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[Yeef]

GW was really never the deck to beat. Remember this is when black devotion, blue devotion, and esper control were everywhere. Mono blue won the pro tour and mono black was pretty much a day 1 deck.

Craig Wescoe won the DGM pro tour with 4 Voice in the main board; but it's not at all the deck I remember. No advents at all in the 75. I do remember GW getting worse once Theros hit, but I remember it being really good in the DGM and M14 seasons, but maybe I'm just remembering the local meta and not the global meta. It all kind of blurs together.

Looking into it further; there wasn't even a Pro Tour M14. That was back when they didn't do pro tours for the core sets.

 

[blindrocket]

Fixing the Reserved List, what do you guys think?
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/fixing-the-reserved-list

More importantly, he's probably right about WotC abandoning Vintage, Legacy, and even Modern.
MaRo recently made comments about having a "new" Modern. ;_; We know that they force rotations in the Modern format by way of bannings, but to outright cleave it off and push out most of the legal sets is just dirty.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Fixing the Reserved List, what do you guys think?
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/fixing-the-reserved-list

More importantly, he's probably right about WotC abandoning Vintage, Legacy, and even Modern.

Abandoning them by creating yearly booster sets devoted to them? And adding cards to supplemental products that were stated to be meant to shake up eternal formats, like Dack Fayden? Wizards is doing more to support non-rotating formats now than they ever have past the early years of the game.

MaRo recently made comments about having a "new" Modern. ;_;

MaRo clarified that this isn't happening anytime soon.

We know that they force rotations in the Modern format by way of bannings, but to outright cleave it off and push out most of the legal sets is just dirty.

What are you talking about?

 

[blindrocket]

Abandoning them by creating yearly booster sets devoted to them? Wizards is doing more to support non-rotating formats now than they ever have past the early years of the game.

With ten dollar booster packs, sure, I guess. The article talks about this.

MaRo clarified that this isn't happening anytime soon.

That's very good. The article mentions this, too.

What are you talking about?

With banning certain archetypes, it makes room for newer ones, like those in new sets (Eldrazi) which sells new sets for older formats, a psuedo-rotation. But with a Neo-Modern format, they'd likely choose a newer point (like Theros) and say from THS to NOW is the Modern format. That cleaves off the sets before THS that were once Modern legal, which could potentially kill off a lot of decks. The article also mentions this.

Did you happen to read the article? As a fan of MTG and someone who wants to play the game without constantly investing into Standard, I like the idea of non-rotating formats. Maybe Commander is the format of the future. lulz

 

[SigmasonicX]

Read the article. It's just a bunch of fear mongering with no actual logic. Saffron really dropped the ball this time.

 

[blindrocket]

Read the article. It's just a bunch of fear mongering with no actual logic. Saffron really dropped the ball this time.

I can see that in it too. It kind of paints WotC as a bad guy, which isn't too hard to do some of the time.

 

[charlequin]

Fixing the Reserved List, what do you guys think?

I think I start rolling my eyes reflexively whenever anyone trots out a "WotC wants to kill old formats because lol $$$" argument because it's dopey and ignorant. That said, Seth's a smart guy and his analysis of the categories of reserved cards is pretty spot-on.

I think the bigger issue here is that WotC already made efforts to pare back the Reserved List, and somebody

Spoiler

Hasbro lawyers

reacted to that by forcing them to close loopholes and avoid even hinting in the direction of the Reserved List. If anyone at WotC figured out a way around that I'm pretty sure they'd just eliminate it altogether.

Abandoning them by creating yearly booster sets devoted to them? And adding cards to supplemental products that were stated to be meant to shake up eternal formats, like Dack Fayden? Wizards is doing more to support non-rotating formats now than they ever have past the early years of the game.

Yeah, this idea that WotC wants to get rid of older formats is really fundamentally ignorant of their business model and how they expect to make money off their customer base. The point of non-rotating formats (and Commander fills a lot of this role now too, in addition to pure tournament formats like Vintage) is to keep the active player base up even when people get off the purchase treadmill. These formats keep the number of people playing Magic -- especially long-time players who can mentor newbies and might dip into draft or supplemental sets sometimes -- high and gives people who hate a current Standard environment an alternative to just quitting completely. The very existence of Modern speaks to WotC's understanding of this -- they created it because Legacy wasn't able to fulfill the role very well anymore thanks to Reserved cards and they needed something in that spot.

