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[Rykan]

Both are fantastic games and both will take home GoTY awards. It won't be a crime if one takes an award over the other.

If GoW matches the quality of GoW 2018 then I certainly agree

 

[graywolf323]

In the OG xbox days there was no lack of interesting exclusive content, the same was true until around the release of Kinect back in 2009.

Since then, 13 years ago, there has been nothing truly interesting coming from them (you can point a few exceptions here and there, but the point still stand).

it should be noted that Phil Spencer took over as head of first party studios in 2008, he's been responsible for them for 14 years now and the downslide happened under his watch

 

[MasterCornholio]

If GoW matches the quality of GoW 2018 then I certainly agree

Seems like it. I'll definitely play it to determine that. I have a feeling it's going to be extremely good though.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Those same critics gave GoW good scores too. Be careful about who you want to discredit. Perhaps you can just accept both are good games and move on?

Yes, but there's still a massive amount of bias and prejudice when it comes to critics' reviews. I'm not saying that the bias is necessarily in favor of Xbox or PS, but it's just there.

For example, I don't think Elden Ring deserves 96/100 at all. 96/100 implies that a game is basically flawless, and Elden Ring has multiple issues. Even if we disregard any subjective opinion about those issues, the game launched in a poor state in terms of performance across all consoles and PCs; it doesn't deserve those perfect 10/10 scores just because of that.

Plague Tale and Gotham Knights lost review points because of their poor performances, but Elden Ring did not. That's unfair, to say the least.

I have similar reservations when seeing Halo Infinite's review scores, when compared with other titles such as Returnal and HFW, but I'm not commenting on that because those will just be dismissed as me being biased. But my issues with the above-mentioned third-party multiplatform titles are still there.

 

[kirby007]

Well how about that, not all fanboys are lazy cunts, this one even got a job

 

[feynoob]

it should be noted that Phil Spencer took over as head of first party studios in 2008, he's been responsible for them for 14 years now and the downslide happened under his watch

MS investment started in 2014.

This is all on MS hands. Should have provided enough studios during x360, instead of chasing kinetic and TV model.

 

[Resenge]

For example, I don't think Elden Ring deserves 96/100 at all. 96/100 implies that a game is basically flawless, and Elden Ring has multiple issues. Even if we disregard any subjective opinion about those issues, the game launched in a poor state in terms of performance across all consoles and PCs; it doesn't deserve those perfect 10/10 scores just because of that.

Yeah it had performance issues but the rest of the game elevated it to such a high degree that it gets a pass I guess. You can personally dissagree with the scores but you would be in the minority. The majority loved it even with the performance issues which validates the scores I suppose.

I personally think RDR2 was overrated. But the graphics, story, art style elevates it over the slow clunky gameplay. I bounced off it due to that but I completely understand why it got the scores it did and understand I am in the minority, I just couldn't see past that gameplay and enjoy it as much as others, but thats ok.

 

[kapshin]

MS investment started in 2014.

This is all on MS hands. Should have provided enough studios during x360, instead of chasing kinetic and TV model.

"Xbox make games"

 

[SLB1904]

Seems like some will have a stroke if gow wins the goty at game awards

 

[Jibran#one]

Well I bought xbox for forza motorsport and flight sim am dissapointed motordport still hasn't released but my itch for racing game was well served by horizon 5

 

[MasterCornholio]

MS investment started in 2014.

This is all on MS hands. Should have provided enough studios during x360, instead of chasing kinetic and TV model.

It's interesting how PSVR1 didn't really impact Sonys 1st party output.

 

[feynoob]

"Xbox make games"

"You need studios to make games."

Extra 5 studios would have gave them at least 5-10 games during xbox one.

MS didn't bother with that, until Phil went to them, and make them spend money on xbox. In which he purchased tons of studios for the brand.

 

[feynoob]

It's interesting how PSVR1 didn't really impact Sonys 1st party output.

Psvr wasn't big as kinetic.

