TheRedRiders
Member
Yh my hunch is that's it's related to something totally different, Keplar is primarily a leaker in the PC space.
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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
I don't know how to post image from my phone but here is how the Series X GPU portion of the APU is set-up.
Microsoft provides more details Xbox Series X architecture | VideoCardz.com
Gaming Consoles & Handhelds Microsoft reveals detailed specifications of Xbox Series X SoC At HotChips 2020, Microsoft has provided more details on the upcoming Xbox gaming console.
videocardz.com
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Loxus
Member
Taking a look at RDNA3.
32WGPs looks so unrealistic.
It would have to be 30WGPs for 54CUs or 36WGPs for 60CUs.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Well someone asked him if the tweet was referring to PS5 Pro and Kepler liked the tweet so while it could be about something other than the GPU setup it is about PS5 Pro and not PC related it seems.
I don't know how to post image from my phone but here is how the Series X GPU portion of the APU is set-up.
Microsoft provides more details Xbox Series X architecture | VideoCardz.com
Gaming Consoles & Handhelds Microsoft reveals detailed specifications of Xbox Series X SoC At HotChips 2020, Microsoft has provided more details on the upcoming Xbox gaming console.
I'll hold my hands up and say the technical insights of GPUs and what is/isn't technically possible isn't my forte. I would love for one of you guys to breakdown and explain what the possible GPU setups are and what absolutely isn't possible/probable.
Yeah, Im not holding my breath regarding his rumors, using zen 2 here makes very little sense when they have to keep tdp, heat and performance in mind. Such a tiny boost in cpu performance would be a terrible decision when literally a cpu architectures more than two gen ahead are available with comparable die sizes, the pro will need to have 60fps modes and they can forget it for demanding ue5 games with that cpu upgrade. Second his statement that they will be going with sonys design and not amds makes me very suspicious, at best they are collaborating in R&D to advance the capabilities of their gpus like with rdna2.
Its basically like he looked at the ps4 pro and decided ok lets copy the template and put up specs.
Its basically like he looked at the ps4 pro and decided ok lets copy the template and put up specs.
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TheRedRiders
Member
Yup next-gen engines seem to be very heavy on the CPU side of the things as well, the Pro is allegedly targeting 2.5x on ray-tracing, so it just doesn't make sense to me that they'd bump the CPU a little bit. Like I said before, this whole leak of his is a little suspect.
If Sony wants to make the Pro as cheap as possible, what's stop them enhancing Zen 2 mobile to be like and in between to later renditions of mobile zen?
Supposedly Sony is using 5NM and desktop Zen 2 had 16MBs of L3$
I dont know, the fact that they have to deliver a compelling upgrade, next gen engines are murdering the console cpus to the point they can only target 30fps with settings dialed back. When they turn on robust rt on in games the cpu is going to recieve a further heavy hit, they are going to have to come up with a decent upgrade there and they have options sitting right there unlike with jaguar and the ps4 pro which are 2 generations beyond the zen2 in heat, tdp etc factors that are serious bottlenecks in a console frame.
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Crispy Gamer
Member
We'll have to see what the final specs are but I wasn't budging from my upclocked zen 2 & 20 TF prediction if zen 4 is truly cheaper to implement then we'll see it I just think the gpu is the main focus they don't want to come in over $500. Wouldn't it also be easier for devs to code to two machines with the same cpu with different speeds 
I guess we'll need a dev to chime in
I guess we'll need a dev to chime inThose are few games doing that as the average are relatively stable.
Thats because the vast majority of games until now have been basically last gen games souped up to higher resolutions and better af textures. We just started getting current gen games and a lot of them are falling to 720p-900p with pared back draw distance/crowd etc in performance mode and still struggling to hit close to 60. Game engines and games are only going to get more advanced/demanding from here as the gen progresses.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yet these "current gen games" don't look any better than those supped up cross-genners. So, something is amiss.
PeteBull
Member
Most games we got now arent using UE5/other next gen engine, and ps5/xsx arent super strong either, but if u compare maxed out jedi fallen order vs its sequel, on 4090, difference is visible, in some areas smaller, in some bigger, but its there(and its still UE4 title).
True next gen games, that use all features of UE5 will look on pair to the matrix demo, just they will run badly , aka low fps and low native resolution on consoles, on pc recommended requirements will skyrocket once again like every time current gen consoles become base.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And it's cross-gen. That poor performance comes down to their own technical decisions.
