Support NeoGAF

[Matt]

I'm still floating between GAF and Xbox heavy influenced forum and trying to wrap my head around the "tech" talk.

Basically, I think, what I'm getting from info over thier is that thr Xbox is a balance of components that will, if I'm correct, will make it stronger?
While the PS4 is unbalanced with power in some parts but weak in others, there for making it unbalanced and in reality weaker.

I heard them refer to it as using a powerful hammer to swat flys instead or a fly swatter, or in terms of horspower in a car as a metaphor. ..saying as they go faster the PS4 actually loses power due to bottlenecks..

Is this nonsense? What exactly is the bottom line between these two?

This is pure insanity.

The PS4 is a good deal stronger then the XBO. Period.

 

[user8503492]

The Xbox heavy influence site I've been frequenting is an offshoot of a now defunct TeamXbox forums
www.unionvgf.com is the site

I've been reading post such as...

It confirmed basically everything I've said for the past 6 months and I've been viewed as very, very "optimistic" when it comes to my expectations for X1's hardware design and engineering. So does it change anything? That depends. It's not like MS changed their design since we last heard about up clocks, but we are finally getting confirmations for their decisions, motivations, goals, and priorities and that info collided violently with thee perspective of the vast majority of forum dwellers who had assumed (ignorantly) that MS's design was lacking in both power and intelligent engineering design. Those ppl would be eating heaps of crow now, had they the intellectual honesty to admit the arguments they had invested the past 6 months into peddling were entirely wrong in just about every detail imaginable. Alas, ppl on the internet aren't so bashful nor so honest, so you instead see ppl dismissing the info as PR, marketing, corporate shills, propaganda, desperate damage control, etc. In reality, X1's design has COMPLETELY nullified (and then some) Sony's decision to go with 8GB of GDDR5 RAM in PS4. The info about a 6.625% clock boost being more of a gain in actual game performance than adding 2 CU's is interesting though. It may allow us to put an upper bound on the flops each CU above 14 in PS4 offers to devs running actual game code. If for every pair of CU's you add the performance gain is only equivalent to another 53MHz on the GPU side then that amounts to something like a 20% gap in raw spec (ignoring literally everything else X1 has going for it in terms of helper hardware). It'd offer a clue to Sony's dev doc info about the 14/4 setup too.

and...

Microsoft's Techs found that more CUs doesn't necessarily improve performance. They realised that multicore processors have problems with getting full performance with more CUs. So, instead of adding more CUs, they actually locked 2 CUs, and overclocked the GPU by 6.6%. Sony having more CUs doesn't naturally equate to better performance. As stated, multicore processors have complications with more CUs, regardless of the ROPs. In other words, the more CUs you have, the more problems you have. Sony has more CUs, therefore, it goes to say, they have more problems utilising the direct benefits of those additional CUs. Another thing to consider is, the Xbox CPU is faster than the PS4's, and it also doesn't have to do any audio processing, which the PS4 does. Also, the Xbox One's multitasking does not affect allocated DDR3 RAM, there are processes and other RAM on the board for that purpose. In other words, reading the specs alone won't give you a real idea of efficiency. The PS4 may have higher specs, but the Xbox One is more efficient.

and you, this thread, well you guys in general are pretty famous over their lol

The Gaf thread on this is full of idiots. You can tell the tech guys stayed away from this thread like the plague which tells me they have nothing to go against it.

Every 3rd post mentions GAF lol

 

[KMS]

If someone claims either system is unbalanced then you should ask them which part of the system is weaker and holding the rest of the system back. Just cause they say it don't mean it's true. Though I can see games a few years from now that are more GPU compute intensive having problems on the xbox as the GPU compute performance becomes a bottleneck for the system. As of today I don't really see either system having a problem with bottlenecks for games of today.

 

[Nightengale]

Xbox One is a strong console. It is balanced.

PS4 is a stronger console. It is balanced.

From a hardware standpoint, Xbox One has some advantages over PS4, but PS4 has significantly more advantages.

Tldr; PS4 is stronger than Xbox One.

 

[SwiftDeath]

This is pure insanity.

The PS4 is a good deal stronger then the XBO. Period.

As expected

Nice to have confirmation

 

[Hynad]

Hi!

One thing that's been bothering me with all those specs talk on MS side is that people assume that because MS say they achieved a balance with their engineering, it somehow means that the PS4 isn't balanced...

MS: "Hey guys! Our console is balanced!"

XBO fans: "Oh! So that means the PS4 isn't!"