Kinect

Kinect for Xbox One
Units sold	35 million (as of October 25, 2017)

 

[Banjo64]

MS didn't bother with that, until Phil went to them, and make them spend money on xbox. In which he purchased tons of studios for the brand.

Didn’t do great with what he had before that though.

With the launch of the Xbox in 2001, Spencer joined the Xbox team and served as general manager of Microsoft Game Studios EMEA, working with Microsoft's European developers and studios such as Lionhead Studios and Rareuntil 2008

 

[feynoob]

Didn’t do great with what he had before that though.

How many studios did you think he had?

 

[Negotiator101]

Did you complain last year when the highest rated game didn't when GOTY? Or is it only when it is a PS exclusive?

Did I? What's the point you're trying to make?

 

[Topher]

Did I? What's the point you're trying to make?

Clearly, the point is that you only seem to have a problem with the highest rated game not winning GOTY when it is a PlayStation game.

 

[feynoob]

It's like people are having memory problems with Xbox studios.

343i was working on halo. The Coalition with gears, turn10 with motorsports, playground with horizon, Lionhead with fable. Rare was tasked with kinetic games.

They needed more devs. Especially with how long games take to make.

 

[Skifi28]

Seems like some will have a stroke if gow wins the goty at game awards

I don't get it tough. Is there some Universal GOTY award that is absolute and rules over all the others? Each outlet is going to have their own GOTY awards as usual so you can bet many different games will win at different places.


Edit: Ok, you said game awards which I missed. I suppose those awards are more important than others for some reason.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Psvr wasn't big as kinetic.

I don't think that matters to be honest. Sony didn't change their first party output a lot just to push it. I believe that was the point.

 

[SLB1904]

I don't get it tough. Is there some Universal GOTY award that is absolute and rules over all the others? Each outlet is going to have their own GOTY awards as usual so you can bet many different games will win at different places.


Edit: Ok, you said game awards which I missed. I suppose those awards are more important than others for some reason.

Both elden ring and gow will win shit tons of awards. Losing battle for some but oh well

 

[feynoob]

I don't think that matters to be honest. Sony didn't change their first party output a lot just to push it. I believe that was the point.

They would have, if psvr was as successful as kinetic.

Psvr sold 5m, which didn't warranty their 1st party support.

Even psvr2 isn't getting proper 1st party support.

 

[MasterCornholio]

They would have, if psvr was as successful as kinetic.

Psvr sold 5m, which didn't warranty their 1st party support.

Even psvr2 isn't getting proper 1st party support.

They still wouldn't have. I mean look at how hard Microsoft pushed Kinect in the beginning compared to Sony with PSVR1.

 

[Arachnid]

I fucking love articles like this from bigger websites. It has to get back to Microsoft/Spencer. I like to think they look at this and it lights a fire under their asses to give me more games.

In short:

 

[feynoob]

They still wouldn't have. I mean look at how hard Microsoft pushed Kinect in the beginning compared to Sony with PSVR1.

Wii existed, which is why MS pushed the kinetic.
If Sony were able to sell 20m psvr, I guarantee you, that they would invested on that device with their 1st party.

One proved the success metric, while the other didn't and was just niche.

 

[Topher]

I fucking love articles like this from bigger websites. It has to get back to Microsoft/Spencer. I like to think they look at this and it lights a fire under their asses to give me more games.

In short:

Eh....I don't see a Paul Tassi column lighting a fire under anyone's assess. Guy has built his career writing console warrior articles. Not exactly a big brained influencer in the industry.

 

[Resenge]

They would have, if psvr was as successful as kinetic.

Psvr sold 5m, which didn't warranty their 1st party support.

Even psvr2 isn't getting proper 1st party support.

669 games on this list of PSVR games and it is out of date.

Heres the list of Kinect games, 130 with a few duplicates and at least 1 unreleased from my quick count.

Saying that the Kinect (A bundled peripheral) was more successful than the PSVR is disingenuous as it's not the full picture.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Wii existed, which is why MS pushed the kinetic.
If Sony were able to sell 20m psvr, I guarantee you, that they would invested on that device with their 1st party.

