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[AppleMIX]

David Jaffe's youtube video defending his position.

Oh wow this thread got interesting, watching.

 

[Zelias]

Disgusting. Both the harassment and the attempted victim blaming.

But if his apology is sincere and he's willing to change he should be given a chance to change. Given his history though, he sounds like a prize creeper.

 

[mechphree]

Hmm. I'm a bit firey so I usually take the direct approach. Cruel to be kind. I don't like unsaid bullshit hanging in the air.

But I'm not a woman so I don't know what it's like to be on that side.



Dude no offence, but I don't think any degree makes you know more about what it's like to cop sexism or racism. You've experienced racism, so have I, that's different. It sucks.

I wasn't trying to sound "high and mighty" if I was forgive me. I only meant that most people who aren't effected by sexism or racism and have studied it don't really have a deeper knowledge about it if it doesn't effect them.

People who don't have to deal with it can casually blow it off like its a no issue. If this guy was saying racist remarks would we be so quick to forgive him because of his brother and him being a alcoholic? No.

People are "blaming the victim" as if the guy who perpetrated those remarks is not at fault. Using the excuse of depression to be extremely vulgar and perverted is shameful at best, or trying to scape goat it as a "mentally disability ".

 

[Devolution]

I experienced harrassment and stalking from a coworker and it got to the point that I just blatantly said "Leave me the fuck alone. It's done.", even though I knew it would affect my job. Is it easier for men in that regard?

Depends. Stalking is pretty much a shit deal for all genders. But in some ways the cards are stacked against women in terms of violence and scale of force, yes.

I am a woman yes.

 

[JDSN]

Pretty sure people are arguing it shouldn't be put out there partly because it is bad.

But do people (including you) understand the full gravity of the situation if part of their reaction was "Oh id had done that shit different"? Honestly, saying that just reeks of apathy and a fundamental blindness on how woman constantly deal with sexual harassment and the realistic possibility that someone that is supposed to support her will criticize the way she handled herself or imply that she instigated this behavior by not filling an arbitrary checklist so now it can enter on a definition of sexual harassment.

Now, would I have done the same as her? No, because im a dude, because I dont get sexual harassed, because im sure that my boss and human resources has my full backing if I speak up, because the indsutry I work for doesn't try to hide that under the table nor has followers that also insist it must remain hidden. But still I cant criticize her for handling it the way she did, because im not her.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

If this guy was saying racist remarks would we be so quick to forgive him because of his brother and him being a alcoholic? No.

Depends on the nature of those racist remarks. If it was an, "Oh, you read so well for a black girl," we might be more inclined to forgive and then educate because they probably thought they were being nice. It doesn't look like this chap had mean-spirited intentions, since he probably had an actual intention to make her feel euphoric with his mad tongue skills, but is an extremely poor judge of social boundaries.

 

[runnin_blue]

Depends. Stalking is pretty much a shit deal for all genders. But in some ways the cards are stacked against women in terms of violence and scale of force, yes.

I am a woman yes.

To clarify, by "stalking" I meant incessant text messages and phone calls, not physically.

I guess you are right. Though a lot of people don't realise that men can get it too, but it sucks and I can only imagine what it must be like for woman sometimes. Why do some people have to be such wanks.

 

[Prophet Steve]

Depends on the nature of those racist remarks. If it was an, "Oh, you read so well for a black girl," we might be more inclined to forgive and then educate because they probably thought they were being nice. It doesn't look like this chap had mean-spirited intentions, since he probably had an actual intention to make her feel euphoric with his mad tongue skills, but is an extremely poor judge of social boundaries.

I kind of doubt he was intending this to be for her happiness rather than his.

 

[mechphree]

Depends on the nature of those racist remarks. If it was an, "Oh, you read so well for a black girl," we might be more inclined to forgive and then educate because they probably thought they were being nice. It doesn't look like this chap had mean-spirited intentions, since he probably had an actual intention to make her feel euphoric with his mad tongue skills, but is an extremely poor judge of social boundaries.

He probably didn't have malice or bad intentions, but the way he came off sure made it seem like he did.

 

[Devolution]

David Jaffe's youtube video defending his position.

Awful.

Meandering around a point. Hopefully I got these somewhat correct:

Maybe she could have been a little more clear, or a lot more clear, but there's no room for that in some people's heads

yeah she fucking should [have to say that she's bothered or uncomfortable]

she kinda sent signals that were a little mixed

Oh a goodie

you're actually making it worse because you're refusing to see how people interact in the real world

Yeah people avoiding the come ons isn't a signal to stop.