--> *insert any facepalm gif you can think of *

 

[CLEEK]

I'm still floating between GAF and Xbox heavy influenced forum and trying to wrap my head around the "tech" talk.

Basically, I think, what I'm getting from info over thier is that thr Xbox is a balance of components that will, if I'm correct, will make it stronger?
While the PS4 is unbalanced with power in some parts but weak in others, there for making it unbalanced and in reality weaker.

I heard them refer to it as using a powerful hammer to swat flys instead or a fly swatter, or in terms of horspower in a car as a metaphor. ..saying as they go faster the PS4 actually loses power due to bottlenecks..

Is this nonsense? What exactly is the bottom line between these two?

Disregard the term 'balance'. It is meaningless. It's used is just there to seed the doubt that the PS4 is somehow unbalanced. It's not a technical term, just a carefully selected marketing one. And the Xbone is the more complicated design, due to its RAM.

The PS4 trumps the Xbone is all areas. It has a single pool of fast unified RAM. The Xbone as its main slow RAM, and a small chunk of fast RAM. Devs have to juggle what goes where, and as per the OP, are finding this to be a pain a big bottleneck.

The PS4 has 50% more CUs (the 'cores' of the GPU). With the recent 6% clock increase of the Xbone, this means that the peak performance of the PS4 is 40-50% more than the Xbone.

The PS4 has custom made chnages to its GPU to give it far more GPGPU capabilities. The PS4 has 8 ACEs (the things that manage GPGPU requests) and 64 queues (not to mention 18 CUs capable of running GPGPU). The Xbone has the standard AMD number of 2 ACEs and 2 queues, with only 14 CUs to run GPGPU on.

Many folks, from Cerny to devs, have said that making use of GPGPU will be the main thing that drives improvements this gen. The PS4 has significantly more room to grow.

The PS4 also has modifications to make sure it is hUMA compliant. The Xbone does not (nor could it, with having two pools of RAM). hUMA is the big direction that AMD have been heading towards.

Both consoles have a bunch of other DSPs for things like audio, decompression and security.

Multiple sources have said the PS4 is easier to develop for. Not only because it has ~50% more horsepower. Having one unified pool of RAM cuts out the need for devs to micro-manage what goes where, removing a big bottleneck (the same bottleneck the PS3 suffered with its two pools of RAM this gen).

Once Xbone devs get better that managing eSRAM and main RAM, there will be improvements and the days of sub-1080p games should be over. But the Xbone has far less customisation than the PS4, with less focus on GPGPU for long term gains.

Both consoles will see improvements over the coming years, but there is more untapped performance in the PS4 than in the Xbone.

Microsoft's Techs found that more CUs doesn't necessarily improve performance. They realised that multicore processors have problems with getting full performance with more CUs. So, instead of adding more CUs, they actually locked 2 CUs, and overclocked the GPU by 6.6%. Sony having more CUs doesn't naturally equate to better performance. As stated, multicore processors have complications with more CUs, regardless of the ROPs. In other words, the more CUs you have, the more problems you have. Sony has more CUs, therefore, it goes to say, they have more problems utilising the direct benefits of those additional CUs. Another thing to consider is, the Xbox CPU is faster than the PS4's, and it also doesn't have to do any audio processing, which the PS4 does. Also, the Xbox One's multitasking does not affect allocated DDR3 RAM, there are processes and other RAM on the board for that purpose. In other words, reading the specs alone won't give you a real idea of efficiency. The PS4 may have higher specs, but the Xbox One is more efficient.

There is a misunderstanding around what MS were saying around CUs. MS were trying to play of the fact that the PS4 have 50% more CUs by saying that power doesn't scale linearly with CUs. So the PS4 with 50% more CUs might only get 25% more performance in real gaming applications. But that's still 25%! Pretty massive, and more likely to be higher.

You don't have 'more problems' with more CUs. Adding more CUs is how you get different spec AMD cards in PCs. At a basic level, the more CUs, the more power. It just doesn't scale 1:1, but more is always better as far as performance goes. MS claimed that a slight clock bump was more benefital than enabling the two disabled CUs, but they were probably never in the position to enable them anyway, unless every single Xbone off the production like was tested to have 14 working CUs. Unlikely, as they had two spare to improve yields (an APU can be made with two faulty CUs and the chip still passes - it only needs 12 working).

 

[Felsparrow]

Then actual developers, and not a bunch of random techs say that the PS4 is more powerful, then you know there's something. That is what is currently happening.

That means actual developers, who have to make use of a console's power, are actually finding it.

