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[Bojji]

I disagree. 45% faster than a PS5 is nowhere near of a 3070 ti or 6800 on rasterisation.

With pure "paper" TF it's close to 6800 (163% of PS5) but that 45% figure puts it much lower, yeah.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Bojji]

Talking about CPU limited games:

Half of 3080 is used here, game it bottlenecked by 5800x3D - cpu that is much better than Zen 2.

 

[Codeblew]

Their flaw is mistaking PC performance for console performance

They don't take into account the custom hardware like the the on the fly decompression, cache scrubbers, etc... Just the decompression hardware decompresses at the same speed as 9 gen-2 cores. On, PC that all has to be done on the CPU, on PS5 the CPU doesn't have to do decompression at all.

Storage Matters: Why Xbox and Playstation SSDs Usher In A New Era of Gaming

www.anandtech.com

 

[jm89]

 

[Wooxsvan]

 

[peish]

You're two parts confused and three parts ignorant.

Firstly, VRS is shit. All implementations of Xbox's HW-accelerated VRS outside of the Coalition's in the last Gears game have been utter creamy horseshit. In fact, the COD devs produced better results with a purely software solution that runs just as well on the PS5 as the XSX; making the VRS BS peddled by Xbots even more lol-worthy.

Secondly, VRS and geometry shaders are not even similar. They're completely different things. What I think you meant to say is that people argued that Sony's custom geometry shaders were equivalent to mesh shaders... and they would be right because they are. They both provide full programmability to the geometry pipeline. Every piece of technical documentation that describes what Sony's geometry shaders and mesh shaders do, shows that they achieve the same thing but just with two slightly different approaches.

Yes you are right, i got mixed up.

 

[ChiefDada]

Beaten.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Who is this and what does it mean?

 

[ChiefDada]

Who is this and what does it mean?

Leaker who predicted GoT PC announcement.

 

[JackMcGunns]

DF is now the enemy number 1 of Sony fanboys because pointing facts… Is hilarious. In the PS4 Era, DF was God here.

I agree, DF was God here, but a major shift happened starting November, 2017. The shift was sudden and abrupt. Can't figure out why

Spoiler

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Who is this and what does it mean?

New leaker who popped onto the scene a month or so ago

What does it mean?

I guess he has heard some of the whispers that made the rounds of something being shown (possibly will be behind closed doors at GDC) that looks pretty amazing

I agree, DF was God here, but a major shift happened starting November, 2017. The shift was sudden and abrupt. Can't figure out why

Spoiler

Pretty good detailed story behind that scoop, might just get revealed in full one day

 

[Proelite]

We don't even know how well PSSR will do reconstruction, much less frame gen. And Sony has said nothing at all of frame gen, I would think if it was an option it would be talked about.

There is FSR3. Could just be PSSR + FSR3.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

DF have been oddly skeptical towards the idea of a PS5 Pro for a number of strange reasons that never come up when similar stuff should apply (supposedly more work for developers, pricepoint too high for most people etc.)

Can't say I care much about their opinions/speculation here either.

But what exactly is wrong with their opinions, this PRO compared to the PS4 Pro is such a tiny margin in quality jump, just porves how useless it is. The sales of the PS4 Pro were 1/10th of the regular PS4. The way things are going, this is gonna sell half that.

 

[Mr Moose]

Who is this and what does it mean?

Naughty Dog are going to make us moist.

 

[TheRedRiders]

New leaker who popped onto the scene a month or so ago

What does it mean?

I guess he has heard some of the whispers that made the rounds of something being shown (possibly will be behind closed doors at GDC) that looks pretty amazing


Pretty good detailed story behind that scoop, might just get revealed in full one day

Oh wow - seems like he/she mentioned "dogs" very deliberately, maybe Pro will be teased with ND's next big title?

 

[playsaves3]

Im little surprised df was so concerned with no cpu boost when they often compare ps5 gpu to nvidia gpus comined with monter cpu, suggetsting there is no such a thing like cpu limitation on ps5 ;d

Now this part is facts

 

[LordOcidax]

I agree, DF was God here, but a major shift happened starting November, 2017. The shift was sudden and abrupt. Can't figure out why

Spoiler

Fanboys can’t handle facts.