PeteBull
Member
Wait and see how its gonna look/run on last gen consoles, then u can compare the difference
Edit Here nice comparision min vs max vs max+rt settings, imho colorado canion of gap
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Seeing how they have it poorly running on current gen, you have a point. But that comes down to them with that specific game.Wait and see how its gonna look/run on last gen consoles, then u can compare the difference
NomenNescio
Dual Sense Edger and Blower
Aren't new engines (like UE 5 for example) supposed to make games run easier, faster, prettier, lighter? So far it seems they only introduce a lot of bloated mess that make games run 720-900p.
PeteBull
Member
Easier for dev to program, prettier for sure if u got enough of power to run it at decent framerate and image quality(combo of native res+ upscaling techniques), but UE5 is super heavy on hardware, cpu, gpu, memory, ssd, i did watch interview with actual dev who said he has 18 months of coding in UE experience and thats what he claimed.
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Whitecrow
Banned
Where did you get that from?
New engines are more advanced with more features and quality of life improvements, and with that comes higher hardware requirements. End of the story.
No one said, never, that new stuff would have the same computational cost.
Take a look at RT, it wipes the floor with traditional prebaked lighting, but it has a hugh cost. The same with everything else.
That's not to say, that there cannot be optimisations for old techniques, but we passed the diminishing returns point in that regard. There's only so much left to squeeze out of last gen tech.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
The performance of the PS5 Pro should be in the range of the Halo Strix Apu. Or even higher if the number of compute units is right.
Raytracing performance in the area of the RTX 4070 Max-Q.
Raytracing performance in the area of the RTX 4070 Max-Q.
NomenNescio
Dual Sense Edger and Blower
We have higher hardware specs. PS5 is like, what, 10 times the power of a PS4? Yet you have Remnant 2 running at 720 p, a resolution we were supposed to be over in 2013.
I don't care what shenanigans a game is using in order to achieve its presentation, what matters is the end result. And that game doesn't look that impressive to me at all.
I'm impressed when I see games like Uncharted 4, Forbidden West, Part I and II. I don't care if the lighting is more baked than bread, they look incredible.
Whitecrow
Banned
They look great because they are designed around the flaws of the tech at that time and a lot of trickes hide them.
You just dont know how much more can be achieved when you get rid of said flaws and you can go bigger in scope.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Absolutely not. Unfortunately. Makes it easier for devs to do a ot of things. But its definitely not easier on the hardware. Just look at what UE5 games are doing to even the best PC hardware out there.
RGT should be banned in this thread. Quoting anything he says is as good as planting literal seeds of confusion. If that guy is ever right on anything he has said, it's because he said every possible thing there is to say so something had to be right at the end of the day.
Having said that, there really is no way to know what is possible or isn't. I mean technically, nothing stops Sony from using a similar XSX GPU layout and just putting in 16 WGs per shader engine instead of the 10 they currently use in the PS5. PS5 and XSXbth have two SEs. But PS5 is using 10 WGs/SE vs. 14 WGs/SE in the XSX APU. So it's not impossible for Sony to go with 16WGs/SE if they absolutely had to.
Nothing about what Sony has been doing suggests they would take this approach though because there seems to clearly be some sort of principle making them work in multiples of 18, and even more, it's all-round cheaper and easier for Sony to base their APU of existing CPU and GPU designs in the AMD family of processors. A 60CU total GPU, is an existing design, a 64CU one? Is not.
So I am less likely to believe any config that strays from that. The only thing that makes the 60CU active rumor a little credible, is that there has never been any leak that spoke to total CU numbers before disabling anything. The leaked CU numbers have always been the active CU count. Never total CU count.
It's also not impossible for them to still be using Zen 2. What the PS5 CPU really needs is just more cache and a higher clock. So that part is at least somewhat believable.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Like I said.
18.5 tf and we seeing a party in my pants!
18.5 tf and we seeing a party in my pants!
The Series S has fewer CUs than the One X.
Whitecrow
Banned
Because he is echoing what he hears. As I already stated, he doesnt confirm anything and treats everything as a rumour.
