The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
-2/-2 might have been too good, but I would have liked to see -3/-1
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: the Gathering |OT8| Eldritch Moon - It's only a paper (and digital) moon
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
-2/-2 might have been too good, but I would have liked to see -3/-1
Simply Sarah
Member
Yeah, either of those would have worked too. There are so many ways they could have given a more effective +1 and they went with none of them. I get that she has two other powerful abilities but what she got for the +1 is too cautious.
SigmasonicX
Member
Sheesh, a lot of negativity today.
Ishkanah did turn out to be MaRo's spoiler, by the way, for those who didn't check. Her effect is probably not as much of a spider booster as some people hoped, but she seems like a nice low-key commander--there is a demand for commanders that aren't obvious targets for kill spells. The life loss is a good way to capitalize on Spider Spawning, and you may not have delirium the first time you cast her, but you probably will by the second time.
United Resistance is interesting. Just hitting a creature for 4 for 1RR seems fine, but the variety seems good. 3RR to deal 4 damage to a creature, deal 3 damage to a player, and refresh your hand on its own seems like a fine effect, and this is better. At least in Limited, I feel this will be pretty good.
Nephalia Academy is an effect I didn't expect to see on a land. I'm guessing this will be looked at for the nonrotating formats.
As I said before, Liliana is fine but boring. Oath of Liliana seems alright. Deploy the Gatewatch felt weak at first, but I remembered that there are a fair number of Superfriends decks in Standard. The fact that this cheats mana costs and colors could make this pretty good there (as a 2 of at most).
Selfless Soul seems good.
Also, today's Access Magic episode that revealed the Liliana cards also has amusing art of Gideon looking grumpy as he leads a group of zombies.
EDIT: Huh, neat. It looks like you can use United Resistance with Goblin Dark-Dwellers and you can still pay the escalate cost to get other effects.
Ishkanah did turn out to be MaRo's spoiler, by the way, for those who didn't check. Her effect is probably not as much of a spider booster as some people hoped, but she seems like a nice low-key commander--there is a demand for commanders that aren't obvious targets for kill spells. The life loss is a good way to capitalize on Spider Spawning, and you may not have delirium the first time you cast her, but you probably will by the second time.
United Resistance is interesting. Just hitting a creature for 4 for 1RR seems fine, but the variety seems good. 3RR to deal 4 damage to a creature, deal 3 damage to a player, and refresh your hand on its own seems like a fine effect, and this is better. At least in Limited, I feel this will be pretty good.
Nephalia Academy is an effect I didn't expect to see on a land. I'm guessing this will be looked at for the nonrotating formats.
As I said before, Liliana is fine but boring. Oath of Liliana seems alright. Deploy the Gatewatch felt weak at first, but I remembered that there are a fair number of Superfriends decks in Standard. The fact that this cheats mana costs and colors could make this pretty good there (as a 2 of at most).
Selfless Soul seems good.
Also, today's Access Magic episode that revealed the Liliana cards also has amusing art of Gideon looking grumpy as he leads a group of zombies.
EDIT: Huh, neat. It looks like you can use United Resistance with Goblin Dark-Dwellers and you can still pay the escalate cost to get other effects.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Liliana's card is really stupid not because its not good, but because the abilities aren't mechanically very Liliana.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
United Resistance - 1RR.
Sorcery - Rare
Escalate 1.
Target player discards all cards in his hand, then draws that many cards.
~ deals four damage to target creature.
~ deals three damage to target opponent.
Seems pretty good to me.
This card is horrible and not pushed at all holy fuck why are there so many limp fucking cards in this set.
I'd agree on the +1; the other abilities fit her fine though.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They fit flavor wise, but making zombies is actually not very Liliana.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm always really cautious about saying a 3 mana Planeswalker isn't good but Liliana seems legitimately not good. Am I missing something?
Like I'm even playing a Delirium deck and I don't know why I would play this card; her minus is basically Grapple with the Past but legitimately worse and her plus is nigh useless in an environment where they randomly pushed the toughness on everything by 1.
Like I'm even playing a Delirium deck and I don't know why I would play this card; her minus is basically Grapple with the Past but legitimately worse and her plus is nigh useless in an environment where they randomly pushed the toughness on everything by 1.
