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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)

Would you upgrade from your current PS5?

  • For sure

    Votes: 377 41.0%
  • Probably

    Votes: 131 14.2%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 127 13.8%
  • Unlikely

    Votes: 140 15.2%
  • Not a chance

    Votes: 145 15.8%

  • Total voters
    920

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Are we assuming they can exceed the RT performance of AMD’s own GPUs via “secret sauce” ?
Depends. The reason RT fails on every AMD GPU thus far is due to a lack of BVH acceleration. And that is something that has been making a lot of noise on its implementation in RDNA4 and there is also some custom Sony patent stuff about RT shortening. Basically, a way to use fewer rays.

If both of those things make their way into the PS5pro, then it would have RT better than any AMD GPU that is not on RDNA4 and at the very least be on par with 30 series Nvidia RT performance per RT core.

On another note, if that 60CU count is true, that means that realistically we are looking at 54CU active at best, and I know 2700MHz sounds cool and all, but realistically it's probably going to be in the 2500MHz region. Meaning we are talking about a 17-18TF raw TF number here. The only way a PS5pro is warranted with that inda base TF number is if there are advancements made in other areas of the architecture that allows them do so much more.

On that note,y money is on dual issue compute, proper AI acceleration, and better RT.
 
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Loxus

Member
This is very impressive stuff. Any reason we can come up with as to why Sony wouldn't use a 3D APU? Surely if they insisted on going the monolithic route that would be like going against the grain.

It at least could explain why the PS5pro isn't due out until next year. Because if it's given some thought, a monolithic APU on a 4/5/6nm process, could be made this year.
It's just speculation.
Chiplets makes it easier when making 2 consoles.

2 SEDs for PS5
3 SEDs for PS5 Pro.
 

Loxus

Member
I still think Sony will use AMD RT and AI.
They collaborated with the PS5 and RDNA, I can see them doing it again for PS5 Pro.

NrCxGgK.jpg


I can see the PS5 Pro having RT 3rd gen and AI 2nd gen.

It's such a shame Nintendo isn't using AMD for Switch 2.
 
I don't know why the debate focuses on the number of CUs, PS5 has the same as PS4 pro, 4 less than one x and 16 less than Series X and we already see the results and how it performs equaling and in some cases surpassing the latter.

Yeah, people are using the MS method here: more CUs doesn't guarantee better performance

But 3 years ago people were predicting big differences because 12>10 and 52>36

They were even mocking Cerny's strategy of variable frequencies and constant power as "overclocked 9 TF GPU RDNA 1.5"

LOL
 
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Loxus

Member
Now only if they could just repackage really defective PS5pro APUs and ship them out as standard PS5 APUs. Highly unlikely but it would be cool if that were possible. Would be a new meaning for console reduced manufacturing costs.
With SEDs, I don't think that's a problem.

A wafer would consist of only 4nm SED chiplets, instead of the entire monolithic chip.

Sony may use about 4 different wafers.
Active interposer die 5-6nm wafer,
Multimedia and I/O die 4nm wafer,
CPU die 4nm wafer,
Shader engine die 4nm wafer.

Both CPU and SED would stack on top of the AID.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
When do people think we may get more solid leaks? Early next year, or later?

I wonder when they will roll out dev kits for launch. I imagine Spring/Summer next year?
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Yeah, people are using the MS method here: more CUs doesn't guarantee better performance

But 3 years ago people were predicting big differences because 12>10 and 52>36

They were even mocking Cerny's strategy of variable frequencies and constant power as "overclocked 9 TF GPU RDNA 1.5"

LOL
I think the TF thing persists because it's the easiest to understand. But most of us have been saying that the TF number is the most important thing to be looking at now. But still.... it persists.

The PC space had its TF moment in 2018 with the release of the 2080. Just looking at TFs, it wasn't much different from the 1080... but unlike the 1080, it had RT and AI cores. And that made all the difference.

Guess we are not there yet with consoles.
 

PeteBull

Member
Rumor has it more studios will get kits towards the end of this year and likely the ninjas wont be able to keep everyone quiet
Makes sense, if they expecting to launch holidays 2024 then devs gotta have some first versions of devkit this year at least, leaks will happen before year ends, and some solid leaks at that where we will know 100% what this baby can do ;D
 

iorek21

Member
Trinity…?

"Gaf, when I came to you with those calculations, we thought mid gen refreshes might start a chain reaction that would destroy the gaming world..."

GAF: "I remember it well. What of it?"

"I believe we did."
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
All this speculation about 3d stacked APUs brings back memories of the lead-up to PS4 with talk of TSVs and stacking back in ~2012. Over 10 years later and I would still seriously doubt it is viable cost wise and physically to make such chips in the millions as would be required here. Never say never but I would be very shocked if this came to pass.