If anyone doesnt know what a rumour is, is his problem, not RGT's.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
First off, I will just say now, not a chance this thing cost more than $499. Nvidia got you all thinking that anything remotely powerful has to cost a fortune. Secondly, there is precedent, albeit based on a sample size of just 1, its still better than basing it off nothing at all, Sony has never made a Pro console that ended up costing more than their launch console. And lastly, if it's any solace, it's most likely going to come in at $499, without a disc drive. So with a disc drive, that technically makes it a $600 console, assuming the disc drive attachment is sold for $100. But that's a biased way of calculating it. Especially if you are comparing it to a PC upgrade.
The way I look at pro consoles is simple. They had a launch price of $500 in 2020. The pro console is what they could make for that same launch price if the PS5 was being made/released in 2024.
I don't follow, what's that got to do with anything? Anyways, MS has shown they are willing to just build whatever they want to build, They kinda make custom everything. Sony has shown they are more likely to work within the lines of mainstream tech.
That's exactly my point, he is an echo chamber. With absolutely no discretion either. And being that these are all based on `leaks` how do we know the stuff he actually heard and the stuff he is just making up? But more importantly, when ha he ever been right?
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K2D
Banned
I'll but one if GTA6 takes advantage of it. I'll buy 2 if they (R*) scrap Series S support.
Nerve mind,I have misspoken.
Crispy Gamer
Member
I'll put this here again for posterity Tom's report at Insider-gaming on May 2 revealing all of Sony's hardware plans that so far after today's news have become true he also states at the end of his report about the Pro, "Whilst we cannot report on any more specifics at this time, we understand that the first dev kit prototypes will be going to 1st party developers within the next couple of months, with 3rd party developers receiving them by the end of the year"..... So by now first party either has them or they're in the process of receiving them i hope an angry contactor leaks it 
, we're probably 2 months away from a barrage of information from 3rd party devs so not too long now
, we're probably 2 months away from a barrage of information from 3rd party devs so not too long now
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Crispy Gamer
Even If they leak the Devkits what's the point?? The first devkits are never retail hardware. It's only an indicator about the performance level.
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Crispy Gamer
Member
Yes that's precisely the point no more rumors/lies we'll have actually performance targets
Even If they leak the Devkits what's the point?? The first devkits are never retail hardware. It's only an indicator about the performance level.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Don't know why you are so excited. It's Halo Strix level(or little better) with some extra sauce.
Crispy Gamer
Member
we're all excited for any real leaks! what a weird post...
Perrott
Member
Among many other things, Microsoft stated during their FTC trial regarding the acquisition of Activision Blizzard that they're expecting the new PS5 model releasing next month to be priced at US$399.99 without the detachable disc drive.
With that in mind, let's now think about what the price tag would be for the disc drive add-on. We know that it would be targetted at a niche portion of the audience (see the massive physical vs digital split that we have nowadays), so it won't be cheap. Currently, the official PS5 console covers that Sony sells through PS Direct are priced at US$54.99, so I'm anticipating a US$79.99 price for the detachable cover containing the disc drive unit.
That would mean that a standard PS5 with physical media capabilities would cost the end user US$479.99 (or US$449.99 if they get a bundle that has the disc drive built into the PS5 by default), which means that the difference between getting such product and a digital PS5 Pro would be of just 20 to 50 dollars and that cannot be the case.
That's why I believe that US$549.99 would be the perfect price for a PS5 Pro without the disc drive, not just because it would be appropriately distanced from each of the standard PS5 offerings, but because it would be a sensitive price tag that would take into the account the rising inflation that we've experienced ever since the original release of the PS5 back in 2020.
- US$399.99 – New PlayStation 5 Digital Bundle
- US$449.99 – New PlayStation 5 w/ Disc Drive Bundle
- US$479.99 – New PlayStation 5 w/ Disc Drive (if bought separately)
- US$549.99 – PlayStation 5 Pro Digital Bundle
- US$599.99 – PlayStation 5 Pro w/ Disc Drive Bundle
- US$629.99 – PlayStation 5 Pro w/ Disc Drive (if bought separately)
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
You are overthinking this.
DD add on woudmost liey be $100. Why? Because the console without the disc drive would be $399. $399 + $100 = $499. Which is exactly what the console launched at.
PS5pro will come without a disc drive but is compatible with the DD add-on. That way they can make it a $499 console.
The DD is being turned into a peripheral. It's now no different from them selling an extra controller, controller chargers, or a headset.
And not a chance they are doing what you are suggesting.... that's them having what? 6???!!!! SKUs on the market? Crazy, the whole point of them making the DD add-on was to have just ONE on the market. Not going from two to 6.
