Agnostic2020
Member
Xsx is almost 75% of the size of ps5 dev kit lol
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Moridianae
Member
That's what I'm saying. Cerny came out almost a year ago and said the PS5 had HW raytracing and people are like "Nah, he lied."
What?
Microsoft entered into an agreement with Sony a while back to help them with their cloud stuff(I don't recall when exactly).
Based on that, even if it was a mutual thing for one purpose, we really believe neither one had or has any idea what the other was shooting for in specifications?
I'm a bit hard pressed to believe that, honestly.
The biggest thing that gets me is "b-b-but Github." Nothing about it was conclusive on anything.
Also,
OsirisBlack
has sent numerous validations to Mod of War, including a screenshot that was *verified* as legitimate and somehow, he doesn't know what he's talking about when he speaks on what each system has.
He even said the XSX has a slight advantage at this juncture, though kits aren't final for either system. But slight was stressed and *slight* is not 9.2TF vs 12TF to me.
What?
Microsoft entered into an agreement with Sony a while back to help them with their cloud stuff(I don't recall when exactly).
Based on that, even if it was a mutual thing for one purpose, we really believe neither one had or has any idea what the other was shooting for in specifications?
I'm a bit hard pressed to believe that, honestly.
The biggest thing that gets me is "b-b-but Github." Nothing about it was conclusive on anything.
Also,
OsirisBlack
has sent numerous validations to Mod of War, including a screenshot that was *verified* as legitimate and somehow, he doesn't know what he's talking about when he speaks on what each system has.He even said the XSX has a slight advantage at this juncture, though kits aren't final for either system. But slight was stressed and *slight* is not 9.2TF vs 12TF to me.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Based on availability, no. Based on price, sure. A rumored 350 mm^2 APU at 7nm would be around $150. A 14/15 TF APU would be 550 mm^2 for the GPU alone, then add a Zen 2 on top. You'd end up at 600+ mm^2 and would pay almost $300 for the APU alone. You may also want to look at the power consumption of such a beefy GPU. 18 TF would be 350 Watt. Just for the GPU. You are looking at a 350 to 400 Watt console, compared to a 200 Watt PS4. It would also create absolutely massive amounts of heat.
Its not, its 200W from wall.
splattered
Member
The insiders all seem to be basing their information on dev kits, not actual home retail units. That's one of the problems I have with insider "leaks"
SgtCaffran
Member
Most people on this thread don't think 14/15TF will happen - thank god! - but let's say 10.5TF seems to be the low end of the spectrum and high 12.xTF the high end of the spectrum. Based on plenty of insider reports. I think the conclusion we SHOULD take from this is that both XsX and PS5 will be very powerful and that next gen games will be awesome!
Basing information on dev kits AND target specs. That's probably the reason why some numbers differ a little bit between reports. That and the fact that there are at least three different PS5 devkits that are in hands of developers (1st, 3rd, small, large, etc) at different times.
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And every other PS dev kit was at min 2x the volume of retail console.
Agnostic2020
Member
yea but this one is also double ps4 pro dev kit in size . So even when it is reduced it is still gonna be a bery big console
Is it really? I mean, this is PS4Pro dev kit.
To me looks gigantic and much bigger then PS4Pro regular console is (like PS2, PS3 and PS4 were).
This is PS5 dev kit
If anything, going by controller size, PS4Pro dev kit has more volume I think.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Null_Key
Neo Member
Well that is to be expected. You can't base something that hasn't been shown or revealed. The only ones that have real hand knowledge on the real models are specific people in Sony, and there is no way a leak would happen so easily at that level. Dev kits are in circulation so it's much easier to speculate on what the final product might be.
Moridianae
Member
So--
I read this morning that NiS is also teasing a game for March 3rd. Kojima is firing about something "next week", etc.
Musings--Sony drops a sudden bomb on a lazy Saturday or Sunday..or copies Microsoft with an early morning Monday shot with a State of Play announcement with very little warning.
Is it expected or orthodox? No, but they've not been known for that of late and it would definitely send the hype train screaming out of the gate, considering how just the logo went viral.
