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[Chronos24]

It just really amazes me how people here have to cling so tightly to their respective box from whatever respective company they bought it from. Your purchase was made and you feel you have to verify such purchase we get it, but come on people. Can we really not be happy on either side? Yay Microsoft is launching a beast cool. Yay PS5 is sure to be in the ballpark on specs and have PSVR2 on the way as well as their amazing first party games. People have legitimate reasons for owning any console and don't need to get all butthurt because someone else prefers a different console. Me personally, I own all 3 current consoles all for different reasons. I own my Switch for it's exclusives and portability. I own my PS4 pro for VR and some of their exclusive games. I own an Xbox One X for multiplayer and multiplatform games because I believe they perform best there. I could give zero shits which one is more powerful or whatever. Did you buy a PS4? Did you have fun with it? Awesome that's what matters. Did you buy an Xbox? Did you have fun with it? See what I'm getting at here? Seriously WHO CARES which one is has more teraflops or RAM or what have you. Give me a damn good game that performs like it should and all that shit goes out the window.

 

[tflopsmatter]

So $800?

Stop being ridiculous. It would not cost 800 dollars to produce a 13 or 14Tflop PS5. Why would you make up such a crazy number like that? Are you intentionally trying to provoke those of us who don't buy into the false idea that the PS5 is going to be a gimped system?

 

[Moridianae]

With all that has happened in the last couple of months, I cannot understand the resistance in this thread.

What can and cannot be done in consoles is not up to you and your knowledge, within a certain spectrum. Everything has changed with the new generation.

We have a rough idea of what the BOM may be for each system via Zhuge, but not a definitive answer. We don't know what they pay for parts, only that the smart money is it is quite a bit less than us of course.

My point again is this--PS5 is probably anywhere from 11.5 to 13TF. So much evidence points to it being on par or having a negligible edge over the XSX.

Too many people have a hard time accepting the rules have changed, I see it on here every single day. There are STILL people who doubt Microsoft.

It took Microsoft coming out TWICE to confirm 12TF RDNA before anybody would believe them. Everybody kept doubting and saying he was talking GCN, blah blah.

Sony hasn't said a single fucking word spec-wise yet and its the same story:

"Well, they can't be close. They can't be equal. They can't be 11 or 12 or 13TF."

Why? Microsoft did it so somehow Sony, because they've pressed the mute button, can't be also? Come on.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Rubbish

You do realise that by saying somebody can’t like Xbox and still post without bias and talk factually...

...that you’re essentially saying the same thing for PlayStation fans

So which is it? Because you sound utterly off the chart right now, and upset for... I actually have no idea?

 

[it_wasn't_me]

So $800?

Stop being ridiculous. It would not cost 800 dollars to produce a 13 or 14Tflop PS5. Why would you make up such a crazy number like that? Are you intentionally trying to provoke those of us who don't buy into the false idea that the PS5 is going to be a gimped system?

It's not necessary if TF number is higher, console will be priced higher. What if PS5 will be in the same price range as XSX and still more powerful?

 

[it_wasn't_me]

You do realise that by saying somebody can’t like Xbox and still post without bias and talk factually...

...that you’re essentially saying the same thing for PlayStation fans

So which is it? Because you sound utterly off the chart right now, and upset for... I actually have no idea?

Yours posts are just pointed at you, because...it's your posts actually. Don't hold us a lectures about common sense. You proved it with that posts of yours.

 

[tflopsmatter]

It just really amazes me how people here have to cling so tightly to their respective box from whatever respective company they bought it from. Your purchase was made and you feel you have to verify such purchase we get it, but come on people. Can we really not be happy on either side? Yay Microsoft is launching a beast cool. Yay PS5 is sure to be in the ballpark on specs and have PSVR2 on the way as well as their amazing first party games. People have legitimate reasons for owning any console and don't need to get all butthurt because someone else prefers a different console. Me personally, I own all 3 current consoles all for different reasons. I own my Switch for it's exclusives and portability. I own my PS4 pro for VR and some of their exclusive games. I own an Xbox One X for multiplayer and multiplatform games because I believe they perform best there. I could give zero shits which one is more powerful or whatever. Did you buy a PS4? Did you have fun with it? Awesome that's what matters. Did you buy an Xbox? Did you have fun with it? See what I'm getting at here? Seriously WHO CARES which one is has more teraflops or RAM or what have you. Give me a damn good game that performs like it should and all that shit goes out the window.

