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[Varteras]

At first I thought your avatar was a huge anime tiddy being pushed down with two hands. Was about to change mine.

 

[Griffon]

Only reason I have GP is so I never have to buy any of their shit

But you are paying for their shit. Every month a bit at a time. more than 150$ per year. And when you'll stop, you'll have nothing to show for all that money spent.

You're getting played.

 

[adamsapple]

Revenue doesn't matter, profit matters.

They both matter, revenue shows the service is generating billions in cash annually. Is that alone enough to fund all development of 1P content? Probably not, but those 1P games aren't given exclusively on the service either.

Without day one MS games, the service would need to be much cheaper for me to stay interested.

Yeah, if they want an ad-supported, non day 1, service for $5.99 or something, have at it hoss.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

They both matter, revenue shows the service is generating billions in cash annually. Is that alone enough to fund all development of 1P content? Probably not, but those 1P games aren't given exclusively on the service either.



Yeah, if they want an ad-supported, non day 1, service for $5.99 or something, have at it hoss.

The revenue doesn't matter if you can't sustain the operating costs.

That's where Microsoft is today. That is why they're buying ABK. I think it is clear as day that Microsoft is no longer interested in GamePass as it exists today. The free ride experiment is already coming to a close despite missing targets on growth.

 

[skit_data]

Well, this strategy was always gonna be a one way-ticket in that sense, walking back on day one releases is pretty much a no go if they want to avoid a PR Nightmare (people who have already stacked years of Gamepass would probably be pretty furious).

 

[Vognerful]

So one employee says "let's do it!", another employee says "no, we won't"... And thread title is "Company wanted to do it!". Ok.

Won't be neoGAF if we didn't do that

 

[Pop]

If Xbox cared at all about profit they would have never put 1st party exclusives day 1 on GP. But lucky for them they have no bangers so hasn't really hurt them much.

People aren't rushing out to spend $70 on Xbox exclusives. And they certainly won't anymore after all this time. Majority of players interested are using GP to play their exclusives.

 

[adamsapple]

The revenue doesn't matter if you can't sustain the operating costs.

What makes you think they can't sustain game pass's operating costs? They've said so on multiple occasions that they can.

I think it is clear as day that Microsoft is no longer interested in GamePass as it exists today. The free ride experiment is already coming to a close despite missing targets on growth.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. There have been no indications that the game pass model is changing any time soon. Not sure what is leading you to believe that.

 

[FrankWza]

Oh fuck, my bad.... I must repent and play my wife's S tonight instead of my X. Damn

Hey, it's gotta be tough going down to the standard after you've played the pro.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

What makes you think they can't sustain game pass's operating costs? They've said so on multiple occasions that they can.



I don't even know what you're trying to say here. There have been no indications that the game pass model is changing any time soon. Not sure what is leading you to believe that.

Their actions speak louder than words.

They are increasing prices on everything despite low sales because their operating income is clearly not great.

I think maybe you just don't want to take a real look at their actions.

 

[adamsapple]

Their actions speak louder than words.

They are increasing prices on everything despite low sales because their operating income is clearly not great.

I think maybe you just don't want to take a real look at their actions.

Come on, lol. "Their actions" are only matching the price of their nearest competition after holding back for a while and letting us know almost a year ago that they will eventually increase. The console, games and even the highest tier of their sub is now matching PS5's console, game and Premium monthly price. Surely you're not suggesting that Sony's operating income isn't that great either.

But I guess it's easier to see negatives in 'their actions'.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Come on, lol. "Their actions" are only matching the price of their nearest competition after holding back for a while and letting us know almost a year ago that they will eventually increase. The console, games and even the highest tier of their sub is now matching PS5's console, game and Premium monthly price. Surely you're not suggesting that Sony's operating income isn't that great either.

But I guess it's easier to see negatives in 'their actions'.

The difference is their competition has record sales happening. Xbox is in decline in the 3rd year into this cycle...