Think about it--what if they put out a tweet for a small teaser that said only the date and a tagline, something like "The silence is over. March 3rd, 2020."
People would go berserk.
I read this morning that NiS is also teasing a game for March 3rd. Kojima is firing about something "next week", etc.
Musings--Sony drops a sudden bomb on a lazy Saturday or Sunday..or copies Microsoft with an early morning Monday shot with a State of Play announcement with very little warning.
Is it expected or orthodox? No, but they've not been known for that of late and it would definitely send the hype train screaming out of the gate, considering how just the logo went viral.
Think about it--what if they put out a tweet for a small teaser that said only the date and a tagline, something like "The silence is over. March 3rd, 2020."
People would go berserk.
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LED Guy?
Banned
I get you, don't worry man, what we saw from the official announcements so far are all from what he said, and will be true with the PS5.
MilkyJoe
Member
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Because he is not a fanboy but instead uses verifiable knowledge to estimate the BOM.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Agnostic2020
Member
Pro dev kit is almost 60% in volume compared to ps5. Anyways this discussion is not going anywhere but we will come back to it in few months and see if ps5 is 36 cu or Sony has played a 4D chess with Xbox community and sent them so deep down the 36 cu rabbit holeIs it really? I mean, this is PS4Pro dev kit.
To me looks gigantic and much bigger then PS4Pro regular console is (like PS2, PS3 and PS4 were).
This is PS5 dev kit
If anything, going by controller size, PS4Pro dev kit has more volume I think.
Agnostic2020
Member
Do you have numbers, I am interested, because there is another shot of PS5 dev kit and I frankly doubt its bigger then Pro dev kit, let alone with 60% more volume (just by losing inside part of V you lose bunch of volume anyway).Pro dev kit is almost 60% in volume compared to ps5. Anyways this discussion is not going anywhere but we will come back to it in few months and see if ps5 is 36 cu or Sony has played a 4D chess with Xbox community and sent them so deep down the 36 cu rabbit hole
Fatal Enigma
Member
That 36cu rabbit hole is an AMD thing, not a sony 4d chess thing thoughPro dev kit is almost 60% in volume compared to ps5. Anyways this discussion is not going anywhere but we will come back to it in few months and see if ps5 is 36 cu or Sony has played a 4D chess with Xbox community and sent them so deep down the 36 cu rabbit hole
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Even if it is 10.5 would still be less of a difference compared to PS4 and original One. Assuming SeX is exactly 12.00, 1.5 tf would be around 12-15% or something, and I still believe 10.5 is around the minimum we will get as you say. That, without knowing which of the two has better RAM, CPU and storage. We are all arguing about shits and giggles.
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Null_Key
Neo Member
I'm with you whether it be the new xbox or the ps5 I no longer see a scenario where the devices are 399, At the bare minimum it's 499, considering the technology is being put behind. If Analysts parts per is to be assumed accurate like in the PS5 estimate of 450, people easily forget the RD cost, Certification cost, and PR. These factors alone would balloon it to 500 plus easily. I really doubt Sony or even Microsoft are willing to go through the type of loss that was incurred by PS3, as royalty alone won't subsidize the cost.He is a fanboy and yet you say xsx is 399
ethomaz
Banned
Nope.
It even use a plug rated as > 250W.
Of course it depends of the game but a lot of them crossed the 200W power consumption.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Two different scenarios. I've been saying 499 since the beginning but ps3 was around 180 loss and although thy aren't willing to take tht much of a loss its safe to say $100 loss is doable and they will. Back in ps3 thy only relied on software sales to recoup losses bcus thy didn't have psplus and tons of subscription money they have now. They'll take at least a $100 loss knowing subscriptions will more than cover it.
M.Night Shyamalan
Member
delusional
"A delusional person believes things that couldn't possibly be true. If you're convinced that the microwave is attempting to control your thoughts, you are, sadly, delusional.