One proved the success metric, while the other didn't and was just niche.

And Sony had playstation move which came out at the same time as Kinect. They still didn't push it as hard as Microsoft did with Kinect. If PSVR1 were to sell a lot more we still would have had games like God of War for example. Sony isn't going to take devs like Guerilla Games, Naughty Dog or Santa Monica and force them to make PSVR games. History has already proven this.

 

[feynoob]

And Sony had playstation move which came out at the same time as Kinect. They still didn't push it as hard as Microsoft did with Kinect. If PSVR1 were to sell a lot more we still would have had games like God of War for example. Sony isn't going to take devs like Guerilla Games, Naughty Dog or Santa Monica and force them to make PSVR games. History has already proven this.

Which brings the main point, of why Xbox is in the current position.

Lack of devs.

MS invested in kinetic, while ignoring their small devs. Then proceeded to make rare make games for the kinetic, thus weakening their devs output, which was weak.

Sony can afford to put 2 studios there, because of the number of studios they had, and 3rd party devs, which was working with them. MS didn't have those.


So the main problem was the small devs.

 

[feynoob]

669 games on this list of PSVR games and it is out of date.

Heres the list of Kinect games, 130 with a few duplicates and at least 1 unreleased from my quick count.

Saying that the Kinect (A bundled peripheral) was more successful than the PSVR is disingenuous as it's not the full picture.

Impressive list for 5m userbase.

Guess my data is wrong.

 

[Markio128]

Impressive list for 5m userbase.

Guess my data is wrong.

It doesn’t matter how many PSVR1 were sold, as long as it made money, which it did. It sold more than half of the amount of Dreamcasts sold - one of my favourite consoles of all time. People put too much emphasis on numbers, rather than experiences.

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Sorry Xbox let you down man. I'm pretty happy with them for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Compared to last generation they are leaps and bounds better. I'll take game pass, game pass, game pass over TV TV TV any day. Unless it's confirmed they'll never release any new games I have no problem waiting for the next release especially if it's not a rush job. I have tons to play already.

Two pieces of bread is better than a shit sandwich but it still leave alot to be desired.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Which brings the main point, of why Xbox is in the current position.

Lack of devs.

MS invested in kinetic, while ignoring their small devs. Then proceeded to make rare make games for the kinetic, thus weakening their devs output, which was weak.

Sony can afford to put 2 studios there, because of the number of studios they had, and 3rd party devs, which was working with them. MS didn't have those.


So the main problem was the small devs.

The issue wasn't lack of devs. It's management of said devs for the most part. I mean Sony has less than Microsoft but they do a pretty good job managing what they have.

 

[feynoob]

The issue wasn't lack of devs. It's management of said devs for the most part. I mean Sony has less than Microsoft but they do a pretty good job managing what they have.

Management wasn't an issue, as people make it out to be.

Here is their 5 studios output.

Its easier to work on sequel compared to working on a new game.

Here is MS top 4 devs output.

343I


Playground


Turn10

Games developed[edit]​

Year	Title	Platform(s)
2005	Forza Motorsport	Xbox
2007	Forza Motorsport 2	Xbox 360
2009	Forza Motorsport 3
2011	Forza Motorsport 4
2013	Forza Motorsport 5	Xbox One
2015	Forza Motorsport 6
2016	Forza Motorsport 6: Apex	Microsoft Windows, Xbox One
2017	Forza Motorsport 7
2023	Forza Motorsport	Microsoft Windows, Xbox Series X/S

The coalition

Small devs won't make enough games on time. Especially with long the game cycle is. 3-5 years between 2 games is alot. And you need alot of studios to cover those empty years.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yeah it had performance issues but the rest of the game elevated it to such a high degree that it gets a pass I guess. You can personally dissagree with the scores but you would be in the minority. The majority loved it even with the performance issues which validates the scores I suppose.

