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Digital Foundry - Upscaling Face-Off: PS5 Pro PSSR vs PC DLSS/FSR 3.1 in Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
- Thread starter Gaiff
- Start date
Physiognomonics
Member
At this point next Xbox will likely license PSSR...
Sure at full res RT on PC is slighty better. But using quality on the moment I shared the reflections are similar but aliasing is terrible with DLSS. Both have pluses and minuses, here some lag, but elsewhere plenty of aliasing on PC and you better not use CBR reflections with DLSS... Overall ratchet and clank running on PS5 Pro looks incredibly similar as running on high end PC with the same resolution and full res RT. Now we understand the recent statements from John and the look of Alex.You "forgot" about full res reflections on PC:
And PSSR has motion trails on RT:
Bojji
Member
Except you can use much higher settings on PC:
Alex had to limit PC version to PS5 performance mode for fair comparison.
PaintTinJr
Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Even on a Pro, it doesn't look as good as it could. It's just Performance Mode using PSSR when it could probably do this using Fidelity Mode. The settings on PC scale higher than the Fidelity Mode. It's a meh showcase for the Pro because it just swaps out IGTI for PSSR.
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Insane Metal
Member
As a first effor I think PSSR looks freaking amazing tbh. Good job from Sony.
Bojji
Member
It's a good showcase for PSSR (bright, colorful game - hard for reconstruction techniques) but otherwise quite low effort.
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XXL
Member
Agreed.
XXL
Member
Lol. It's all good. PSSR looks great, exciting times ahead.
MazingerDUDE
Member
Some very obvious differences which somehow DF had failed to recognize.. as usual lol
Fess
Member
But why? Who would be interested in such a comparison?
As said in a different thread, nobody who is seriously considering moving from console to PC is going to limit themselves to building a PC with parts comparable to any console and run at console settings.
It’s a stupid idea. People are going to build as powerful PC as they can afford and crank up the settings as far as they can.
It would be more interesting to see a 4090 max settings versus PS5 Pro video, that would show how much better Sony exclusives could be if you’re enthusiast enough to play on best of the best hardware.
As someone who has a Pro preordered I would want to know if I should keep building a library of Playstation games on Steam or if I should pause that and stick to Pro for now.
This video does nothing for me. I don’t even know who it’s made for. Nobody is ever going to choose between the scenarios shown in the video: 1. PC with console-like settings and manually set dynamic resolutions like on console versus 2. PS5 Pro.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Yeah and Sony had to basically hand AMD the designs they wanted and told AMD to do it and they are the ones who developed PSSR
AMD didn't do shit, they are being given this for free and it's only because Sony had no choice but to do it themselves because AMD were so incompetent
Bojji
Member
Some very obvious differences which somehow DF had failed to recognize.. as usual lol
Are you showing less details of PSSR or more aliasing of DLSS? Both can connected, you can't set sharpening as low as what PSSR have on PC.
If you want to see what technique is more stable look at 10:33 in the vide (timestamped):
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Blurred vs aliased. Pick one.
Some very obvious differences which somehow DF had failed to recognize.. as usual lol
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MazingerDUDE
Member
Except that the sharpening does NOT create aliasing
Just try sharpening PSSR images and see if you get the same aliasing effect,
or try blurring DLSS image and see if the aliasing effects go away
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, I can see the different tones. Nowhere near as big as the sky of the earlier shot, but it’s there. I really need to try this out myself. That can be an important difference. It seems subtle most of the time, but it varies.
Can you see the colour tone differences(orange and blue water under the pipe are the obvious ones) in these closeups from your own posted screengrab? and that's even with an extra half a million more pixels for DLSS3.7 to work with than the last shot analysed at 1584p
MazingerDUDE
Member
Vick
Member
Love how the tail is resolved with PSSR. Looks like real fur in this shot.
True.
We know however a soft image isn't a characteristic nor issue with PSSR:
So the fact it's so clean, and yet able to be pushed so far in terms in sharpness, is a great result imo.
asdasdasdbb
Member
It seems like actual sales top out around the 4070ish range though. Which is not too far off from the Pro?
The CPU is a bigger deal.
Loxus
Member
It's called collaboration.
Remember that Sony is also a hardware company.
Working together to create products is common among these companies.
With your thinking, maybe Sony should just create their own CPU and GPU on their own then.
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Bojji
Member
Except that the sharpening does NOT create aliasing
Just try sharpening PSSR images and see if you get the same aliasing effect,
or try blurring DLSS image and see if the aliasing effects go away
You are talking about sharpening/softening of images. I'm talking about sharpening running real time with DLSS/PSSR.
On PC sharpening cannot be disabled completely, this is something new that Insomniac added with PSSR build (it was there in first showing of the game) - it was in all reconstruction techniques before.
What do you say about image stability and aliasing in 10:33 part of the video?
MazingerDUDE
Member
The most impressive aspect of PSSR is in its ability to remove specular aliasing, giving it almost a prerendered CG look
It shows in the latest Ratchet video all around
ap_puff
Banned
To be honest I didn't expect PSSR to be almost trading blows with DLSS 3.x on its first outing. That's really impressive and I feel like justifies the pro 100%. PC still has the advantage in access to better base settings in most games, but the gap has closed significantly. Kudos, the hardware guys at Sony really cooked with this one.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I don't like being that guy nitpicking at zoomed screenshots. I prefer the look of PSSR in the images you posted, mind you. However, there are some details that straight up disappear. The window panes become much harder to separate as well.it's more like the norm vs sharpened & aliased
Besides, still images conceal the biggest flaw of all upscalers: image stability. If you look at them side-by-side in movement instead of stopping to zoom in on things in the background, that's where the obvious differences manifest themselves. What you're doing is no different than all the people who tried to claim FSR was equal to DLSS by posting screenshots...until we saw them in motion and it wasn't close. PSSR is much better than FSR, but its temporal stability has work to do and that work doesn't show in still images.