I care about photorealistic graphics. To obtain those graphics, especially with developers focusing on 4K to save in development costs, we need very powerful consoles. I would specifically say we need a true generational leap. The XBox Series X is obviously a generational leap because it has 8X the teraflops of the XBox One S. I'm also certain that the PS5 will have at least 12TF and most likely 13TF so Sony can say that it has at least seven times the TFLOPS of the PS4.

We are in an age where it's taking more and more graphical power to push past the uncanny valley. Sony and Microsoft know this. If a system doesn't at least have seven times the TF of the previous console, it's trash. I wouldn't buy a PS5 with 9.2TF if Sony was selling it for 299.

 

[tflopsmatter]

It's not necessary if TF number is higher, console will be priced higher. What if PS5 will be in the same price range as XSX and still more powerful?

The PS5 is going to be 13-14TF and cost no more than 499.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Yours posts are just pointed at you, because...it's your posts actually. Don't talk to us about common sense. You proved it with that posts.

So essentially, you’ve took umbrage with a guy on a forum who is posting technical analysis and posting good and bad for both, because of *reasons*, even being a sad act who has gone back and searched for his personal posts to try and get one over, all while not posting anything of substance at all and starting a flame war for, again, *reasons*

Ok chief. Welcome to the block list. I don’t have the energy.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

So essentially, you’ve took umbrage with a guy on a forum who is posting technical analysis and posting gold and bad for both, because of *reasons*, even being a sad act who has gone back and searched for his personal posts to try and get one over, all while not posting anything of substance at all and starting a flame war for, again, *reasons*

Ok chief. Welcome to the block list. I don’t have the energy.

You're lucky that some members here have the energy to read your posts about common sense and at least are grounded, unlike you. LOL

 

[SgtCaffran]

That's BS and you know it. For the longest time 10 TF were seen as highly likely for both consoles. Only when XSX was rumored to be 12 TF did the messaging change and Team Blue started to talk about 12+ TF. They only do it because it means Xbox is lower. It's not a positive standpoint, it's exactly the same.

The vast majority of the vetted insiders with some actual history have been saying the two will be nearly identical for months now. Klee, jason schreier, Osiris and others. So yes you are right, considering both have been thought to be so close, when RDNA 12TF was confirmed for XsX that also means that the PS5 target of 12TF gained a lot more substance than it already had.

That fact has nothing to do with Sony fans rooting against the XsX, because that's not what has been happening in this thread. There will always be exceptions but in general I see Sony fans wishing for two almost identical machines! (11 vs 12, 12 vs 13, doesn't matter)

However, the past pages show only a strong desire for PS5 to be 9.2TF, which doesnt make any sense at [email protected] (no disabled cores so expensive die) or 36CU@2GHz (crazy high clockspeed that requires high bin dies, again expensive). A more realistic number would be 8.2TF with [email protected] and considering the Xbox One X is 6TF, that's just ridiculous.

So no, the two standpoints are not exactly the same. As a PS4 owner, I just want the best PS5 and I don't really care what the XsX will bring. I want to be positive about the next generation, about the next Playstation. I have no urge to spew negativity about the other box if I have no intention of playing on it... And I really don't understand why some people do have that urge.

 

[K.N.W.]

Ooooh, look at what I thought! I'm almost 100% sure that new consoles have a GCN/RDNA hybrid GPU, because they need to be compatible with older gen (the GCN side) and have RDNA features (for better next gen performances). What if they have two modes? One that uses GCN's features set, for PS4/XB1 compatibility, and another that pushes RDNA for new games. Then, benchmarking those two modes, would give them respectively ~9 TFLOPs and ~12 TFLOPs respectively. Maybe.