A bunch of people on a forum, over there, or even here, won't matter as much as developers.

This is not to say that the XB1 will be horrible, it's still a huge jump from the 360 and still better than PCs of the same price point.

 

[Phreak47]

Let's just tell them all to let their first party titles do the talking and we'll all be winners.

That said: I'm on the PS4 train.

 

[spisho]

But it's still limited to the ram amounts (256mb each). It's a similar issue to the Esram (can be super fast but it's still limited to 32mb. Comparatively the 360 has a unified ram set up of just a full 512mb GDDR3 plus the 10mb faster Edram.

RSX can read and write to both pools so it's 512 minus what's reserved by the OS. Cell can access both memory pools but in reality it's limited to XDR due to slow read and write to gddr3.

Point is the gpu isn't limited to 22.4 GB/s read+write. It has 44.4 GB/s read and 37.4 GB/s write to a total 512mb of memory.

 

[USC-fan]

This is pure insanity.

The PS4 is a good deal stronger then the XBO. Period.

Boom goes the dynamite.

Thanks for confirming.

 

[nib95]

RSX can read and write to both pools so it's 512 minus what's reserved by the OS. Cell can access both memory pools but in reality it's limited to XDR due to slow read and write to gddr3.

Point is the gpu isn't limited to 22.4 GB/s read+write. It has 44.4 GB/s read and 37.4 GB/s write to a total 512mb of memory.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[onQ123]

Nope, see Bonaire.

Who is to say that Bonaire chips are not made using the clusters that fell short of one CU?

isn't that how this work?

cluster of 4 CU's 1 CU fail us it in a GPU that can use a number of CU's that isn't a multiple of 4 like 14?

think about Bonaire it showed up after all the other GPU's was out, chances are that was because they where being made with the lift over clusters that didn't have all 4 CU's working.

but for something like the PS4 you can't depend on left over clusters with 2 CU's broke so you get all clusters of 4 but you set a limit of only needing 18 CU's so if they are clusters coming up short you can still use them.

 

[SwiftDeath]

The Xbox heavy influence site I've been frequenting is an offshoot of a now defunct TeamXbox forums
www.unionvgf.com is the site

I've been reading post such as..

and...

and you, this thread, well you guys in general are pretty famous over their lol

Every 3rd post mentions GAF lol

Wow that site is mental

It literally has the opposite consensus as what GAF has almost entirely

There were posts that described PS4's memory solution as being reactionary and that with the GDDR5 Sony would have to be playing catch up the entire gen

It's hilarious

 

[onQ123]

Hi!

One thing that's been bothering me with all those specs talk on MS side is that people assume that because MS say they achieved a balance with their engineering, it somehow means that the PS4 isn't balanced...

MS: "Hey guys! Our console is balanced!"

XBO fans: "Oh! So that means the PS4 isn't!"

--> *insert any facepalm gif you can think of *

That's the plan.

 

[nib95]

Disregard the term 'balance'. It is meaningless. It's used is just there to seed the doubt that the PS4 is somehow unbalanced. It's not a technical term, just a carefully selected marketing one. And the Xbone is the more complicated design, due to its RAM.

The PS4 trumps the Xbone is all areas. It has a single pool of fast unified RAM. The Xbone as its main slow RAM, and a small chunk of fast RAM. Devs have to juggle what goes where, and as per the OP, are finding this to be a pain a big bottleneck.

The PS4 has 50% more CUs (the 'cores' of the GPU). With the recent 6% clock increase of the Xbone, this means that the peak performance of the PS4 is 40-50% more than the Xbone.

The PS4 has custom made chnages to its GPU to give it far more GPGPU capabilities. The PS4 has 8 ACEs (the things that manage GPGPU requests) and 64 queues (not to mention 18 CUs capable of running GPGPU). The Xbone has the standard AMD number of 2 ACEs and 2 queues, with only 14 CUs to run GPGPU on.

Many folks, from Cerny to devs, have said that making use of GPGPU will be the main thing that drives improvements this gen. The PS4 has significantly more room to grow.

The PS4 also has modifications to make sure it is hUMA compliant. The Xbone does not (nor could it, with having two pools of RAM). hUMA is the big direction that AMD have been heading towards.

Both consoles have a bunch of other DSPs for things like audio, decompression and security.

Multiple sources have said the PS4 is easier to develop for. Not only because it has ~50% more horsepower. Having one unified pool of RAM cuts out the need for devs to micro-manage what goes where, removing a big bottleneck (the same bottleneck the PS3 suffered with its two pools of RAM this gen).