I personally think RDR2 was overrated. But the graphics, story, art style elevates it over the slow clunky gameplay. I bounced off it due to that but I completely understand why it got the scores it did and understand I am in the minority, I just couldn't see past that gameplay and enjoy it as much as others, but thats ok.

I do believe that Elden Ring is an excellent game and deserves a lot of praise; don’t get me wrong. But my point is that it is not flawless and, therefore, doesn’t deserve those 10/10 scores universally.

Performance issues and 0 accessibility options are glaring problems. Then it has relatively subjective issues, e.g., clunky combat and camera, same old mechanics as a 20-year old Demon’s Souls, fluff content, very average-looking visuals, incoherent storytelling, etc.

Again, excellent game that deserves praise for its exploration, world-building, bosses, enemy designs, vibes, etc. But doesn’t deserve 10/10 because it has issues that other games are losing points for.

 

[Heisenberg007]

The issue wasn't lack of devs. It's management of said devs for the most part. I mean Sony has less than Microsoft but they do a pretty good job managing what they have.

This. And in addition to this, there are 2 other factors in my opinion that play a major role:

1) the experience of these PS devs. They have been making games as a team, under PS, for years. Even studios that became first-party quite later, eg, Insomniac, HouseMarque, Sucker Punch, etc. They were/are fully familiar with how PS Studios work.

2) The PS Studios shared tech and support systems. I think this is the secret sauce and the reason why most publishers can’t replicate the success and quality level of PS Studios games.

 

[feynoob]

I do believe that Elden Ring is an excellent game and deserves a lot of praise; don’t get me wrong. But my point is that it is not flawless and, therefore, doesn’t deserve those 10/10 scores universally.

Performance issues and 0 accessibility options are glaring problems. Then it has relatively subjective issues, e.g., clunky combat and camera, same old mechanics as a 20-year old Demon’s Souls, fluff content, very average-looking visuals, incoherent storytelling, etc.

Again, excellent game that deserves praise for its exploration, world-building, bosses, enemy designs, vibes, etc. But doesn’t deserve 10/10 because it has issues that other games are losing points for.

If those journalists do what you are suggesting, then alot of games would lose points, because of that.

 

[reinking]

This. And in addition to this, there are 2 other factors in my opinion that play a major role:

1) the experience of these PS devs. They have been making games as a team, under PS, for years. Even studios that became first-party quite later, eg, Insomniac, HouseMarque, Sucker Punch, etc. They were/are fully familiar with how PS Studios work.

2) The PS Studios shared tech and support systems. I think this is the secret sauce and the reason why most publishers can’t replicate the success and quality level of PS Studios games.

I think Microsoft knows this too and that is why you are starting to see more Xbox studios working with others.

 

[Heisenberg007]

If those journalists do what you are suggesting, then alot of games would lose points, because of that.

And I think that’d be fair, no?

A game is absolutely fantastic, gets 10/10, but has poor performance across the board, so gets a 9/10 instead.

Otherwise, it is unfair to games that are of that 10/10 quality AND has excellent performance on all platforms.

These 2 types of games shouldn’t have the same scores.

 

[Markio128]

I do believe that Elden Ring is an excellent game and deserves a lot of praise; don’t get me wrong. But my point is that it is not flawless and, therefore, doesn’t deserve those 10/10 scores universally.

Performance issues and 0 accessibility options are glaring problems. Then it has relatively subjective issues, e.g., clunky combat and camera, same old mechanics as a 20-year old Demon’s Souls, fluff content, very average-looking visuals, incoherent storytelling, etc.

Again, excellent game that deserves praise for its exploration, world-building, bosses, enemy designs, vibes, etc. But doesn’t deserve 10/10 because it has issues that other games are losing points for.

I have to disagree with this. Some of my all time favourite games have had performance issues - TLOZ OOT being one of them - I could go on and on, tbh. It should be the feeling you are left with once you have completed the game that governs the score that you award it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Management wasn't an issue, as people make it out to be.