 

[RaySoft]

ask digital foundry who always cold boot their systems to avoid having inaccurate analysis because rest mode will fuck with performance.

I always "turn off" my PS4 into rest mode.
I've never had any problems with restmode on my day1 ps4, since the feature was available.

 

[01011001]

Ooooh, look at what I thought! I'm almost 100% sure that new consoles have a GCN/RDNA hybrid GPU, because they need to be compatible with older gen (the GCN side) and have RDNA features (for better next gen performances). What if they have two modes? One that uses GCN's features set, for PS4/XB1 compatibility, and another that pushes RDNA for new games. Then, benchmarking those two modes, would give them respectively ~9 TFLOPs and ~12 TFLOPs respectively. Maybe.

no they won't. that is a ridiculous idea.

the Xbox One is backwards compatible with 360 without having any old hardware in it.

it is backwards compatible with og Xbox which used Nvidia hardware.

and now with PC like architectures that's like saying every new PC gpu needs to have GCN parts in it to play older PC games...
it's nonsensical.

 

[K.N.W.]

no they won't. that is a ridiculous idea.

the Xbox One is backwards compatible with 360 without having any old hardware in it.

it is backwards compatible with og Xbox which used Nvidia hardware.

and now with PC like architectures that's like saying every new PC gpu needs to have GCN parts in it to play older PC games...
it's nonsensical.

360 games are patched.
Pc games use APIs.
Do you know what you are talking about??

 

[SlimySnake]

That's BS and you know it. For the longest time 10 TF were seen as highly likely for both consoles. Only when XSX was rumored to be 12 TF did the messaging change and Team Blue started to talk about 12+ TF. They only do it because it means Xbox is lower. It's not a positive standpoint, it's exactly the same.

you are delusional and are clearly projecting. It's flat out false to suggest that team blue was the the one was talking about thermals and what's realistic. That was always the guys who liked your post. Team Xbox.

R600 took on like 20 posters all by himself because we dared to believe klee's double digit to be more than ten flpps and Jason's aiming to beat stadia's number before that. Colbert and others did the same thing on the other board.

Like i said you are projecting. Its clear now that these guys always knew the Xbox was going to be 12 tflops and wanted ps5 to be 8-9 tflops because they had access to the github leaks beforehand. Sony fans were the ones against any kind of power gap and that's exactly why they hated the Lockhart. It was literally the other way around.

Stop making shit up. You are 63 years old. You can be a fanboy and its great to be that passionate about anything at that age. But don't go around rewriting history. It's all here in this thread, on timdogs twitter and 11 era threads. Sony fans have wanted the ps5 to be 12-14 tflops back when we were gcn and at least 12 tflops now That we are rdna. Hell, Spinning bird kick was at 18 tflops and got himself perma banned from both forums for it.

Just stop lying. It makes the discourse even worse than it already is.

 

[01011001]

I always "turn off" my PS4 into rest mode.
I've never had any problems with restmode on my day1 ps4, since the feature was available.

how do you know that?
what rest mode has been shown to do with some games is reduce performance in some cases.
meaning games have more framedrops than usual.

and I bet you're not sitting there with hard data on how fluid the game should run at any given moment do you?

I just don't want to risk having more framedrops than most console games these days have anyways... it's bad enough as it is and I want to reduce possible performance issues wherever I can.
so I don't use rest mode

 

[01011001]

360 games are patched.
Pc games use APIs.
Do you know what you are talking about??

the 360 games are not patched.
they come with an emulator which is purpose made.

Consoles also use APIs

do you know what you're talking about?

 

[Kusarigama]

So essentially, you’ve took umbrage with a guy on a forum who is posting technical analysis and posting good and bad for both, because of *reasons*, even being a sad act who has gone back and searched for his personal posts to try and get one over, all while not posting anything of substance at all and starting a flame war for, again, *reasons*

Ok chief. Welcome to the block list. I don’t have the energy.

