I never said otherwise. What he said was sexist. I'm not saying he's a woman hater or anything like that. I'm literally just talking about what he said in the thread. Which was sexist.
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Is it important that your partner change his/her last name when you get married?
- Thread starter LittleBoots
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I never said otherwise. What he said was sexist. I'm not saying he's a woman hater or anything like that. I'm literally just talking about what he said in the thread. Which was sexist.
Sir Abacus
Member
My wife still hasn't although she says she wants to. I don't particularly care, have told her she shouldn't have to since she's not my property.
This is the same stonewall people throw at race issues. Somebody does something that is clearly racially motivated and instead of just owning it and saying "Hey, maybe I do have some racial biases", they just make the pointless argument that since they aren't literally the KKK, then they are 100% not racist. Racism and sexism are a spectrum. You can be sexist while not being a complete piece of shit to women just like you can be racist without literally wanting to hang black people.
Why won't you let the guy clarify himself. Why would his first statement be a better representation of his true views than his subsequent statements?
Always-honest
Banned
Nope. But we don't even believe in mariage.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Marriage itself is an old fashioned tradition and doesn't really offer anything besides a false feeling of being closer.
Nobody is censoring this custom. If two people electively want to do it, great. Sharing a last name as a family has its conveniences that some may want. The problem is when one side has the expectation that the other does it BASED ON THEIR SEX.
And tax breaks.
I think I'd like to have my significant other change her last name to mine if we get married, however if she doesn't want to then that's fine. There's people who already have their careers made with their name, and it would be a pain in the ass to change that. Or maybe my significant other simply wouldn't want it. That's fine.
If I've kids though they're totally taking my last name.
If I've kids though they're totally taking my last name.
Welfare
Member
I wouldn't care either way if she took my name, I take hers, or we keep ours, but I can see how someone would want to get married and have the SO take the others name. It is basically bringing someone into your family, so the person asking another into marriage would also be asking, "Join my family".
That isn't sexist, it's just old fashioned.
That isn't sexist, it's just old fashioned.
CalamityPixel
Member
I don't really feel like you're married if you don't share a name. Whenever I get round to it with someone, I imagine they would struggle to take my second name due to what it is.
Because he's not retracting his original statement. He's trying to hold two contradictory statements at once while denying the contradiction. He isn't clarifying. He's denying a contradiction. He thinks accepting a hyphenated last name somehow clears him of this contradiction when it doesn't.
umop_3pisdn
Member
Yeah and funerals offer a false feeling of closure.
Using ritual to announce your commitment obviously has some significance, at least to some people in some situations, just like saying goodbye to the dead does.
SDCowboy
Member
lol I've moved on, man. If he wants to think I'm a sexist who thinks marriage without name change is pointless because I asked for for other points of view on the matter, he can think whatever the hell he wants. No point debating it further with him.
My parents don't share a last name. Please explain how they aren't really married.
After reading your response, I don't see the big deal. If the "name is fine," then you should keep yours, but talk to him more about it.
Sexism is treating men and women differently. If one partner is forcing the other to take their name, but wouldn't consider the inverse that is sexist.
On the scale of sexist things we should be concerned about it may be low down on the list but it's 100% sexist.
are we newspapers
Mass_Pincup
Banned
First of all please don't equate racism with this particular issue. I hate that the plight of my race is becoming the go to exemple for every instance of prejudice.
Furthermore that's not what i said, reread my post instead of reading what you want to see. All I said is that in my opinion there's not enough evidence that his point of view regarding this particular situation is rooted in sexism.
It's antiquated. It just doesn't really feel right to me. I'm really stereotyping here, I picture a white picket fence-type family where the kids names are Billy and Sally while their mom holds a casserole and says, "Ohh the Jefferson's are here!!".
"Jane and Dan are here" sounds normal.
LittleBoots
Member
Well, there's tax breaks. In certain cases, if you're not legally family, you can't see your significant other in the hospital. Is this only when they're in the ICU or something? I'm not sure of all the details.
Why?
I'm black too. I'm not throwing it around lightly. I feel perfectly comfortable with using sexism and racism as equal evils within humanity. I don't feel any need to split hairs about which is worse, but maybe you're not trying to go that way with it.
There is enough evidence to know it is rooted in sexism because he is determining who loses their name based on sex. That is inherently sexist.
User 463088
Banned
I'm gay, and my bf and I randomly talk about what ifs (even though we're no where near marriage, like at all).
I'd take my husbands name, I guess. I don't really care either way. I have no desire to see him take mine.
I'd take my husbands name, I guess. I don't really care either way. I have no desire to see him take mine.
I like the idea of sharing everything including surnames, however, I definitely wouldn't want to change mine so it's not really fair to expect the same of my partner. Basically, if they want to, I wouldn't stop them but if they don't, I wouldn't force the issue.