What? Some of her associated cards have been making Zombies for quite some time. Especially in Origins they shifted focus to Zombie rather than normal reanimation, her flipwalker even creates a Zombie.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its more, I think, that people badly want something to disrupt the current Bant company meta
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's the only one that does: she doesn't have that many cards. But Defiant Necromancer is also significantly more powerful even with the hoop to jump through.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
GW tokens already did that.
My wants were
Merfolk (never was gonna happen)
LotV (never was gonna happen)
Angels (highly disappointing Angels in this set)
3 Mana Esper Enchatnments (Oath actually might find a spot)
Otherwise nice EDH cards (Exactly Tamiyo)
That I'm most excited for an uncommon land kinda says it all.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
LOTV wasn't going to happen for an obvious reason: the card fits and its not that bad in the current meta (although it might be REALLY good in BW Control), but they're not ever going to waste reprint equity on a card in standard now that they've invented a way to sell 10 dollar packs.
I don't want to say never but you will not see Modern-tier reprints in Standard any time soon. It's not happening.
I don't want to say never but you will not see Modern-tier reprints in Standard any time soon. It's not happening.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Okay okay I think its more people wanted to play colors other than green and white
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I had an idea for a Lili as a madness enabler.
+1: Target Player discards a card. If you discarded a card this way put a Loyalty counter on Liliana.
With a bigger payoff with the ultimate.
+1: Target Player discards a card. If you discarded a card this way put a Loyalty counter on Liliana.
With a bigger payoff with the ultimate.
Funny thing is that printing it probably just makes G/W even better.
Liliana is trash and embarrassing.
Pillar of Incinerate is here:
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Bummer Nephalia Academy actually doesn't blank discard triggers, there goes my exciting uncommon.
Way too many cards featuring PWs recently, they are mucking up the flavour of sets.
Way too many cards featuring PWs recently, they are mucking up the flavour of sets.
Joe Molotov
Member
A playable Red card, must be fake.
Cards don't have to be always strictly better than previous sets, and it's fine that sets have a rising and waning power level. What people want in new sets is either a good addition for current strategies in the metagame or cards that permit new strategies all together. If a set changes very little in the Standard environment and adds nothing to Modern or Eternal, it doesn't matter if the set actually released or not. So far, this set does not seem to be adding many interesting things compared to previous sets, so that's why people are a bit down on it.
I was looking for some addition to Jeskai Control, but since they are 'denying' Blue and Red of any good cards I will just have to wait another year or so. Sometimes they think a certain color can become too unbalanced due to some cards that they watch out with giving additional good cards, but this gamble doesn't always turn out like they expected. They thought Jace would be too good so they made sure it didn't get boosted through the roof, but now GW has taken the crown. In upcoming sets they will reduce the GW power level and try to promote some more hate and/or control. This is the neverending cycle of Magic development.
"God's Beard!"
Member
New Liliana is great, I'm excited. Oath of Lili goes from overcosted bad card to one of the best edicts ever printed if you get one zombie off of it.
The +1 ability lasting until your next turn rather than end of turn makes the card a lot better. The version that Ashodin found out about was kind of a turd but that one change makes a big difference. Kind of shocked she isn't a madness enabler and bummed that her second ability doesn't also return lands as Black can do that occasionally. Card seems good but not exciting.
Volcanic Pillar is probably the most important card spoiled so far.
Selfless Soul is good too. Into the Cube it goes <3
Volcanic Pillar is probably the most important card spoiled so far.
Selfless Soul is good too. Into the Cube it goes <3
Keru_Shiri
Member
One thing I'll say about new Lili is while I doubt she'll replace LotV, her abilities do seem better suited for Modern. Her +1 hits a lot more valuable targets, like Bob, Young Pyro, Noble Hierarch, and most infect creatures. Her -2 can also be good at reusing high-value creatures like Snapcaster or Fulmniator Mage.
Also, hooray for a solid burn spell (Incendiary Flow)! I doubt it'll be enough to get RDW back on the map, but I'll take what I can get.
Also, hooray for a solid burn spell (Incendiary Flow)! I doubt it'll be enough to get RDW back on the map, but I'll take what I can get.