MaRo clarified that this isn't happening anytime soon.

Also Maro knows jack shit about competitive formats so assuming his comments are in any way informative about their plans on this sort of thing is pretty ridiculous.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Ah yes, I did think the section about removing the low-cost cards from the Reserved List was interesting. The side arguments about the death of Legacy distracted from that, though.

EDIT: Sorry if I came off as hostile in my last few posts. It's just that, like charlequin, this is something that people panic about a lot and I got annoyed seeing it again.

 

[charlequin]

Ah yes, I did think the section about removing the low-cost cards from the Reserved List was interesting.

I mean, he's right they could remove these safely (both in terms of effect and, probably, in terms of reception), but he's wrong that this is a distinction from the Reserved List doing something useful for the expensive cards.

 

[blindrocket]

Ah yes, I did think the section about removing the low-cost cards from the Reserved List was interesting. The side arguments about the death of Legacy distracted from that, though.

EDIT: Sorry if I came off as hostile in my last few posts. It's just that, like charlequin, this is something that people panic about a lot and I got annoyed seeing it again.

It's okay. Now I understand why you reacted that way.
But I'm pretty sure we've all talked about WotC trying to put nails in the coffins of Vintage/Legacy before. And with their very heavy hand in how Modern goes, further manipulation wouldn't be the most surprising thing to me there either.
However, I definitely hope for the best!

 

[Infinite Stars]

The issue with Wizard's "supporting" Modern/Legacy is that as Modern Masters 2/Eternal Masters showcased they're more interested in having a draft product then a reprint product. MM1 was probably the pinnacle of draft set and reprint set merging together and Wizards seemingly has zero interest in repeating that.

I mean, MM2 was nicknamed "The Tarmogoyf Lottery" for good reason, and everything I remember about EMA was the same.

 

[Yeef]

I enjoyed the EMA draft environment (Even though i only got to draft it 3 or 4 times). It was far better than MM2; though it did fall short of MMA.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Too soon to go back and quote people's reaction to the card on preview?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

And I still say she's not good, having one and playing her.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Lili is a great card. She costs 3 mana and she's back-breaking against stuff like UW Spirits.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'd wager this is the brokenest card roborosewater made

 

[ironmang]

Craig Wescoe won the DGM pro tour with 4 Voice in the main board; but it's not at all the deck I remember. No advents at all in the 75. I do remember GW getting worse once Theros hit, but I remember it being really good in the DGM and M14 seasons, but maybe I'm just remembering the local meta and not the global meta. It all kind of blurs together.

Looking into it further; there wasn't even a Pro Tour M14. That was back when they didn't do pro tours for the core sets.

That was also block too and not standard. GW was fine but was far behind the top decks. Lifebane Zombie being in one of the decks and Master of Waves in another were pretty big problems. Before Theros it was pretty far outclassed by junk reanimator. Trust me, I also played it and dealt with some pretty mediocre results until I caved and got mono black lol.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Am I doing triple Khans right?

it's weird drafts since it's just 4 person drafts in the beta league but I beat turn 3 anafenza in the first round.

 

[OnPoint]

The issue with Wizard's "supporting" Modern/Legacy is that as Modern Masters 2/Eternal Masters showcased they're more interested in having a draft product then a reprint product. MM1 was probably the pinnacle of draft set and reprint set merging together and Wizards seemingly has zero interest in repeating that.

I mean, MM2 was nicknamed "The Tarmogoyf Lottery" for good reason, and everything I remember about EMA was the same.

They aren't going to do booster sets without making them draftable. Now, making the set's value good across the board? That's something they could improve upon.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Ended up 3-0 but the last opponent just conceded out of the gate, I feel robbed of my 3-0. High toughness + Death Frenzy is really good. Somehow my mana only refused to play along once and I only drew 3 lands in that game altogether. Also who at WotC thought Seeker of the Way was in any form or way a balanced card.
I'd honestly have preferred Prowess to be tertiary green over white.