 

[Radical_3d]

OT: I need to get up to date with Brooklyn because this looks wild.

 

[FrankWza]

We're on record saying that this generation doesn't really need a mid-gen upgrade

Embarrassing

In evangelising PS5, Mark Cerny repeatedly told us how Sony was still wedded to the concept of the console generation. Corporate messaging spoke of the need to move users from PS4 to PS5 as quickly as possible. The strategy changed, but the investments in PS5 Pro had already been made.

Extra Embarrassing

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Just looking through some threads and posts on this Pro I see so many people bashing it how its a waste of money

I totally agree and everyone should boycott this thing until Sony gets it right

I don't want to fight scalpers and other buyers because I want 2 of them

Stay strong through this everyone

 

[Represent.]

Naughty Dog save us please

Who is this and what does it mean?

Leaker with a good track record. And it means Naughty Dog will show devs how to make actual next gen games.

 

[Fafalada]

Cause if you are just clocking the CPU higher to say 4.5Ghz, then that is useless to you if you don not also increase the cache.

Strictly speaking that's an assumption people make online with zero backing evidence (just like the 'CPU is a bottleneck' in of itself).
Memory subsystems console CPUs are attached to are 'very' different from PCs and consequently the impact and behaviour of caches is as well. It's not uncommon for console CPUs to 'punch above their weight' because they have a better memory subsystem (like the PS2 which basically had no cache, and even attached to RDRam still had way better ram latencies than any PC of that era, or GCN which was just excessive with the SRam latencies).
Of course custom memory-subsystem can also backfire the other way - cough PS360, cough - where memory basically destroyed the performance of those CPUs and then some.

The funny thing is - we've only started getting excessive vitriol about CPUs for console launches since PS4/XB1 switched to x86. Before that we had 20 years of much worse CPUs and barely anyone acknowledged that console games were almost exclusively CPU limited in PS3, PS2, and PS1 eras.
Even to this date - people still only argue about respective GPUs from that era - even though that was mostly a non-factor. Especially in Multiplatform comparisons - it wouldn't be until PS4/XB1 that GPUs became the dominant differentiator between those games.

Like take right now for example - a good 8 core desktop CPU might be about 2x the Console equivalent performance. Sounds like a lot?
In PS2 era - the core-2-core comparisons with desktops were at least 10x. And don't even get me started on the PS1...

 

[Senua]

Lets put this to rest shall we?

Ps5 processor is roughly an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Ps5 GPU is roughly an AMD Radeon RX 6800

 

[SonGoku]

Yes that was complete nonsense from them, FUD even. Nothing screams RDNA3 here. Not the CU / shader array count (which does not exist on RDNA3), not the Sony RT claims (linked with RT Cerny patent they never mentionned), not the AI numbers not possible on RDNA3, etc. Everything screams something >RDNA3.

Precisely! its misleading at best to call it RDNA3 just because they have no knowledge of AMD near future releases.
Would be the same as calling PS5 RDNA1, whats even more baffling is their supposition its might be on 6nm, someone of the caliber of DF should not be making such half assed conjectures (being generous here assuming its not malicious).

I also think that the PS5 Pro should be on N5 or N4.
But the reality is that some GPUs in the RDNA3 line do use N6, such as the 7600 and 7600XT.

The thing is PS5 Pro GPU capabilities (RT performance, AI upscaling) has more in common with RDNA 4 than RDNA3, not to mention RDNA3 power consumption is already bad at 5nm on 6nm it would be even worse for a 60CU part.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Strictly speaking that's an assumption people make online with zero backing evidence (just like the 'CPU is a bottleneck' in of itself).
Memory subsystems console CPUs are attached to are 'very' different from PCs and consequently the impact and behaviour of caches is as well. It's not uncommon for console CPUs to 'punch above their weight' because they have a better memory subsystem (like the PS2 which basically had no cache, and even attached to RDRam still had way better ram latencies than any PC of that era, or GCN which was just excessive with the SRam latencies).
Of course custom memory-subsystem can also backfire the other way - cough PS360, cough - where memory basically destroyed the performance of those CPUs and then some.

