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Microsoft told digital foundry that the Series X is their mid-gen refresh (DF direct Weekly #116)
Crispy Gamer
Member
Sony's first party has delivered in that regard imo and the games that currently have an unlocked VRR mode would most likely run at a locked 120hz that alone is worth it for me not to mention the future current gen games running and looking a lot better
but people like you who don't want it will have a choice not to buy it Sony has shown with PS4 pro that they'll continue to treat the base console like a first class citizen
Zathalus
Member
Not everyone wants to game on PC. Some just prefer the nature of consoles.
But if you are a PC gamer then the Xbox is kind of pointless.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
How CONFUSED and out of touch is Microsoft gaming division?
It's one negative after another to where I feel like MS is purposely trying to push people away from Series X onto the PC.
-Halo Infinite mismanagement.
-forcing Cross Play in first party games like Halo
-Redfall 30 fps...still no 60 fps
-Starfield 30 fps while insulting our intelligence as to the real reasons we can't have a performance mode.
-favoring Series S to where the reason Starfield might not have a performance mode is possibly due to "parity" where Series S "has" to have the same modes as SX (if true would be a slap in the face to SX owners)
Are there any Series X owners who are truly happy with the way this system is being handles? I can't imagine it but then again I see how many people have accepted things like Starfield not having a 60 fps option and who so easily have bought into the party line BS from the likes of DF and other outlets and I think I sadly know the answer.
It's one negative after another to where I feel like MS is purposely trying to push people away from Series X onto the PC.
-Halo Infinite mismanagement.
-forcing Cross Play in first party games like Halo
-Redfall 30 fps...still no 60 fps
-Starfield 30 fps while insulting our intelligence as to the real reasons we can't have a performance mode.
-favoring Series S to where the reason Starfield might not have a performance mode is possibly due to "parity" where Series S "has" to have the same modes as SX (if true would be a slap in the face to SX owners)
Are there any Series X owners who are truly happy with the way this system is being handles? I can't imagine it but then again I see how many people have accepted things like Starfield not having a 60 fps option and who so easily have bought into the party line BS from the likes of DF and other outlets and I think I sadly know the answer.
In Cold Blood
Banned
Sometimes I wish that Xbox takes a leaf out of Sony's book and doesn't answer anyone's questions ever.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
We need mid gen refreshes already so this is more bad news.
60 fps should be standard and these consoles already are failing in that. Look at FF16. Both FF16 and Starfield are major exclusives with access to the full resources of both multi billion dollar companies and they can't do 60.
We need to fight for 60 fps or devs will pull what Bethesda is doing going forward. I'm NOT saying we shouldn't have 30 fps too just that a performance mode needs to be included.
To handle 60 fps in next gen games we already need faster CPU'S. MID GEN is a necessity.
60 fps should be standard and these consoles already are failing in that. Look at FF16. Both FF16 and Starfield are major exclusives with access to the full resources of both multi billion dollar companies and they can't do 60.
We need to fight for 60 fps or devs will pull what Bethesda is doing going forward. I'm NOT saying we shouldn't have 30 fps too just that a performance mode needs to be included.
To handle 60 fps in next gen games we already need faster CPU'S. MID GEN is a necessity.
Topher
Identifies as young
Bernardougf
Member
This time will come ... I really hope so
diffusionx
Gold Member
Sure, but if all you care about is graphics power, then console is not your platform.
Topher
Identifies as young
Pretty much. Microsoft talks too much. Sony, not enough.
Unknown?
Member
So when the PS5 Pro comes out they'll have a Series S Pro Pro?
Zathalus
Member
So did the guys at DF kill your cat or something? Seems rather personal over mere video games analysis.The face on Dickbeaterwhen John goes off script...
But probably in reality he is just nervous to see will this doofus deliver the marketing message coming from Greenburger without realizing how idiotic things he is made to say.
Good work @demigod or who ever wants to take credit of running dark10x out of here...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Why do you pretend to play stupid?
