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[BennyBlanco]

Crazed fandom is stupid. I don’t care for ND or its output and will be completely skipping this, but I don’t see why I’d attack anyone working on it personally. They make a product, buy it or not.

Exactly. I’m not mad at Neil Druckmann or ranting and raving about him. I just don’t care for his games and don’t really pay them any mind. I feel exactly the same way about NBA2k as I do Naughty Dog. I know what the games are, Ive played them in the past, i know they’re popular, i just don’t care.

 

[{insert code here}]

Sheesh, he's doing the "omg you [disagree/have a different opinion/don't like the thing I like] therefore you're deranged (or this, that, the other)". This is crazy! I used to follow Colin at IGN and always thought he was one of the more rational people in the "industry".

People just don't like Druckman or his work, what is so hard to understand about that? People are free to like and dislike whatever they want and they're also free to express those opinions. It doesn't mean they're deranged or part of a cult. When people ragged on the Xbone did anybody call those people deranged? Fanboys sure, but I don't recall anyone ever labeling them as a cult.

Someone needs to write a book on how Sony got so many people to cape for them and theirs without having to spend a single dollar on payroll. It's fucking wild man.

 

[Clear]

the difference is we will actually vote with our wallets, whereas the Rowling haters still spend billions of dollars on Harry Potter shit every year

Its still fixating on a single high-profile individual as a hate object.

I first noticed it when Azz, the moron who runs "Heel Vs Babyface", blamed Druckmann *personally* for the DMCA takedowns following the TLOU2 leaks. As if he's the emperor of Sony//Playstation/Naughty Dog and literally nobody else could possibly have a hand in the decision making process! And he's still going on about this bullshit claim as if its proven truth 4 years on!

Classic "derangement" syndrome!

People need to stop picking sides and instead engage in some basic crttical thinking; its the only way out of this insanity.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Samus Aran is a "sexy badass? WTF :lol

Exactly when do you play Metroid where she looks like a sexy badass?

I think the design is fine - Naughty Dog is going for a grounded/mature look. Makes sense to me that a female bounty hunter would not be overly attractive. Her personality seemed good in the trailer. It may not resonate with you, I don't understand why just looking at the character you'd think the game is going to be terrible though and hope it flops.

 

[mrqs]

You are predicting the success or failure of this one game.

We are really debating the future of the industry. What will or what won't fly on average.

If we make it painful for even the little things to be added in, they will think twice about the big things.

Did I say the quiet part out loud?

I just want developers to work on what they want to work. The only people who should concern themselves with sales are the executives.

 

[Justin9mm]

It's the market readjusting itself. We'll see how much Druckmann's decision to go full steam ahead with "modern audiences" pays off in the long run.

I absolutely hate forced woke shit but you are part of the problem with your 'modern audiences' terminology. You know absolutely nothing about this game except a female lead with a shaved head.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

There we go with "modern audiences" when all we know is the game features a female lead with a shaved head.

If the game is quality - which I expect it will be - the arguments about some vocal minority yelling at the cloud because the game isn't 100% one demographic go completely out the window. It'll do well.

Of COURSE it will be a good game that "does well" but did you really just ask whether this will be for "modern audiences"?? Have you played Last of Us 2 or listened to any of Druckmans comments over the last 5 years? Come on man.

 

[FunkMiller]

I'm against wokeism but I can't see that code you are pointing at. Maybe being under DEI fire for too much time (that really happened actually) made many people too much sensitive about some character design aspects

Jordan is absolutely cut from the same cloth as many recent female video game protagonists. If you're a video games fan, you can't possibly have not seen similar girl boss tropes used many times in the past few years.

Note: this is not a commentary on whether Naughty Dog should have a main character of this type. That is their prerogative. However, choosing to position that main character in a way that echoes the recent trends in western gaming development is something that naturally creates controversy. Whether this is of detriment to the game's sales or not remains to be seen.

 

[Woggleman]

TLOU2 is not even woke.