The funny thing is - we've only started getting excessive vitriol about CPUs for console launches since PS4/XB1 switched to x86. Before that we had 20 years of much worse CPUs and barely anyone acknowledged that console games were almost exclusively CPU limited in PS3, PS2, and PS1 eras.
Even to this date - people still only argue about respective GPUs from that era - even though that was mostly a non-factor. Especially in Multiplatform comparisons - it wouldn't be until PS4/XB1 that GPUs became the dominant differentiator between those games.

Like take right now for example - a good 8 core desktop CPU might be about 2x the Console equivalent performance. Sounds like a lot?
In PS2 era - the core-2-core comparisons with desktops were at least 10x. And don't even get me started on the PS1...

Please do. I know that the NES had a really old processor but the goal was to be cheap, not bleeding edge. No idea what you are talking about in the PS1 era. I read that it had many processors, but nothing else.

 

[SonGoku]

It is a custom solution with elements from RDNA3 and RDNA4 ported by AMD to the manufacturing node Sony has chosen.

So same as PS5 which was a custom solution which picked and chose feature sets, but still based on RDNA2, would be misleading to call PS5 GPU RDNA1

It is very very very likely this is manufactured using the same process as PS5 Slim as that is how they normally kind of get the Slim revision for free almost.

The difference this time around is that 6nm is the same 7nm node with some EUV layers, its design compatible with 7nm so porting existing 7nm designs to 6nm is "free". Sony wouldn't need to design a Pro version to cut costs on the Slim 6nm shrink

 

[SportsFan581]

That PSSR is going to be doing some magic I think. Theres no way they won't have tested this thing and put it out if they weren't happy with the results. Why else would they go with it?

Probably just a bit of disconnect with what it was designed to do versus what some gafers (myself included) would want a mid-gen system to do.

A 7700XT class GPU + A good DLSS like solution + A great CPU and I'd be rethinking just going with PC going forward. The gimped CPU makes me think I've moved in the right direction. A lot of people just love the simplicity of consoles though, and this should do wonders for image quality of the 60fps modes (hopefully without any further input delay issues or anything like that). We just have to wait and see what they've cooked up.

But, I can see them maybe wanting to use the CPU again to sell the next generation. Specifically that ability to run the previously 30fps games at 60fps, that's basically been the sales pitch for this gen so far and we are 4 years in.

@Fafalada maybe some of what you are saying regarding cache optimization is true on first-party, but third party games have been tested on the console CPUs running the standard PC version and the results are essentially identical to what we see on console. Not a lot of secret sauce and/or magic optimization to be found there. In fact, most evidence points to CPUs running worse on GDDR6 than DDR4 due to latency issues.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I think the Pro is going to be a tough sell.

I think Alex put it well in the Df video something like Sony said 4k with the PS5 but now we really mean it with the Pro.

I thought that comment was a Clown show take

4K will always depend on developer ambitions.

It is no different than ps4 pro. It’s not expected to be the main seller.

Since xbox won’t have a pro version it may be easier to sell a ps5 pro, especially when Xbox games are now coming to ps5

 

[SportsFan581]

Lets put this to rest shall we?

Ps5 processor is roughly an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Ps5 GPU is roughly an AMD Radeon RX 6800

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The PS5 performs more or less like a Zen 2 processor in Battlefield 2042. Both Zen 2 and the PS5 drop to 50fps minimums in the 128 player mode.

Not really a great example to use to try and prove a big difference between the two.

Ricky Bobby already posted the receipts on this and why you are wrong

 

[Zathalus]

On, PC that all has to be done on the CPU,

No it doesn't.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

I want the PS5 Pro to be a substantial upgrade. I am mainly a PC gamer but if they can put out a much stronger PS5 regardless if it cost $600-$700 I'd buy one day one. I would just like an alternative to those random days when I want to lounge on the couch versus sitting in my chair to play something. But currently the PS5 we have just doesn't cut it.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Talking about CPU limited games:

Half of 3080 is used here, game it bottlenecked by 5800x3D - cpu that is much better than Zen 2.

Bottlenecked by shitty optimization, not the cpu

 

[Senua]

Bottlenecked by shitty optimization, not the cpu

 

[Zathalus]

Ricky Bobby already posted the receipts on this and why you are wrong

What has that got to do with I said? I'm pointing out that Battlefield 2042 runs exactly as you would expect on a PS5, the Zen 2 CPU drops to 50fps in the 128 player mode. Exact same as what happens with a 8 core Zen 2 CPU on PC.

