I agree with the OP on this one.

I know there are some people who prefer 30FPS even if that sound insane with all that "cinematic" crap. But the fact is, majority of games last gen were 30FPS because of crap CPU in Xbox One/PS4 which basically forbid 60FPS outside certain genre of games. And when Xbox One X and PS4 Pro arrived they just bumped games into 60 because of higher clocks and more GPU overhead.

So it wasn't "we think 30FPS is better and players know it." It was "30FPS is there because consoles are crap."

But now there is literally no reason for devs to not include some kind of performance mode. Let people choose. I refuse to play any game even mindblowing which won't have 60FPS mode. Only exceptions are games like Medium or Microsoft Flight Sim because that games are not dependent on framerate as much as action adventure/FPS/RPG etc.

 

[WitchHunter]

I refuse to play any game even mindblowing which won't have 60FPS mode.

Onset of hysteria.

 

[Godot25]

Onset of hysteria.

Why would I play a game, that feels bad when playing? Why would I treat myself worse, when I can treat myself better? It's not like there is nothing to play at any given moment. If devs won't bother having 60FPS mode in their game, I will play something else.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Its a fact that 30FPS looks better than 60FPS.

...until you try to manipluate the camera, move on screen elements or...ya know...try to play the game...at which point what was a beautiful still shot turns into what is quite clearly a series of beautiful stills, instead of nice fluid motion.