 

[PeteBull]

Exactly. I’m not mad at Neil Druckmann or ranting and raving about him. I just don’t care for his games and don’t really pay them any mind. I feel exactly the same way about NBA2k as I do Naughty Dog. I know what the games are, Ive played them in the past, i know they’re popular, i just don’t care.

I dont play those games, but having a taste of good old "pre DEI" ND i just know how those games could have turned out w/o all the wokeism, and its big shame from my pov.
With genres i dont like its different, then u can be neutral coz u know no matter how good/bad game will be- u wont give a damn either way, with games u actually care about its whole different story- coz u actually want them to be good, and game pushing agenda literally gets worse coz of that to me- how much worse-depends how much of agenda pushing is going on ofc.

TLDR: minecraft/nba2k/fifa and other genres i got no interest in can be as woke as possible since i know i wont be playing them either way, but new IP from ND had such a great potential it broke my heart knowing right from the very first trailer it will be so offputing i wont be able to enjoy it

 

[tmlDan]

double post

 

[tmlDan]

i really do not understand why people hate him so much.

People says he's pretentious yet he barely talks and when he does its the same talking points 99% of game devs make, some say he's woke but he created the first game that people are literally a lunatic about because Joel is like their IRL dad. He makes games that are popular and isn't forcing people to play it, so don't? If its about masculine women, don't play them? Instead of HATE maybe just ignore and move on? Support games that aren't following that narrative.

I really don't understand the mental illness behind this stuff

It's really got me thinking, I think people who hate him actually love him because ND is a premier studio. They're yelling at him because if he dropped his "political messaging" in games they would go nuts for it. Otherwise, why not just ignore it?

 

[Banjo64]

The Last of Us Part II Reviews

Five years after their dangerous journey across the post-pandemic United States, Ellie and Joel have settled down in Jackson, Wyoming. Living amongst a thriving community of survivors has allowed them peace and stability, despite the constant threat of the infected and other, more desperate...

www.metacritic.com

Uncharted 4: A Thief's End Reviews

Set 3 years after the events of Uncharted 3, Nathan Drake has apparently left the world of fortune hunting behind. However, it doesn’t take long for adventure to come calling when Drake’s brother, Sam, re-emerges asking for his help to save his own life and offering an adventure Drake cannot...

www.metacritic.com

Yes, everyone is deranged but my minority screeching opinion is right. Derp.

Too easy son.

 

[KimDongHwan]

i really do not understand why people hate him so much.

People says he's pretentious yet he barely talks and when he does its the same talking points 99% of game devs make, some say he's woke but he created the first game that people are literally a lunatic about because Joel is like their IRL dad. He makes games that are popular and isn't forcing people to play it, so don't? If its about masculine women, don't play them? Instead of HATE maybe just ignore and move on? Support games that aren't following that narrative.

I really don't understand the mental illness behind this stuff

I think I said something similar in another post, the reason people care on this instance is that when you say "ignore and move on", you cannot just ignore Druckmann, you then have to ignore Naughty Dog, which for many people it was one of the greatest devs out there. So imagine having to skip your favorite developer because of a single person's creative decisions/political agenda.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Too easy son.

Too easy to believe a bunch of outburst reviews rather than actual reviews by people?

Oh no they killed my favorite character Joel, game is a 1.0 out of 10

 

[Humdinger]

Does anyone remember Returnal?

There were very little complaints about her looks

I remember some people making fun of her, calling her "Space Karen."

Oh yeah, that was me.

 

[tmlDan]

I think I said something similar in another post, the reason people care on this instance is that when you say "ignore and move on", you cannot just ignore Druckmann, you then have to ignore Naughty Dog, which for many people it was one of the greatest devs out there. So imagine having to skip your favorite developer because of a single person's creative decisions/political agenda.

yea i addressed that in my edited post, but Neil has been a part of the studio a long time and has made some big decisions on games people love and why the games are so good.

If he dropped his push on narrative, which Sony might force him to do if this flops, people might still get what people want with him there

 

[Banjo64]

Too easy to believe a bunch of outburst reviews rather than actual reviews by people?

Oh no they killed my favorite character Joel, game is a 1.0 out of 10

Too easy.

