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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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CrustyBritches

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
Now we're onto a 2-tier PS5 release? That will be an anti-climatic ending...
MsH427C.jpg
 
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PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
Even though we don’t have a price for the XsX, and we don’t exactly know anything about the technical make up of the PS5 in TF, I’ve started to wonder how Nvidia (and even Intel) are feeling about the strong reveal by Microsoft, if this is the new normal level of console performance. And I’m even starting to wonder if AMD have found a way to internally use their NDA’ed knowledge of both systems to offer both Microsoft and Sony what they wanted (with a few AMD caveats, like Sony revealing late in August in exchange for a better chip price) to allow AMD to work a pincer move on Nvidia.

I presume AMD’s biggest problem selling top tier graphics cards in volume like Nvidia is that they are in a viscous cycle of selling less top tier cards, because they sell more mid-range tier cards to cost sensitive consumers, which then gives them less opportunity to evolve their top tier products (because of volume) as cheaply or as often as Nvidia, which means they fall behind on developer influence, and are then having games perform less well on AMD cards, because they are optimised around the pipeline performance balance Nvidia has chosen - which further exacerbates the perception of AMD’s inferior performance and with more power draw.

Microsoft being able to sell XsX at console prices presumably helps AMD damage Nvidia’s pricing structure, profitability and customer loyalty when they are forced to depreciate their top tier cards to sell to a wider audience – from fear those pc gamers are jumping to top tier AMD powered consoles like the XsX. The unit sales of the consoles should then also help with AMD’s ability to evolve their top products cheaper and faster. In the event Sony has gone very big on RT, using two AMD APU for something totalling +15TF of GCN focusing on RT, 4TF Ras + 11TF for RT. A late revealed PS5 of that spec would then be beating Nvidia top tier RTX on performance at console pricing, and XsX would be beating top tier Nvidia GTX and mid tier RTX at a console price. Combining those issues with both consoles having SSD as standard, and the PC gaming space would be in turmoil (for Intel and Nvidia) until a new hardware baseline that bettered the consoles on performance and price was re-established. In the turmoil AMD would presumably have a level playing field to sell processors and graphics cards to the top tier pc gamers.
 
Fun Fanboy

Fun Fanboy

Banned
DeepEnigma said:
It’s not what he said, do you guys even read?

He claims all four boxes are launching at the same time.
Click to expand...
I read dudes post who I quoted. Which his said something about coming in 2022.

So. Are we happy now that there's a lower PS sku that will hold back consoles at the higher mark? Because I remember reading that a lot all over the webs with Lockhart.


Edit.. .sorry for double post! Ooops!
 
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DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Fun Fanboy said:
I read dudes post who I quoted. Which his said something about coming in 2022.

So. Are we happy now that there's a lower PS sku that will hold back consoles at the higher mark? Because I remember reading that a lot all over the webs with Lockhart.


Edit.. .sorry for double post! Ooops!
Click to expand...

No, never liked the lower sku idea and never will.

Go to the source of the comment a few posts prior and not someone’s weird head canon and lack of comprehension.
 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
Fun Fanboy said:
I read dudes post who I quoted. Which his said something about coming in 2022.

So. Are we happy now that there's a lower PS sku that will hold back consoles at the higher mark? Because I remember reading that a lot all over the webs with Lockhart.


Edit.. .sorry for double post! Ooops!
Click to expand...

You come off so corny. For years ppl and the majority have always mentioned parity clauses and hating the fact one console was stronger than the other bcus it means devs are developing taking the lowest denominator into account. Majority of ppl feel (except you know the fanboys tht don't want to feel like tht bcus of lockhart) that way. If Sony had a lower end system lower than lockhart it would be the same thinking. It's same reason no games were made for Xbox x full potential or pros. Wtf wants tht? Stop trying to make this into a fanboy war to fuel your narrative.
 
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TheTechnician

TheTechnician

Banned
considering the fact that both Upgrade Consoles found their way into many homes should be enough prove to both companys that there is a High End or Premium Console Market out there.
It would solve so many Problems .
That being said - make no mistake about it - i meant UPGRADE Consoles. Not that Lockhart Bullhitto . So, have the regular Consoles designed as if you would go for only one SKU and then upgrade the premium Console on top of that.
 