As for devkits, if it turns out true that some devs are getting them by years end it may suggest an earlier than November launch or it may mean Sony feel devs need more time to work with the new features if they go further spec wise than with PS4 Pro. I still feel whatever devkit goes out at the end of this year/beginning of next will have basically the final APU/SoC with maybe different clocks. Maybe whichever first party dev is chosen to showcase PS5 Pro at launch (Insomniac's Wolverine?) have used a target spec PC thus far?
 
It's just speculation.
Chiplets makes it easier when making 2 consoles.

2 SEDs for PS5
3 SEDs for PS5 Pro.
Problem is all 3 SEDs should be perfectly identical. We know for PS4 Pro the second 20CUs part is actually slightly different. It's being alleged some parts required for PS4 BC were only seen on half the GPU. For PS5 Pro I am expecting 3 slighty different SEs. Besides I don't think the cost of using chiplets would be worthwhile with only 60CUs.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
All this speculation about 3d stacked APUs brings back memories of the lead-up to PS4 with talk of TSVs and stacking back in ~2012. Over 10 years later and I would still seriously doubt it is viable cost wise and physically to make such chips in the millions as would be required here. Never say never but I would be very shocked if this came to pass.

As for devkits, if it turns out true that some devs are getting them by years end it may suggest an earlier than November launch or it may mean Sony feel devs need more time to work with the new features if they go further spec wise than with PS4 Pro. I still feel whatever devkit goes out at the end of this year/beginning of next will have basically the final APU/SoC with maybe different clocks. Maybe whichever first party dev is chosen to showcase PS5 Pro at launch (Insomniac's Wolverine?) have used a target spec PC thus far?
I think the difference now is that everything AMD is doing is leaning into chipsets.
 

shamoomoo

Banned
I mean, how many people were thinking about ray-tracing in 2017-2018 when Cerny talked to developers pitching ideas for PS5?

I mean I hadn't even heard about it yet.... :D
This video is about 10-years old,so some devs realize real-time ray tracing might've been possible after the PS3 was coming to an end. Also Nvidia's Turning GPU didn't get release until 2018 and designs are years out,that means there was a 5 year gap until real-time ray tracing came to the market.

 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
Like I say I ain't convinced...yet. In a world of $15-$20,000 wafers and $100's of millions to develop a SoC sticking to a relatively simple monolithic APU is a no-brainer.
This is technically not true. I mean..it is, but with some context, it could just as easily be taken in the opposite direction.

And that staff people say, about 100sofmillions to develop a SOC, is fundamentally incorrect. RDNA, Zen, chipets...etc, may all cost AMD 100s of millions in R&D over the past 6-8 years... it cost Sony however, whatever they pay for an individual chip and some sort of stipend to allow them some customization.
 
RT is irrelevant until the low budget cards can pull it off. Just look at what CDPro recommends for Cyberpunk.

I think there's 2 parts to it, the first being the limitations on hardware especially on the lower end.

The second is, that some of the game developers don't really care, I remember watching a few interviews, one with a COD developer who said that they had tested ray-tracing systems in their titles but found little gains in visuals. I think he was referring to RT shadows specifically. Another developer interview I saw mentioned that they couldn't tell much of a difference between the baked lighting and the RTGI system.

Considering the performance cost of ray-tracing weighed against the gains in visual fidelity it explains why developers can sometimes be reluctant. Hopefully that changes with the PS5 Pro and PS6, where RTGI will become the standard across games.
 
Anyone see RGT'S new video.

He claims that the PS5 Pro will have all 60 CU active, and I think 4 CU disabled. The CPU is apparently still based on Zen 2 but clocked close to 4 Ghz and the GPU itself is clocked at around 2.5 - 2.7 Ghz. He claims the RT hardware in PS5 is more close to Sony's own custom solution rather than RDNA 4 but keeps hearing "contradictory reports".

Of course take it with a grain of salt, RGT's PS5 leaks have been super sketchy in the past but I thought it was at least worth sharing. It also seems like he's shortened his video and been a bit more straightforward about the information, I have a hunch he's seen our criticism on Gaf lol

 
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THE:MILKMAN

Member
In this latest video he shows Kepler_L2's latest cryptic tweet posted hours before ('[8 7] [8 7]') which now seems to imply the PS5 Pro GPU could be a [active] 2SE, 15WGP + 15WGP setup? Isn't that a big change (from both earlier rumours and a typical AMD RDNA config)? Can anyone explain this possible setup compared to say Navi 32?

I just find all this funny as time goes on the PS5 Pro just slowly morphs into another PS4 Pro i.e up-clocked Zen 2, same slightly faster 16GB RAM and ~+100% TF/raster GPU with new custom bits and AMD roadmap features.
 