Can people like Jaffe stop making the rest of us responsible for coddling the socially inept

 

[Hermii]

Pure speculation, but maybe she wouldn't have put it out to the world if it weren't for the last few messages. She was definitely able to identify that the dude didn't have all of his faculties when she asked whether or not he was tipsy, and maybe saw value in leaving it in Vegas. But then many, many hours later when he saw the exchange and should've realized, "Wow, I was such a dick. I am sorry." he instead upped the ante with a full paragraph about how much he loves taco buffet. After that she realizes he isn't just drunk, he's an actual dick.

This. When I read the first few messages I thought "GAF hyperbole again. The guy said some stupid things while drunk." Then I read the rest, looked at the timestamps and thought "What an asshole! This thread is entirely justified".

 

[Rocket Scientist]

But do people (including you) understand the full gravity of the situation if part of their reaction was "Oh id had done that shit different"? Honestly, saying that just reeks of apathy and a fundamental blindness on how woman constantly deal with sexual harassment and the realistic possibility that someone that is supposed to support her will criticize the way she handled herself or imply that she instigated this behavior by not filling an arbitrary checklist so now it can enter on a definition of sexual harassment.

I don't doubt that it is very difficult for women in this situation and I don't pretend to know how I would have handled the actual conversation. If she wanted to do something about the problem however, this was not the best way. Whether you are a man or woman, this course of action was stupid. I don't see why it is such a problem to point out the negative sides of someone's decisions. It should be possible to discuss this without having people tell you you are an ignorant victim blamer and making assumptions about what you do or do not know about what a woman deals with.

But still I cant criticize her for handling it the way she did, because im not her.

We should all stop talking about many things and people if this is the criteria we use for what we can talk about.

 

[hesido]

Wow. He played the Alcohol, Depression, and Death In the Family cards a little too quickly, IMO.

Lol, true..

I was baffled by how calm she seemed after his ridiculous sexual comments out of nowhere, and was nearly falling for victim blaming. Reading it a couple of times to empathize, I think she handled it well for that time, telling a drunk person to "go f**k himself" like I thought I would initially, would not exactly be sufficient to stop the harassment. She just stayed neutral to the end, maybe even respecting the fact the man was under the influence so as not to belittle him for his incapacity.

I think she decided to release this after several hours when one would assume he would sober up, he continued the "act".

 

[And_Gignac]

Women *need* to react differently towards sexual arrasment. It is kind of biological wired in women to not be aggressive when they are confronted with a male having one sided sexual advancements.

Since males have stronger muscles than women, the haunting idea of a forced raped is always there, so a woman has to be more cautious than just "go f*ck yourself, you stalker!"

 

[Triggerhappytel]

That conversation is cringe worthy. He sounds so pathetic.

And his apology... he blames his dead brother for him being an asshat. Gotta love it.

"Hey, have you seen that new game? And did you want to have sex?!"

"No, I haven't seen that new game. Nothing more to add."

"Okay, thanks. But if you fancy getting laid let me know, okay?!"

"If I hear anything about the game I'll pass on what I know"

"We could have sex!!"

"...I think I should go."

Dragging his dead brother into it - whether truthful or not - is pretty fucking vile. Just say he was drunk and apologise.

 

[mechphree]

Women *need* to react differently towards sexual arrasment. It is kind of biological wired in women to not be aggressive when they are confronted with a male having one sided sexual advancements.

Since males have stronger muscles than women, the haunting idea of a forced raped is always there, so a woman has to be more cautious than just "go f*ck yourself, you stalker!"

This is utter and complete bullshit. How did GAF approve you?

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Lol, true..

I was baffled by how calm she seemed after his ridiculous sexual comments out of nowhere, and was nearly falling for victim blaming. Reading it a couple of times to empathize, I think she handled it well for that time, telling a drunk person to "go f**k himself" like I thought I would initially, would not exactly be sufficient to stop the harassment. She just stayed neutral to the end, maybe even respecting the fact the man was under the influence so as not to belittle him for his incapacity.

I think she decided to release this after several hours when one would assume he would sober up, he continued the "act".

Women *need* to react differently towards sexual arrasment. It is kind of biological wired in women to not be aggressive when they are confronted with a male having one sided sexual advancements.

Since males have stronger muscles than women, the haunting idea of a forced raped is always there, so a woman has to be more cautious than just "go f*ck yourself, you stalker!"

