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[Angry Grimace]

The problem with Draw-Go decks is that they're inherently the same deck every season. The reason people constantly whine that they don't let you play Draw-Go is because the idea that there's only 3 decks that exist is pervasive (generic creature midrange, red aggro and draw-go control).

I think they've been actively trying to give you more interesting options, its just that they've fucked up the design of Standard a couple of times by mis-evaluating of specific cards in testing, e.g. Collected Company, Reflector Mage, Fetches/Battles simultaneously, etc.

I do like the salty comment on Maro's blog about "time to play Modern" as though Draw-Go control has been historically a real deck in Modern.

 

[Yeef]

I'm not a fan of cards like Rabid Bite and Clear Shot. In limited they're basically just burn spells, since you'll pretty much always have creatures. I don't have a problem with them in constructed.

 

[ElyrionX]

If there was a top-tier true draw-go control deck in Modern like the UW Sphinx deck we got two years ago, I would definitely play it lol. But as it is, control in Modern is dead.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Because it is very immediate, has universal answers, allows you to react and gives you the illusion that you are playing a much more complex game.
Wizards should focus on giving Red the well-deserved spotlight first.

Exactly it makes you feel empowered, the highest form of magic arguments are especially hilarious.

You know what, I can't find it. There was a thread on Reddit about it too but it got deleted and after digging around, it was probably justified.

I did find the day 1 match where he was on camera but the turn it looked like he played 2 lands was actually him rearranging a hadron archive with his land.
I'm fairly certain he's not going to make that kind of mistake again in the foreseeable future. If you see him on camera again look out for a small silver medallion/token he'll bring it out every time he gets over a certain amount of lands and turn it over every turn after he has played his land for the turn.

 

[ironmang]

Been playing games on cockatrice all day and haven't ran into 1 bant company deck. Testing on these programs really is worthless lol.

 

[Santiako]

GU Crush of Tentacles lock in for top 8, that's awesome.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That guy's been playing the same deck since OGW and I think it has a decent Bant Company matchup, which probably explains a lot.

Been playing games on cockatrice all day and haven't ran into 1 bant company deck. Testing on these programs really is worthless lol.

That's true in anything other than serious competitive settings though. People do shit like forcing storm in draft formats, etc. in anything where they don't stand to lose anything by playing goofy shit.

 

[Crocodile]

New Liliana $46. -_-

I've looked at the prices for the set recently and most of the cards have been or are tanking. That's the problem when the vast majority of rares in a set either suck wholesale or don't have a friendly format for them - one/two cards hit $40+ and the rest bottom out at bulk. If you're looking for those few expensive cards, it's infuriating and it keeps happening with Standard sets.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I wish you guys were better at saying what you're commenting on.

We're watching the stream for SCG Baltimore Open.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Been playing games on cockatrice all day and haven't ran into 1 bant company deck. Testing on these programs really is worthless lol.

I haven't run into Bant Company either, and I've been playing tons of Vintage Cube and EDH Cube.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't even know what you're all talking about. This is the most diverse meta since Eldritch Moon released! You can play W, WG, WU, WB or WGU!

 

[Santiako]

There's a modern pptq being streamed here: https://www.twitch.tv/geekfortress

2 rounds and 4 different decks so far.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I don't even know what you're all talking about. This is the most diverse meta since Eldritch Moon released! You can play W, WG, WU, WB or WGU!

So diverse that I'm already listing my DTK and ORI cards for sale.

 

[Matriox]

GU Crush of Tentacles lock in for top 8, that's awesome.

In first before going into the last round, it's pretty cool. I had picked up a set of crush for $6 when I saw it day one, now I just hope they ship it considering the cheapest set on eBay is $80

 

[Angry Grimace]

SCG pre-PT tours always feature some goofy deck like UR Goggles or UG Crush that never sees the light of day after the PT

 

["God's Beard!"]

man I was gonna laugh if that guy drew because he didn't spell queller the thraben inspector.

 

[blindrocket]

As for Draw-Go and standard, my little story of getting back into Magic after being away for years was basically going to FNM for the very first time, and my very first game being against a seasoned player who was playing a control deck where he played everything on my turn. It was very confusing for me at that time to be honest.