Once Xbone devs get better that managing eSRAM and main RAM, there will be improvements and the days of sub-1080p games should be over. But the Xbone has far less customisation than the PS4, with less focus on GPGPU for long term gains.

Both consoles will see improvements over the coming years, but there is more untapped performance in the PS4 than in the Xbone.



There is a misunderstanding around what MS were saying around CUs. MS were trying to play of the fact that the PS4 have 50% more CUs by saying that power doesn't scale linearly with CUs. So the PS4 with 50% more CUs might only get 25% more performance in real gaming applications. But that's still 25%! Pretty massive, and more likely to be higher.

You don't have 'more problems' with more CUs. Adding more CUs is how you get different spec AMD cards in PCs. At a basic level, the more CUs, the more power. It just doesn't scale 1:1, but more is always better as far as performance goes. MS claimed that a slight clock bump was more benefital than enabling the two disabled CUs, but they were probably never in the position to enable them anyway, unless every single Xbone off the production like was tested to have 14 working CUs. Unlikely, as they had two spare to improve yields (an APU can be made with two faulty CUs and the chip still passes - it only needs 12 working).

Great post. Saved for future posterity. Actually a good summary of the differences including those of the customisations.

 

[Zen]

The Xbox heavy influence site I've been frequenting is an offshoot of a now defunct TeamXbox forums
www.unionvgf.com is the site

I've been reading post such as...



and...



and you, this thread, well you guys in general are pretty famous over their lol



Every 3rd post mentions GAF lol

Best not to pay attention to what remains of the rejects from TXB. They've always been incredibly self conscious and jealous of GAF, odd as that sounds. I still remember the random irrational hate threads that use to pop up and stay open for a while for no reason, complete with people like Xmun saying 'They're all so crabby since the PS3 came out, oh well we'll never be like them, our superior culture and OT forum ensure it'.

They also cited their 'superior user count' by citing their total registered users (ignoring that Gaf creamed them in total online and guests as well as the fact that they did not routinely cull old accounts like gaf does). I'm sure there are stilla few good people who post there, but generally cooler heads eventually went elsewhere (paging Speevy).

 

[Sword Of Doom]

This part I personally think is just blatant common sense, and people have been fighting this basic notion forever on here, suggesting what is and isn't possible, and here it is straight from the horses mouth restating what other much less technically proficient posters have been saying on here forever. ESRAM is but a basic extension of EDRAM on the Xbox 360, and just like they designed EDRAM to work well with system memory on the Xbox 360, they did the same yet again with the Xbox One, only there are less limitations compared to eDRAM.



But, you know, these guys don't know what they're talking about and are just spreading PR lies.



Nobody complains when he writes fantastic articles on the PS4, also largely accepting what he is told with fairly unquestioning acceptance. This fantastic article about the crew port to PS4 was also written by Richard Leadbetter, and many more articles that I'm feeling too lazy to bother go looking up.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

Where's the controversy about his motives when he does things like this? And these literally aren't the only fantastic articles this guy has on or relating to the PS4. Anyway, that's enough about this. You guys can carry on. Forgot how hardcore this thread was.

People agree with whatever makes sense to them. It's cheap and unfair to say that people agree with and praise everything that shines a positive light on the PS4. I think a lot of people on gaf make informed and legitimate arguments.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

The Xbox heavy influence site I've been frequenting is an offshoot of a now defunct TeamXbox forums
www.unionvgf.com is the site

I've been reading post such as...



and...



and you, this thread, well you guys in general are pretty famous over their lol



Every 3rd post mentions GAF lol

The fact that they're still clinging to 14+4 which has been debunked shows those shills are full of bullshit. Not that I would expect less from a bunch of teamxbox rejects.

 

[Zen]

Disregard the term 'balance'. It is meaningless. It's used is just there to seed the doubt that the PS4 is somehow unbalanced. It's not a technical term, just a carefully selected marketing one. And the Xbone is the more complicated design, due to its RAM.

The PS4 trumps the Xbone is all areas. It has a single pool of fast unified RAM. The Xbone as its main slow RAM, and a small chunk of fast RAM. Devs have to juggle what goes where, and as per the OP, are finding this to be a pain a big bottleneck.

The PS4 has 50% more CUs (the 'cores' of the GPU). With the recent 6% clock increase of the Xbone, this means that the peak performance of the PS4 is 40-50% more than the Xbone.