I think its dangerous to pretend that there are only two options: ignoring something (''neutral'') and telling someone to ''fuck off''. As long as that is the basis of this discussion, the problem in the OP will persist.

 

[runnin_blue]

This is utter and complete bullshit. How did GAF approve you?

Yeah. I thought that comment was a bit weird too.

I think its dangerous to pretend that there are only two options: ignoring something (''neutral'') and telling someone to ''fuck off''. As long as that is the basis of this discussion, the problem in the OP will persist.

Exactly why I said she should have just told him "I have to go." Not offensive but gets her out of the ridiculous situation. IMO.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Pretty disappointed it was some little name blog and nothing big! Thought we had a giant scandal on our hands, not some fringe idiot. Oh well, still another douchebag exposed is good news for planet Earth at the least.

 

[RawNuts]

David Jaffe's youtube video defending his position.

Sometimes things get so awkward and pathetic that you just want to ignore it rather than speak up about it; hell, I've even been in that situation before and I'm a guy. If you know them as a friend, but not a great friend that you're comfortable with, it might even be harder to tell them to fuck off with that kind of shit.

If you get what I'm saying I will kiss you on the dick, Jaffe.

 

[MadLukas]

http://kotaku.com/reporter-apologizes-for-crude-sexual-comments-to-female-1505393796



Full apology on his tumblr:
http://joshmattingly.tumblr.com/post/74003803734/regretfully


Fully unblurred conversation here, take note of the timestamps.

We are all humans, everybody has huge flaws . I dont think i am in the right position to forgive him, so if she is ok and he is truly; then he deserves a second chance. Especially considering the circumstances.

 

[Nephtis]

Wow.

I mean, she completely ignores his advances and he is still relentless. I mean, I've been forward with people before but not to this degree. The apology seems half-hearted, too.

The hell, man.

 

[JDSN]

David Jaffe's youtube video defending his position.

Oh my, he right away started with the classic "PC society" that punishes kids that stand up to bullies and compared those kids to him . And yeah Jaffe, if you need some evidence on where you put the blame here read this tweet, or just see the bit at 5:15:

Its not her fault that this guy is a douchebag but I am suggesting: Dont she takes some responsibility in retrospect when you look at this conversation and look that never in that conversation was there anything that she was claiming "stop talking to me this way"

Take some responsibility? A "No" is not needed for sexual harassment to be sexual harassment, it is not drawn when the victim decides is enough and its not implicit that the situation is muddy at best because she never says the magic word you want her to say. There are many grey areas but they are clearly defined when it comes to harassment, he the guy crossed that area and by saying she had to take responsibility you are indirectly blaming her for allowing her to escalate up to that point because she didnt use the specific social cue you wanted her to use to legitimize her actions.

 

[Prophet Steve]

Women *need* to react differently towards sexual arrasment. It is kind of biological wired in women to not be aggressive when they are confronted with a male having one sided sexual advancements.

Since males have stronger muscles than women, the haunting idea of a forced raped is always there, so a woman has to be more cautious than just "go f*ck yourself, you stalker!"

Biological wiring does not have anything to do with how this women reacts.

And I doubt she was scared she was going to get raped if she would tell him to stop.

 

[Acccent]

Jaffe doesn't get it, does he. He tries, I can tell he really tries, but he just won't get it.

Don't bother watching the video: he just repeats for 13:34 that it's not sexual harassment since "they're both adult and she didn't do anything to stop it".

He even goes on to talk about something similar that happened in his company where a woman had to notify him of stuff that he did that made her uncomfortable, which he previously thought she was "contributing to". And then of course he 'apologized' to her for it not being "her style of humor". My god.

Jaffe, the "reality of how people have exchanges and interface with each other in the real world" that you're talking about, that you adhere to and think is okay, is precisely the problem and part of the reason why a woman wouldn't feel comfortable even just explicitly putting an end to that kind of conversation. You're the one who refuses to see things for what they are and instead insist on forcing your own asshole point of view on everyone else.

 

[And_Gignac]

This is utter and complete bullshit. How did GAF approve you?

Well, maybe I worded that badly, my apologies. I just meant that it is a cultural fact that women are more in danger to be sexually assaulted with violence, and what begins as a cultural thing ends up having an impact, with the passing of multiple generations, in the biological aspect too. So I can totally understand why the girl reacted the way she did, even if it was just via internet interaction.

 

[davidjaffe]

By the way, if you've not seen the unedited version, it's here:

http://i.imgur.com/kQ6XlXZ.png

Only a fool would read this and think she was into this guy. BUT you'd also have to be a fool to read this and NOT see her friendly acknowledgements of/joking about some of the horrifically vulgar things that he is saying.