Textbook example of what I was talking about:

It’s sad that the defenders just can’t accept that for a lot of people ND have completely lost relevancy and for legitimate reasons.

 

[{insert code here}]

i really do not understand why people hate him so much.

People says he's pretentious yet he barely talks and when he does its the same talking points 99% of game devs make, some say he's woke but he created the first game that people are literally a lunatic about because Joel is like their IRL dad. He makes games that are popular and isn't forcing people to play it, so don't? If its about masculine women, don't play them? Instead of HATE maybe just ignore and move on? Support games that aren't following that narrative.

I really don't understand the mental illness behind this stuff

Garbage take. Just because someone doesn't like something does not automatically mean they hate it. There's an entire spectrum in there.

And disliking something (or someone) does not equate to mental illness and you know that mate. This has gotta be the stupidest post I've read in a long time.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Too easy.

Textbook example of what I was talking about:

It’s sad that the defenders just can’t accept that for a lot of people ND have completely lost relevancy and for legitimate reasons.

Sure, a lot of people, they can go play something else.

The rest of the tens of millions of players, we'll be feasting on objectively great games and not get our panties in a twist because it stars a female lead

 

[tmlDan]

Garbage take. Just because someone doesn't like something does not automatically mean they hate it. There's an entire spectrum in there.

And disliking something (or someone) does not equate to mental illness and you know that mate. This has gotta be the stupidest post I've read in a long time.

when it revolves around video games it does, this isnt politics, this isnt your real job, this isnt related to your family or health. It's games. If you care so much you spend your whole days commenting and disliking things about a single game dev then yea, its mental illness..."mate"

 

[Banjo64]

Sure, a lot of people, they can go play something else.

The rest of the tens of millions of players, we'll be feasting on objectively great games and not get our panties in a twist because it stars a female lead

Good for you. I didn’t say no one enjoys the games

 

[Gaiff]

I absolutely hate forced woke shit but you are part of the problem with your 'modern audiences' terminology. You know absolutely nothing about this game except a female lead with a shaved head.

Because ND hasn’t been following that trend for years now. I need to wait for them to keep doing what they’ve been doing since after Uncharted 4.

 

[Wildebeest]

Naughty Dog fans could have been shown a blurry Polaroid photo of a dirty sock, and they would come to the conclusion that their next game has unbelievable potential. They just don't make my sort of game, so I don't care other than to see where trends are going.

 

[GermanZepp]

I don't get it.

Dude, 100% you don't get (it has been told to you so many times)

From absolutely an infinite amount of ways you can design a character/trailer they chose one that the majority of who watched the trailer didn't like. Period.

We know sony devs like sprinkle (in a not subtle way) the Disney inclusive charade; we know drukman previous work. In this day an age that's a political statement as obvious has if the bald chick pumped "all star" from smash mouth and put a Maga hat.

It is what it is.

If the game ends up being a light hearted fun game without bigot sandwiches or bossgirl stupidity themes I might buy it. ND make solid games with top production values.

 

[diffusionx]

Sad to see people like OP simp for this game dev, he can't stand the fact that people do not like this guy or his work, he just needs everyone to think badass girl boss trope #34489223549823 is the greatest thing ever.

And yea people are going to discuss that they do not like this game dev, because it's a videogame discussion board.

 

[xanaum]

There's no free pass for anyone in this world. Just look at recent examples: who would've thought that Rocksteady Studios, creators of the brilliant Batman trilogy, would release that Suicide Squad game? Who expected the next title after the incredible Dragon Age: Inquisition to be that disaster from BioWare, Dragon Age: Veilguard? Ubisoft seems to be heading down the same path, and even Sony itself with Concord.


The loss of trust isn't people's fault it's because of countless proven examples. The blame lies with parts of the gaming industry that flirt with failure, clinging to ideas that age like milk left out in the sun.


Take Naughty Dog, for example. Their last title included ridiculous issues like trans and lesbian dilemmas in a post-apocalyptic world where survival should matter more than anything else. While they delivered a technically excellent game, it showed their alignment with outdated themes. Now, they seem to be mocking people's opinions with their next title, doubling down even though people are even more fed up with this woke nonsense right now.