Perrott
Member
What you're suggesting is that the standard PS5 with the disc drive would cost literally the same as the digital PS5 Pro, which is not gonna happen. There's gotta be an additional price difference between those two that would make the consumer go "hmmm, actually for X more I could just get the better, more powerful console".
And I'm not saying they'll do 6 SKUs, not at all. My point was that both the new PS5 and PS5 Pro would be commercialized in bundles both with and without the detachable disc drive, which is only a removable plate in this new PS5 redesign that will be manufactured going forward as opposed to the two distinct SKUs of the PS5 currently in the market.
Anchovie123
Member
I think people are looking too much into this "Enhanced RT" thing. In a situation where base PS5 has no RT you really think developers are going to go the extra mile to enable and optimize RT for such a niche console? Adjusting resolution values and framerates is one thing but this is a whole other ballpark in terms of development.
I think on average we will simply see more stable framerates and higher resolutions. Witch is fine considering games are starting to miss performance targets combined with sub 1080p internal resolutions its clear that we are in need of this.
I think on average we will simply see more stable framerates and higher resolutions. Witch is fine considering games are starting to miss performance targets combined with sub 1080p internal resolutions its clear that we are in need of this.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. First keep in mind that by the time the PS5 pro comes out, there will be only one PS5 in circulation. And that PS5 would cost $399. In reality, since we are talking fall 2024, by that time the PS5 may even be down to $350. What I am assuming though, is that yes, there would be a $100 price difference between the PS5 and the PS5 Pro. The same way there was a $100 difference between the PS4 and PS4pro.
That a DD add-on happens to cost $100? Is irrelevant.
And no, the difference between one bundle to te next isn't just a faceplate that happens to have a disc drive attached. Its packaging, different kinds of shipping logistics, marketing, and promotion. But most importantly, it gives retailers a choice as to which sku they want, and make no mistake, given the choice, retailers would request to have the one with a disc drive bundled in. Every time.
MisterXDTV
Member
AMD RX 7700 XT has 54 CUs, 6 less than the full Navi 32 Chip...
Just like we expect from PS5 Pro
videocardz.com
Just like we expect from PS5 Pro
AMD announces Radeon RX 7800 XT 16GB and RX 7700 XT 12GB graphics cards - VideoCardz.com
AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT & RX 7700 XT revealed, designed for 1440p gaming At Gamescom AMD announces its mid-range RX 7000 GPUs. AMD has unveiled two highly anticipated graphics cards: the RX 7800 XT and RX 7700 XT, filling a crucial gap in AMD’s RDNA3 desktop lineup. Although we had some...
videocardz.com
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foamdino
Member
AlsoAMD RX 7700 XT has 54 CUs, 6 disabled from the full Navi 32 Chip...
Just like we expect from PS5 Pro
AMD announces Radeon RX 7800 XT 16GB and RX 7700 XT 12GB graphics cards - VideoCardz.com
AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT & RX 7700 XT revealed, designed for 1440p gaming At Gamescom AMD announces its mid-range RX 7000 GPUs. AMD has unveiled two highly anticipated graphics cards: the RX 7800 XT and RX 7700 XT, filling a crucial gap in AMD’s RDNA3 desktop lineup. Although we had some...
I'm guessing the "[8 7] [8 7]" tweet was memory timings
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
so PS5 pro will be a 7700XT? That should be pretty decent right?
Synless
Member
If I consider how PC gaming is done, yes. Developers add all these crazy advanced options to games only a fraction of their player base could ever utilize. I don’t see this being much different.
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Caio
Member
Too early to say. Most probably it will be a very custom piece of hardware based on the RX 7800 XT.
TheRedRiders
Member
What will be the resulting memory bandwidth?
Anyways I do think the Viola chip will be heavily customized, so comparisons will be weird.
MisterXDTV
Member
It should be based on the 7800 XT but with the CU count of the 7700 XT (54). Simply disabling 6 CUs
It will be heavily customized though
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
Memory timings? Can't remember anyone ever discussing those about a console much less posting a cryptic Tweet about them. With PC's maybe, but not consoles. The below Tweet that Kepler also liked points to it being about the GPU WGP/SE/SA setup.
A really highly clocked 8WGP/SA config?
TheRedRiders
Member
Forgive my ignorance, but does this have any implications on the CU count?