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demigod

demigod

Member
CuriousToe said:
That doesn't make sense. First of all, the XSX or hypothetical PS5 Pro are not going anywhere near $800. That is obscene in the console market.

More importantly, you claim that XSX = PS5 Pro, but that the Pro may not hit until 2022? Wouldn't a hypothetical 2022 console release be another leap in tech (albeit, small)?

It honestly feels like you're just throwing shit out there to get a reaction. It'd be great if you're right. But how much do you genuinely believe in your information or sources?
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Lol, he said release now changed to 2022. I told you guys he doesn’t know anything.
 
devilNprada

devilNprada

Member
pawel86ck said:
Maybe this leak was correct after all and sony will indeed launch 2 SKUs next year as VFXVeteran suggest. 1000$ for the more expensive one😃
Click to expand...

It makes the most sense when you hear conflicting official comments like " It will be a premium product" and we expect adoption rate to be faster then ever"... That always baffled me because you can't have both.
 
demigod

demigod

Member
Fun Fanboy said:
I read dudes post who I quoted. Which his said something about coming in 2022.

So. Are we happy now that there's a lower PS sku that will hold back consoles at the higher mark? Because I remember reading that a lot all over the webs with Lockhart.


Edit.. .sorry for double post! Ooops!
Click to expand...

There is no lower sku, Sony fans are not ok with a 9tf + 12 tf. It’s beyond stupid.
 
tryDEATH

tryDEATH

Member
Trusting "insiders" is as bad as trusting "ITK's"(In the Know) in the sports world.

All they do is guesstimate and make predictions that turn out wrong 99% of the time to just make themselves feel a little more important in a community. They might know someones friend that actually knows someone that gets some useless info dripped down the grape wine, but that is it.

Any actual info is going to be unintentionally leaked by someone being careless not someone that is able to extract info from a legitimate source on command when they want like so many here seem to be able to. Anyone believing these insiders are able to get basically trade secrets on a whim are deluding themselves by trusting them.
 
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Actually the generational advances in a GPU micro-architecture have nothing to do with game engines or programming interfaces.

The base micro-architectural design corresponds to two things; an instruction set architecture and physical architectural design in silicon.

Generational advances that are often designated by numbered iterations, e.g. GCN 1, GCN 2, GCN 3 etc.. are pretty much defined by an arbitrary collection of added features to a core micro-architecture that remains largely the same.

It's mostly marketing. So I don't think it hard to believe that MS is referencing a subset of feature additions to the GPU micro-architecture to call XSX RDNA 2, when in fact it may not necessarily include all RDNA 2 feature additions that will exist on future desktop cards.

RDNA 2 will very likely comprise some optional features that are less relevant to home games consoles (e.g. a Tensor Core equivalent). So omitting them from XSX doesn't necessarily make XSX less than RDNA 2 when not every desktop chip marketed as RDNA 2 will include the same.

I would surmise that there are a core set of feature additions that will be considered to represent the second generation RDNA micro-architecture, e.g. VRS, RT, Machine Learning optimisations in the WGPs, in addition to some major power efficiency optimisations that were developed too late to be included in the first gen RDNA AMD products.

That said, the consoles will very likely include some unique customisations that will be exclusive to those projects; as they make sense in light of the overall system architectural design.
Click to expand...

Feel like you're very accurate here; neither system is going to need raw compute-orientated functionality that much so I can see them cutting down some of those features. Doesn't mean they aren't RDNA2-compliant. That said, I think the complication comes in given the fact RDNA2 is built on 7nm+ while RDNA is 7nm. So claiming it's RDNA2 has people feeling it's EUV. Honestly tho, I think both systems are still 7nm (Moore's Law Is Dead and AdoredTV both did some videos a couple months back talking about AMD's wafer production budgets and came to a conclusion that MS and Sony would have the required order amounts to fill in their wafer quota on 7nm with their next-gen systems), but are using so much RDNA2 features pulled in from the roadmap that they are "essentially" RDNA2.