With all due respect your posts read very condescending and haughty. You are a clear XBox cult fanboy.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Stop being ridiculous. It would not cost 800 dollars to produce a 13 or 14Tflop PS5. Why would you make up such a crazy number like that? Are you intentionally trying to provoke those of us who don't buy into the false idea that the PS5 is going to be a gimped system?

14 TF would cost about $700-$800 BOM . Everything goes up in price. You have to feed this monster with power, cool it off, provide more memory and bandwidth. It all goes up in price.

 

[LED Guy?]

The vast majority of the vetted insiders with some actual history have been saying the two will be nearly identical for months now. Klee, jason schreier, Osiris and others. So yes you are right, considering both have been thought to be so close, when RDNA 12TF was confirmed for XsX that also means that the PS5 target of 12TF gained a lot more substance then it already had.

That fact has nothing to do with Sony fans rooting against the XsX, because that's not what has been happening in this thread. There will always be exceptions but in general I see Sony fans wishing for two almost identical machines! (11 vs 12, 12 vs 13, doesn't matter)

However, the past pages show only a strong desire for PS5 to be 9.2TF, which doesnt make any sense at [email protected] (no disabled cores so expensive die) or 36CU@2GHz (crazy high clockspeed that requires high bin dies, again expensive). A more realistic number would be 8.2TF with [email protected] and considering the Xbox One X is 6TF, that's just ridiculous.

So no, the two standpoints are not exactly the same. As a PS4 owner, I just want the best PS5 and I don't really care what the XsX will bring. I want to be positive about the next generation, about the next Playstation. I have no urge to spew negativity about the other box if I have no intention of playing on it... And I really don't understand why some people do have that urge.

I agree with you man, I mean, the 1st time WE THOUGHT WE WOULD BE GETTING NEXT-GEN CONSOLES WITH DOUBLE DIGITS NUMBERS is when Kleegamefan said it back in July when no one knew this would happen, we were all basing our predictions on AMD's latest hot new GFX cards like the RX 5700 & RX 5700 XT (that released in July 2019) with RDNA TFs calculation in mind, we were all saying that both consoles will be in the 8 to 9 TFs and that it is impossible to go past that due to thermals and all that, then we asked him if they were RDNA numbers and if they are more powerful than AMD's RX 5700 XT's 9.75 TFs.........then he said that his developer friend said "YES" and Klee confirmed that both consoles are going to be more powerful and more feature-packed and advanced than any of AMD's releases in 2019.

I remember #TeamThermals and #TeamRealistic blocked Klee for saying that they are more powerful than those cards.

This was later CONFIRMED by Digital Foundry in December of 2019, so 5 months after what Kleegamefan said, and look now with the XSX, it is RDNA 2 with HW RT & VRS and it is 12 TFs......he was right from the very beginning before Jason Schreier, before Tom Warren, before Matt, before Windows Central, before basically anyone.

And yet we still get people who are harassing him all over the internet from ResetEra to here to Twitter, most of them are angry Xbox fanboys triggered because he said the PS5 is a bit more powerful than XSX.

He was right with the XSX, and now he'll be right with the PlayStation 5........and oh man I can't wait for the meltdowns.....i'm telling you guys, it will not look good on y'all......alright that's my comment on this matter

 

[K.N.W.]

the 360 games are not patched.
they come with an emulator which is purpose made.

Consoles also use APIs

do you know what you're talking about?

Try Splinter Cell Chaos Theory on new hardware, and cry for missing lights. But didn't you tell me pc games wouldn't have those issues if you were right?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

With all due respect your posts read very condescending and haughty. You are a clear XBox cult fanboy.

 

[01011001]

Try Splinter Cell Chaos Theory on new hardware, and cry for missing lights. But didn't you tell me pc games wouldn't have those issues if you were right?

of course super old games will possibly have issues on hardware that's basically 9 generations down the line or more.

but it's still ridiculous to even think there needs to be some sort of GCN hardware inside the new consoles in order to run Xbox One or PS4 games.

especially when Microsoft has a whole dedicated team to optimise this and make sure everything runs well

 

[Mendou]

It took Microsoft coming out TWICE to confirm 12TF RDNA before anybody would believe them. Everybody kept doubting and saying he was talking GCN, blah blah.

