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Digital Foundry - Playstation 5 Pro specs analysis, also new information
- Thread starter Gaiff
- Start date
ozz ex machina
Member
I assumed pro was going to give me 60fps for gta 6 at least. No chance with that CPU right? Fucks sake just launch on PC at the same time so I don't need to buy this hunk of shit PLEASE rockstar.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
No one knows at this point honestly
ShadyAcshuns
Member
No 60fps? LOL! What's the point?
yamaci17
Member
depends if rockstar targets 60 fps on base ps5 or not
some people here think it will. let's hope they're correct
ozz ex machina
Member
Come on man...you saw the trailer. There is no way that base ps5 is getting close to 60. Will be lucky for a stable 30 just like RDR2 on base PS4.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
No one is saying PS5 Pro is a peice of crap.
But the following is indisputable.
Xbox One X's massive 4X GPU performance >>> PS5 Pro 45% abysmal (after 4 years) GPU performance
Xbox One X decent 31% CPU increase >>> PS5 Pro abysmal 10% CPU increase
Xbox One X is by far the biggest mid-gen refresh in terms of raw hardware.
PSSSR could make PS5 Pro still worth it though...
yamaci17
Member
well there are 3 groups of people in this thread
1) those who believe the game will be 60 fps
2) those who believe the game will be 30 fps and make it worthwhile
3) those who believe that if the game is going to be 30 fps, it won't be worthwhile (despite what they saw in the trailer)
i'm in the 2nd group based on what I saw on the trailer.
not to mention there was really no sensible CPU upgrade path for Jaguar family of CPU, even bulldozer was lackluster. meanwhile zen 3 is a big IPC upgrade over zen 2 and would make for a decent CPU upgrade imo. and there weren't any 60 fps/cpu based upgrade expectation back then. but with how ps5 struggles between 30 and 60 fps, a decent CPU jump would give ps5 pro a much better job at attaining 60 FPS
zen 3 + 32 mb cache would've been perfect. it would at least guarantee 40 fps modes for 120 hz screens going forward for 30 fps cpu limited games
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Audiophile
Gold Member
Radical_3d
Member
SportsFan581
Member
I don't know where they pulled that from, but the game can't hit a 60 average on a 2700 paired with a 4090 (at 1080p low) and the 2700 falls more in line with the CPU in these than the 3600. And we've already seen how the 3600 is typically 50% ahead of the console CPU and it barely does 60. This was never hitting 60 on the console, 30 was it (maybe they could do 40 or 45 if they didn't want to leave any headroom). They pushed the graphics as far as they could at that target. Simple facts.
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Ashamam
Member
Todds IGN interview.
So at times it can hit 60 on the Series X. Based on the way its worded you could definitely say its above 40 a lot of the time. Sounds perfect for a Pro type upgrade! So what if it dips below 60 because someone collects potatoes.
Not to mention once you adopt a lower target there is little reason to optimise heavily. So who's to say what could have been achieved if they didn't just standardise on 30 fps for both machines. Which personally I suspect is part of the issue, they wanted the S to be a roughly equivalent experience.
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SportsFan581
Member
If it's up there 50 or 60% of the time even, that's a horrible experience for the player (assuming the low spots are around 30 (and the game isn't a 100% perfect lock at 30 there are some slight stutters in busy moments at 30 even). Plus, if you've played this game you kind of get the idea of what he is saying there, the game is a mix of busy city areas and planets and desolate moons. Looking at the sky or wondering a moon, sure 60 is probably a thing there. Combat scenarios vs. exploration etc.
Nothing is worse than the stutter of a CPU bottle-necked game, that's way worse than the typical GPU bound scenarios. That's why they capped it for consistency like he is saying there. It's why Gotham Knights was capped, and probably why a few games that shipped with those embarrassing 60fps modes should have been capped (the ones that dip into the low 40s at the first sign of action).
Maybe a 10% CPU uplift might pull this particular game up to something more workable, but the XSX has what it has and it doesn't look like any kind of a good 60fps mode was coming on the XSX console as the game released. Maybe we get something like that with the expansion after they have optimized it more.