As things stand, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find differences at normal viewing distances between PSSR and DLSS, which is all we need. However, both still have issues with temporal stability that can be obvious if you stop for a second.
PaintTinJr
Member
Not really, because the result of those things are in a minification so aliasing is noise, whereas smoothing isn't blurry in minification, it is only blurry in magnification. Here's the most offensive DLSS aliasing giff from above at 50% of the size, and PSSR doesn't look blurry on those offending edges where DLSS is aliasing.
Blank Space Invader
Gold Member
Vick
Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
But then look at the grate while the video is playing and you can see PSSR being much more unstable than DLSS and it's pretty clear.Not really, because the result of those things are in a minification so aliasing is noise, whereas smoothing isn't blurry in minification, it is only blurry in magnification. Here's the most offensive DLSS aliasing giff from above at 50% of the size, and PSSR doesn't look blurry on those offending edges where DLSS is aliasing.
Zathalus
Member
So DLSS in Ratchet appears to have better temporal stability as well as better in image detail, at the cost of having worse stair stepping aliasing compared to PSSR.
Probably the biggest negative of PSSR at the moment is that temporal stability. At least in this specific game.
Probably the biggest negative of PSSR at the moment is that temporal stability. At least in this specific game.
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Bojji
Member
Still images are fucking us up. Look at this, more aliased with DLSS?
On the video (11:48) it's "boiling" on PSSR side, it's very unstable while DLSS is stable:
bitbydeath
Member
What GPU is being compared?
Bojji
Member
It could even be rtx 2060, it's image quality comparison...
PaintTinJr
Member
How? That grate is at an acute angle being anisotropically filtered, so should look like that. where as aliasing even on a still image means there is a base temporal instability in the rendering even if there is no discontinuity popping and fizzing between frames there will be a stair step crawl between frames for every offending aliased edge.
How such aliased imagery can ever be held up as more temporally stable than another with some fizzing on tiny elements is a bit of a can't see wood for the trees faux pas by DF if this imagery is reliable.
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If the aliasing is a consequence of discarding more samples from previous frames, then it may result in more detail, if the samples were "correctly" discarded.Except that the sharpening does NOT create aliasing
Just try sharpening PSSR images and see if you get the same aliasing effect,
or try blurring DLSS image and see if the aliasing effects go away
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bitbydeath
Member
Seems like an important omission for an image quality discussion.
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Bojji
Member
DLSS has the same quality no matter the hardware. GPU is irrelevant here.
PaintTinJr
Member
Still images are fucking us up. Look at this, more aliased with DLSS?
On the video (11:48) it's "boiling" on PSSR side, it's very unstable while DLSS is stable:
I can see far more crawl in the video with DLSS, because it is full length in DLSS.
Zathalus
Member
Still images are fucking us up. Look at this, more aliased with DLSS?
On the video (11:48) it's "boiling" on PSSR side, it's very unstable while DLSS is stable:
Yeah that’s pretty definitive. A still image makes PSSR look better in that particular shot, but the video in motion clearly has DLSS being the winner.
Comparisons should really be done by video in these cases.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I think this is down to sharpening.
But aliased vs more temporal stability looks to be the tradeoff to me.
At TV distances going to be hard to tell. Either way it’s amazing that PSSR is right there with DLSS at its first attempt.
Hopefully they can improve temporal stability over time, although it’s already very good in that aspect
PaintTinJr
Member
How can you not see the aliasing in the DLSS is like a full length saw tooth - as the stills capture? whereas by comparison the PSSR elements move half the length then smoothly disappear.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The grate should fizzle? Are you serious? It fizzles a whole lot with PSSR but barely with DLSS. Hell, you can also look at the flower pots and they also fizzle with PSSR.
Anyway, not particularly interested in this discussion. What I care about is what they look like at a viewing distance in motion, not in zoomed-in stills.
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bitbydeath
Member
So a 2060 looks just as good as a 4090?
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XXL
Member
This in particular is super fucking impressive. Thanks for making these.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Bojji
Member
It can be even seen in gif form:
When it comes to image quality it does, difference is in performance.
Zathalus
Member
The steps have more defined aliasing on the edges but the grates behind them have a crawling artifact that is not present on DLSS.
Hence DLSS having worse aliasing but better temporal stability. It’s extremely obvious for both.
PaintTinJr
Member
It is because without frame-rate, for example a 120fps DLSS render then motion sampled at 60fps would hide more of any unsightly aliasing in motion because the ghosting of the missing frames would hide half the aliasing in motion but wouldn't hide it in stills
Edit:
You can see in the giff there is an animated light that goes up and down showing the PC version frame count per footage is atleast double the Pro frame-rate hiding temporal instability and certainly not a fair comparison for checking such an issue,
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Fess
Member
Who cares? Enthusiast gamers are a tiny percentage of all gamers but those are the only ones who would ever be interested in tiny details like this. And no enthusiast is going to use console settings on PC and manually set dynamic res with some hack app to match what can be found on console. It’s an absurd comparison. So who exactly is this video made for?
Mainstream PC gamers are on lowend RTX 30-serie cards and 1080p screens or laptops. And console mainstream gamers are on base PS5 or PS4 or Switch. They wouldn’t know what to look for here.
I’m not sure even enthusiasts here would spot these dfferences from a normal viewing distance to a couch in a living room.
My thought is this… When 500% zoom and A-B switching gifs and painted circles highlighting where to look is needed… then it’s probably time to exit the thread and go play some games instead.