I'm not saying it doesn't have a place in Magic, because it does, but Standard is definitely the newbie format for them.

 

[blindrocket]

I love seeing Nahiri show up in Modern and Legacy. I came across this deck today, what do you guys think? It top 8'd something, I believe.
It's a CoCo deck, yes. But the main Combo is Knight of the Reliquary and Retreat to Coralhelm. It lends itself to turn three wins, pumping a 20/20 Knight.
As for Nahiri, she feeds the Knight until she wins with Emrakul.

Mainboard (60)

1 Breeding Pool
2 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Island
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
22 land

4 Birds of Paradise
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Spellskite
4 Voice of Resurgence
24 creature

4 Collected Company
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Path to Exile
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
14 other spells

Sideboard (15)

1 Ghost Quarter
2 Izzet Staticaster
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Negate
1 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
2 Vendilion Clique
15 cards

 

[OnPoint]

In first before going into the last round, it's pretty cool. I had picked up a set of crush for $6 when I saw it day one, now I just hope they ship it considering the cheapest set on eBay is $80

Lol what. I should sell my Crushes now.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

There's a modern pptq being streamed here: https://www.twitch.tv/geekfortress

2 rounds and 4 different decks so far.

I love that stream, TJ is a freat host and emits a lot of positivity. They stream liie 4 times a week includng unsanctioned proxy legacy.

 

[ironmang]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";212042343]So diverse that I'm already listing my DTK and ORI cards for sale.[/QUOTE]

This really is about as bad as it gets for standard. And without standard PPTQs there really no reason to play the format.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I love seeing Nahiri show up in Modern and Legacy. I came across this deck today, what do you guys think? It top 8'd something, I believe.
It's a CoCo deck, yes. But the main Combo is Knight of the Reliquary and Retreat to Coralhelm. It lends itself to turn three wins, pumping a 20/20 Knight.
As for Nahiri, she feeds the Knight until she wins with Emrakul.

Mainboard (60)

1 Breeding Pool
2 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Island
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
22 land

4 Birds of Paradise
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Spellskite
4 Voice of Resurgence
24 creature

4 Collected Company
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Path to Exile
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
14 other spells

Sideboard (15)

1 Ghost Quarter
2 Izzet Staticaster
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Negate
1 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
2 Vendilion Clique
15 cards

Knightfall Retreat works better as a CoCo deck that can sometimes just pull of a win with the retreät combo imo. 1 Retreat to Coralhelm in the main and otherwise a goodstuff deck with more room for Paths and Dromoka's Commands is preferable.

 

[Angry Grimace]

As for Draw-Go and standard, my little story of getting back into Magic after being away for years was basically going to FNM for the very first time, and my very first game being against a seasoned player who was playing a control deck where he played everything on my turn. It was very confusing for me at that time to be honest.

I'm not saying it doesn't have a place in Magic, because it does, but Standard is definitely the newbie format for them.

It isn't really as interesting as players invested in it believe it is. A deck like UW Spirits has very controlling elements without actually doing nothing or countering everything.

 

[SigmasonicX]

If Cory had Chris cast Reflector Mage when he had control of him with Emrakul, Emrakul would have returned to his hand, then Chris would have his next turn, and Cory could cast Emrakul on his next turn, right?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

If Cory had Chris cast Reflector Mage when he had control of him with Emrakul, Emrakul would have returned to his hand, then Chris would have his next turn, and Cory could cast Emrakul on his next turn, right?

yes, I've done that in the beta awhile ago. He'd still be dead though just as I lost that game.

 

[Santiako]

In the geekfortress Modern stream, a guy just combo'd to make an infinitely big Archangel of Thune with infinite life and then attacked into a Swans of Bryn Argoll x)

 

[SigmasonicX]

Top 4 is 3 Bant Company and one G/W Tokens. Yeah, not watching the stream anymore.

 

[duxstar]

I find it hilarious that the entire top 4, and people finally realize that g/w is the good guy, not the bad guy

 

["God's Beard!"]

Finally, the format for Duxstar to shine.