We really ran the entire gauntlet here. DF, Starfield, cerney, 9.2tf, 60 FPS.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I wish I was an insider. You'd be the first to know
C'mon man. Look at the posts in this thread, if started with an off hand comment made to DF and look at where we're at.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Hold on.. there were actually people in 2020 on this forum that referred to the XSX as their midgen refresh or as something that negated the need for one?
Can you please point them out?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Come on man, you know damned well all of that has happened. Especially the copium from those who would throw shade if it were the other way in a first party title. I'm okay with their choice, but it's laughable how the narratives flip on a dime, "for the brand." And this happens with all fan groups.
TheRedRiders
Member
I would be curious to see how quickly DF’s narrative shifts once they realise a Xbox Pro is happening, may even get special treatment from Microsoft like they did last time.
Good old Richard “teraflop differential” Leadbetter.
Good old Richard “teraflop differential” Leadbetter.
Loxus
Member
I think Microsoft anticipated the PS5 to sit between the Series S and X in performance at around 8-9TF, which is why they said they'd not be beaten at price and performance.
The Series X being their mid-gen refresh kind of makes sense based on their naming scheme.
Xbox One S = Xbox Series S
Xbox One X = Xbox Series X
Sony on the other hand probably wanted one efficient console that would last 7 years better than their previous generations and without the need for a pro console.
The XBSX and PS5 are much more powerful consoles than the previous gen, devs just need to optimize.
If I was Microsoft and Sony, I'd release slightly weaker devs kits for the next gen consoles, so the retail consoles get some breathing room for stable frame rate.
The Series X being their mid-gen refresh kind of makes sense based on their naming scheme.
Xbox One S = Xbox Series S
Xbox One X = Xbox Series X
Sony on the other hand probably wanted one efficient console that would last 7 years better than their previous generations and without the need for a pro console.
The XBSX and PS5 are much more powerful consoles than the previous gen, devs just need to optimize.
If I was Microsoft and Sony, I'd release slightly weaker devs kits for the next gen consoles, so the retail consoles get some breathing room for stable frame rate.
MarkMe2525
Banned
It's tough when the statements made before launch, to describe the intent of the consoles, get recontextualized 2 years later to fit a new narrative. That being, MS's place in a console market where they will potentially be completely outgunned performance wise.
I know Phil just was asked about this, and he avoided a definitive answer to a Pro machine (I don't believe him saying "not right now" is very definitive).The statement John is paraphrasing was originally made in the context of a global chip shortage. We can only speculate if the situation has now changed.
Gobjuduck
Banned
I was talking about how fanboys took that phrase. Xbox got a ton of crap from sony fans for not "believing in generations" like sony, because xbox was early saying their first party games would be cross gen. I was mainly talking about the fandoms emphasis on "believing in generations", after that statement. Now its shifted to the series s ruining the generation.
Dont act like that didnt happen dude.
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Knightime_X
Member
Didn't sx use xb one versions of games?
If I recall correctly nearly all xbo only games ran worse anyway than ps4.
Had SX used ps4 versions instead of one, the story would have been quite different.
nowifenolife
Member
Yep, believe it or not, the thought did cross my mind when I first heard there were 2 boxes coming this gen.
Zathalus
Member
On what planet would a devout PC player be tempted? Can this PS5 Pro play the Steam library they have likely built up? How well does it do with PC exclusives? Why get a PS5 Pro and not just spend that (likely) $599 on a 5070 GPU upgrade?
The only thing it would do is shift the needle on price/performance again, but that doesn't seem to impact the PC market that much. PS5/XSX launched and the PC market saw absolutely no dip and just kept growing.
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
I thought pc hardware demand kept dropping recently
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GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
Nooooooo way I'm buying more Xbox unless Starfield blows me outta the waters this console has sucked for me so far it's a Flight Simulator box
That this....still....has to be explained is fucking mind boggling.You know the believe in generations was taken out context. Added the context here.
You believe in spreading fud.
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Pedro Motta
Gold Member
I only remember 9TF RDNA 1.5.