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Ashamam
Member
I don't disagree about them locking it, just making the point about it being CPU locked. Its highly situational. I mean hell CE managed 60fps on Jaguar in Skyrim (mods enabled it). CE 2.0 appears to be more centered around GPU upgrades, lighting and such, than CPU to me, so I'm at a bit of a loss at to why its such a poor performer. It sure would be interesting to see what the Pro could do with an internal resolution of 1080p on this title.
SportsFan581
Member
If a 4090 could just barely do it at 1080p low on the 3600 (again with that roughly 50% CPU lead over the console), I'm not sure if a 10% jump on the CPU and the 45% on the GPU would be enough. The 4090 is certainly considerably more than 45% more powerful than the base PS5.
Would probably require some significant optimizations to do that well with a Pro level upgrade like what is being rumored.
Ashamam
Member
Yeah it might not make a huge difference, but it would be interesting to prove it. Personally I put CE 2.0 into is own little silo. Its just weird. It kind of gets a free pass in the media because its 'heavy on the CPU'. But if you look at the wider gaming landscape its not like its doing anything revolutionary in terms of simulation. Feels like its being very inefficient.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
The motherboard is called a 4800s desktop kit. Its a china only integrated MB, it has the XSX SOC on it. So the literal CPU that the XSX has. This is their video.
The game averaged over 40fps in most cases and in some parts of the game, did 60fps. And again, this is a Bethesda game, and we all know how they are when it comes to optimizations. They also tested Cyberpunk.
Pimpbaa
Member
I would assume that it would offer games that offer a 60fps option on the standard ps5 will be able to do on the PS5 Pro much higher resolutions for those performance modes and less visual cutbacks. Resolutions in performance modes in games can get quite low on a standard ps5.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
But thats the thing, I or anyone else that is not for the PRO dont think this is a 60% jump. First of all I couldnt care less about RT...its 4 times better whatever that means. In the end its again how the developers implement it. If they cant optimize their game properly, you will still get a 30fps title no matter how much more power the PRO has. In the end, if anything with this PRO, we should be getting 60fps in ALL games, so lets say thats the selling point here. I really dont care that the other 35% games will be finally 60fps, its not a good enough jump for me to switch. Dont even get me started on this imaginary 8K content. First of all there is no content yet, second, once we start getting 8K games you can kiss your 60fps goodbye and super fast loading times so essentially we just went back in circles.
I bought the PS4 Pro on day one. 4K TVs were getting widespread and just the menu alone, I felt as if someone wiped vaseline off my face. Thats how big of a difference I felt when going for the PRO. It mattered, games loaded faster, some had boost features, bigger HDD etc. Now theres rumors that maybe even GTA 6 wont run at 60fps on PRO, that there is a CPU bottleneck that just wont make much of a difference to the other hardware boost. Not to mention, in probably 2 years time from the release of the PS5 PRO, PS6 will come out (will be 6 years by then). The fact is PS4 came out already with lower HW which is not the case for the PS5. We barely scratched the surface, still a bunch of cross gen titles. We dont need any boost, we need better games. I dont remember reading how games are stuttering or having a hard time to run on the PS5...if some of them do, its because of incompetent developers (suicide squad etc), not because the hardware is showing its age.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Is it possible that PS5 Pro adds “4 game instant switching” like Xbox?
I remember Sony said they were working on it….but I guess it’s not technically feasible on base PS5?
That would be a great QOL enhancement
I remember Sony said they were working on it….but I guess it’s not technically feasible on base PS5?
That would be a great QOL enhancement
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Codeblew
Member
What are you talking about? Or are you just trolling? Most PS5 games currently have a 60 fps mode...
ShadyAcshuns
Member
I was talking about what DF said about GTAVI.
playsaves3
Banned
I’d say the cpu is a far bigger problem for handling ray tracing the gpu can handle raytracing as long it’s not native 4k whereas the cpu will die even at 720p
Codeblew
Member
Well, give some context next time. Otherwise it just sounds like random blathering.
playsaves3
Banned
And why isn’t it possible couldn’t they make lower level extra ram for os tasks
SportsFan581
Member
I was referring to your point that the game was GPU bound on the console rather than CPU bound. It's obvious that isn't the case with Starfield. Though I'm sure they did push the graphics as far as they could for the 30fps target and those settings may have maxed out the 6700 which theoretically is weaker than the XSX GPU. Parts of the game running at something doesn't change the fact that parts of it didn't run at that, hence the 30fps cap. It's poor form to have a framerate all over the place, when I said it wasn't hitting 60 I was referring to an acceptable average, it wasn't hitting 60 in a way that Bethesda though was a good experience for players.