So no, Naughty Dog and Neil Druckmann don't get the benefit of the doubt based on their past positive track record. They should be more responsible because families depend on the commercial success of their games to keep their jobs.

 

[mitch1971]

I'd love to take a trip in some of your time travelling vehicles.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I dont play those games, but having a taste of good old "pre DEI" ND i just know how those games could have turned out w/o all the wokeism, and its big shame from my pov.
With genres i dont like its different, then u can be neutral coz u know no matter how good/bad game will be- u wont give a damn either way, with games u actually care about its whole different story- coz u actually want them to be good, and game pushing agenda literally gets worse coz of that to me- how much worse-depends how much of agenda pushing is going on ofc.

TLDR: minecraft/nba2k/fifa and other genres i got no interest in can be as woke as possible since i know i wont be playing them either way, but new IP from ND had such a great potential it broke my heart knowing right from the very first trailer it will be so offputing i wont be able to enjoy it

Yeah I hear you. I used to love Bioware. It sucks.

 

[PeteBull]

Too easy to believe a bunch of outburst reviews rather than actual reviews by people?

Oh no they killed my favorite character Joel, game is a 1.0 out of 10

I wonder why Nintendo didnt kill mario in so many of their games, according to u its no big deal to kill beloved protagonist.
Even Kojima aknowledged his mgs2 stunt with snake/raiden and we got proper snake in all mgs games from then on, on top of raiden's redemption in mgr.
When we did get to play as masterchief in only 3 out of 15 misions of halo5 and game got terrible reviews we got him back in halo infinite

Ofc it mattered, and not lil, that Joel(basically each of us, players) got manhandled and killed by shehulk biatch in tlou2, what is even worse, we got forced to play and like that shehulk biatch after, and in the end ellie didnt even properly fucked her up for good to give us even tiny bit of peace of mind.

That is the difference vs TLOU, we knew exactly what Joel did in the end, and we fully supported it, while TLOU2 was basically game forcing u to be a cuck.

 

[Madflavor]

Druckmann and ND are credited with an absolutely stellar track record and have not missed,

With game critics he hasn't missed, but gamers is another story. He's a very divisive figure, and not everyone liked TLoU Part 2. I'd wage bets that Part 3 is going to have less launch sales than Part 2. A lot of fans were burned by Part 2 and some of them aren't coming back. You can disagree with me, and that's fine, but I'm very confident TLoU lost a portion of it's fanbase.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I wonder why Nintendo didnt kill mario in so many of their games, according to u its no big deal to kill beloved protagonist.
Even Kojima aknowledged his mgs2 stunt with snake/raiden and we got proper snake in all mgs games from then on, on top of raiden's redemption in mgr.
When we did get to play as masterchief in only 3 out of 15 misions of halo5 and game got terrible reviews we got him back in halo infinite

Ofc it mattered, and not lil, that Joel(basically each of us, players) got manhandled and killed by shehulk biatch in tlou2, what is even worse, we got forced to play and like that shehulk biatch after, and in the end ellie didnt even properly fucked her up for good to give us even tiny bit of peace of mind.

That is the difference vs TLOU, we knew exactly what Joel did in the end, and we fully supported it, while TLOU2 was basically game forcing u to be a cuck.

Who is we?

I didn't support Joel, though I understand why he selfishly did what he did. Joel certainly isn't a goddamn saint in the slightest

 

[balls of snow]

The comment section on the video is exactly as I expected. People need to step back and really think about why they're so angry about something so dumb.

I can't think of how anyone can take a step back and not think all of this as a deranged overreaction. It's really hard not to see all this anger as childish.

If you have problems with anything, there are better ways to vent out and have your voice heard.

Brain rot is real.
Would be interesting when ND wins goty again with Intergalactic. Im sure they will act exactly as we all suspected they will act.

 

[Woggleman]

Joel is not Mario or Batman. He is somebody who's actions caught up with him. Tlou world is one where nobody is safe.

 

[Fake]

You guys really love this man balls....

