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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Bo_Hazem

Banned
I miss Bo, he used to lighten up this place.

But after his wife caught him drooling over Abby from Tlou2, he's not allowed to come and play here anymore.

Hes been forced to clean those camels he owns, all 5000 of them.

Come BACK BO.:messenger_loudly_crying:

Pogcamel! (For Americans and Canadians: Pogba is a French player in Manchester United FC, who's known for wacky haircuts :messenger_winking_tongue: )

Camel-1.jpg
 
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I wouldn't be so condescending when talking about software development. I've got a CS degree and I'm a Machine Learning Engineer for more than 5 years. Pretty sure I know enough to contribute in such a discussion.

Nothing of what you have said shows remotely why the Slipspace Engine and Halo Infinite are build for the Xbox One. Knowing the money Microsoft put behind this game I'm sure they have two teams working on two versions of the game, both using Slipspace engine and both getting the best out of the prospective consoles.
Nice to meet you I am Artificial Intelligence Engineer.

So if you are engineer what are you talking about this? when you are designing a software are you able to dev a software which use in its 100% all your platforms available
even when in still designed in the year of your presentation, example make a software which should run in a FX-6300 in a decent performance while also your code
should use in the 100% the capabilities and features of the last ryzen CPU like use the set of instructions AVX, all of this while you already have a date to deliver and
your budget was assigned years before?

The answer is you cannot do it, because we just cannot spend and "infinite" amount time and money just reach that dream, so we have to make concessions, even
if you position you don't touch the code in so low level you should know that the people who is working with you and work in that part is who is in charge of make that decisions.

My logic is this one since the moment when start the design of that engine was years back before 2018, as we know when Phil Spencer
take the head of Xbox (2014), one of his first instructions was to created a machine which take again the crown of most powerful console
Xbox one X and was release until 2017, during this period of time Halo 5 was released (2015) and probably close to the 2015 the new engine
start is dev lest say 2014 during all this time until 2017 XSX was probably only in the mind of a couple of engineers of Xbox, also remember
they also need AMD actually have a GPU RDNA working man this was very after that year (2017) you 343 was already working in the game even before
AMD finished the RDNA or have it the Ryzen which happens until 2017.

You cannot go with your team and say people we change the way in how the are going to run some workflow because AMD came with the new ryzen CPU
so we need to create also a way of fully used, so please people of slipspace engine create a new API or libraries specialized for use the new set of instructions
and the came after the next year or two people AMD has the RDNA 2 please modified the engine for use RT to the max potential of the new GPU which still in
discussion for other team inside XBOX about the correct configuration of the SoC.

Is a miracle the games like Halo Infinite use some features of the new gen while still running in very old and obsolete hardware, think will use 100% in both sides
is dreaming with the open eyes.

Have two teams is a way to improve this but is not magically resolve the problem still exists and is not like both teams means one can change completely the mechanics
for use the new CPU and SSD at least they shouldn't, the team in charge of XSX and XSS has more limited time to designed,update or even create parts of the engine,
have two team means each team focus in each gen but not they will be able to do everything they want.
 
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IkarugaDE

Member
Fair enough. Care to share what the external leak was?
Sure. Don't know the exact page anymore, but Apple planned to release three iPhone-models in 2016 (iPhone 7, 7 Plus and 7 Pro). The pro-model had a 5.5inch screen, dual-camera and a smart-connector while the 7 (4.7inch) and 7 plus (5.5inch) only had one camera and no smart-connector. The 7 pro was cancelled and the 7 plus got the dual-cam, the smart-connector was removed completely and never used for iPhones.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
He is saying that Oodle Texture preparation was not used in the demo thus the efficiency multiplier effect was reduced: I doubt it was loading fully uncompressed data from the SSD (I am quite positive Kraken was used to compress the data set), but without Oodle Texture as a pre-processing step or something similar the textures size was a lot bigger than it could have been (hence the SSD I/O was not used to its full potential).
That's a really interesting point, but is there any info that implies or confirms the textures were even BC1-7(s3tc/Dxt/3dc) compressed in the demo for RDO to be even relevant?
Given the micro-poly size/count per pixel in the UE5 demo and the GI involved I'm not 100% sure the demo can handle the type of discontinuity errors of block compression. I wouldn't be surprised if it requires uncompressed textures or more graceful lossy compression than block compression - only because a 3dc block error in the GI could presumably send light in a wrong direction or pop between correct and wrong, and then break coherency of the GI fx.
 