Sony hasn't said a single fucking word spec-wise yet and its the same story:

"Well, they can't be close. They can't be equal. They can't be 11 or 12 or 13TF."

Why? Microsoft did it so somehow Sony, because they've pressed the mute button, can't be also? Come on.

Absolutely this. It wouldn't matter in the end considering the 9tf matter always comes back full circle at the end of the week.

 

[K.N.W.]

of course super old games will possibly have issues on hardware that's basically 9 generations down the line or more.

but it's still ridiculous to even think there needs to be some sort of GCN hardware inside the new consoles in order to run Xbox One or PS4 games.

especially when Microsoft has a whole dedicated team to optimise this and make sure everything runs well

Chaos Theory has problems with cards that came one year later.... Just a generation ahead.
And I don't know if there's space for an emulator this time, machines are really close this time. 360 was a 512 MB machine with a weak ass GPU. This time we have XB1X games that had 12 GB of ram and a 6 Teraflops GPU, running on a 16 GB machine with just double the GPU. Emualtion does "transcribe" instructions on the fly, but that requires the machine to go hops and bounds around those instructions to execute them. Not to mention compatibility issue... Want more? They told all games would work, and this is almost the proof that there's no emulation... You probably know emulation is never 100% compatible. Since GCN and RDNA feature sets are 90% similiar, it would be stupid to use an emulator if it was possible to modify the hardware and include what you need.

EDIT: I discoveres we were both half right, 360 games executables get recompiled (read: patched) but the GPU is emulated.

 

[splattered]

With all that has happened in the last couple of months, I cannot understand the resistance in this thread.

What can and cannot be done in consoles is not up to you and your knowledge, within a certain spectrum. Everything has changed with the new generation.

We have a rough idea of what the BOM may be for each system via Zhuge, but not a definitive answer. We don't know what they pay for parts, only that the smart money is it is quite a bit less than us of course.

My point again is this--PS5 is probably anywhere from 11.5 to 13TF. So much evidence points to it being on par or having a negligible edge over the XSX.

Too many people have a hard time accepting the rules have changed, I see it on here every single day. There are STILL people who doubt Microsoft.

It took Microsoft coming out TWICE to confirm 12TF RDNA before anybody would believe them. Everybody kept doubting and saying he was talking GCN, blah blah.

Sony hasn't said a single fucking word spec-wise yet and its the same story:

"Well, they can't be close. They can't be equal. They can't be 11 or 12 or 13TF."

Why? Microsoft did it so somehow Sony, because they've pressed the mute button, can't be also? Come on.

Because people take stock in factual testing numbers that have leaked multiple times vs people in the media who historically favor Sony saying "they've heard they're close" or something along those lines?

I want both systems to be around 12tf but i'm not going to pretend that my hopes are fact just because I want them to be close.

We have NO idea what these "insiders" or "leakers" have really seen - if anything at all - so i'm just waiting for Sony to spill the beans like everyone else.

Jason Schreier for example said they're both at 2080 super levels I believe? People keep pointing to this but for him it was a GUESS saying he has heard positive things about the power they work with but he didn't specify who said what about which system. Here is his exact wording per my google search just now:

"I'm a player who recently switched to a high-end PC, so none of the graphic stuff makes me too excited. I don't know for sure, so don't repeat it, gossipers, but I'm pretty sure that the specs those guys are going to achieve with the PS5 and Anaconda [one of the code names used for the new Xbox - editorial note] are more powerful than GPUs like RTX 2080, things you can get on the market today. I think they're trying to play it safe for the future. I've heard many positive things about the level of power they work with," said Schreier.

Microsoft flat out said forever ago that the XsX was twice as powerful as the X1X which would put it at 12tf. Not exactly hard for him to guess comparable power levels considering what Microsoft came out and said a year ago. The fact that he is lumping PS5 in there with that guess could simply stem from the fact that he historically favors Sony and wants them to be close himself.