PeteBull

Member
Anyone see RGT'S new video.

He claims that the PS5 Pro will have all 60 CU active, and I think 4 CU disabled. The CPU is apparently still based on Zen 2 but clocked close to 4 Ghz and the GPU itself is clocked at around 2.5 - 2.7 Ghz. He claims the RT hardware in PS5 is more close to Sony's own custom solution rather than RDNA 4 but keeps hearing "contradictory reports".

Of course take it with a grain of salt, RGT's PS5 leaks have been super sketchy in the past but I thought it was at least worth sharing. It also seems like he's shortened his video and been a bit more straightforward about the information, I have a hunch he's seen our criticism on Gaf lol


That would mean extremly tiny cpu performance upgrade which in turn would mean 0 chance to keep games with the matrix demo quality at stable 30fps, we cant forget on ps5/xsx it dips below 20 as soon as some srs action is happening.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
Anyone see RGT'S new video.

He claims that the PS5 Pro will have all 60 CU active, and I think 4 CU disabled. The CPU is apparently still based on Zen 2 but clocked close to 4 Ghz and the GPU itself is clocked at around 2.5 - 2.7 Ghz. He claims the RT hardware in PS5 is more close to Sony's own custom solution rather than RDNA 4 but keeps hearing "contradictory reports".

Of course take it with a grain of salt, RGT's PS5 leaks have been super sketchy in the past but I thought it was at least worth sharing. It also seems like he's shortened his video and been a bit more straightforward about the information, I have a hunch he's seen our criticism on Gaf lol



That would put Pro on par with RX 6800, right?

 
In this latest video he shows Kepler_L2's latest cryptic tweet posted hours before ('[8 7] [8 7]') which now seems to imply the PS5 Pro GPU could be a [active] 2SE, 15WGP + 15WGP setup? Isn't that a big change (from both earlier rumours and a typical AMD RDNA config)? Can anyone explain this possible setup compared to say Navi 32?

I just find all this funny as time goes on the PS5 Pro just slowly morphs into another PS4 Pro i.e up-clocked Zen 2, same slightly faster 16GB RAM and ~+100% TF/raster GPU with new custom bits and AMD roadmap features.

That would mean extremly tiny cpu performance upgrade which in turn would mean 0 chance to keep games with the matrix demo quality at stable 30fps, we cant forget on ps5/xsx it dips below 20 as soon as some srs action is happening.

I'm not well versed in the shader layouts of the GPU so I usually avoid commenting on them, but yes seems more like it's going to have similar performance targets to the PS4 Pro such as double rasterization performance, with a mild gain in CPU performance... but again I'd be highly skeptical, RGT Playstation leaks are always almost wrong... actually I can't even think of anything he's gotten right historically? maybe someone can correct me on that.


That would put Pro on par with RX 6800, right?


Yup although it's always weird comparing it to the PC counterpart, the APU will likely be based on RDNA 3.5 (whatever that is) as well as being heavily customized by Sony. However if it matches or even exceeds the 6800 XT in rasterization performance then that would be impressive.
 
Anyone else have concerns on the memory bandwidth? I think the current leaks allude to it being around 576 GB/s? which honestly seems to be small of a jump for me.

If we look at the performance targets, doubling rasterization performance, increased CU's, heavy focus on ray-tracing, all of which eat up a lot of memory bandwidth, surely they'd want to double it. Maybe they have some sort of Infinity Cache to offset it?
 

Whitecrow

Banned
I wonder why people put words on RGT when RGT says every fkn time that all are rumours and things he also heard from other sources.
Why treat him like if he was confirming anything or leaking things from his ass?
 

YeulEmeralda

Linux User
I think there's 2 parts to it, the first being the limitations on hardware especially on the lower end.

The second is, that some of the game developers don't really care, I remember watching a few interviews, one with a COD developer who said that they had tested ray-tracing systems in their titles but found little gains in visuals. I think he was referring to RT shadows specifically. Another developer interview I saw mentioned that they couldn't tell much of a difference between the baked lighting and the RTGI system.

Considering the performance cost of ray-tracing weighed against the gains in visual fidelity it explains why developers can sometimes be reluctant. Hopefully that changes with the PS5 Pro and PS6, where RTGI will become the standard across games.
In my opinion we won't see RT until the PS6. Folks are setting themselves up for disappointment in this alleged PS5Pro.
 

shamoomoo

Banned
In this latest video he shows Kepler_L2's latest cryptic tweet posted hours before ('[8 7] [8 7]') which now seems to imply the PS5 Pro GPU could be a [active] 2SE, 15WGP + 15WGP setup? Isn't that a big change (from both earlier rumours and a typical AMD RDNA config)? Can anyone explain this possible setup compared to say Navi 32?