Here is their 5 studios output.



Small devs won't make enough games on time. Especially with long the game cycle is. 3-5 years between 2 games is alot. And you need alot of studios to cover those empty years.

Microsoft should have managed better what they had. They can always improve the efficiency of their studios and expand them with more employees. Which is something that took Sony a really long time to do. Buying devs does help but improving what you already have helps as well.

 

[Arachnid]

Eh....I don't see a Paul Tassi column lighting a fire under anyone's assess. Guy has built his career writing console warrior articles. Not exactly a big brained influencer in the industry.

It's not really about the writer (I'm not even familiar with the guy). It's about a website like Forbes which has 150 millions of users monthly pushing a narrative. People will read that, and share/parrot it just like in this ten page thread that just got made yesterday. If everyone thinks it, that'll definitely get back to Microsoft and make them want to push things along.

 

[feynoob]

And I think that’d be fair, no?

A game is absolutely fantastic, gets 10/10, but has poor performance across the board, so gets a 9/10 instead.

Otherwise, it is unfair to games that are of that 10/10 quality AND has excellent performance on all platforms.

These 2 types of games shouldn’t have the same scores.

You are asking journalist, who are basing their opinions about the game.

They don't care about those stuff. If something annoys them, they will give it lower score. If they love something about it, they will give it a higher score regardless of the performance of the game.

Only exception would be, if the game has game has breaking bugs, which hinders their ability to play the game.

Your idea is great. Since that is what those journalists need to do, to actually review the game.

 

[Negotiator101]

Clearly, the point is that you only seem to have a problem with the highest rated game not winning GOTY when it is a PlayStation game.

Did I say that?

 

[DenchDeckard]

Well Ragnarok can get some GoTY awards. Don't be shocked if it happens.

Oh it will deffo win some for sure. Lots of people with different tastes. It's all good.

But like others have said a 94 game is an amazing game, brilliant...a 96 is like breath of the wild ocarina of time levels of importance.

Elden ring will be a game spoken of for 20 years to come, that other games try to mimic. God of war will be an incredible game I imagine that many will say they adored it but I don't think it will have the same weight...I dunno. I don't really care I'm just glad there's two awesome games this year lol.

 

[feynoob]

Microsoft should have managed better what they had. They can always improve the efficiency of their studios and expand them with more employees. Which is something that took Sony a really long time to do. Buying devs does help but improving what you already have helps as well.

And that is what they should have been doing during OG xbox and x360.

MS inability to invest heavily on xbox platform resulted in that xbox one outcome.

Management was the least problems.

One of the main reasons why PS is successful, is 3rd party partnerships. They can make exclusive games, by hiring 3rd party devs.

These type of deals allowed them to get bloodborne, spiderman(plus insomniac), ratchet, etc. And now they are getting rise of Ronin, because of this deal.

MS needed this process to continue and help their 1st party output.

Phil had to go their office, and make them spend money on the platform.

 

[Topher]

Did I say that?

Yes

Are we once again going to have the highest rated game of the year lose GOTY to a PS exclusive?

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

It's all nice and dandy, but nobody will buy your console or pay 15$ a month to play a bunch of indie titles.They will buy. the one or two they like and call it a day.

They literally are having their best sales off what you saying they can’t sell off of.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If elden ring doesn't win the goty this year, then it's day light robbery.

97 meta critic isn't a joke. Especially selling that high, while being a niche genre game, and also attracting the casual users.

It's a 95 on Opencritic. And averages out to be a 95 on Meta now with the 2 consoles and PC. 96+96+94/3 = 95.

So at the moment, they're breathing on each other. 94 GoWR and 95 ER.

 

[Negotiator101]

Yes

This only came up when it was insinuated that Halo Infinite was overrated and I was of the opinion that PS exclusives are more likely to be overrated than Xbox. Anyway I'm still bitter over the 2018 GOTY

If Ragnarok does win it will certainly be deserved as its a fantastic game but I'd say Elden Ring should probably get it.