Or at least the XSX is; PS5 will probably use the same mixed solution but how much of the RDNA2 feature set it utilizes is still up in the air. Actually it's still somewhat up in the air with XSX too, but we at least know more on that front that's been confirmed vs. PS5.

PaintTinJr said:
Even though we don’t have a price for the XsX, and we don’t exactly know anything about the technical make up of the PS5 in TF, I’ve started to wonder how Nvidia (and even Intel) are feeling about the strong reveal by Microsoft, if this is the new normal level of console performance. And I’m even starting to wonder if AMD have found a way to internally use their NDA’ed knowledge of both systems to offer both Microsoft and Sony what they wanted (with a few AMD caveats, like Sony revealing late in August in exchange for a better chip price) to allow AMD to work a pincer move on Nvidia.

I presume AMD’s biggest problem selling top tier graphics cards in volume like Nvidia is that they are in a viscous cycle of selling less top tier cards, because they sell more mid-range tier cards to cost sensitive consumers, which then gives them less opportunity to evolve their top tier products (because of volume) as cheaply or as often as Nvidia, which means they fall behind on developer influence, and are then having games perform less well on AMD cards, because they are optimised around the pipeline performance balance Nvidia has chosen - which further exacerbates the perception of AMD’s inferior performance and with more power draw.

Microsoft being able to sell XsX at console prices presumably helps AMD damage Nvidia’s pricing structure, profitability and customer loyalty when they are forced to depreciate their top tier cards to sell to a wider audience – from fear those pc gamers are jumping to top tier AMD powered consoles like the XsX. The unit sales of the consoles should then also help with AMD’s ability to evolve their top products cheaper and faster. In the event Sony has gone very big on RT, using two AMD APU for something totalling +15TF of GCN focusing on RT, 4TF Ras + 11TF for RT. A late revealed PS5 of that spec would then be beating Nvidia top tier RTX on performance at console pricing, and XsX would be beating top tier Nvidia GTX and mid tier RTX at a console price. Combining those issues with both consoles having SSD as standard, and the PC gaming space would be in turmoil (for Intel and Nvidia) until a new hardware baseline that bettered the consoles on performance and price was re-established. In the turmoil AMD would presumably have a level playing field to sell processors and graphics cards to the top tier pc gamers.
Click to expand...

It's an interesting situation, ain't it? ;)

Someone (I think it was either JareBear: Remastered JareBear: Remastered or K Kobi )asked a similar question in the XSX thread from yesterday. I answered saying there probably isn't as much overlap as some are thinking. Truth is the total percentage of PC gamers with the high-end cards is a lot smaller than those with the lower-end cards or even using iGPU solutions. Plus GPU cards sell to PC content creators and productivity users as well, not just gamers.

So I doubt XSX (or PS5 for that matter) will have too big an effect on Nvidia's client base for top-end cards, tho both systems will definitely benefit AMD and probably help them with pushing their GPU division further to compete with Nvidia. On that point I can see the consoles being troublesome for AMD, not because in and of themselves per se but because their success will help AMD do better with their GPU cards and then they can challenge Nvidia's presence on PC that way more effectively...

...Maybe. I mean, PS4's sold like 110 million and XBO's sold about 50 million. That combined's been 160 million or so, you'd think that would've been good enough for AMD to have really stick it to Nvidia by now but it hasn't happened. Maybe their margins on APU sales were too small; I know their GPU pricing on PC didn't give the margins for profit they wished (part of the reason why they've been pricing their new cards higher than some expected (or would've preferred)). Is that scenario something you might be referring to in your post? Because in that case I can definitely see AMD being a big problem for Nvidia in the PC space given next-gen sales plus better margins on APU sales plus better margins on GPU and CPU sales to customers and OEMs.
 
Smoke6

Smoke6

Member
o'dium said:
I don’t see $599.99, good god that would be a disaster. It’s essentially the price point that’s been a meme for years, and while we all know what you’re getting is worth that, it wouldn’t make sense with regard to the bom.