I still think it was the right move by them. When you look at something like Jedi Survivor, the poor state of the 60fps mode completely overshadowed the performance of the 30fps mode in the early going (in terms of word of mouth). I'm speaking of pure rendered frames also, if you start to introduce fake frames into the picture that is a different discussion.
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playsaves3
Banned
You got my thoughts down exactly
playsaves3
Banned
No way they can get away with 699 or even 599 with these specs literally no way
SportsFan581
Member
@
P
playsaves3
while it might not seem to be my ultimate wish list for a mid-gen system or yours, I wouldn't undersell it that bad. I think the 45% GPU upgrade and the upscaling tech could be quite transformative in the 60fps modes we are already getting, and anything extra on the CPU certainly isn't going to hurt anything. For someone just getting a PS5, an extra $100 for better 60fps modes might be worth the cost, along with adding some features to the 30fps (though it would surprise me if this is as noticeable to the average player with no zoom).
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Mister Wolf
Member
Is the bandwidth increase enough to get Dragon's Dogma 2 running at 60fps outside the cities?
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The game is CPU bound in cities when there are a lot of NPCs.
Richard's testing is retarded because he settled for FSR2 quality at 1440p so 1080p. Had he pushed it down to FSR2 performance he wouldnt have seen those GPU bound drops. He has no idea how to test this shit.
Bethesda already told us that there are times where the games hits 60 fps even on the series x at 4k fsr 2 quality. But because they are CPU bound in the cities they couldnt offer a mode that goes from 30 fps in cities to 60 fps indoors.
nordique
Member
Relatively speaking, minor - compared to 4K, hdr
Again, will wait and see the finished product and for what price they launch it
playsaves3
Banned
the ps5 base should have already been using zen 3 pro should be zen 4 3d or zen 5 base
playsaves3
Banned
a lot of damage control from you in all threads for anything CPU related its people like you that got us the ps5 CPU instead of the one we should have got
playsaves3
Banned
I'm disappointed cause my only want for the pro was to double the frame rate for each mode it has whether quality or performance and these specs definitely cant do that unless its a heavy rt title like avatar
JerryinSoCal
Member
Even if it doesn't get GTA to 60 it'll probably get it to 40 and for people with a tv that can take advantage of that it may be compelling. Regardless it'll be the best version of the game available at launch.
Mister Wolf
Member
They went cheap on the CPU and still expect you to pay a premium.
Snake29
Banned
And nobody will care.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
HDR also available on the base console last generation, it was not a Pro only benefit.
I have to say that it is not as minor. For some games RT reflections are game changing immersion factor wise. Still, we will see. Hopefully inflation does not bite too too hard.
Also, it helps temper one’s expectations with Pro consoles to think about the way manufacturing tech (Moore’s Law basically) advances more and more slowly each time we pass a major milestone and the cost of shifting to new manufacturing tech and designing / manufacturing with it grows more and more each time (28nm -> 16nm -> 10nm -> 7nm / 6nm -> 5nm / 4nm -> 3 nm).
Generations ought to be longer to have more meaningful jumps mid generation upgrades are going to be more and more difficult to be major bumps each new generation (IMHO we can think of it as a HW performance improvement per $ * console size, where we know cost is influenced by inflation but there is a strong resistance for either to increase a lot if you want mass adoption).
Bernardougf
Member
Yeah ... IF MS is aiming for a monster system overall as soon as 2025 ... it just became a lot more interesting... because with the Pro sony will only launch the ps6 in 2028/29... that would give MS 3 to 4 years in the market with the clear better multiplatform machine.
They just need to make everybody know what they are doing before the Pro releases... as soon as Sony officially announces the Pro ...Ms announces the Next Box and timetable for the launch.
Sony : here buy now this 15 TF machine who will give you a little better resolution and Rt perfomance will go from mediocre to just meh. While keeping the same so-so CPU For 599. Who maybe or maybe not (probably not) will play GTA 6 at 60 fps.
