Vick
Member
But DLSS is "magic", or at least that's what it became over the years.
Why do you think PSSR even exists brother?
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Digital Foundry - Upscaling Face-Off: PS5 Pro PSSR vs PC DLSS/FSR 3.1 in Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
- Thread starter Gaiff
- Start date
Why do you think PSSR even exists brother?
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
That's kind of the whole point. You're not supposed to see a difference with AI upscaling. If you see a difference then there's a problem and it's not doing its job.
But you're correct, the real question and the real thing we're going to experience differently is the framerates. The whole goal of the ai upscaling is lower internal resolution that we can't tell is lower, but at higher framerates. To have this discussion without framerates is bonkers...
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
I honestly expect the true power of it to be felt long after the Pro has launched. These starter games (as I call them) are just a toe dip in the water, but I expect it to be good nonetheless!
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I wouldn't say it failed. It set the foundation of DLSS 3.7 now.
Tech iterates like this, and it's fine. It's a good thing.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Why shouldn't we? We're seeing the 1st iteration of two technologies. Nothing weird about that.
Radical_3d
Member
It arrived about seven years ago. I hate nVidia’s greed as much as the next bloke but credit where is due.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I'm kind of the fence between the two.
To compare to DLSS 1.0 is a bit misleading. It's DLSS in name only. Kind of how FSR4 will be completely different than FSR1-3.
That being said, it'll be interesting to see how far PSSR comes on the PS6 in 4 years.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No.
So then you'd have both GPUs capped at 60fps. How the hell do you determine the cost of PSSR?
The point of the video is to compare the quality of the upscalers. I don't even think DF has compared the performance cost of DLSS vs FSR. I know Hardware Unboxed did because they were accused of being biased and when they did test it out, the results were predictably insanely boring because they performed the exact same 90% of the time. I suspect it will be a similar story with PSSR as the documents state it takes about 2ms to upscale from 1080p to 4K and that's the same ballpark as DLSS. The performance comparison, if they do one, will be much less interesting than you think.
Besides wasting our time with this pointless tangent, how does the quality of PSSR compare to DLSS to you?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Eh, not really the foundation. It's a totally different method. It was a spatial upscaler that relied on 16K sample images of the games. The method was actually way cooler and more "advanced" than DLSS 2, which is just an AI-accelerated temporal upscaler. It just didn't work for games.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So now people can "easily see" a difference they could not see in the other R&C thread. When it's even less of a difference in this one
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OverHeat
« generous god »
Just imagine what a card with more tensor core would do
XXL
Member
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Im still struggling to see why you rated DLSS more than PSSR
Looks almost identical in most cases
ShakenG
Member
"Far superior" is a bit of a stretch. But better, sure.
Schmendrick
Member
For a v1.0 that is a tremendous result. Good for the consoleros.
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Which is fantastic achievement by Sony!
Radical_3d
Member
Settings should be the same.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Stop trying to play naive here. Yes, there is going to be a card that perform similarly to the PS5 Pro.
No you wouldn't cap the framerate. You would let the game run uncapped on PC to see how much more breathing room the card has on PC than PS5 Pro and we'll get better understanding of this with uncapped games on PS5 Pro as well.
It's called benchmarking... seems a novel idea for you.
Again, you can not tell the quality of upscalers without considering their cost to performance. They absolutely have compared the cost of DLSS and FSR.
If PSSR performs similarly to DLSS, that's a huge win for Sony given the value conversation.
It looks pretty comparable, but again, I think it's silly to look at just quality. When I play games I don't put the controller down and walk up to the tv and see how it looks. Quality is always adjacent to performance. You can't have one without the other. That's not what a game is... It's a two sided coin.
Think about it from this perspective. If this was running at 30 fps instead of 60 fps, but the PC image was running at 60 fps, who cares about the image quality? The PS5 without ai upscaling can look that good just in fidelity mode. They've proven that with Ollie's video. So what is the point of AI upscaling if not a conversation about performance?
No one cares about AI upscaling just to AI upscale... That's not the goal in and of itself. Please someone tell me if I'm wrong here.
I'm not Alex from DF, I said it's a summary. Going off the video PSSR is very close, and that's great but the small issues like the delayed reflections and such stop it from taking the crown, these could be improved in future iterations though.
sachos
Member
PSSR looks really good vs FSR 3.1 and thats with a high internal resolution, the difference in 3rd party running at 1080p will be really big.
Really hope they can improve on the temporal instability, its quite telling when compared to DLSS.