Did it again

the fixing is just too good, though it can end up a bit awkward.

 

[red13th]

EMA isn't remotely close to MM15 in my opinion, it has a lot of new art and even the less amazing reprints are generally somewhat useful. MM15 had Ant Queen, Endrek Sahr and Inexorable Tide.

 

[OnPoint]

EMA isn't remotely close to MM15 in my opinion, it has a lot of new art and even the less amazing reprints are generally somewhat useful. MM15 had Ant Queen, Endrek Sahr and Inexorable Tide.

MM15 was a disaster in terms of value, in my view. A real step back. I think EMA was them showing they realized this.

 

[Santiako]

From The Vault: Lore Full List

Duel Decks: Bobby Nixon vs Ashaya Full List

 

[ultron87]

Teehee.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Jite tolaria west and dark depths rest is pretty unexciting.

def getting one ob vs nissa

 

[red13th]

Why comission new art for Wood Elves when you already have two great Guay pieces. :x

 

[Hero]

Think FTV Lore is pretty underwhelming. Maybe not as bad as Annihilation but close.

 

[OnPoint]

Lore is pretty disappointing aside from Depths and Jitte, which save it.

Uh... bad ass.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Think FTV Lore is pretty underwhelming. Maybe not as bad as Annihilation but close.

It has Dark Depths and Jitte in it.

It's going to be the most popular one in years.

 

[bigkrev]

It sucks that Depths and Jitte are being reprinted without new art, in a product that has questionable tournament legality (which is what these cards are used for). At this point, I think FTV should focus on Commander/Cube cards instead of Legacy stuff.

 

[Hero]

It sucks that Depths and Jitte are being reprinted without new art, in a product that has questionable tournament legality (which is what these cards are used for). At this point, I think FTV should focus on Commander/Cube cards instead of Legacy stuff.

It has Dark Depths and Jitte in it.

It's going to be the most popular one in years.

Just speaking for myself on that, like Dark Depths is cool and overdue, Jitte had a promo printing already though. Everything else though is pretty much trash.

Completely agree that FTV at this point should be Commander/Cube cards.

 

[Firemind]

Lore is pretty disappointing aside from Depths and Jitte, which save it.

Uh... bad ass.

what a waste of raymond swanland

 

[Angry Grimace]

Jitte, Dark Depths and the very rare Marit Lage token are going to make this one hard to find, actually.

I got Annhillation for 20 dollars.

 

[OnPoint]

Jitte, Dark Depths and the very rare Marit Lage token are going to make this one hard to find, actually.

I got Annhillation for 20 dollars.

Yeah I got mine for relatively cheap, though not quite that cheap, right at release.

I don't think I"ll be able to track this one down.

 

[Hero]

Jitte, Dark Depths and the very rare Marit Lage token are going to make this one hard to find, actually.

I got Annhillation for 20 dollars.

Didn't take into consideration the token. It's foil too, right?

 

[OnPoint]

Didn't take into consideration the token. It's foil too, right?

The original one was as well. I'm not sure any official non-foil Marit Lage's exist.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Didn't take into consideration the token. It's foil too, right?

The only tokens that exist are foil, but they were only handed out at Coldsnap prerelease and are like 20 bucks. Foil Dark Depths themselves are around $150.

 

[red13th]

Annihilation would have been the best FTV for my cube like ever if it wasn't foil. Armageddon, Smokestack, Upheaval, Burning and Rolling EQ would be snap includes and there are no non-foil modern-frame versions of those cards

 

[ElyrionX]

New art for Momir Vig but recycled art for your most iconic equipment of all time? Good show, WotC.

 

[Hero]

The original one was as well. I'm not sure any official non-foil Marit Lage's exist.

The only tokens that exist are foil, but they were only handed out at Coldsnap prerelease and are like 20 bucks. Foil Dark Depths themselves are around $150.