I see $499.99 with a possible, slight chance of $449.99 depending on how aggressive they want to be. Anything less that this and you’re in a realm of fairies and talking chipmunks.
Click to expand...
Not gonna happen, you’re literally gonna have X1X’s sitting on shelves as that’s still priced too high for what it offers!

damn y’all so hyped up you don’t even think straight on how this will have a major ripple effect on current gen hardware!

what’s the point of buying X game on a system priced just as high as the newest version and say you can get a free upgrade when you do buy the new system?

say X1X is $399 it’s not that old, holiday season comes with limited supply of SeX and people will be debating on whether to get the X1X for their kids that costs just a hundred fillers or so less than the system they intended to get or just wait!

you don’t want to put your customers in a situation like that especially around the holidays!
 
Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
Smoke6 said:
Not gonna happen, you’re literally gonna have X1X’s sitting on shelves as that’s still priced too high for what it offers!

damn y’all so hyped up you don’t even think straight on how this will have a major ripple effect on current gen hardware!

what’s the point of buying X game on a system priced just as high as the newest version and say you can get a free upgrade when you do buy the new system?

say X1X is $399 it’s not that old, holiday season comes with limited supply of SeX and people will be debating on whether to get the X1X for their kids that costs just a hundred fillers or so less than the system they intended to get or just wait!

you don’t want to put your customers in a situation like that especially around the holidays!
Click to expand...
I think someone said a few pages back that you can (or could) get an Xbox One X for $299, my memory is dog shit though so I could be wrong.

Edit: It's true, they are selling them on GAME for £260 https://www.game.co.uk/en/xbox-one-x-1tb-tom-clancys-the-division-2-bundle-2569623
 
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demigod

demigod

Member
tryDEATH said:
Trusting "insiders" is as bad as trusting "ITK's"(In the Know) in the sports world.

All they do is guesstimate and make predictions that turn out wrong 99% of the time to just make themselves feel a little more important in a community. They might know someones friend that actually knows someone that gets some useless info dripped down the grape wine, but that is it.

Any actual info is going to be unintentionally leaked by someone being careless not someone that is able to extract info from a legitimate source on command when they want like so many here seem to be able to. Anyone believing these insiders are able to get basically trade secrets on a whim are deluding themselves by trusting them.
Click to expand...

Klee and Osiris has seen next gen first hand.
 
EliteSmurf

EliteSmurf

Member
pawel86ck said:
gamergate.blog.jp

プレイステーション5の発売日が2020年12月4日に決定！価格は69,800円(税別)から : GamersGate

プレイステーション5の発売日が2020年12月4日(金)に決定した。価格は69,800円(税別)から。スタンダードモデルであるPS5 Standardは1TBのSSDを搭載し、基本機能を有している。上位モデルであるPS5 Premiumは4TBのSSDを搭載していて、レイトレーシング専用のGPUも別に搭載して
gamergate.blog.jp gamergate.blog.jp

Maybe this leak was correct after all and sony will indeed launch 2 SKUs next year as VFXVeteran suggest. 1000$ for the more expensive one😃
Click to expand...

The fact that I can't identify if you are being serious or not by even maybe speculating the idea of Sony bringing out two SKUs and one being priced at a massive price as high as $1000 shows I've done too much lurking in this thread .
News flash if you actually think what Veteran said is actually happening . It is not lmao 🤣.
 
demigod

demigod

Member
Smoke6 said:
Not gonna happen, you’re literally gonna have X1X’s sitting on shelves as that’s still priced too high for what it offers!

damn y’all so hyped up you don’t even think straight on how this will have a major ripple effect on current gen hardware!

what’s the point of buying X game on a system priced just as high as the newest version and say you can get a free upgrade when you do buy the new system?

say X1X is $399 it’s not that old, holiday season comes with limited supply of SeX and people will be debating on whether to get the X1X for their kids that costs just a hundred fillers or so less than the system they intended to get or just wait!

you don’t want to put your customers in a situation like that especially around the holidays!
Click to expand...

FYI X1X has been down to $299 at times. In fact i got a notification on my phone last week about it.
 
TLZ

TLZ

Banned
VFXVeteran said:
I heard that there are 2 consoles per company. The mid-gen refreshes are going to be introduced at release so that these consoles can run the entire 7yr cycle.

Also no dates on when the top models will come out for PS5.