Have we even seen any straight up neutral journalists claim 12-13tf power metrics for the PS5 or have they mostly been Sony fans?

So lets go back and say that he was basing his "guess" on information he heard through the grapevine but that was actually in relation to dev kits because he did state "The power they are working with" = DEV KITS. What if Sony really does have a 12tf system to create both traditional and high fidelity next gen VR games but the power is in a big huge expensive hot and noisy dev kit and they've decided that form factor isn't acceptable for home market? They do generally try and come up with "elegant" smaller boxes for their consoles so what if the retail units are scaled back to 9-10tf to run cool, silent, and be more visually appealing in a home entertainment center? "But what about their magic cooling system that is $2 more expensive per machine!?" … well I don't know? What if they just spent $2 more per box to help ensure that a 9tf system stays as cool and silent as possible in a small form factor? WE DON'T KNOW!

That being said though I would bet willing to be that if Sony does have a 9.2tf system with any headroom at all they are working on upclocking things and testing rigorously before they come out and announce specs to the world.

I'm going to buy the PS5 regardless if it's 9tf or 13tf so in the end it doesn't really matter because Sony has great talent that can do amazing things with the hardware they're given.

 

[xool]

Did anything like Lockhart ever turn up in the github leaks ? ?

as I understand it the answer to that is no ...

 

[ethomaz]

But why build a chip that's never going into production ? .. just use a Zen + 5700XT/VegaVII approximation PC with Phison multi-channel PCiEx4 SSD controller

Maybe the first chip was the planned 2019 release and when changed the plans for 2020 they have to build a new better chip.

 

[DeepEnigma]

With all that has happened in the last couple of months, I cannot understand the resistance in this thread.

What can and cannot be done in consoles is not up to you and your knowledge, within a certain spectrum. Everything has changed with the new generation.

We have a rough idea of what the BOM may be for each system via Zhuge, but not a definitive answer. We don't know what they pay for parts, only that the smart money is it is quite a bit less than us of course.

My point again is this--PS5 is probably anywhere from 11.5 to 13TF. So much evidence points to it being on par or having a negligible edge over the XSX.

Too many people have a hard time accepting the rules have changed, I see it on here every single day. There are STILL people who doubt Microsoft.

It took Microsoft coming out TWICE to confirm 12TF RDNA before anybody would believe them. Everybody kept doubting and saying he was talking GCN, blah blah.

Sony hasn't said a single fucking word spec-wise yet and its the same story:

"Well, they can't be close. They can't be equal. They can't be 11 or 12 or 13TF."

Why? Microsoft did it so somehow Sony, because they've pressed the mute button, can't be also? Come on.

Yep.

There’s still people who “doubt” hardware ray tracing as well in their FUD crusades.

 

[Gudji]

Did anything like Lockhart ever turn up in the github leaks ? ?

as I understand it the answer to that is no ...

Pretty sure lockhart was not in the github leak. Because it's old info and also because they changed plans multiple times by now.

Matt on era said it was a thing, then it wasn't a thing anymore, then a thing again, etc. It seems the sales of XBO SAD made them go forward with the project but some devs complained about it so maybe it's not 4 TF anymore. We'll see in a couple of months.

 

[johnjohn]

I think we will get at least a 12TF GPU and most likely at least a 12.88TF GPU so sony can say that the PS5 is a true generational leap.

There is no reason why Sony can't launch with a thirteen or even fourteen TF GPU.

Get real, it won't be more than 12tf.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The Xbox specs are out there some what, we have a measurement stick to use there. To say otherwise for them would be even more stupid. So they can’t really say such things.

Lol, they could have before they were announced and they could still after if they really wanted to. People spent tons of time trying to prove PS4 was only a symbolic victory, that things in the end were not as they seemed, that PS4 lacked balance, that ESRAM brought the bandwidth to 200+ GB/s thus beating PS4, that the compute power advantage was meaningless, inventor of DX effect, etc...