I like charlequin's explanation of
"Shit we didn't think GW tokens would be so Damn good, fuck fuck fuck fuck"
And shit the bed on actually pumping up other archetypes
Save us Kaladesh
Supposedly cavern of souls reprint is still in the cards
Don't count on it though lol
They know reprints of value make them money in overcosted sets like modern masters
"Shit we didn't think GW tokens would be so Damn good, fuck fuck fuck fuck"
And shit the bed on actually pumping up other archetypes
Save us Kaladesh
Supposedly cavern of souls reprint is still in the cards
Don't count on it though lol
They know reprints of value make them money in overcosted sets like modern masters
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
tfw the card you are hype for is a sorcery speed lightning strike
The card was presented to Commander players, of course they're gonna complain when it's not great in Commander.
If its actual intended purpose is to be some sort of lame standard value card, they shouldn't have presented it as a Commander.
As a fan of both spiders and Commander, I'm happy they made this, but it's probably the least exciting way they could have made such a card.
Two mana R/B Tibalt. BELIEVE.
I'm at this point too. Pretty done with standard. All my trades lately have been trying to pick up modern/Legacy/EDH staples. And with our lgs now allowing 15 proxies for Legacy, I finally have enough pieces to make a deck for it. (Infect!)
charlequin
Banned
Bad spoiler reveal strategy for today. You want to kick off week two with at least one card that gets people really excited about playing in Standard. Usually they do that by saving a PW for that morning, but even if Lili turns out to play well she doesn't read well so it doesn't have that effect. Alternately they could have done it with a really great escalate card (since that's an ideal tournament-ready mechanic) but this red one just isn't pushed for no obvious reason.
If using the hand effect made it card neutral it'd be worthwhile, as is it's just a pretty expensive burn spell.
Well, like I was saying, I think people are underestimating her minus ability because Raise Dead isn't good when it costs a card and it hasn't been on a PW before.
Right, people get way crabbier about random spoilers if there's a perceived problem in the metagame because nobody can get excited about brewing random bullshit.
I guess my issue is that for years and years, Commander players had to get by with whatever random stuff happened to show up for them, and the idea of building decks around generals that weren't necessarily the most efficient was pretty normal. But now even though there's a dedicated product every year with 10 new legends, people not only identify gaps they desperately want filled, but then get super demanding about what filling those gaps looks like. I feel like it's okay if the spider legend just makes spiders and has a damage ability to go over the top when the board stalls.
Then again I'm probably a hypocrite because I know I'll be super-demanding about the blue/red artifact commander.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Neither probably.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Honestly I'm fine with the spider general as well. I get wishing that he didn't have the delirium requirement but everything else about him looks good to me. He powers up off of spider tribal in a much more interesting way than "spiders you control get +2/+2"
They could have given it "other spiders gain deathtouch" to at least power spider spawning.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its actually going to be harder in commander I think, because the likelyhood of you getting an enchantment or artifact you can sac early on is super low unless you super build for it. So you're stuck trying to make land-creature-instant-sorcery work
charlequin
Banned
For anyone keeping track of pro responses, Ari Lax is pretty bullish on Lili.
Yep. In general I'd like to see them de-escalate commanders a little bit, nobody needs endless arrays of Prosshes.
Yeah, I think the thing that seems initially weird about it is that definitely the best way to build around this is to make a mill/reanimation deck that fogs and generates spider tokens, but that honestly seems fine to me -- spiders just in general are bad, so by giving you a way to kill your opponent from behind a wall of critters and fogs it actually makes it possible for a spider deck to have a real strategy.
I think the actual thing that makes me sad about this is that it doesn't include red, which leaves out a few good spiders, but what can you do.
Yep. In general I'd like to see them de-escalate commanders a little bit, nobody needs endless arrays of Prosshes.
Yeah, I think the thing that seems initially weird about it is that definitely the best way to build around this is to make a mill/reanimation deck that fogs and generates spider tokens, but that honestly seems fine to me -- spiders just in general are bad, so by giving you a way to kill your opponent from behind a wall of critters and fogs it actually makes it possible for a spider deck to have a real strategy.
I think the actual thing that makes me sad about this is that it doesn't include red, which leaves out a few good spiders, but what can you do.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't get it. What's Tooth Collector have to do with it?
Liliana seems totally solid to me. She comes out early in a control deck, forces your opponent to overextend into your Languishes, and then lets your Languishes and Grasps kill pumped Sylvan Advocates. If they can't remove her, you get what is basically a win-the-game emblem for a control deck.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked