rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Everyone knows that. Have you watched a single proper monitor review in last 10 years?
And yeah, everything doomed sony when it comes to tvs. They don't sell
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Mini LED to be Sony's 2024 flag ship TV
- Thread starter S0ULZB0URNE
- Start date
And yeah, everything doomed sony when it comes to tvs. They don't sell
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Don't ask a question if you don't want the answer.Seems the most likely reason.
Not surprised. I have a few years old TCL Mini LED TV (8 series) and a LG OLED. The contrast and black levels on Mini LED is excellent, and blooming is minimal. I don't have to worry about burn in on the mini LED. HDR content is just on another level on the mini LED due to the brightness capabilities. I think the tech has matured enough to be the preferred solution for larger screens (75 inch+)
Senua
Member
It's way past your med-time mate.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I am still a huge fan of another monitor I own and use back in Indiana a Samsung Odyssey NEO G8 32" 4k 240hz VA panel and in no way does an LG 27UK650 look way better than this monitor
Mister Wolf
Member
You didn't drink the Jim Jones Kool-Aid LG was handing out.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Yep, but it’s not like their new flagship isn’t going to be grossly overpriced too. Their entire TV lineup is, every year, compared to their competitors. The Sony tax is very real. Still, I have to admit they make quality stuff, even if their TVs do tend to have unjustified quirks.
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
About a year ago I was talking to the Sony centre chain manager, here in the UK. And they said the sales of the top tier best TV award winning QD-OLED's hadnt sold well at all. I'm not going to quote the figures, but at the time, it was shockingly low. I mean jaw droppingly low. And for normal OLED (WOLED) it was the 80 series that sold.
I'm just so glad there's a stronger and stronger case for LCD. There was a time when I thought that show was soon going to be over. Its great to have choice, so I hope all techs keep moving forwards.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Of course LG wins nowadays.
They have best tvs and some of best monitors.
And don't tell me what is a tv and what is a monitor. I use c1 for a monitor. It's all the same category.
G8 is certainly way better than usual trash VA. 240hz is doing nothing to poor va pixel response but black frame response maybe so.
But yeah, I guarantee you 27uk650 have better image quality... like better colors, better viewing angles and so on. Of course it's only 60hz so it's a trade off
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yep that's that.
Why would anyone buy a sony oled, which is a bit worse version of lg oled tv... for like 1.5-2x the price. At least her, that's the difference.
Senua
Member
IIRC Sony OLEDS are better for movies and worse for games than LG ones.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Unless its different than the 27UK600 (which looking at my records I bought in 2018 via Best Buy and returned it) then no the NEO G8 looks way better to me
But its all personal preference
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
There's a nuance to the picture processing with Sony that for me. LG cant beat. And I've owned 3 LG OLED's and seen all of their current range. Whether that's worth the price, is down to personal preference.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
yeah it's that one. I had few of these years ago. One of better SDR ips monitors I've tested. At least with right settings which I don't remember.
Sure, it's personal preference to some degree
Fair enough. I already explained my pov though. Sony tvs are not "better" for movies. there is no special magic or processing here. You can raise blacks in many ways on lg oleds too.
We are splitting hairs here.
For gaming yes of course. LG has more functions but it's not a big difference
Anyone still arguing lcd vs oled should get fact checked
S0ULZB0URNE
The only area where BEST 240hz monitors can match oled is input lag. But then you add pixel response times for image to actually move
VitoNotVito
Member
Is it?
Buggy Loop
Member
Dude you’re always on outdated opinions based on few old ass experiences.
My Sony X93L VA miniLED beats the ever living shit out of any « monitors » I have had in the years, VA and IPS collectively combined.
Do you really take Sony for a fool?
Many top end TV reviewers now main the X95L.
To get my TV image to drop in quality I have to sit like at 80 degrees offset. Who and why would anyone watch movies like this. Who spends so many thousands on a TV to twist their fucking neck during all that viewing?
Dragging current miniLED tech, especially Sony who is a head above everyone with processing and dimming zones, to old ass VA comparisons is archaic and down right laughable.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Look at my post above. your shitty tv doesn't beat any oled.
Va is va. With laggy backlight to boot...
Brightness is not everything and that's the only advantage shitty mini led has. But I am content and overblown with 800-1000 nits peak on oled. blows your eyes out in some scenes. can't be beaten with contrast like that.
edit: sorry I shouldn't be so mean. I am sure your tv is just fine.
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Senua
Member
It's pretty well agreed upon the Sonys have better motion handling and upscaling than LG. I love my C3 but let's not ignore the Sony OLEDs advantages.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
TVs have reached that smartphone point where yearly improvements are absolutely negligible and midrange is so solid and free of glaring flaws, that flagships make very little sense for the majority of customers. Yearly lineup refreshes also mean that if your TV is really quite old, you just have to wait a few months and prices for the top stuff will be a steal compared to launch prices. The tech is stagnant. The next quantum leap is very far and nobody wants to ruin the small improvements game by releasing something game-changing (who knows, mayyyybe some real gaming TV with high refresh rates and a BFI to match them?).