Yeah generally though FTV foils follow more towards the regular, non-foil price end of the spectrum. Still going to add it to the collection. Eagerly awaiting FTV Exiled 2 though featuring Wild Nacatl and Bloodbraid Elf.

 

[Crocodile]

FTV Lore is ass (I don't care about Dark Depths and I already have a foil Jitte for my Cube)

Duel Deck is also pretty weak though the alt-art cards are good and good choices and the new art for the PWs is pretty good too.

Annihilation would have been the best FTV for my cube like ever if it wasn't foil. Armageddon, Smokestack, Upheaval, Burning and Rolling EQ would be snap includes and there are no non-foil modern-frame versions of those cards

I mean I no longer go out of my way to get foils for my Cube but Modern Frame + Foil >>>>> Old Frame. Double sleeve-ing takes care of most curling issues I've found though I don't know where you live - if its a particularly humid place that might be an unavoidable issue.

 

[OnPoint]

Yeah generally though FTV foils follow more towards the regular, non-foil price end of the spectrum. Still going to add it to the collection. Eagerly awaiting FTV Exiled 2 though featuring Wild Nacatl and Bloodbraid Elf.

But Nacatl is legal now...

 

[Hero]

But Nacatl is legal now...

Yeah but the whole idea of Exiled was to showcase cards which were so powerful that they had to be banned at some point. Kird Ape was in the original Exiled set.

 

[OnPoint]

Yeah but the whole idea of Exiled was to showcase cards which were so powerful that they had to be banned at some point. Kird Ape was in the original Exiled set.

Ah. I wasn't following much when that came out. Seems like a wasted spot to me, but that wouldn't be outside of the norm for FTV

 

[Hero]

Ah. I wasn't following much when that came out. Seems like a wasted spot to me, but that wouldn't be outside of the norm for FTV

Yeah they include some less valuable/desirable cards to help make it not a complete scalper's paradise (not sure how successful that is) which is why we get crap like Desert or Impulse in the sets.

 

[red13th]

I mean I no longer go out of my way to get foils for my Cube but Modern Frame + Foil >>>>> Old Frame. Double sleeve-ing takes care of most curling issues I've found though I don't know where you live - if its a particularly humid place that might be an unavoidable issue.

Yeah foils curl a lot in here (Brazil) and I don't like how they look either. Plus I want all my cards to look the same, so if I added a few foils I'd have to foil them all... don't even want to think about how much it would cost.
I'm starting to swap my 8th Ed-frame cards for Khans-frame versions too when available, I didn't like the look at first but it has grown on me.

 

[SigmasonicX]

On Ulrich
Gitrog Monster's art intentionally called back to Chub Toad

sternus-117 asked: In your recent Odds and Ends, regarding Ulrich, you wrote "What we didn't pick up on was that for some players, the reason they wanted it was to use it to specifically play a tribal Werewolf deck." But the sentence before you stated that R&D knew that the request for a Legendary Werewolf mostly came from Commander players. My question is: couldn't you pick up the connection between the two? It seems quite obvious.

We optimized it to play in as many different Red/Green decks as possible to maximize how many Commander players could use it.

Hindsight is 20/20. Yes, it seems obvious now.

==

darrinkatz asked: How much influence did Chub Toad have over the design of The Gitrog Monster?

The only influence was a nod in the art.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

lol, Ulrich is pretty much only good for RG big beats. Should be dece with Surrack, Maelstrom Wanderer and Xenagod and heir ilk but I don't expect to see him very often

 

[OnPoint]

Yeah they include some less valuable/desirable cards to help make it not a complete scalper's paradise (not sure how successful that is) which is why we get crap like Desert or Impulse in the sets.

I get the logic, but if they made it a readily available product instead of an uber-limited release type situation, it might be less of an issue.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I get the logic, but if they made it a readily available product instead of an uber-limited release type situation, it might be less of an issue.

I believe part of the goal of From the Vault products is to provide a reward for Local Game Stores, by selling them a product with a relatively low suggested retail price which they can then sell to customers for a much higher price without raising too many eyebrows. In that sense, the limited release is a feature.