This is not me 'blaming a victim' as a) I don't really see a victim here and b) I don't forgive what the guy did (it was terrible) and say him being vulgar and inappropriate was her fault. But I do think she should have made her response more clear as while it doesn't read like she's interested in this creep (not by a long shot) it also doesn't read like she's just keeping things pure business.

And for the dick who felt I was saying that her mentioning her divorce was a signal that she wanted him to flirt- wow, you missed the point. I never said that and that was not my point. My point was that she was that by mentioning something as personal as her dealing with her divorce she was opening the conversation to a more personal level when she probably needed to keep it pure business (especially since he started flirting with her in his very opening line, making his intention to NOT be pure business clear).

David

David

 

[JDSN]

I don't doubt that it is very difficult for women in this situation and I don't pretend to know how I would have handled the actual conversation. If she wanted to do something about the problem however, this was not the best way. Whether you are a man or woman, this course of action was stupid. I don't see why it is such a problem to point out the negative sides of someone's decisions. It should be possible to discuss this without having people tell you you are an ignorant victim blamer and making assumptions about what you do or do not know about what a woman deals with.

We should all stop talking about many things and people if this is the criteria we use for what we can talk about.

I meant that I cant criticize her because unlike her I can say with all the confidence in the world that I will be supported if I report sexual harassment, there have been hundreds of examples of ignored reports and victim blamed when a woman decides to speak up on this issues which is why some hesitate in the first place on how to engage this kind of situation.

The very fact that some are criticizing her actions here is enough to deter a woman reading this thread to avoid her initial impulse of telling some creep to fuck off in the future. I still dont understand why bringing it to light is a bad thing.

 

[FrontierWhiskey]

Re: Jaffe's response to this issue

I can't help but be somewhat sympathetic to what he's trying to say.

It's so GD awful that anyone is treated in a way that makes them feel marginalized..but it happens all the time. It's also not always a case of an evil person preying on an innocent. I think what rubs Jaffe the wrong way is how quick the internet is to pile on a case that, while pretty shitty, might not be as simple as it seems.

I don't think he's done a good job in what I think is a call for a more measured response. What I get from him is that he feels like the 'journalist' was 100% in the wrong, but he also sees how someone could be out of their head and make a terrible mistake.

I think that what he's seeing on the internet tonight is what can be so frustrating - an issue is brought to light and it's only met by outrage and there's no room for discussion. Just a wall of anger and incrimination.

I don't know if that dude's texts are defensible in any way. I know I've done some really dumb shit when under the influence, and I can't imagine it being on the internet. I also can't imagine having that kind of behavior directed towards me being a blog post, either. It's not good for anyone.

I think what Jaffe is trying to say is that there's room for discussion, but I don't think it's coming across very well.

 

[hesido]

I think its dangerous to pretend that there are only two options: ignoring something (''neutral'') and telling someone to ''fuck off''. As long as that is the basis of this discussion, the problem in the OP will persist.

Oh well, there's that too. Leaving the conversation immediately might have been the most ideal behaviour, but keeping neutral was better than "fuck off". Also, he could have continued his harrasing messages afterwards when he thought he was being ignored (after a hypothetical "I'm leaving" comment right after she agreed to help)

But I really don't want to put the blame on the victim because she didn't act in the most ideal way.

 

[mechphree]

Jaffe doesn't get it, does he. He tries, I can tell he really tries, but he just won't get it.

Don't bother watching the video: he just repeats for 13:34 that it's not sexual harassment since "they're both adult and she didn't do anything to stop it".

He even goes on to talk about something similar that happened in his company where a woman had to notify him of stuff that he did that made her uncomfortable, which he previously thought she was "contributing to". And then of course he 'apologized' to her for it not being "her style of humor". My god.

Jaffe, the "reality of how people have exchanges and interface with each other in the real world" that you're talking about, that you adhere to and think is okay, is precisely the problem and part of the reason why a woman wouldn't feel comfortable even just explicitly putting an end to that kind of conversation. You're the one who refuses to see things for what they are and instead insist on forcing your own asshole point of view on everyone else.

Lol he's an idiot. Under law, you don't have to "reject" sexual harassment for it to be harassment in the workforce. The only thing it does is have to make you feel uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure him going on about the 14 nerve endings in the vagina made her uncomfortable.

 

[Moral Panic]

When someone ignores your sexual talk and tries to get back onto work related matters, that's a pretty big sign. The first time he tries can be considered flirting, when he continues despite the fact that she is clearly not reciprocating, it is harassment.