MS.: Wait X months and buy this monster 30 - 40 TF console and play wtf you want at 60 fps, 4k and good RT.
You know what ? Coundnt care less for the series X ... BUT... in this scenario? I would truly consider buying the next xbox...
Any news
HeisenbergFX4
?
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
It doesn’t matter if they do. The Gen is over and a mega monster box is going to be super expensive and more niche.
At best the specs may be around 50% higher than PS5 Pro, just like the One X
Look how little the One X mattered. Truth is anyone that truly cares about having a monster amount of power has that on PC already if they want it
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
They went cheap on the dessert and they still expect me to pay for wine and the main course. Unbelievable!
Bernardougf
Member
Maybe is because I play on consoles.. and RT is not on par with what you can get at the top end PC... but I havent see one game, just one, running in the PS5, that I would accept exchange 60 fps for the top RT implementations at 30 fps .... know whats been game changing for me ? Finally knowing what is to play at 60 fps most of the titles.. there is no going back to 30 fps crap gaming... and nothing graphically they showed me untill now has convinced me otherwise
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Lagspike_exe
Member
Those are smaller compared to Pro specs. TDP alone would put this over 300W on N6. Extremely unlikely.
Bernardougf
Member
Well ps5 Pro is a more niche produt as the ps4 pro was... Im talking hypothetical scenario here... and people should stop with this "want more power go PC" when talking in a PRO console topic...
Its a niche product discussion in a niche forum....everybody is looking for more power when thinking in buying something like this instead of the base model.
And yes this gen is over... MS as been hinted is rushing a new gen ... a new gen with a super powerfull console in 2025 sure see more palatable as an upgrade until the ps6 launches instead of buying this gimped 30 fps machine sony is putting out. To my eyes obviously. Anybody can have their opinios.
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Ashamam
Member
Are you suggesting a next gen xbox in 2025? You realise they have to design the thing get it validated for manufacturing and book capacity? The only way they get a next generation Xbox out in 2025 is if its not an Xbox, its a PC. PC in a custom enclosure with an XBOX label slapped on it, but not a purpose built APU.
2026 is enough of a stretch and would potentially compromise elements of design and QA.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Find the differences:
Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed
Digital Foundry has the specs, has seen it running, and has talked to the people who built it.www.eurogamer.net
"All signs point to the upclocked Jaguar cores we find in Xbox One, and Scorpio's CPU set-up is indeed an evolution of that tech, but subject to extensive customisation and the offloading of key tasks to dedicated hardware."
Scorpio is console hardware pushed to a new level
Opinion and analysis from Digital Foundry's Rich Leadbetter.
Scorpio is console hardware pushed to a new level
Opinion and analysis from Digital Foundry's Rich Leadbetter, based on our exclusive deep dive with Microsoft on the next Xbox's tech.www.eurogamer.net
You guys need to not be so hurt by this. Look at the raw difference.
Ps5 Pro. Same memory qty but a Bit faster. 10 percent cpu speed boost if you reduce gpu power by 1 percent. A mere 45 percent gpu raster performance. In reality 16.5 tf vs 10. Something on the original.
X1x. Moving from shite 8gb ddr3 to 12gb of super fast memory at the time.
33 percent cpu boost.
Over 4 times the graphical performance of the original xbox in the same size console as a xbox 1 s.
Xbox 1 x was an absolute beast in design and power delivery for the time.
And you all are getting butt hurt over digital foundry?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
If they plan it for 2025, unless they price it a lot higher, you are setting yourself up for disappointment or over excitement over paper specs (12 TFLOPS vs 9 TFLOPS because of variable clocks all over again).
15 TFLOPS now? Loosing 2.5 TFLOPS every few days or so
? 2-4x faster RT is just a mex improvement. Dismissive of anything else the dev docs (which for the last 20+ year no dev ever called them anything but pragmatic or maybe even too “realistic”). Truly unbiased . We will see if it is $599 (something tells me you expect MS to massively outspec it at $400 or something
).Yep, back to the pre Xbox One and XSX|S launches reality setting in expectations and definitely fair and balanced
.