Bernardougf
Member
Your tag is priceless mate
GHG
Gold Member
John specifically mentions they were told what's been said at the time that they first saw the Series X. The series X was first revealed in December of 2019, and the roll-out continued into early 2020. Listen to the first few minutes of this video and then look at the date:
Not understanding how you're attributing all of this to the chip shortage, considering that was yet to take hold at the time that the console was being unveiled. The chip shortage didn't really start to become an issue (especially not one that was actively being talked about) until mid 2020 which is when stockpiles and supply chains dried up.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
Xbox can only release a Series X Pro if they actually abandon either Series S or X.
Actually, I can imagine a world where they just keep the S but the Series X itself is discontinued. Because I can't imagine a world where Xbox would seriously sustain 3 SKUs and scare away third party developers.
TheUndeadGamer
Member
Why would 3 SKUs scare away third party developers? They already work with multiple configurations on PC.
ChiefDada
Member
A planet where the price to performance value proposition has swung dramatically in favor of consoles in comparison to prior generation
A planet where the prospect of Enterprise AI solutions has allowed NVidia stock to nearly triple in value over the past 6 months.
A planet where AMD has hopped on said Enterprise AI trend, which will inevitably lead to an even greater squeeze for PC gaming market.
PC gamers have effectively become second class citizens having to contend with drastically higher prices because of this AI future, it is understandably a tough/sucky situation and I sincerely mean that. I think Sony understands now more than ever that they can successfully court a greater share of the PC market with a mid gen refresh this time around because of the aforementioned market dynamics.
See above. Is it wise to bet the farm on a price/performance measure in favor of Nvidia midrange GPU over a hypothetical 2024 PS5 Pro, knowing what we know today? Be honest.
PC gaming market can experience market size growth ($) and have market share decline (% in relation to alternatives/competitors).
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I sort of get what they are saying but I personally really like the mid gen refresh, it keeps consoles closer to pc levels. Plus it doesn't cost that much to upgrade because you can sell or trade the viable current gen machine. Hopefully we still see a pro from both console makes. What would really shake things up would be a Nintendo stealth launch of a 20TF machine sooner rather than later that is backwards compatible with Switch games.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Once again, here is an example of "telling me you never play on PC" without tell me you never play on PC.
To humor you; no one ever care about PC configurations because PC gaming give the responsibility of trouble shooting to the player. There is no PC SKU because it isn't the game developer's problem.
The Xbox SKUs though?? That IS a problem, because if you don't run on all of them then you by definition can't release it.
LordOfChaos
Member
Words have meanings and you can't just string them together in a random order, Xbox, but it seem to be very par for the brand these days
FrankWza
Member
Yup. And the relief that they had abandoned last gen while PlayStation was still doing crossgen and how it would take advantage of next gen features and push graphics. Redfall, starfield and forza are the heavy hitters so far...
Mr Moose
Member
I kinda feel sorry for Series S owners. I mean I get it, its a cheaper piece of hardware that will play the same games but when you get down to it... Does it really? You miss features, you miss the framerates, you miss the textures/RT, half the storage, can't play blu-ray movies... Just get a Series X (or PS5), its not that much more.
Anchovie123
Member
Are these dudes really talking about how we dont need pro consoles and how starfield being 30fps is ok in the same video? 
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Gobjuduck
Banned
both can be saidAre these dudes really talking about how we dont need pro consoles and how starfield being 30fps is ok in the same video?
if you want 60 fps, invest in a high-end PC. Most console gamers really don't care or notice FPS, unless its egregious.
TheUndeadGamer
Member
Where is my slim Series X MS? 
After that, then we can talk about a Pro console.
After that, then we can talk about a Pro console.
01011001
Banned
Are these dudes really talking about how we dont need pro consoles and how starfield being 30fps is ok in the same video?
to be fair, they explained that they think the new consoles would be used as a crutch to get around bad development practices, which is also most likely the reason Starfield is 30fps tbh.
and they are right, the pro consoles would be used as bandages for bad developers and engines... which I am ok with, since the shitty dev practices won't go away just because there are no Pro consoles.