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

I can in a way understand the backlash. People are tired of smug girl bosses and I think that's where the main criticism comes from rather than her simply being bald. But at the same time, I would like to remind people that unlike say "Captain Marvel" movies, UC:Lost legacy, while having something akin to girl bosses was at the end filled with relatable characters and narratives. The game was charming especially with regards to the relationship (platonic) between its characters and their motives. The characters truly underwent a journey wherein they had setbacks and triumphs.

While I have not played tlou2, I doubt that the game protagonists in it didn't have setbacks and failures. Moments of learning and reflection that shows the humanity in the character with them actually commiting mistakes.

That's what makes ND different than Marvel for me personally. ND characters are never mary stu. They are humans who are not always correct and regularly commit mistakes. They aren't "perfect human beings" who are simply assholes and somehow always end up in the right ( ala Captain Marvel). Intergalactic has a girl boss but I doubt she will be the same league as Captain Marvel, Veilguard trans chic, etc. Also, I don't recall ND ever giving lectures in their games.

 

[Radical_3d]

A shameless back rub. Whatever.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

You guys really love this man balls....

Same can be said for people on this forum who are on his nuts for other stupid reasons.

 

[balls of snow]

Also didnt we go through the same thing with Ghost of Yotei. Looks like the list of approved 'gamer' games is getting thin.

 

[EDMIX]

I'm convinced by the end of 2025 most on here who keep making these accusations of what they think is "woke" won't even have a fucking publisher to buy a game from lol

My God any fucking thing seems to be woke to some of you to the point of you might as well not play any fucking game it's starting to sound like any one of us can point out something in your favorite game that constitutes as "woke" based on what some of you have stated....

At the end of the day developers are free to create whatever the fuck they want, play a different game if their freedom to create upsets you or make your own game.

Capcom went from CAPGOD ie "OMG, that is how you make a game bro, take a HINT THE WEST" to "WOW, Capcom is woke no broz, have you seen Dead Rising Remake, great now Monster Hunter has females and Resident Evil has females aka GIRL BOZZES fighting zombies, never mind bro that isn't realistic" lol

Jordan is absolutely cut from the same cloth as many recent female video game protagonists. If you're a video games fan, you can't possibly have not seen similar girl boss tropes used many times in the past few years.

Note: this is not a commentary on whether Naughty Dog should have a main character of this type. That is their prerogative. However, choosing to position that main character in a way that echoes the recent trends in western gaming development is something that naturally creates controversy. Whether this is of detriment to the game's sales or not remains to be seen.

I don't know about all that I think the problem with this is this claim that this is some recent trope or trend seems to be false. This is not some brand new idea technically this is existed since the beginning of gaming because we've had characters in Metroid or Peach from Mario or the main character in fear effect or Tomb Raider or Parasite Eve or Dino Crisis or even the Resident Evil series I mean the thing you're talking about is more so indicative of just gaming itself prior to this time frame it's not like back in the day you fucking saw a game ultra character-based on gender in regards to their ability

As in playing street fighter or Tekken you didn't have a health bar that was lower for the female characters

It's not like in Resident Evil that aiming was worse for the females or they had less life or something strange like this

Most of those games simply had female characters as just avatars that could do the exact same thing the other characters could do, What you're talking about in regards to any exaggerated strength or ability doesn't seem like it's out of the ordinary in gaming in general as in the idea of this "girl boss" thing seems to be some shit people have said more than proven as in what exact fucking feature are you talking about that these characters are doing that did not exist prior?

Like can you provide something these characters are doing that didn't exist in gaming prior?

balls of snow true, by the time they are done, they will have attacked Nintendo, CDPR, Insomniac, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Ubisoft, EA, MS/Activision, Sega, Capcom, Square..basically no game is allowed to be liked or played, everything is "woke" lol

They'll be out here trying to convince people that Spiderman 3, Cyberpunk 2, Witcher 4, GTAVI etc are all bad and no fun at all, but hey Iron Monkey: Shadow Duel Dynasty Revenge in Steam early access is the best game, cause they stuck it to the woke!!! lol I kid you not, someone literally tried to make a argument for Space Marine 2 to be GOTY...in a year with a Zelda, Final Fantasy and Astrobot

 

[Physiognomonics]

I don't know if this will sell well or not, but currently my expectations are for this to sell below TLoU2, will still depend on other things.