My guess is that they are going to release both models at the same time.
Click to expand...
Dude you're contradicting yourself there. First you say they're all going to be released at the same time, then you say you don't know when the top model's coming out.




giphy.gif
 
Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
demigod said:
FYI X1X has been down to $299 at times. In fact i got a notification on my phone last week about it.
Click to expand...
I'm looking on GAME (overpriced UK store) and the Pro costs more than the One X. What in the fuck? (And a limited edition Kingdom Hearts Pro for £680 lol, are they high?).

Edit: Oh the Kingdom Hearts one is a 3rd party seller, not GAME.
 
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C

CuriousToe

Member
Fun Fanboy said:
I read dudes post who I quoted. Which his said something about coming in 2022.

So. Are we happy now that there's a lower PS sku that will hold back consoles at the higher mark? Because I remember reading that a lot all over the webs with Lockhart.


Edit.. .sorry for double post! Ooops!
Click to expand...

I was deliberately calling out the inconsistencies of VFX's 'information'. There's no reason to believe a 2022 Pro release at this stage.

Can you also stop trying to bait console wars.
 
demigod

demigod

Member
Mr Moose said:
I'm looking on GAME (overpriced UK store) and the Pro costs more than the One X. What in the fuck? (And a limited edition Kingdom Hearts Pro for £680 lol, are they high?).

Edit: Oh the Kingdom Hearts one is a 3rd party seller, not GAME.
Click to expand...

Because $499 was overpriced for it from the beginning. It’s why it was able to drop down in price so quick. You could’ve found it for $399 like 4 months after it released.

Also Sony knows their machine sells so they aren’t incline to firesale their consoles outside of holidays.
 
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Smoke6

Smoke6

Member
splattered said:
Ok so stupid question time again :D

Was just thinking... what if Sony DID have an 8tf or 9TF machine ready to go early on but found out what the competition was cooking so they freaked and reworked their machine to be 13tf?

Should we expect the machine to be $599 or even $699 so they can try and recover all the rework in the new console?

Maybe this is what originally happened and that's why they've stopped investing in major events and have been so quiet... trying to save money where they can and figure out how big and fat they can make the price tag on this thing so they don't eat an enormous loss before they even get to the official starting line.

Just a thought. :unsure:
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Dunno if this has been answered already but these events are negligible to the budget of the playstation console! Events go to the marketing aspect of all this as I’m quite sure skipping E3 to me means something else is going on and those resources could be out to use elsewhere like acquisitions or finding smaller upcoming studios and marketing them!
 
Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
demigod said:
Because $499 was overpriced for it from the beginning. It’s why it was able to drop down in price so quick. You could’ve found it for $399 like 4 months after it released.

Also Sony knows their machine sells so they aren’t incline to firesale their consoles outside of holidays.
Click to expand...
A fair amount cheaper than the Pro though? I guess it's a supply and demand thing, still kinda surprising to me. Sony are killing it this gen, even while keeping their prices pretty high (took a leaf out of Nintendos book lol).

Smoke6 said:
Dunno if this has been answered already but these events are negligible to the budget of the playstation console! Events go to the marketing aspect of all this as I’m quite sure skipping E3 to me means something else is going on and those resources could be out to use elsewhere like acquisitions or finding smaller upcoming studios and marketing them!
Click to expand...
Is it true that E3 costs them 30-60M to attend? Getting doxxed and paying millions for it, glad Sony are skipping it. (I hope they do something around that time for us gamers though, because that shit is like Christmas for me).
 
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W

wowbaggerBR

Member
VFXVeteran said:
To add.. the price of the XSX and PS5 Pro is a major concern. It could go as high as $800. The XSX is literally the latest development for AMD. The price could interfere with Nvidia's 2080-series of cards if priced much lower than the 2080 Super. I hope that Nvidia drops their prices down when the top of the line next-gen consoles come out *IF* they cost much lower than the 2080. Also PS5 Pro might not see the light of day until 2022.
Click to expand...

Riiiiiiiight, so Sony will (could) be releasing a PS5 Pro as a Xbox Series X rival with the same hardware profile as the 2020 Series X. In 2022.
 
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