The PS4 has custom made chnages to its GPU to give it far more GPGPU capabilities. The PS4 has 8 ACEs (the things that manage GPGPU requests) and 64 queues (not to mention 18 CUs capable of running GPGPU). The Xbone has the standard AMD number of 2 ACEs and 2 queues, with only 14 CUs to run GPGPU on.

Many folks, from Cerny to devs, have said that making use of GPGPU will be the main thing that drives improvements this gen. The PS4 has significantly more room to grow.

The PS4 also has modifications to make sure it is hUMA compliant. The Xbone does not (nor could it, with having two pools of RAM). hUMA is the big direction that AMD have been heading towards.

Both consoles have a bunch of other DSPs for things like audio, decompression and security.

Multiple sources have said the PS4 is easier to develop for. Not only because it has ~50% more horsepower. Having one unified pool of RAM cuts out the need for devs to micro-manage what goes where, removing a big bottleneck (the same bottleneck the PS3 suffered with its two pools of RAM this gen).

Once Xbone devs get better that managing eSRAM and main RAM, there will be improvements and the days of sub-1080p games should be over. But the Xbone has far less customisation than the PS4, with less focus on GPGPU for long term gains.

Both consoles will see improvements over the coming years, but there is more untapped performance in the PS4 than in the Xbone.



There is a misunderstanding around what MS were saying around CUs. MS were trying to play of the fact that the PS4 have 50% more CUs by saying that power doesn't scale linearly with CUs. So the PS4 with 50% more CUs might only get 25% more performance in real gaming applications. But that's still 25%! Pretty massive, and more likely to be higher.

You don't have 'more problems' with more CUs. Adding more CUs is how you get different spec AMD cards in PCs. At a basic level, the more CUs, the more power. It just doesn't scale 1:1, but more is always better as far as performance goes. MS claimed that a slight clock bump was more benefital than enabling the two disabled CUs, but they were probably never in the position to enable them anyway, unless every single Xbone off the production like was tested to have 14 working CUs. Unlikely, as they had two spare to improve yields (an APU can be made with two faulty CUs and the chip still passes - it only needs 12 working).

Not to mention that we've had reports from saying that the performance gap between the two consoles is even bigger than they thought it would be thanks to huma.

 

[thunder_snail]

The Xbox heavy influence site I've been frequenting is an offshoot of a now defunct TeamXbox forums
www.unionvgf.com is the site

Microsoft's Techs found that more CUs doesn't necessarily improve performance. They realised that multicore processors have problems with getting full performance with more CUs. So, instead of adding more CUs, they actually locked 2 CUs, and overclocked the GPU by 6.6%. Sony having more CUs doesn't naturally equate to better performance. As stated, multicore processors have complications with more CUs, regardless of the ROPs. In other words, the more CUs you have, the more problems you have. Sony has more CUs, therefore, it goes to say, they have more problems utilising the direct benefits of those additional CUs. Another thing to consider is, the Xbox CPU is faster than the PS4's, and it also doesn't have to do any audio processing, which the PS4 does. Also, the Xbox One's multitasking does not affect allocated DDR3 RAM, there are processes and other RAM on the board for that purpose. In other words, reading the specs alone won't give you a real idea of efficiency. The PS4 may have higher specs, but the Xbox One is more efficient.

The guy who posted that should ask himself why amd and nvidia insist on increasing the number of their CU/stream processors instead of raising the clock. Not even gonna comment on the parts about the ram allocation and audio.

It confirmed basically everything I've said for the past 6 months and I've been viewed as very, very "optimistic" when it comes to my expectations for X1's hardware design and engineering. So does it change anything? That depends. It's not like MS changed their design since we last heard about up clocks, but we are finally getting confirmations for their decisions, motivations, goals, and priorities and that info collided violently with thee perspective of the vast majority of forum dwellers who had assumed (ignorantly) that MS's design was lacking in both power and intelligent engineering design. Those ppl would be eating heaps of crow now, had they the intellectual honesty to admit the arguments they had invested the past 6 months into peddling were entirely wrong in just about every detail imaginable. Alas, ppl on the internet aren't so bashful nor so honest, so you instead see ppl dismissing the info as PR, marketing, corporate shills, propaganda, desperate damage control, etc. In reality, X1's design has COMPLETELY nullified (and then some) Sony's decision to go with 8GB of GDDR5 RAM in PS4. The info about a 6.625% clock boost being more of a gain in actual game performance than adding 2 CU's is interesting though. It may allow us to put an upper bound on the flops each CU above 14 in PS4 offers to devs running actual game code. If for every pair of CU's you add the performance gain is only equivalent to another 53MHz on the GPU side then that amounts to something like a 20% gap in raw spec (ignoring literally everything else X1 has going for it in terms of helper hardware). It'd offer a clue to Sony's dev doc info about the 14/4 setup too.