 

[ethomaz]

Nothing suggests that PS5 is on RDNA2 or 7N+. Absolutely nothing.

It can not be RDNA 2 but the chan to not being 7N+ are pretty small.
New chips to be produced for late 2020 will be all 7N+.

A console chip always will try to use the best process to decrease costs.

 

[bitbydeath]

6 months ago 12TF talk was only for crazies.. Sensible money was on 9-10TF. Source: this thread

Nah, I proved why both would be around 12TF last year. Sensible money was always around 12 due to Ray-Tracing and the requirements of which AMD announced.

Some others like R R600 just prefer fantasies over facts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Pretty sure lockhart was not in the github leak. Because it's old info and also because they changed plans multiple times by now.

Matt on era said it was a thing, then it wasn't a thing anymore, then a thing again, etc. It seems the sales of XBO SAD made them go forward with the project but some devs complained about it so maybe it's not 4 TF anymore. We'll see in a couple of months.

I would hope that the SAD was not an indication. They had to fire sale that thing and practically give it away.

That would be some misguided foresight.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

emotional like. Lmao

More like "moral support like"

 

[MrJekyll16]

I agree with you man, I mean, the 1st time WE THOUGHT WE WOULD BE GETTING NEXT-GEN CONSOLES WITH DOUBLE DIGITS NUMBERS is when Kleegamefan said it back in July when no one knew this would happen, we were all basing our predictions on AMD's latest hot new GFX cards like the RX 5700 & RX 5700 XT (that released in July 2019) with RDNA TFs calculation in mind, we were all saying that both consoles will be in the 8 to 9 TFs and that it is impossible to go past that due to thermals and all that, then we asked him if they were RDNA numbers and if they are more powerful than AMD's RX 5700 XT's 9.75 TFs.........then he said that his developer friend said "YES" and Klee confirmed that both consoles are going to be more powerful and more feature-packed and advanced than any of AMD's releases in 2019.

I remember #TeamThermals and #TeamRealistic blocked Klee for saying that they are more powerful than those cards.

This was later CONFIRMED by Digital Foundry in December of 2019, so 5 months after what Kleegamefan said, and look now with the XSX, it is RDNA 2 with HW RT & VRS and it is 12 TFs......he was right from the very beginning before Jason Schreier, before Tom Warren, before Matt, before Windows Central, before basically anyone.

And yet we still get people who are harassing him all over the internet from ResetEra to here to Twitter, most of them are angry Xbox fanboys triggered because he said the PS5 is a bit more powerful than XSX.

He was right with the XSX, and now he'll be right with the PlayStation 5........and oh man I can't wait for the meltdowns.....i'm telling you guys, it will not look good on y'all......alright that's my comment on this matter

And what's even more funny is that Klee stated that he is a bigger xbox fan than ps fan through all these years. He just likes games and innovations that happen in gaming. He doesn't pick sides, he just plays games on multiple systems and has friends inside the gaming industry where he still interacts with. He just wanted to share what he saw and heard with us. The way people attacked him, and are still attacking him, was so uncalled for. This also counts for other insiders aswell. Normally I don't react to this drama, but I just wanted to say this.

 

[xool]

Nah, I proved why both would be around 12TF last year. Sensible money was always around 12 due to Ray-Tracing and the requirements of which AMD announced.

Some others like R R600 just prefer fantasies over facts.

iirc a lot of posters (included me) didn't expect 12TF, not because cost or die size, but thermals and power consumption.

I'm still waiting for the Scarlet power (watt) numbers - should be as high as OG PS3, maybe higher ??

 

[tflopsmatter]

14 TF would cost about $700-$800 BOM . Everything goes up in price. You have to feed this monster with power, cool it off, provide more memory and bandwidth. It all goes up in price.

It would not cost 700-800 dollars. At most it would cost 550. Why are you exaggerating?

 

[Fatal Enigma]

I think we will get at least a 12TF GPU and most likely at least a 12.88TF GPU so sony can say that the PS5 is a true generational leap.

There is no reason why Sony can't launch with a thirteen or even fourteen TF GPU.