Delusional comes from a Latin word meaning "deceiving." So delusional thinking is kind of like deceiving yourself by believing outrageous things. Delusional thoughts are often a sign of mental illness, but the word can also be used more loosely to describe behavior that is just not realistic. If your friend thinks he's going to get rich playing video games, he's probably not mentally ill, but it's not a stretch to call him delusional."
I am pretty sure you are saying anyone that believes PS5 is 13TF or more is delusional. That you have insider knowledge from your developer friends that is fact and PS5 wont be 13TF or greater and anyone that believes contrarily to your opinion is delusional.
Agnostic2020
Member
Yea but whole Xbox community fell for it as seen in this thread so 4D chess for ps5 by amd or SonyThat 36cu rabbit hole is an AMD thing, not a sony 4d chess thing though
M.Night Shyamalan
Member
they know have cash cow PS plus and a strong market share allowing them to expect most customers to
1) buy 1 or more games at launch that are 1st party
2) renew or extend ps plus
3) contribute to psn sales generously thereby mitigating a big loss on each ps5 sold. they are far stronger financially now and yet even then they took a gamble on ps4 (380$ bom) when 360 and ps3 was neck and neck most the generation.
Now they can gamble on bigger loss knowing the ps brand wipes the floor with xbox brand in every territory even in the US.
Agnostic2020
Member
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
Dammit, he mentioned that what he always is saying is fact. Man, i'm disappointed.
ethomaz
Banned
Yes it is.
I dont think so, no.
Like I said a lot of games crossed that your 200W lol
Late games really pushed the consumption to hevens.
BTW specification wise the PSU in original PS3 is 380W so it can go up to there without big issues.
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Fatal Enigma
Member
So github happened because sony or amd is playing 4d chess against the xbox community?
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Null_Key
Neo Member
The lost of 100 per is still too high, unless the cost of games goes up to help subsidize it, either that or you will likely see new ways to monetize the current games market, business are for profit and all businesses work for it's investors or stakeholders, in fact in business ethics, the most ethical thing a CEO must do is maximize profits, its why kutaragi was dethroned so early in PS3 life-cycle. Micro Transaction model will evolve and likely be unattractive to consumers, the key for business here is to balance it, so as to not turn off too many people. As I said I don't work in the gaming industry, but I do work in the I.T. and assessing risks, asset, security is something I do know fairly well.
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Agnostic2020
Member
If it is not 36 Then sure cause as you see some Xbox fans do not believe any scenario other than 36 cu so if it is not 36 cu someone pulled magic according to them or played 4D chess .these are their terms not mineSo github happened because sony or amd is playing 4d chess against the xbox community?
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
No. I’m not saying anything of the sort. I’m saying that there are quite obvious theoretical limits to how things work in conjunction with each other, and that you are essentially pushing common sense and proven theory aside, to get your box of choice to a level of performance that isn’t realistic.
You are free to believe whatever you want. Believe the earth is flat for all I care? But when people show you pictures of it round, don’t move the goal posts and call people crazy. Work within the confines of reality. I’ll say this again, and then my time in this thread talking about anything of substance is sorted:
What’s more plausible? That Sony have an 10.5-11.5tf machine that has a few parts better than MS and bridges the gap. A machine that is on par with performance as everybody says, matches what a lot of what people say including people I know personally, and also matches the rumoured bom costs, making it an achievable price point for mass market appeal but still higher than we have seen before.
Or....... that Sony have some how managed to make a machine cheaper than anybody else on the planet, that runs faster than the SX not by a little but by a considerable amount, have got around voltage and heat issues and increased the yields on their chips higher than anybody has ever managed before to this point, including stuck it all inside a much smaller traditional form factor.
Remember it’s not the fact that it’s faster that’s the issue. It’s the fact that 12-13tf is already pushing limits of what is known to be usable on a mass market level with yields that won’t sink a company and heat that will be manageable, all at a good price. MS will have stopped at the level they are because they know this, and yes, anybody who understands technology knows that once you go past this point with this level of technology at this supposed price range, you are going to get massive diminishing returns for much more risk.