T-Cake

Member
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xacto

Member

Thanks for posting this.

This footage'd better be work in progress, it looks pretty bad. Worse than Odyssey, actually. And the fights are horrendous... what's with that kick that sends enemies flying through the air?!

It all really tempered my expectations for this game.
 

Darius87

Member
I wouldn't be so condescending when talking about software development. I've got a CS degree and I'm a Machine Learning Engineer for more than 5 years. Pretty sure I know enough to contribute in such a discussion.

Nothing of what you have said shows remotely why the Slipspace Engine and Halo Infinite are build for the Xbox One. Knowing the money Microsoft put behind this game I'm sure they have two teams working on two versions of the game, both using Slipspace engine and both getting the best out of the prospective consoles.
tenor.gif

seriously where these people coming from? does greenberg factory exist? :messenger_grinning_smiling: for all i've seen on this forum those who proclaim themselfs developer/engineer have failed miserably.
 

geordiemp

Member
That's a really interesting point, but is there any info that implies or confirms the textures were even BC1-7(s3tc/Dxt/3dc) compressed in the demo for RDO to be even relevant?
Given the micro-poly size/count per pixel in the UE5 demo and the GI involved I'm not 100% sure the demo can handle the type of discontinuity errors of block compression. I wouldn't be surprised if it requires uncompressed textures or more graceful lossy compression than block compression - only because a 3dc block error in the GI could presumably send light in a wrong direction or pop between correct and wrong, and then break coherency of the GI fx.

BCn are only 4 x 4 blocks of pixels, BCn is the native format that GPUs read anyway.

So BCn is already small and the right format for GPU caches to read.

RDO is like fancy Jpeg that makes the BCn formats more compressable with Kraken and Zlib. So yes makes a huge difference.

So put simply Oodle (or BCPack with MS) lossy reduces the size of the image before making kraken or zlib (MS) compressed BCn 4 x 4 data

Note the RDO on the original image is lossy and can be chosen by how much (Lamda) , BCn is not lossy, Kraken is not lossy, Zlib is not lossy.
 
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PaintTinJr

Member
BCn are only 4 x 4 pixels, BCn is the native format that GPUs read anyway.

So BCn is already small 4x4 pixels and the right format for GPU caches to read.

RDO is like fancy Jpeg that makes the BCn formats more compressable with Kraken and Zlib. So yes makes a huge difference.

So put simply Oodle (or BCPack) lossy reduces the size of the image before making compressed BCn 4 x 4 data
No, I'm well aware of how block compression works(all the way back to its origins of S3 texture compression) and why it is used a lot for engines upto UE4 and earlier. But the point I am making is about questioning if the next gen lighting model with micro-polys is okay with block compression accuracy.

In many ways, what's the point in saying megascans (cinema assets) if you are degrading them with measurable - yet hard to perceive - noise in the form of discontinuity errors from block compression? I'm leaning far more towards them not even using (lossy) block compression for the textures and just using zlib/kraken(eventually oodle lossless) for UE5, but if it says they use lossy compression in a video or tweet that would certainly clear things up - to confirm if RDO would benefit UE5 demo.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
Sure. Don't know the exact page anymore, but Apple planned to release three iPhone-models in 2016 (iPhone 7, 7 Plus and 7 Pro). The pro-model had a 5.5inch screen, dual-camera and a smart-connector while the 7 (4.7inch) and 7 plus (5.5inch) only had one camera and no smart-connector. The 7 pro was cancelled and the 7 plus got the dual-cam, the smart-connector was removed completely and never used for iPhones.
That rumor came out long before the iPhone 7 was released and it was started by Kuo, he later walked it back months before the iPhone 7 launched and said there would be only 2 models, standard and plus model and no pro model. The rumor refused to die and there were mock ups of the supposed pro model all over the internet months before the launch event even though Kuo walked it back in May.
 
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PaintTinJr

Member
geordiemp geordiemp

The other thing that just occurred to me is that in async compute I don't believe they would get the free benefit of BCn samplers -hardware accelerated decompression of texture sample reading - and would have to either schedule the reads to the fixed path pipeline at the cost of stalling the async compute workload, or implement BCn sampling decompression in the async software algorithms, which would probably be a massive waste of data manipulation - compared to just using an RGB triplet.

if they are using BCn inside the async compute algorithms for nanite/lumen then that'll be even more interesting (IMO).
 