It makes zero sense to buy an overpriced new TV when last year’s models are essentially the same and you can get them at half price. I don’t know what they expect there.
I also want to see a good challenge for OLEDs. The tech is overrated as hell and the only reasons it made a breakthrough in gaming are we’ve had a long cross-gen console period with 60fps options, and smaller-size screens making it to the market and onto the desks of PC gamers.
RaZoR No1
Member
What happened to MicroLED?
Where is it?
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I am not entirely disagreeing here. I just don't think the difference is at all worth the price difference but I would be willing to try if sony fixed their oled pixel refreshers behavior, price and gaming stuff
Mister Wolf
Member
He won't even admit LG is in third place behind Samsung and Sony in producing high end OLEDS. LG had a good run. One of the best. It's over now.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Not personal preference to some degree you just gave slides where VA panel from the monitor I mention beat every IPS panelyeah it's that one. I had few of these years ago. One of better SDR ips monitors I've tested. At least with right settings which I don't remember.
Sure, it's personal preference to some degree
Fair enough. I already explained my pov though. Sony tvs are not "better" for movies. there is no special magic or processing here. You can raise blacks in many ways on lg oleds too.
We are splitting hairs here.
For gaming yes of course. LG has more functions but it's not a big difference
Anyone still arguing lcd vs oled should get fact checked
The only area where BEST 240hz monitors can match oled is input lag. But then you add pixel response times for image to actually move
Plus in a side by side said VA has a lot of wins under its belt
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tool...27uk650-w/33710/661?usage=3623&threshold=0.10
Senua
Member
I agree with you that's why I bought the C3 but like I said we can still list the pros and cons, no need to downplay.
Fake
Member
I guess is very expensive at this moment. Samsung had one microLED TV, but is damn expensive.
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah I get the average joe consumer argument and perceived differences. But for me, I adore HDR and recently, in the past few years both techs have been making great improvements in terms of luminance capabilities, whilst maintaining great black levels. But I'm an enthusiast. I'm just very grateful, not only for the advances, but also that companies are still catering for me - I get that I'm a low sales niche part of their product line up for sure.
Struggling to get it smaller, the last goal achieved was 77'' it needs to drop to around 55'' for it to be commercially viable for mainstream.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I wonder if Sony is planning to use similar technology as Aple micro led (2025)? This would explain why they no longer want to invest in OLEDs, as much better technology will soon be available.
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Kdad
Member
SONY chose to stop OLED development back in 2014, after being first to market with the XEL -1. They read the market wrong and had to make a deal with LG just to have a product line.
Mister Wolf
Member
I'm pretty sure Sony buys QD-OLED panels from Samsung.
MicroLED is not at a point for mass market consumer pricing yet. It’s the end state for LCD displays with per pixel backlighting. MiniLED until then.
Bojji
Member
MiniLED is just LCD with fancy backlight. MicroLED is like OLED but without flaws.
According to people that are obsessed with full screen brightness it probably is.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
ain’t gonna tear oled from my hands. Looks too gorgeous. This obsession with brightness is not going to move me. Oled sears my eyeballs in a dark room.
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PaintTinJr
Member
I'm not sure that's a meaningful criteria when results are diminishing returns and it is more reliable tech, and more power efficient - based on the digital trends video info - and cheaper to produce, meaning that Sony can bring the cost down for consumers and raise their own margins at the same time, and because the tech is only complex by layering, they probably see a Moore's law type path ahead with LCD/LED that just isn't likely to be there with OLED.
The digital trends video also suggested it will likely try to converge with Sony's 4000nits mastering mini-LED monitors - or get close - that OLED might struggle to get there and compete on price. Obviously, I'm biased as I'm still rocking an old 65" ZD9 and marvel at how good stuff looks on it, daily, and haven't been convinced by OLED at friends, or even newer TVs by Sony to drop that type of big money again on a replacement for a minimal gain. But this sounds like the generational improvement I'd want when I choose or am forced to replaced the ZD9 in the lounge.
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E-Cat
Member
Sounds like the holy grail for non-holographic TVs.
Zathalus
Member
Forget about it, manufacturing costs for large panels face certain technological issues that appear impossible to overcome at this stage. Best estimates put a 10 inch panel costing over a thousand dollars in 5 years time with TV size panels still costing tens of thousands. At this point it's not going to be a thing even in ten years time.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
exactly.
My c1 is "only" 800 nits and it's already a crazy value considering we've all been using SDR at 100 nits (if any of you used your sdr monitors properly).
The damn thing with HDR is doing 800 nits peak and that's all there needs to be. I like playing in a rom with one corner light or in complete darkness and c1 is already super bright.
Sure, 800 nits peak is only on a small windows but that's all you need in most cases.
Lol look at this (my vid)... and I am supposed to get 4000 nits... of that ?!
IlGialloMondadori
Member
That’s exactly it. They want bigger margins, this is cheaper, so they’re also trying to sell you on it with “energy saving” etc.