 

[davidjaffe]

Jaffe doesn't get it, does he. He tries, I can tell he really tries, but he just won't get it.

Don't bother watching the video: he just repeats for 13:34 that it's not sexual harassment since "they're both adult and she didn't do anything to stop it".

He even goes on to talk about something similar that happened in his company where a woman had to notify him of stuff that he did that made her uncomfortable, which he previously thought she was "contributing to". And then of course he 'apologized' to her for it not being "her style of humor". My god.

Jaffe, the "reality of how people have exchanges and interface with each other in the real world" that you're talking about, that you adhere to and think is okay, is precisely the problem and part of the reason why a woman wouldn't feel comfortable even just explicitly putting an end to that kind of conversation. You're the one who refuses to see things for what they are and instead insist on forcing your own asshole point of view on everyone else.

Except you are simply wrong.

Sexual harassment is defined as unwanted sexual advances. UNWANTED being the key (legally speaking) word. Unless it's made clear that what you are doing is making someone uncomfortable, no matter how obvious it may be to YOU Mister Smart Guy, it's not harassment (unless the line that has been crossed is SUPER SUPER SUPER obvious- and even then I don't know if it would hold up legally as harassment).

 

[Devolution]

Oh here comes Jaffe to patronize us some more.

 

[Karkador]

David Jaffe's youtube video defending his position.

wow, man. totally embarrassing to listen to this rambling argument basically saying "she didn't say no, so...I guess that means anything is fair game". I wouldn't be surprised if this video is taken down, unless Jaffe is also going to blame alcoholism and depression for this video being made.

 

[davidjaffe]

wow, man. totally embarrassing to listen to this rambling argument basically saying "she didn't say no, so...I guess that means anything is fair game". I wouldn't be surprised if this video is taken down, unless Jaffe is also going to blame alcoholism and depression for this video being made.

Wow man, totally embarrassing to read a response from you suggesting NOTHING CLOSE to what I was suggesting in the video.

 

[Devolution]

Except you are simply wrong.

Sexual harassment is defined as unwanted sexual advances. UNWANTED being the key (legally speaking) word. Unless it's made clear that what you are doing is making someone uncomfortable, no matter how obvious it may be to YOU Mister Smart Guy, it's not harassment (unless the line that has been crossed is SUPER SUPER SUPER obvious- and even then I don't know if it would hold up legally as harassment).

Explain to us more from your ivory tower of privilege what constitutes sexual harassment and making others feel uncomfortable and why someone should have to be explicit in their rejection. What ever happened to social cues, business etiquette and I don't know being a decent human being?

 

[JesseEwiak]

Explain to us more from your ivory tower of privilege what constitutes sexual harassment and making others feel uncomfortable and why someone should have to be explicit in their rejection. What ever happened to social cues, business etiquette and I don't know being a decent human being?

Come on, until you tell me to stop it, we don't really know it's sexual harassment if I'm your boss or your biggest customer and compliment your boobs all the time. I mean, it's not like I hold any power over you or anything.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Jaffe this isn't a battle you can win, disengage because you're only making it worse.

 

[Sir British]

Take some responsibility?

I know this conversation is going into "We should teach men not to rape" or "Not to act like that" and I do agree with that to an extent, but I think women should be encouraged to talk out against this.

Silence or sidestepping is contributing to the problem. I know this from experience.

 

[mechphree]

Except you are simply wrong.

Sexual harassment is defined as unwanted sexual advances. UNWANTED being the key (legally speaking) word. Unless it's made clear that what you are doing is making someone uncomfortable, no matter how obvious it may be to YOU Mister Smart Guy, it's not harassment (unless the line that has been crossed is SUPER SUPER SUPER obvious- and even then I don't know if it would hold up legally as harassment).

Sir you are incorrect. Sexual harassment in the workforce is about doing actions that make some one uncomfortable, regardless of wether or not they say they are comfortable or not. Laws are put in place, to protect people who report these acts so they don't face consequences.

If YOU make sexual advances to some one and it makes them "feel" uncomfortable that is the line crossed. It doesn't matter if YOU feel like they are fine with that because that's all subject to your opinion.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

Except you are simply wrong.

Sexual harassment is defined as unwanted sexual advances. UNWANTED being the key (legally speaking) word. Unless it's made clear that what you are doing is making someone uncomfortable, no matter how obvious it may be to YOU Mister Smart Guy, it's not harassment (unless the line that has been crossed is SUPER SUPER SUPER obvious- and even then I don't know if it would hold up legally as harassment).