So you'd call off your engagement to the love of your life, your 'dream partner', if she refuses to take your surname?
SDCowboy
Member
Well in that case, I'd assume one would already know they're significant other's stance on the subject, and there wouldn't be an engagement to call off, if it were a deal breaker on the subject.
What if they change their mind 3 months before the wedding?
Not to mention medical insurance, at least in the US. Setting up beneficiaries as well. Being married carries a lot of weight legally. I thought that was a big part of why gay people wanted to get married in the first place. I didn't think it was for the blessing of the church.
I'm not sure this is strictly true. Me and my brother have our dad's surname but were brought up by our mum, who kept her name. This was never a problem.
I'm reasonably fond of my name. I like the idea of sharing a single family name within the same family. I really don't like hyphenating names as it usually doesn't look or sound all that great (exceptions do of course exist) and my surname really doesn't lend itself well to it. But the decision on which name to choose would go straight to my hypothetical future husband. He wants to change his surname to mine? Sure. He wants to keep them separate? Fine by me. He wants me to pick his? As long as he's not named Hitler I don't see a problem. I'll just have to make sure to get married before I publish any potential scientific articles, as changing the names on those after the fact is a nightmare, if not completely impossible.
Also, a gentle reminder that we're not all straight. Families outside of the husband/wife dichotomy do exist
Also, a gentle reminder that we're not all straight. Families outside of the husband/wife dichotomy do exist
John Kowalski
Banned
How it is or isn't a big deal to any one person is not of critical importance to this conversation. I mean it's evidently a big deal to at least a handful of people, both those who have ill opinion of this custom and don't want it to be continued and those who want to be a part of it. It's a big thing to me, names are very important and i would not ever wish someone to let go of their last name because of this, regardless of how strongly they feel about doing it. Because i acknowledge it as a sexist custom and all degrees of participation in it end up being virtually similarly sexist anyway. Of two individuals who do this, one being very lenient and perhaps just following their parent's desires or social customs, and the other being very adamant and strongly opining that the woman should change their name, both are nevertheless participating in a custom that is inherently, and as per my perspective, very sexist.
These sorts of subjects that deal with systems of disempowerment are hardly ever properly handled at the level of how any one individual decides to participate in it, because participating in a discriminatory system with varying degrees of levity doesn't mean the effect of that system will also vary in how discriminatory it is.
choco-fish
Member
My partner can't wait to be Mrs Choco-fish, I suggested she keep her surname as its unusual but she wants to follow western tradition, its a shame as my surname is dull and hers is unusual due to her heritage, I even suggest she double barrel her name. she said it seems like i'm more attached to her name than she is!
The obvious solution to me always seemed that daughters would have their mother's name and sons have their father's name. That way, both sides of the family have equal probability of their name being carried on.
dragonlife
Member
Nope. I won't make them change theirs and I wouldn't change mine because I love my last name. I could compromise with hyphenation, but it would be overkill, I think.
SDCowboy
Member
I honestly don't know. Depends on the person.
I would never take my future wife's last name, but I don't care if she takes mine or not. If she wants to for some reason she can, but I don't care either way. The one thing I don't want to do is ever hyphenate both last names. I'd rather take hers than hyphenate. Just too clunky.
What if they agree to it and change their mind at the last minute?
If people would call it off over something like this, they're crazy. If they wouldn't, they obviously don't care that much.
This is a person you were getting ready to spend the rest of your life with. I assume you have a rather high threshold on the kind of person you'd marry. It should at least tell you how much you care about this person. For the sake of argument, assume that it is somebody that you truly want to marry with zero doubt. You feel as they they are "the one" and you feel you couldn't possibly find somebody better for you.
LittleBoots
Member
I'm trying, dude. I want him to be happy, but I really don't want to change my last name either. He's not really going into any details about his own convictions. I don't think there's much else I can do.
Bay Maximus
Banned
Unless she made money off of her name such as an actor or singer then I would expect her to take my last name. That said, I can understand if another couple doesn't want to go through the hassle or if they don't care. It has very little actual benefit.
I would NOT want her to change her name. Where I am from women do not take their husband's name (or vice-versa) and the children carry both names, so I don't think I will have to even make this decision (unless I move somewhere where changing names is commonplace, and even then I would insist that she didn't).
My wife didn't take my name, and I couldn't care less. There is absolutely no way I would take her name, so why should I expect it of her? My first thought when she said she was going to keep her name was "Good, less paperwork." I am anti-hyphenation, though. That way lies madness.
It's not like marriage is some grand institution that somehow validates the strength of our relationship. Other than the tax incentives and legal rights marriage offers, it doesn't have any real meaning to me personally. It's not like I was less committed to the relationship before we were married.
It's not like marriage is some grand institution that somehow validates the strength of our relationship. Other than the tax incentives and legal rights marriage offers, it doesn't have any real meaning to me personally. It's not like I was less committed to the relationship before we were married.
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