I just find all this funny as time goes on the PS5 Pro just slowly morphs into another PS4 Pro i.e up-clocked Zen 2, same slightly faster 16GB RAM and ~+100% TF/raster GPU with new custom bits and AMD roadmap features.
That can't work,the number has to be even per shader engine. It would have to be 14,16,18 or 20 dual CUs/work group processor for a total 56 CUs like the Series X or64 ,72 and 80 for 2 shader engine.

From what I understand,like the Series X,you can cram more compute units per shader engine it's just doing so leaves less resources to feed all of those components effectively. Also, I'm not sure what the cut off is for work group processor per shader engine.

An enhanced Zen 2 might be true as it started with 16 MBs of L3$ before being chopped in half for the mobile version.
 
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PeteBull

Member
I'm not well versed in the shader layouts of the GPU so I usually avoid commenting on them, but yes seems more like it's going to have similar performance targets to the PS4 Pro such as double rasterization performance, with a mild gain in CPU performance... but again I'd be highly skeptical, RGT Playstation leaks are always almost wrong... actually I can't even think of anything he's gotten right historically? maybe someone can correct me on that.
About leaks being true or not, and actually having some solid info- if we assume ps5pr0 launches holiday 2024 earliest, then at least year in advance sony will have to send at least first version of devkits to the big pulbishers who will have to make ps5pr0 profile for their multiplatform releases, so holiday this year we can expect some credible and accurate leaks(among many fake ones that came straight of the ass)- ofc such first version of the devkit might be made on 5nm and generate more heat/take more power/look completely different vs final product, performance wise it should be superclose or onpoint(sometimes console manufacturer decides to up clocks really close to launch).

Its really hard to comment on some wet dreams/guesses of ppl who cant be in the know. Instead we should base our estimations on logic and known facts that cant change, since those arent speculations.

Example: if its holiday 2024 launchdate u cant assume 5nm process, but rather 3nm, otherwise there would be no reason to wait till then but we would get 5nm ps5pro year ago(nvidias rtx 40xx series is made on improved 5nm node called 4n for marketing purposes).

Another sure/logical thing is powerdraw ps5pr0 can have, since base ps5 could already draw 206W when running launch game such as miles morales- measured directly by DF in console review, u can assume ps5pr0 will also target around 220W powerdraw since it still has to be console form factor with noise/cooling profile that is apropriate for a console stationed in ur living room, not some separate cold bacement, so even on 3nm node it wont be anywhere close to current top gpu's powerwise that draw 400W+ and even around 600W if overclocked to the max(yups premium more expensive version of the card, with better cooling, more expensive pcb, binned chips etc).

Third sure thing is, current base ps5 power and its equivalent in pc space (best case scenario) https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-6700-xt.c3695 thats how powerful ps5 gpu can get, thx to optimisation/coding to the metal, and single spec aproach, even tho this gpu is visibly better or at the very least on pair in every possible aspect.

On a side note that was amd's flagship gpu that launched right before ps5 launch https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-6900-xt.c3481 so again great to extrapolate for future, when we get info about 2nd half/holiday 2024 amd flagship gpu.

TLDR Even if we use common sense and logic, we need more data since atm we are almost 1,5 year away from ps5pr0 launch, so hard to estimate its specs/performance straight from the ether w/o at least knowing its manufacturing process and what amd's flagship gpu is specs/perf wise, once we know that basic info we can guess somewhat accurately possible ps5pr0 specs.

Cost wise 600 to 800$ is safe bet, 600$ if sony takes conservative aproach, 800$ if they go balls to the wall path.
 
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Dr.D00p

Gold Member
The PS5 Pro could be seeing the first fruits of AMD hiring those ex Nvidia tech peeps over the last 2yrs.

RDNA 4 was when we were supposed to be seeing the results of that but early stuff related to improved RT performance could make its debut early.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
That can't work,the number has to be even per shader engine. It would have to be 14,16,18 or 20 dual CUs/work group processor for a total 56 CUs like the Series X or64 ,72 and 80 for 2 shader engines.

From what I understand,like the Series X,you can cram more compute units per shader engine it's just doing so leaves less resources to feed all of those components effectively. Also, I'm not sure what the cut off is for work group processor per shader engine.

An enhanced Zen 2 might be true as it started with 16 MBs of L3$ before being chopped in half for the mobile version.

So how would you interpret Kepler's '8 7 8 7' tweet? I just read it as 2SE 16WGP + 16WGP with 1 turned off in each giving the 30WGP active.

Or maybe the tweet means something totally different....?
 
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