So we're using legal parameters to define the boundaries of acceptable social interaction? Cause if that's your entire argument as to why this "isn't as bad as it seems" I think we can all call it quits here and now. There are plenty of things you can do that are completely wrong to do that are perfectly legal. In any case not dealing with extremes it's best to leave the legal hair splitting out of it. Only makes one side look desperate and the other side like assholes for calling out how desperate it is.

 

[Devolution]

Sir you are incorrect. Sexual harassment in the workforce is about doing actions that make some one uncomfortable, regardless of wether or not they say they are comfortable or not. Laws are put in place, to protect people who report these acts so they don't face consequences.

If YOU make sexual advances to some one and it makes them "feel" uncomfortable that is the line crossed. It doesn't matter if YOU feel like they are fine with that because that's all subject to your opinion.

Well HE gets to dictate everything, don't you get it?

 

[Adam Blue]

Oh here comes Jaffe to patronize us some more.

He's just offering a counter-point. He's hoping to have some honest discussion instead of being told off.

I know I made some points earlier and was immediately shot down instead of having any thoughtful debate out of it. It made me feel bad really. I was hoping we could all have a good discussion about this. Because in the end, we want the same thing.

I think there's too much hostility where there doesn't need to be.

 

[Karkador]

Wow man, totally embarrassing to read a response from you suggesting NOTHING CLOSE to what I was suggesting in the video.

I'd say "go home, you're drunk", but you appear to be home

 

[Devolution]

He's just offering a counter-point. He's hoping to have some honest discussion instead of being told off.

I know I made some points earlier and was immediately shot down instead of having any thoughtful debate out of it. It made me feel bad really. I was hoping we could all have a good discussion about this. Because in the end, we want the same thing.

I think there's too much hostility where there doesn't need to be.

His counter point is about sexual harassment as HE defines it and it's clearly wrong and prejudicial to his privilege and favor.

 

[voodoopanda]

Its somewhat common for victims of sexual harassment and similar to be held up to the nearly impossible standard of the "perfect victim." Someone who didn't say or do anything that could possibly be construed to be leading the person on, someone who clearly states that what the person is doing is wrong and that they should stop, someone who is completely sober, someone's whose background is untarnished etc. It's an extra level of nonsense that victims have to deal with when they decide to speak out. It's ridiculous to hold the victims up to these standards, and attempts to erase a lot of sexual harassment.

Victims of sexual harassment aren't always going to do the perfect thing in the heat of the moment. To claim they hold some amount of responsibility because their reactions weren't good enough is kinda messed up.

Especially in a case like this, where the dude clearly crosses the line over the course of two hours and then again the next day(!) and the woman took a completely neutral, professional approach. There's been much more ambiguous situations that were still sexual harassment.

 

[Roshin]

I can understand that we're talking about this, but I can't understand that some are actually arguing who's right or wrong here. Seriously, wtf?

 

[davidjaffe]

Explain to us more from your ivory tower of privilege what constitutes sexual harassment and making others feel uncomfortable and why someone should have to be explicit in their rejection. What ever happened to social cues, business etiquette and I don't know being a decent human being?

Well first off, I'm telling you what the legal definition is. I assure you, there's no ivory tower of privilege here when it comes to my understanding of the law. I didn't go to law school and perhaps the law has changed. But I- like thousands of others- did attend Sony sexual harassment training back in the day and this is what we were told by those folks who ran the course and who- it should be mentioned-study and write such laws. A quick google search will confirm.

I don't think the dude who was so vulgar is in any way ok or should escape the wrath he is now- almost certainly- incurring. So I dunno why you think I feel he should not be a decent human. He should and his behavior was unacceptable.

As for WHY you need to be explicit in your rejection, here is why...cause this particular exchange is CONFUSING! NOWHERE is it made clear she digs this guys advancements, I'm not even suggesting suggesting that. That is super clear. But you really have to be ignoring clear sections of this text conversation to say you don't see how a rational person could feel that she's not bothered by them (at the least). Have you seen the whole thing or just what Kotaku put up?

http://i.imgur.com/kQ6XlXZ.png

David

 

[mechphree]

Well HE gets to dictate everything, don't you get it?

lol, I see that now. He shouldn't jump in threads quoting sexual harassment and what it is or isn't if he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. If you were to show those messages to any review board , he would be clearly fined for harassment. I guess he thinks since the person didn't tell him to go away it's fine.