 

[bigkrev]

I've looked at the prices for the set recently and most of the cards have been or are tanking. That's the problem when the vast majority of rares in a set either suck wholesale or don't have a friendly format for them - one/two cards hit $40+ and the rest bottom out at bulk. If you're looking for those few expensive cards, it's infuriating and it keeps happening with Standard sets.

I'm also wondering how mappable boxes will effect mythic prices. You have to figure that a higher percent of the mythics in this set will end up in the hands of people who sell and trade cards instead of in casual players hands!

 

[Firemind]

I wish you guys were better at saying what you're commenting on.

We're watching the stream for SCG Baltimore Open.

Yeah for a second I thought a PT was going on. Way to kill the hype guys.

 

[ironmang]

Sac angel, flip Avacyn and advance to SCG finals from it. What a play.

 

[duxstar]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";212055888]Finally, the format for Duxstar to shine.[/QUOTE]

No one plays standard around here, and my format is more if there was some g/w aggro deck with like Noose Constrictor, and Kytheon's lol

 

[charlequin]

Hope you love your all-midrange standard formats.[/URL]

A draw-go-dominated environment is actually even worse than all-midrange, lol.

New Liliana $46. -_-

Too soon to go back and quote people's reaction to the card on preview?

It's only an issue when green has stronger removal than red in Limited, like in Eldritch Moon, but that's something that gets adjusted every set.

I think the issue is that when green is already overpowered (with the best card advantage, the most inevitable creatures, the best defensive techniques, etc.) also giving it good creature destruction just makes it oppressive.

The problem with Draw-Go decks is that they're inherently the same deck every season. The reason people constantly whine that they don't let you play Draw-Go is because the idea that there's only 3 decks that exist is pervasive (generic creature midrange, red aggro and draw-go control).

I think they've been actively trying to give you more interesting options, its just that they've fucked up the design of Standard a couple of times by mis-evaluating of specific cards in testing, e.g. Collected Company, Reflector Mage, Fetches/Battles simultaneously, etc.

Yeah, I agree with this analysis completely. The general direction is good and they've tried to create pieces to support more interesting decks (like creature-based control decks) and the biggest obstacle has been individual format-warping mistakes.

This really is about as bad as it gets for standard.

No, four-color madness was still worse. And if only because Coco rotates on the next set, it's not as bad as ban-required issues like Caw-Blade either.

I'll note that the last few seasons have already demonstrated the wisdom of the new standard rotation format. Something that turns out to be broken and obnoxious like Coco already just can't stick around as long as it used to -- we're really only looking at two Standard rotations screwed up by this card specifically before it's already gone forever.

 

[Hero]

Hope everybody loves GW for the next few months.

 

[bigkrev]

No, four-color madness was still worse. And if only because Coco rotates on the next set, it's not as bad as ban-required issues like Caw-Blade either.

I'll note that the last few seasons have already demonstrated the wisdom of the new standard rotation format. Something that turns out to be broken and obnoxious like Coco already just can't stick around as long as it used to -- we're really only looking at two Standard rotations screwed up by this card specifically before it's already gone forever.

When was the last time standard was "good"? Im thinking post release of Khans of Tarkir where we were free from Pack Rat devotion and not yet fully into 4 color hell.

 

[OnPoint]

Too soon to go back and quote people's reaction to the card on preview?.

Maybe when something that isn't green-white or green-white-blue wins?

 

[duxstar]

I still dont know why Lilanna would be 50 bux and still think shes a bsd card. Nissa Worldwaker was a $50 planeswalker once too and wasnt worth the price.

 

[OnPoint]

I recall Voice of Resurgence having a high price tag and it never finding a home in standard, despite being universally regarded as a strong card.

It's so hard to predict how mythics will be priced, whether they're good or see play or success or anything.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Gonna try some U/G shenanigans with Elder Deep Fiend emerging out of Hangarback Walker. (Picked up x2 Crush of Tentacles for cheap as well.)

 

[blindrocket]

I recall Voice of Resurgence having a high price tag and it never finding a home in standard, despite being universally regarded as a strong card.

It's so hard to predict how mythics will be priced, whether they're good or see play or success or anything.