I would be saying the exact same thing the other way around, it just so happens though that it’s not, and as such you don’t like that. Notice that you people are all crying about anything the same. 9tf or 0.5 off of 12. It doesn’t matter, you won’t entertain the idea, at all, that it’s NOT the fastest thing in the world. And I’m not saying it’s impossible, no... I’m saying it’s HIGHLY unlikely.
But please keep on calling me delusional now for the second time for using actual back-up-able hard data as to why these expectations are unrealistic.
Also, welcome to the block club. I don’t have time for people who can’t hear other opinions. You’ll notice several people here that I both disagree with and disagree with me, who are NOT acting like children. Maybe take some tips from that.
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No, you said plug is rated 250+ W. PS4Pro has 300W power supply rate yet it never crosses 170W.
Gaming consumption of PS3 is ~200W and this can be verified on literally dozens of videos and benchmarks. Find me one with 250W plus (not rated, measured).
So, most that game consoles hovered around was 180-200W (360/PS3 and XBX).
All others were well down.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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ethomaz
Banned
From Sony Japanese site QA.No, you said plug is rated 250+ W. PS4Pro has 300W power supply rate yet it never crosses 170W.
Gaming consumption of PS3 is ~200W and this can be verified on literally dozens of videos and benchmarks. Find me one with 250W plus (not rated, measured).
So, most that game consoles hovered around was 180-200W (360/PS3 and XBX).
All others were well down.
Q: How much power does the system consume?
A: At most, about 380 W (60GB and 20GB)
And yes some games go well over 200W.
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David Ricardo
Member
None of that (flops/ram) is confirmed but it's possible that sony is saving in the SSD, or ram, cooling is cheaper... Xbox Ones BOM was 10$ higher than PS4s even though PS4 was more powerful. Who knows?
If PS5 is really 13 tflops, I think the savings would be in ram and/or SSD, but there is too much we don't know yet.
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sonomamashine
Member
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
xbox one bom also includes the Kinect which ate up way too much money, and also they paid above the odds for outdated memory compared to ps4. It was... a fuck up. No way else to see it.
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And yet, every benchmark posted has it 180-200W and absolutely nowhere near 380W (lol).
And yet you couldnt find single one crossing 200W, let alone 250W or 300W.
I mean, entire PC with 7800GTX card maxes out at 240W, and that card is PS3 equivalent but on 110nm node and not 90nm. So, there is no doubt, PS3 is 180-200W system, not 300+W you are saying (for whatever the reason, you can literally google PS3 power consumption and check yourself).
ethomaz
Banned
Nope.
It go well over 200W.
Your limitation talk doesn’t exists lol
BTW you own graph shows games crossing 200W... you just show one thing and says another lol
PS. I was about to make the test for you but I checked my PS3 and it is already a revision of the Cell
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Null_Key
Neo Member
Well to be fair Xbox original goal was to be an all-in-one entertainment box, and wasn't using an "outdated memory", in fact it was the generally the most accepted memory for general processing, where as Sony put all there eggs into gaming basket which made using GDDR-- GDDR while excellent for running parallel algorithms aren't exactly the best for general application, but to combat the lost of bandwidth xbox used part of the die size for esram at the cost of die space. Had Xbox gone with a PS4 like approach it would have likely be a similar console. In many ways microsoft got too greedy for it's own good and arrogant and in the end thats what cost them this generation. In hindsight Microsoft not only wanted a bigger market share, it also wanted to increase the market above the niche level it is now into a realm simliar to a mobile market and crashed and burned.
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Agnostic2020
Member
The fact that even one game went to 203 watt should tell u they have to design it for minimum 250 watt as there is a safety overhead accounted .
FranXico
Member
If you go into that thread and read the responses, you will see how everybody who tried to explain that to them got trashed for "fanboy logic" and "spin".
And for every benchmark I posted, you replied with "nope, it can go beyond".
Have a good day, this is futile. I hope everyone can see that you people do not wish to debate or post data behind your posts, but you sure love to make stuff up in order to get your point across.
ethomaz
Banned
Your own bench shows going over 200W.
Are you really serious? Lol
There is no 200W limitation and you were wrong.
Late games push well over 200W on original PS3.
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