 

[winjer]

Talking about CPU limited games:

Half of 3080 is used here, game it bottlenecked by 5800x3D - cpu that is much better than Zen 2.

In a scene that has nothing special to render, such low performance can only be lack of optimization.
It's not like there is a huge amount of detail. Or a large amount of NPCs. complex physics. etc.
When devs suck so much at optimizing their own game, no amount of CPU power ill ever be enough.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

Talking about CPU limited games:

Half of 3080 is used here, game it bottlenecked by 5800x3D - cpu that is much better than Zen 2.

Which game is this? Perhaps a link to the video?

 

[GloveSlap]

I passed on the PS5 to wait for the Pro, but with Sony releasing more and more games on PC i might just upgrade that instead. I'll see what's what when it's closer to release i guess.

 

[Mortisfacio]

Which game is this? Perhaps a link to the video?

Looks like Dragons Dogma 2

 

[DJ12]

Pretty poor tech review from the people that cannot fathom Series X losing out in some head to heads.

As a pure tech review vs a PC part, I guess it's passable, but they really don't have a clue about anything bespoke that will be pulling weight in the console.

It's pretty clear the Pro will do what they are saying, so DF should be thinking about what they could implement that would make those differences.

For example, patents exist for Sony's own raytracing acceleration ideas, why does it just need to be "what RDNA 4 will offer"

 

[Codeblew]

No it doesn't.

Where is the custom hardware on my PC that decompresses data from the SSD before it hits memory?

 

[sachos]

The CPU upgrade is the most disappointing for sure, i was expecting a little more, enough to auto-fix CPU bound games like Elden Ring or BG3. Really excited for PSSR and up to x4 RT upgrade though. The memory upgrades are nice too.
What i really want to see now is the 4700S paired with a RX 6700 vs a 4700S paired with the PS5 Pro equivalent GPU (a 7700?) and see the difference in performance.

 

[FrankWza]

Pretty poor tech review from the people that cannot fathom Series X losing out in some head to heads.

As a pure tech review vs a PC part, I guess it's passable, but they really don't have a clue about anything bespoke that will be pulling weight in the console.

It's pretty clear the Pro will do what they are saying, so DF should be thinking about what they could implement that would make those differences.

For example, patents exist for Sony's own raytracing acceleration ideas, why does it just need to be "what RDNA 4 will offer"

Legends in their own minds. They actually believe they know more than Cerny. Now we get to read parroting of CPU bound, CPU heavy and CPU___ for 6 months like anyone knows what they're talking about.

 

[SportsFan581]

I disagree. 45% faster than a PS5 is nowhere near of a 3070 ti or 6800 on rasterisation.

When you compare the 6700 non xt to the 6800 non xt you are looking at about a 44% difference in performance according to techpowerup. The 6700 can't always keep up with the PS5 perfectly, so I don't think this seems like an unrealistic number. Sony might even be a little conservative with that. Real-world the Pro might be a bit stronger than the 6800. The big get will be the DLSS like feature.

 

[Senua]

Legends in their own minds. They actually believe they know more than Cerny.

No they don't, that's just in your weird head.

 

[Zathalus]

Where is the custom hardware on my PC that decompresses data from the SSD before it hits memory?

The PC doesn't have custom hardware for that. Just pointing out you don't need to use the CPU for it. Decompression can be done on the GPU.

 

[FrankWza]

No they don't,

How would you know? You're not going to watch the video until it's ported to your PC in 8k and 240fps.
And then you'll wait for a sale.

 

[Senua]

How would you know? You're not going to watch the video until it's ported to your PC in 8k and 240fps.
And then you'll wait for a sale.

New material time plz

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sony wouldn't need to design a Pro version to cut costs on the Slim 6nm shrink

I think it is the Slim coming for free, optimising for 6 nm is still a cost. I would not trust this process of porting the design to it to be completely free.

Anyways, doing the entire design with 5nm would be a bigger change and I do not think Sony thinks it is worth that cost. Given what they have designed / the target they have (unless it is crazy expensive) they may be right.