But i still mantain there is something weird going on with the PSSR implementation on this game, looks way too soft to me when taking into account its upscaling from higher than Quality Setting internal resolution. Im actually kinda disappointed, hope they can patch some of those issues out before launch.
Really hope they can improve on the temporal instability, its quite telling when compared to DLSS.
But i still mantain there is something weird going on with the PSSR implementation on this game, looks way too soft to me when taking into account its upscaling from higher than Quality Setting internal resolution. Im actually kinda disappointed, hope they can patch some of those issues out before launch.
Vick
Member
I'd be personally interested in seeing what Cerny would be able to achieve on 3K + closed systems.Just imagine what a card with more tensor core would do
Shame that'll never happen though.
XXL
Member
PSSR is indeed the 2nd best thing right after DLSS, it's better than XeSS and way way better than FSR.
I think Sony will still release a few improvements this gen and the gap between DLSS and PSSR will shrink further. It just needs a little bit more polish (stability + ray tracing).
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I've been thinking about whether Sony might ever get into the video card business doing forks of AMD video cards. Or if we might see another partnership like with STI with Toshiba and IBM.
DJ12
Member
Dont forget this is PSSR 1.0 beta. Pretty much identical without being zoomed in, dlss better with some stuff PSSR better with others.
I'd be embarrassed if I was Nvidia, but we all know they probably could've started as good as PSSR, but held back to keep suckas buying new GPUs
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Radical_3d
Member
If FSR 4 is half as good as PSSR I’m going team red. See you never, Huang.DLSS and PSSR going blow for blow
Meanwhile FSR
Probably I’ll see them again. And next year in the Switch. Oh god, I’m an irresponsible consumer, am I?
bender
What time is it?
DLSS and PSSR going blow for blow
Meanwhile FSR
OverHeat
« generous god »
Technology evolve over the years…
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Looks decent enough. They need to work on the pixel crawl, blurriness, missed geometry edges, and laggy reflections. No doubt they'll be continually refining it. Even in it's early form, PSSR would be a miracle for a game like FFXVI where performance mode used FSR1 and dropped as low as 720p iirc.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
This is why AMD and Nvidia are shifting focus away from high end video cards...
The PS6 has to deliver more than just better visuals, but you can see Sony's thinking has already pushed into that area with the Dual Sense, 3D Audio, NVME SSD. You have to attack pain points and you have to innovate.
PSSR is part of that discussion.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
"going to be". It doesn't exist yet. Spoilers: It's not the 4070.
Mate, they don't have a PS5 Pro in handy. They can't uncap the frame rate by toggling on the 120Hz mode. This is all we got for now. It's a comparison of the quality. The one about performance will probably come later when they inevitably do RTX 4070 vs PS5 Pro or the 8700 XT (or whatever its name is) vs the PS5 Pro.
NVIDIA isn't.
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OverHeat
« generous god »
Nvidia 5090 say what?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
diffusionx
Gold Member
PSSR is better
Radical_3d
Member
What do you mean? From what I understand,DLSS isn't trained to resolve a better image quality like it was initially designed to, it's just a fancier version of TAA.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
How much more performance will the 4070 have over the PS5 Pro..?
I didn't say uncap the PS5 Pro, I said uncap the PC.
When you have two uncapped games on PS5 Pro and PC we're going to have pretty good understanding of benchmarking across the two.
They are. They're still releasing high end GPUs but that's not where their focus is. Their focus is in AI chipsets.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I'm not saying Nvidia isn't going to put out high end video cards. What I'm saying is it isn't their focus. They're not a primarily gaming company anymore.
You're going to see diminishing returns on Nvidia GPUs in the future.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
jagged edges? lol you want clean lines not a blurry mess.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The prices won't be tho
owandeseis
Member
The visual difference between PSSR and FSR is crazy, can't wait to see it in the third party console games.
PSSR still has some blurriness and some image "shaking"? in motion, not the most stable image but still very good, DLSS 3.7 is simply crazy stable, no matter if you stand still or move, the image is ridiculously clear, i used it in SH2 and even in balanced mode it feels perfect.
Wonder if we're getting DLSS 4 in January?
PSSR still has some blurriness and some image "shaking"? in motion, not the most stable image but still very good, DLSS 3.7 is simply crazy stable, no matter if you stand still or move, the image is ridiculously clear, i used it in SH2 and even in balanced mode it feels perfect.
Wonder if we're getting DLSS 4 in January?