 

[Del_X]

Zero reason to pay for the service unless the library somehow expanded dramatically

 

[Cornbread78]

But you are paying for their shit. Every month a bit at a time. more than 150$ per year. And when you'll stop, you'll have nothing to show for all that money spent.

You're getting played.

MS Rewards covers most of the cost and if I really like something, I'll buy it at 50-75% off on sale

 

[Nydius]

Putting day one first part games is the only unsustainable part of Game Pass, IMO. Other than that, it’s a sustainable model; If it wasn’t Sony wouldn’t have made their own version of it without day one games.

But choosing to put all their first party games up there immediately cuts off all profitability at the knees. Starfield should be a mega seller that turns a massive profit… Instead, it‘ll drive subs that generate a fraction of the revenue as a single retail sale. And then it’ll happen again with Forza Motorsport.

The day/date inclusion is what will ultimately be GP’s undoing. We’re already seeing them looking for ways to monetize day one GP users with the inclusion of separate deluxe edition/early access add-ons.

 

[Kumomeme]

At first I thought your avatar was a huge anime tiddy being pushed down with two hands. Was about to change mine.

LOL haha

 

[sendit]

But you are paying for their shit. Every month a bit at a time. more than 150$ per year. And when you'll stop, you'll have nothing to show for all that money spent.

You're getting played.

Gaming is entertainment, not a financial return of investment.

 

[Sorcerer]

Word on the street is Microsoft will have a new plan. You can pay less and get 30fps on day one and get the patch 1 year later. Or you can pay more and Play 60fps day one.
120fps plan in the future.

 

[ZehDon]

Putting day one first part games is the only unsustainable part of Game Pass, IMO. Other than that, it’s a sustainable model; If it wasn’t Sony wouldn’t have made their own version of it without day one games.

But choosing to put all their first party games up there immediately cuts off all profitability at the knees. Starfield should be a mega seller that turns a massive profit… Instead, it‘ll drive subs that generate a fraction of the revenue as a single retail sale. And then it’ll happen again with Forza Motorsport.

The day/date inclusion is what will ultimately be GP’s undoing. We’re already seeing them looking for ways to monetize day one GP users with the inclusion of separate deluxe edition/early access add-ons.

The concept is called economies of scale; what's untenable at smaller numbers becomes workable with larger numbers. The idea is that games like Starfield convince people to buy in to Game Pass, which is a reoccurring model vs an upfront model, allowing it to generate more revenue over the longer term than boxed sales ever could. The lower cost also allows people who were on the fence about the game to buy in at a much lower price point, who then might stick around once they see everything else waiting on Game Pass. So, instead of one person spending USD$70, they want eleven people spending USD$10.00. Sony has basically reigned supreme for twenty years, and Xbox nearly folded entirely during that time, so, Microsoft is trying to play a different game. They can't capture the retail market against Sony, so, they'll build Netflix and capture that market instead. Will it all work out? Who knows - we've never been here before. Spencer has declared Game Pass profitable, though, so it's not going anywhere any time soon.

 

[Sorcerer]

But you are paying for their shit. Every month a bit at a time. more than 150$ per year. And when you'll stop, you'll have nothing to show for all that money spent.

You're getting played.

edit

 

[adamsapple]

Putting day one first part games is the only unsustainable part of Game Pass, IMO. Other than that, it’s a sustainable model; If it wasn’t Sony wouldn’t have made their own version of it without day one games.

But choosing to put all their first party games up there immediately cuts off all profitability at the knees. Starfield should be a mega seller that turns a massive profit… Instead, it‘ll drive subs that generate a fraction of the revenue as a single retail sale. And then it’ll happen again with Forza Motorsport.

The day/date inclusion is what will ultimately be GP’s undoing. We’re already seeing them looking for ways to monetize day one GP users with the inclusion of separate deluxe edition/early access add-ons.

All of that happens in many major AAA releases that aren't on any sub service, including many offering earlier access for higher tier versions.

 

[Stooky]

 

[Heisenberg007]

They'll introduce a cheaper plan that's not day 1 content then substantially raise the price on the day 1 when they get the content rolling

100% this is coming very soon. The increase in Game Pass price is also part of that equation.