LOL. This writing style reminds me of someone else on gaf.

 

[SkoomaSuckinSwit]

The Xbox heavy influence site I've been frequenting is an offshoot of a now defunct TeamXbox forums
www.unionvgf.com is the site

TXB should have just went quietly into the night after this year's E3. The place has been on a downward slope since the Shockwave exodus, with the forum splitting off into a couple different new forums. TXB remained, gimped without proper mod controls, flooded with spam that had to be deleted on a case-by-case basis, afaik. No idea why IGN never pulled the plug on the forum; they probably forgot about it.

Right at E3 when MS took a crushing blow from Sony, all of a sudden the TXB forum was jumping with new members who were White Knighting XboxOne, no matter how bad contrary evidence was presented. You got your obvious stand-outs like Astrograd there, who's been laughed off B3R and even by TXB mods for his BS posts. Other forum-goers like McMasters don't even try to disguise the fact they are MS shills, and like clockwork every other post is copy/pasted right from their Xbox PR script sheets.

Smell the Gaf fear on this page: http://www.unionvgf.com/index.php?threads/the-xbox-one-thread.2/page-20

Tis a sad place, heavily in denial. Hopefully the mods will give the place an enema, and rid itself of the phony gamers there.

 

[artist]

Who is to say that Bonaire chips are not made using the clusters that fell short of one CU?

isn't that how this work?

cluster of 4 CU's 1 CU fail us it in a GPU that can use a number of CU's that isn't a multiple of 4 like 14?

No, Bonaire in it's full configuration has 14CUs.

think about Bonaire it showed up after all the other GPU's was out, chances are that was because they where being made with the lift over clusters that didn't have all 4 CU's working.

but for something like the PS4 you can't depend on left over clusters with 2 CU's broke so you get all clusters of 4 but you set a limit of only needing 18 CU's so if they are clusters coming up short you can still use them.

Bonaire is a separate (new) ASIC, it's not made up of "leftovers" from the other older ones.

 

[nib95]

Wow, read through some of that forum thread. The incompetence of some of their users is mind numbing lol. So much BS being peddled. Anything above 14 CU's is pointless, GDDR5 is a bad thing, and even basic things like this are utter tripe. Some of these users have to be people who have been banned from GAF for their incompetence, hence the massive grudge.

Even that CBOAT guy who is supposedly some heralded insider guy had an insider tip way back saying online would be free for PS4. Nope. You need to buy PS+

I've heard this being repeated over and over on Reddit, this other forum etc. It's NOT true. Read his thread, he said he doesn't know if Sony would charge or not.

Here's the actual quotes.

onlingamingpayo.w.-allklk for Sony? ahha nope.noconfirm

sonty rapped up tighterrea than Virgin mosquito when on drm istuf. Frustartin!g myinfogloves!

Crazy how some of these warriors resort to flat out lies and misinformation to champion their point. It's the Fox news or Stormfront of gaming threads over in that forum.

 

[artist]

LOL. This writing style reminds me of someone else on gaf.

 

[SwiftDeath]

TXB should have just went quietly into the night after this year's E3. The place has been on a downward slope since the Shockwave exodus, with the forum splitting off into a couple different new forums. TXB remained, gimped without proper mod controls, flooded with spam that had to be deleted on a case-by-case basis, afaik. No idea why IGN never pulled the plug on the forum; they probably forgot about it.

Right at E3 when MS took a crushing blow from Sony, all of a sudden the TXB forum was jumping with new members who were White Knighting XboxOne, no matter how bad contrary evidence was presented. You got your obvious stand-outs like Astrograd there, who's been laughed off B3R and even by TXB mods for his BS posts. Other forum-goers like McMasters don't even try to disguise the fact they are MS shills, and like clockwork every other post is copy/pasted right from their Xbox PR script sheets.

Smell the Gaf fear on this page: http://www.unionvgf.com/index.php?threads/the-xbox-one-thread.2/page-20

Tis a sad place, heavily in denial. Hopefully the mods will give the place an enema, and rid itself of the phony gamers there.

What stood out to me from my brief glimpse into that nest of misinformation was the idea that MGSV has been shown on Xbox One

Is that true? I haven't heard anything about that yet?