I’m sure the tech is improving, but the blooming on iPad Pros absolutely sucks.
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Mister Wolf
Member
Hisense U9DG Review (75U9DG )
The Hisense U9DG is Hisense's flagship 4k TV in 2021, and it's a very unique TV. It's the first widely available TV that uses a dual-layer LCD panel, with a 1080...
www.rtings.com
Sony will likely attempt a consumer level dual layer LCD like Hisense produced. That is the tech used by their new mastering monitor.
RaZoR No1
Member
77" would be ideal for me
Buggy Loop
Member
Even Chinese brand miniLED blows your argument out of the water with Nvidia LDAT to boot.
0.2 ms
So laggy.
Bring that WOLED to 144Hz and It will lose.
So what is? Whole point of modern panels and race to technology are for nits.
In a cute ~10~15% window size?
Dune's Arrakis scene when Atreides clan comes to the planet for the first time, on mini LED, which is basically 95~100% full screen HDR, is not even a fair match against OLED.
Characters squint? Oh you'll squint also.
Black
crush
Shadow detail is more important. Look at that $30k reference monitor.
Insane Metal
Member
IDK where to post this so here it goes, 480Hz OLED monitor!
www.pcmag.com
CES 2024: LG Develops OLED Monitor That Can Hit 480Hz Refresh Rate
LG says it achieved the 480Hz rate on a QHD 2,560-by-1,440-resolution display.
Zathalus
Member
I'm of the opinion that in a dark room nothing beats OLED. A room that sees extensive use while brightly lit is better served by using Mini LED.
So a dark PC gaming room is perfect for OLED while the bright family room is better served by Mini LED. Bit of a reversal from a few years ago when OLED was in the living room and the PC was generally connected to a LED monitor of some sort.
So a dark PC gaming room is perfect for OLED while the bright family room is better served by Mini LED. Bit of a reversal from a few years ago when OLED was in the living room and the PC was generally connected to a LED monitor of some sort.
And this is the crux of the ongoing debate. Not everyone games or watches movies in dark rooms. OLED enthusiasts for some reason have a difficult time understanding the possibility of different room conditions.
This is my living room. Ignore the bare walls, moved in this past year and am working on fixing things. But you’ll note that there is a door sized window on the right. There are three of them next to one another, and it’s south facing so I get lots of natural light. Imagine how bright it gets on sunny days. I enjoy the outdoors, so I never use those blinds.
LG’s MLA tech has made their OLED models with it under consideration and I am eyeballing the upcoming G4, but they still have other issues since I am a console gamer, what with sub-40 fps causing stutter due to immediate pixel response. Most of the games I play have HUDs too, like when I play Stellaris for many, many, MANY hours at a time. Screen retention isn’t the worst, but it IS there and I remember getting annoyed by it on my old Panasonic plasma many years ago.
OLED is a great bit of tech, but it’s irritating watching it being stated as the de facto best TV option. The real answer is it depends. If you’re a movie watcher and in a dark room, OLED is unquestionably the best tech to go with. That same OLED will likely struggle in my living room when the sun shines through. LED televisions have no such issues. But I have to deal with the blooming at night. Such is life.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Complete bullshit regarding viewing angle.
Sound and Vision: Sony looks to Mini LED for brighter, smarter HDR in 2024
OPINION: Steve May travels to Sony HQ Japan for insight into its 2024 TV plans, and hands-on with the brightest professional mastering monitor yetwww.trustedreviews.com
"There’s no perfect display device, admits Sony Distinguished Engineer Toshiyuku Ogura, but he seems to believe that Mini LED has the greatest potential, when it comes to colour volume, brightness and viewing angle."
You can't beat OLED in this case.
Kdad
Member
OLED was $2500+ in 2008 when SONY came out with the XEL-1, 11" 960x540 (1/4 1080p)
So...yep, could be good number of years away for micro at TV scale
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Even Chinese brand miniLED blows your argument out of the water with Nvidia LDAT to boot.
0.2 ms
So laggy.
Bring that WOLED to 144Hz and It will lose.
So what is? Whole point of modern panels and race to technology are for nits.
In a cute ~10~15% window size?
Dune's Arrakis scene when Atreides clan comes to the planet for the first time, on mini LED, which is basically 95~100% full screen HDR, is not even a fair match against OLED.
Characters squint? Oh you'll squint also.
Black
crush
Shadow detail is more important. Look at that $30k reference monitor.
what kinda of fake graph is that? what does it represent?
Oled is the fastest. Faster than any lcd. that's it.
And what I am talking about is backlight mini zones catching up to displayed image. It takes some time and reviewers confirm that. It's not major but it's true.
Small window is enough for 800 nits. I don't want whole screen this bright. I watched Dune and it looked amazing. 50% window is still plenty bright.
Reality is, that HDR brightness is best used on highlights, clouds, and light sources. Not on whole planes/areas
black crush is not a thing. I explained that. Way overblown. Let's see your black crush on a va....