That new low-tiered GP plan may even have ads.

 

[Heisenberg007]

So has their revenue, we know it made approx $3bn in revenue in 2021, so the idea that it's just burning cash is entirely inaccurate.



Yes, we've seen that statement, an undisclosed % decrease after 12 months of a game being on GP. Without knowing specifics we can't say if its 5% of 50%. But most games, unless you're R*, don't generally sell a lot after 12 months anyway.

Correction: not after 12 months. It was in the first 12 months period. The effect subsides after 12 months.

That, I believe, is also the reason why PlayStation Studio titles join PS+ only after 12 months. And also the reason why Sony gets 12-month timed exclusives. There is likely strong evidence that most game sales happen in the first 12 months.

 

[Three]

They avoid day 1 now anyway by trying to call day 5 day 1 so as to not upset the xbox fans who expect day 1.

 

[solidus12]

 

[Fess]

Early access a week earlier when you preorder kinda have a similar effect, they just need to move day 1 patch a week earlier.

 

[Nydius]

100% this is coming very soon. The increase in Game Pass price is also part of that equation.

That new low-tiered GP plan may even have ads.

Ya know, I still think their best bet would be to:

A) Get rid of Xbox Live Gold. It just doesn't fit their plans anymore. Keep the Xbox Live moniker for their online infrastructure.

B) Create two tiers of Game Pass:
- Game Pass Core (Console) or (PC): Single system entitlement, Xbox Live online access, access to the entire Game Pass library but delayed access to new first party titles -- say 3-6 months after release. Possibly ad supported down the line (preferably not, but possible).

- Game Pass Ultimate (Console & PC): Dual system entitlement, Xbox Live online access, access to the entire Game Pass library plus day one access plus EA Play. Market it as the best value option.

The only downside is if they really want to make this route profitable, they'd probably need to bump Ultimate up to something like $19.99 (or higher) per month. Keep Core at the $10.99 price point. They'd probably also burn some goodwill with folks who use the Gold to Game Pass stacking loophole, but I can't imagine Microsoft is going to let that loophole exist much longer anyway if we're already looking at price hikes. People stacking 2-3 years of Game Pass Ultimate by buying 2-3 years of Gold and converting it all by buying one month of Ultimate are absolutely raking Microsoft's Game Pass profitability over the coals.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

They'll introduce a cheaper plan that's not day 1 content then substantially raise the price on the day 1 when they get the content rolling

Multi tier plans and the price continuously rising is all common sense expectations everyone should have always had for the service.

 

[Zathalus]

So one employee says "let's do it!", another employee says "no, we won't"... And thread title is "Company wanted to do it!". Ok.

Not just that, it's a email from almost 4 years ago. But I think every single email that hints at anything that can be used to drum up some outrage is going to get posted.

 

[vkbest]

So one employee says "let's do it!", another employee says "no, we won't"... And thread title is "Company wanted to do it!". Ok.

Matt Booty is not one random employee, it just the boss of Xbox games studios

 

[Heisenberg007]

They'll losing in millions with each game release. Yes. Microsoft can absorb the cost but XBOX like any other division, is tasked with making a profit.

They've essentially left their closest competitor, retail and digital sales, uncontested. And converted their instal into believing that "wait for it to come to gamepass" is the viable option. Their is a reason Sony is showing you that they've never had it this good in their quarterly reports while at the same time Microsoft obfuscates the stae of XBOX and instead talks about revenue, sandwiches, and the number of reloads in their quarterly reports.

True. But the problem is that they publicly committed to day-one releases, and people purchased years of Game Pass on that promise. Now it's nearly impossible for them to back out of it.

That's why they have introduced the "early access for retail sales" workaround.

The truth is that Starfield is not a day one Game Pass title because people who "buy" Starfield will be playing 5 days early.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

shh, let 'em figure it out on their own

We're way past that.