It will sell about half what TLOU2 sold.

 

[ANoa]

The comment section on the video is exactly as I expected. People need to step back and really think about why they're so angry about something so dumb.

I can't think of how anyone can take a step back and not think all of this as a deranged overreaction. It's really hard not to see all this anger as childish.

If you have problems with anything, there are better ways to vent out and have your voice heard.

I don't see anything wrong with most of the comments. People are calling out the lazy attacks against anyone critical of ND.

I see a lot more anger in the people who can't fathom that not everyone loves everything ND does. They're very upset that people took .5 seconds to click a dislike button or a minute to leave a comment (which these youtubers want in the first place "leave a comment below!").

 

[Fake]

Same can be said for people on this forum who are on his nuts for other stupid reasons.

10 topics per day make those things to people.

 

[hinch7]

Well that was a cringe watch. All three coping with games with bad rep pre launch, and this is on a brand new IP and franchise. Which doesn't have the luxury of having a solid fan and user base to fall upon.

First impressions are always important and dismissing customer critisms is always a terrible idea. No matter how big or small.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I don't see anything wrong with most of the comments. People are calling out the lazy attacks against anyone critical of ND.

I see a lot more anger in the people who can't fathom that not everyone loves everything ND does. They're very upset that people took .5 seconds to click a dislike button or a minute to leave a comment (which these youtubers want in the first place "leave a comment below!").

When the reason you are critical of ND is because a protagonist is a female with a shaved head, you've lost the plot. And that's mostly what the discussion is because that's literally all we have to go by.

 

[kiphalfton]

With the way their games actually play, can't agree more. Yes, 2 had some dialog and content that was a bit off the path but the game is magical.

"Magical"

Nothing wrong with the gameplay, but it didn't do anything new.

 

[FunkMiller]

What you're talking about in regards to any exaggerated strength or ability doesn't seem like it's out of the ordinary in gaming in general as in the idea of this "girl boss" thing seems to be some shit people have said more than proven as in what exact fucking feature are you talking about that these characters are doing that did not exist prior?

Like can you provide something these characters are doing that didn't exist in gaming prior?

?? I don't get how you can look at the gaming (and wider cultural) landscape and not see that a dominant character from recent years is of the girl boss trope that displays some, if not all of these characteristics: dominant, in control, wise cracking, not for the male gaze, cool, unfazed, in charge, masculine.

Again, it's up to Naughty Dog to decide on whoever they want to star in their next game, but it's a bit disingenuous to look at Jordan and say she doesn't conform to a very wide spread stereotype, at this point.

 

[EDMIX]

?? I don't get how you can look at the gaming (and wider cultural) landscape and not see that a dominant character from recent years is of the girl boss trope that displays some,

I don't see how you can't actually list the things you are talking about in regards to features, abilities or really any evidence to this claim...

What features do those characters have that have never existed in gaming as an idea for a main character?

You just sound like you are mad at an idea that has existing in gaming for a long time, we can make Fear Effect today and you'd claim its based on some new trend of "girl boss" or "woke"

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

?? I don't get how you can look at the gaming (and wider cultural) landscape and not see that a dominant character from recent years is of the girl boss trope that displays some, if not all of these characteristics: dominant, in control, wise cracking, not for the male gaze, cool, unfazed, in charge, masculine.

Again, it's up to Naughty Dog to decide on whoever they want to star in their next game, but it's a bit disingenuous to look at Jordan and say she doesn't conform to a very wide spread stereotype, at this point.

And does that offend you?

There's plenty of played out tropes in many games. Why do we give a pass to Metaphor? Or Elden Ring? If the thought of playing a girl boss is that offensive to you - ignore it and move on.

I frankly don't care what the gender is of the person I'm playing, I care more about the quality of the game overall.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

It’s 2024 but fuck it, I’m going to argue you guys into liking girlbosses by calling you incels and attacking classic games/movies you liked. I bet it will work this time!