Wow, read through some of that forum thread. The incompetence of some of their users is mind numbing lol. So much BS being peddled. Anything above 14 CU's is pointless, GDDR5 is a bad thing, and even basic things like this are utter tripe. Some of these users have to be people who have been banned from GAF for their incompetence, hence the massive grudge.
.

I loved this post

So true.

But wait a minute. The second DF released that article a month ago trying to compare X1 to PS4 using comparable PC rigs to guess the performance, the "PS4-ish PC rig" did much better.

Notice how all the "MS pays off DF" and "Leadbetter is on the MS payroll" threads and posts disappeared. And how loved that article was by Sony fans.

What a laugh.

It's so good because we ripped that apart for not being accurate to the real difference even if the PS4 was shown to be more powerful

Who was using that leadbetter article to show the PS4 was more powerful?

Specs still speak for themselves

 

[SwiftDeath]

double post my bad

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I'm surprised--nay, SHOCKED!--that SenjutsuSage (of all people!) is coming to Leadbetter's defense as NeoGAFers accusing him of shilling for Microsoft here.

LOL.

Spoiler

more predictable than tomorrow's sunrise

 

[Kuro]

What bottlenecks does the PS4 have that the XB1 does not?

I have yet to hear any clear advantage the XB1 has architecture-wise over the PS4

The peaks of memory bandwidth perhaps?

Has there been any breakdown given as to what percentage of the time XB1's memory bandwidth will be usable at any specific bandwidth?

I know PS4's is supposedly at least 140GB/s at any given time

Other than that I fail to grasp any other real advantages the XB1's architecture truly has

PS4's bandwidth is actually consistently at around 170GB/s

 

[nib95]

What stood out to me from my brief glimpse into that nest of misinformation was the idea that MGSV has been shown on Xbox One

Is that true? I haven't heard anything about that yet?

I believe Kojima mentioned it was running on a PC with similar specs to an Xbox One, but not on an actual XO or a dev kit itself. I can't find the link itself but it was posted on these forums around that time.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

What stood out to me from my brief glimpse into that nest of misinformation was the idea that MGSV has been shown on Xbox One

Is that true? I haven't heard anything about that yet?

mgsV was shown running on pcs. first with ps4 controller, then with xbox 1 controller.

if you would have actually clicked on the thread instead of just reading the title you would have seen people actually were questioning if it was actually xb1 or pc.

 

[onQ123]

No, Bonaire in it's full configuration has 14CUs.


Bonaire is a separate (new) ASIC, it's not made up of "leftovers" from the other older ones.

I know it's 14 I'm saying that it could be using the clusters that came up short one CU.


so 2 full clusters plus 2 clusters that came up short of 1 CU = the 3 CU clusters not going to waste & a new line of GCN GPU's.

 

[skdoo]

This is still going on? Leadbetter, Penello and the rest of MS PR can try to twist words like "balanced" and "cloud" and such as much as they like. A first grader with the ability to add numbers knows that the PS4 is not only more powerful, but by a comfortable margin.

Add ease of development to it, and are we really still discussing this?

 

[SwiftDeath]

I believe Kojima mentioned it was running on a PC with similar specs to an Xbox One, but not on an actual XO or a dev kit itself. I can't find the link itself but it was posted on these forums around that time.

Thanks I saw the thread but have yet to look into it

I had thought it was running on a PC though but you never know

mgsV was shown running on pcs. first with ps4 controller, then with xbox 1 controller.

if you would have actually clicked on the thread instead of just reading the title you would have seen people actually were questioning if it was actually xb1 or pc.

My bad then I didn't read the thread on here about it

I saw it used as a defense against the power difference but seems like it was the same machine (PC) and different controllers

This was on that team xbox offshoot site btw not from a thread on here

Also I feel this post really didn't get the attention it deserves considering the poster

This is pure insanity.

The PS4 is a good deal stronger then the XBO. Period.

 

[badb0y]

The Xbox heavy influence site I've been frequenting is an offshoot of a now defunct TeamXbox forums
www.unionvgf.com is the site

I've been reading post such as...



and...



and you, this thread, well you guys in general are pretty famous over their lol



Every 3rd post mentions GAF lol

Thank you so much, you have provided me with a never ending stream of entertainment.

 

[Zen]

TXB should have just went quietly into the night after this year's E3. The place has been on a downward slope since the Shockwave exodus, with the forum splitting off into a couple different new forums. TXB remained, gimped without proper mod controls, flooded with spam that had to be deleted on a case-by-case basis, afaik. No idea why IGN never pulled the plug on the forum; they probably forgot about it.