Very true on how it's hard to predict things. VoR was nerfed back in its standard days. I know because I played GW and Selesnya didn't get the support it needed. ;_;

 

[OnPoint]

Very true on how it's hard to predict things. VoR was nerfed back in its standard days. I know because I played GW and Selesnya didn't get the support it needed. ;_;

I tried so hard to force Naya. Had some fun token decks. Never did quite get there.

 

[Yeef]

I recall Voice of Resurgence having a high price tag and it never finding a home in standard, despite being universally regarded as a strong card.

It's so hard to predict how mythics will be priced, whether they're good or see play or success or anything.

From what I remember, Voice saw plenty of Standard play during DGM, M14 and THS seasons. GW goodstuff was the deck to beat for awhile, primarily due to Voice, Advent of the Wurm, Fleecemane Lion and Boon Satyr all being good against the control decks of the time. I think it was the middle of the Theros season when Blue devotion and Black Devotion actually started flexing their stuff.

 

[blindrocket]

I tried so hard to force Naya. Had some fun token decks. Never did quite get there.

Lifebane Zombie hated me. :cries:

 

[blindrocket]

From what I remember, Voice saw plenty of Standard play during DGM, M14 and THS seasons. GW goodstuff was the deck to beat for awhile, primarily due to Voice, Advent of the Wurm, Fleecemane Lion and Boon Satyr all being good against the control decks of the time. I think it was the middle of the Theros season when Blue devotion and Black Devotion actually started flexing their stuff.

Man I played all that stuff. Black devotion fucked everyone up. They specifically printed a black zombie just to hate on GW. And how can we forget Sphinx Rev, and Supreme Verdict. And then the mono U devotion crap with Master of Waves shenanigans.
GW was pretty late to get the Selesnya God that was underwhelming anyway, and then pretty late to get their Scry land if I recall.

 

[ironmang]

From what I remember, Voice saw plenty of Standard play during DGM, M14 and THS seasons. GW goodstuff was the deck to beat for awhile, primarily due to Voice, Advent of the Wurm, Fleecemane Lion and Boon Satyr all being good against the control decks of the time. I think it was the middle of the Theros season when Blue devotion and Black Devotion actually started flexing their stuff.

GW was really never the deck to beat. Remember this is when black devotion, blue devotion, and esper control were everywhere. Mono blue won the pro tour and mono black was pretty much a day 1 deck.

 

[Crocodile]

I recall Voice of Resurgence having a high price tag and it never finding a home in standard, despite being universally regarded as a strong card.

It's so hard to predict how mythics will be priced, whether they're good or see play or success or anything.

A) Pretty much every other rare/mythic in Dragon's Maze was trash or narrow so all the value had to go somewhere.

B) I feel like I remember that card hitting Modern fast and hard. Am I off?

 

[blindrocket]

GW was really never the deck to beat. Remember this is when black devotion, blue devotion, and esper control were everywhere. Mono blue won the pro tour and mono black was pretty much a day 1 deck.

Exactly this. It was hard playing GW in those days. I had a strong deck, but others just beat it up and took its lunch money way too easily.

You could set up a presence, but Supreme Verdict wiped you out. And with Sphinx Rev, they could fill their hand with new cards on the end of your turn then untap and be ready to play whatever they drew.

Then came the Mono Black Devotion monstrosity. Then came Mono Blue and you could not outrace Master of Waves.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Elder Deep Fiend ramp/control is dirty. Believe.

 

[OnPoint]

A) Pretty much every other rare/mythic in Dragon's Maze was trash or narrow so all the value had to go somewhere.

B) I feel like I remember that card hitting Modern fast and hard. Am I off?

A) Oh, absolutely. I mean, it had its reason, in hindsight, to have a higher price (though never the $60 it commanded for an absurdly long time). But I remember there never being a real clear reason other than price memory (I even remember the SCG finance guy talking about price memory in direct reference to Voice and how it sometimes works several times when I used to subscribe to gold).

B) It slotted into a few things (Pod IIRC? Hatebears maybe?) but it was never like, ubiquitous. Someone can correct me if wrong.