Designing your target years out probably has nothing to do with anything. You may have just stumbled onto "magic"

 

[ethomaz]

how do you know that?
what rest mode has been shown to do with some games is reduce performance in some cases.
meaning games have more framedrops than usual.

and I bet you're not sitting there with hard data on how fluid the game should run at any given moment do you?

I just don't want to risk having more framedrops than most console games these days have anyways... it's bad enough as it is and I want to reduce possible performance issues wherever I can.
so I don't use rest mode

Bullshit.

The cases with some issues was due the own game having bug with the rest mode that were basically patched ASAP.

I challenge you to test a game with a patch after the released one with Rest Mode issues.

You don’t want to use Rest Mode configured like you use in Xbox One fine... it is your choice but you can’t try to create lame excuse with issues to try to feel better not using it.

 

[welshrat]

Its funny, because people are waving of 9.2TF Navi with RT and VRS, but I am reading posts on Resetera and Reddit during first Oberon leak (August) and people were hyped for these specs. Probably because 9.2TF Navi is a match for Radeon 7 and many would have taken Vega 56 back last year (GPU that gets dominated by 7.9TF 5700, I mean even Vega 64 gets spanked).

In any case, the disappointment is solely duo to XSX 12TF. If Xbox had 8-9TF, they wouldnt care one bit.

Yep. Personally still really happy with 9.2 if that's what it turns out to be.

I suspect anyone who is moaning has no idea how good that is. Honestly, maybe it's because I am of an age but I just cannot get my head around this fanboyism. Buy 1 or buy both. No one cares that switch is low tf yet the games are awesome.

The only reason I won't get xbox is due to my gaming on PC thus no need and no time.

 

[R600]

Did anything like Lockhart ever turn up in the github leaks ? ?

as I understand it the answer to that is no ...

Yea, it has, Sparkman APU (in fact, Sparkman/Arden even have AKD employee names assigned for each GPU block thats gonna go through test)

 

[tflopsmatter]

Get real, it won't be more than 12tf.

There is no reason it can't be up to 14 or 15TF.

 

[Lone Wolf]

It would not cost 700-800 dollars. At most it would cost 550. Why are you exaggerating?

$550 retail or BOM for 14TF? Either way you are wrong.

 

[johnjohn]

There is no reason it can't be up to 14 or 15TF.

for $799 lmfao. Good luck with that.

 

[R600]

Nah, I proved why both would be around 12TF last year. Sensible money was always around 12 due to Ray-Tracing and the requirements of which AMD announced.

Some others like R R600 just prefer fantasies over facts.

Well, truth be told, you really cant have console form factor with regular TDP (150-190W) without making tiny PC case and pushing 250W+ (like XSX will).

If Sony makes 500-600$ console in OC case and 400W then surely anything is possible.

But when it was debated, everyone assumed 200W and form factor limit. MS went above it, if Sony aimed at traditional form factor and TDP, there will be no 13TF.

 

[ethomaz]

Well, truth be told, you really cant have console form factor with regular TDP (150-190W) without making tiny PC case and pushing 250W+ (like XSX will).

If Sony makes 500-600$ console in OC case and 400W then surely anything is possible.

But when it was debated, everyone assumed 200W and form factor limit. MS went above it, if Sony aimed at traditional form factor and TDP, there will be no 13TF.

There are others consoles over 220W in the past... it was never a limit.

PS3 is 380W max.

PS. Fixed after check.

 

[bitbydeath]

Well, truth be told, you really cant have console form factor with regular TDP (150-190W) without making tiny PC case and pushing 250W+ (like XSX will).

If Sony makes 500-600$ console in OC case and 400W then surely anything is possible.

But when it was debated, everyone assumed 200W and form factor limit. MS went above it, if Sony aimed at traditional form factor and TDP, there will be no 13TF.

The devkit we’ve seen is close to twice the size of the XSX but devkits are typically larger by default.

EDIT: Still as I’ve said in the past the differences will be negligible as they BOTH will be built around the 5800 which is required for Ray-Tracing.