Right at E3 when MS took a crushing blow from Sony, all of a sudden the TXB forum was jumping with new members who were White Knighting XboxOne, no matter how bad contrary evidence was presented. You got your obvious stand-outs like Astrograd there, who's been laughed off B3R and even by TXB mods for his BS posts. Other forum-goers like McMasters don't even try to disguise the fact they are MS shills, and like clockwork every other post is copy/pasted right from their Xbox PR script sheets.

Smell the Gaf fear on this page: http://www.unionvgf.com/index.php?threads/the-xbox-one-thread.2/page-20

Tis a sad place, heavily in denial. Hopefully the mods will give the place an enema, and rid itself of the phony gamers there.

Wow, read through some of that forum thread. The incompetence of some of their users is mind numbing lol. So much BS being peddled. Anything above 14 CU's is pointless, GDDR5 is a bad thing, and even basic things like this are utter tripe. Some of these users have to be people who have been banned from GAF for their incompetence, hence the massive grudge.

The community has been skidding closer and closer to Opa-Ages for a long time now. I took a look as said thread, why bother refuting anything or any well constructed arguments when you can just post 'lol hive mind'.

 

[Biker19]

I'm surprised--nay, SHOCKED!--that SenjutsuSage (of all people!) is coming to Leadbetter's defense as NeoGAFers accusing him of shilling for Microsoft here.

LOL.

SenjutsuSage has always been defending Microsoft & has always been a big Xbox fanboy.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!! *bellyache*

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

This is pure insanity.

The PS4 is a good deal stronger then the XBO. Period.

Welp.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

The community has been skidding closer and closer to Opa-Ages for a long time now. I took a look as said thread, why bother refuting anything or any well constructed arguments when you can just post 'lol hive mind'.

opa-ages is pro sony. gaf has more in common with it.

though they hate gaf too.

so it's a triangle really haha.

 

[badb0y]

Is Matt an insider? Sorry I'm new here.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Is Matt an insider? Sorry I'm new here.

yes.

Edit: And he doesn't post too frequently, so for him to come out and call utter bullshit out on something carries some weight.

 

[onQ123]

Is Matt an insider? Sorry I'm new here.

Wait what you're not the same Badboy that been here for years?

And yes Matt is a insider.

 

[SwiftDeath]

yes.

Edit: And he doesn't post too frequently, so for him to come out and call utter bullshit out on something carries some weight.

I believe he's a third-party dev who works with both the XB1 and PS4, right?

At least that was my impression

Would certainly be the person in the best position to tell us

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Simple, it would probably be incredibly invasive and risky, bordering on stupid levels of experimentation at a time when you need certainty, particularly with all the hard won optimizations AMD has done to modify and improve those TMUs from Cypress to Cayman, and to where they now find themselves with their latest architectures. Don't rock the boat, just go the safer route and put in place separate dedicated hardware to handle that. Let the TMUs do what they do best.

This would be almost akin to when AMD experimented with changes to VLIW5 when they went to VLIW4. They actually ended up limiting their shader processors (Correction: their SIMDs) in some very important ways with that decision, even hurting their transcendental performance. They spent time on that, even dedicating their driver teams to working up solutions for that, and they abandoned it immediately in their follow-up architecture. Hard not to see that as valuable time wasted. Microsoft worked with AMD directly. AMD likely wasn't eager to repeat their Cayman mistakes on as important a project as the one they were working on with Microsoft. According to Dave Baumann, a project worth upwards of, I think, $3 billion to AMD.

Ha, so funny you had no idea how to answer this earlier, now hours later you hit back with some quickly-read web information and an info dump, David Brent-style.

 

[vpance]

Welp.

And we never needed insiders to confirm that fact. You knew it from looking at the specs which have been staring us in the face since Jan and been made official since the MS May reveal.

 

[badb0y]

Wait what you're not the same Badboy that been her for years?

And yes Matt is a insider.

Nope lol, just joined a few months back.

 

[Radec]

Also I feel this post really didn't get the attention it deserves considering the poster

Been seeing people quote him for awhile now, who is he btw?

 

[TheCloser]

Ha, so funny you had no idea how to answer this earlier, now hours later you hit back with some quickly-read web information and an info dump, David Brent-style.

Hey bro, at least he's learning something new in the process.

 

[jayu26]

This is pure insanity.

The PS4 is a good deal stronger then the XBO. Period.

Boom!

BTW, this truly is an epic thread.