 

[THE DUCK]

I could live with it too, but only if it was cheaper. That said it's a headline feature and draws tons of subs, a mistake to drop.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Looks like a standard business employee suggested one thing and other employee shot it down with reasons. See this shit every day.

Just a classic example of how strategy can change if leadership changes.mfingers crossed they never entertain this idea or its game over for gp.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

If Phil gets ousted I suspect their whole gamepass strategy will change.

Well, I like to think that Nadella is smart enough to probably pick Sarah Bond as Phil's successor instead of that buffoon named Matt Booty.

 

[crackajack]

That would've been a really dumb move.

Doing it in the first place was a drastic desperate sorta dumb move. Sure, I also thought it would help them enourmosly, but it didn't (or maybe the numbers would actually be worse without, still thanks to XBone), and gamers still wait for their first party line up to actually matter. But once that catches up with Sony, they should have the studios already, prior ABK, then day one would not be necessary anymore. So the strategy was forced and economic suicide/at least risky. They kinda ruined the pricing for everyone, first themselves, Sony followed too (while raising prices for the beta-testers) and Nintendo at least also does a little bit with their classics.
Hindsight, of course, but with commitment to be better or at least equal they could have turned it slowly around. Console gaming is slowly evolving towards mobile anyway, but they tried to reform traditional console gamers to mobile gamers which is probably not yet a homogenous entity, and might not be anytime soon. As aren't devs. There are certainly devs who would quit the moment their company decides to do mobile instead of traditional games. Some are passionate about what they do despite probably losing some money they could get in more lucrative areas.

 

[Wingnut]

So many years ago. Of course such things were discussed. I don’t see the point here?

 

[Negotiator101]

Only reason I have GP is so I never have to buy any of their shit

Paying to play shit? a fool and their money is easily parted, as they say

 

[Gudji]

 

[StueyDuck]

it would definitely blow up the narrative of a lot of list warriors on twitter.
I can see the pros and cons of this however, i am definitely going to Sub for a month for Starfield then unsub after. that is a potential $60 turned to $10 or whatever the price is now.

but i was never going to pay full price to play redfall so they make up the money elsewhere, and i ended up trying it anyway.

 

[thismeinteil]

Unfortunately for MS, Sony didn't fall for that trap.

 

[SSfox]

Yep you are right. adamsapple read it wrong.

I understand now why he got that signature.

 

[Bond007]

But note how much public pressure they've given Sony to do the same...

They're such a disingenuous company.

They know it is a broken model and they know it isn't sustainable. They're just willing to absorb those losses today and try to pressure competitors into doing the same knowing that Sony wouldn't be able to sustain as long as Microsoft.

Bingo

 

[Robb]

That’d be bad. The day one titles are the only reason I’m subscribed.

 

[adamsapple]

The truth is that Starfield is not a day one Game Pass title because people who "buy" Starfield will be playing 5 days early.

People who buy Starfield's standard edition will play it on the release day along with people on GP.

People who pay more for the special editions which come with early access will get it a few days early.

 

[Heisenberg007]

People who buy Starfield's standard edition will play it on the release day along with people on GP.

People who pay more for the special editions which come with early access will get it a few days early.

I did not know about the Starfield standard edition. Thanks for the correction!

 

[Tomofdahook17]

Jesus Christ I can't believe these emails are leaking. This is wild!

 

[FireFly]

They'll losing in millions with each game release. Yes. Microsoft can absorb the cost but XBOX like any other division, is tasked with making a profit.

They've essentially left their closest competitor, retail and digital sales, uncontested. And converted their instal into believing that "wait for it to come to gamepass" is the viable option. Their is a reason Sony is showing you that they've never had it this good in their quarterly reports while at the same time Microsoft obfuscates the stae of XBOX and instead talks about revenue, sandwiches, and the number of reloads in their quarterly reports.

Game Pass was always a long term play based on building a subscriber base at the expense of short term profits. So it should be evaluated based on growth in subscriber numbers and sell-in to existing subscribers.

 

[ClosBSAS]

good for booty...i mean someone has some brains in there at least.