DrDamn

Member
except maybe AMD, you know they have called xbsex a pinnacle of innovation



Sebastien Nussbaum, Corporate Vice President & Senior Fellow, Semi-Custom Products and Technologies at AMD

It's a fine quote to support an argument that AMD think MS have done some good design work with them on XSX. You keep reading beacon and saying pinnacle though, and they are different things in that sort of context. Beacon is something which shows people a way (a good example of how to do something), a pinnacle is the very best, the highest point.
 

GermanZepp

Member
It's a fine quote to support an argument that AMD think MS have done some good design work with them on XSX. You keep reading beacon and saying pinnacle though, and they are different things in that sort of context. Beacon is something which shows people a way (a good example of how to do something), a pinnacle is the very best, the highest point.
I read bacon and pineapple . I was confused
 

Rudius

Member
About VR, I've been reading reviews complaining about how Marvel's Iron Man VR is being limited by PSVR/PS4 aging tech. I'm really hoping we get enhanced versions of current PSVR games using PS5 horsepower/IO before we get PSVR2. Even with its lower resolution, I'm sure we could see great benefits with current version.
Biggest problems in the demo I played that persists in final game are the minute long loadings and some texture pop in (a lesser problem). Both should be solved immediately when playing it on the PS5, even prior to a patch.

The resolution is fine though, nothing like some blurry games we have (Driveclub, No Man's Sky), but an improvement in that department is always noticeable in VR. I hope this game uses dynamic resolution, for a free boost on PS5.
 
There is a word for someone who in the face of evidence still repeats the same bald faced lie.

You wrote "My sources verified to me on the phone that everything this guy mentions is 100% true" "PS5=9TFLOPS and XSX 10TFLOPS"
H5SgBsz.png


In what world is that accurate? PS5 reveal date was wrong, release date is unverified, price is unkown but has been speculated to be $499, launch games are unknown but MLB is a yearly franchise, GT7 rumored for a long time and some have speculated a late 2020 or early 2021 release Demon Souls remake has been rumored for a long time various thread on this forum about it, Godfall is a known launch titlee, Legendz was not shown or teased, Horizon Zero dawn was 2 was known and expected for a while, no Spidernan 2 and PS5 slogan is Play Has No Limits. What exactly is accurate when majority of the above have been proven false and those that seem plausible were speculations and rumors that have been going around for a while.

You said there will be 2 PS5 SKU revealed and one would be the Pro and more powerful than the other and that is false. Then the story changed to this one released is the pro and you don't believe a pro will be released 2 - 3yrs after. Xbox lockhart had been rumored since GPU codenames were found in driver updates.
LLRlBn5.png


Now you say it was a mistranslation. For the record i think we will see another mid gen refresh so you don't get to claim that is what you meant.

Xbox Series X and PS5 Pro =800$
fH2JiRF.png


You are full of it. Last time i called you out then you started changing your story.

You




Less than 10TFLOPS in AMD numbers you said


Someone said

And you said




This is enough evidence that you claimed next gen consoles will not be more than 1080 performance and less than 10TFLOPS

Story changes from 1080 to between 1080 and 1080Ti



Oh but you are redeemed because PS5 is really only just 9TF

Lmao
Damn. Roasted.

Some people keep saying 'OH BUT OSIRISBLACK IS FULL OF SHIT', well, there it is, a 'verified industry professional' who is actually full of it.
 
Go robots!

...the actual assembly is done entirely by articulated robots, supplied by Mitsubishi Electric. The 31.4-meter line, completed in 2018, has the ability to churn out a new console every 30 seconds.

One of the plant's crowning achievements is the use of robots to attach wires, tape and other flexible parts to the consoles. Twenty-six out of 32 robots at the Kisarazu plant are dedicated to the task, deftly handling materials most robots would find too finicky.

For example, attaching the flexible flat cable -- a tape-like electrical cord -- requires one robot arm to hold up the cable and another to twist it. The cable then needs to be attached in a specific direction using just the right pressure, which may seem simple for a human but is an extremely complex maneuver for robot.

"There's probably no other site that can manipulate robots in this manner," said an engineer. Every process -- all the way to final packaging -- is automated. The blend of robotic and human labor is painstakingly optimized with a priority on return on investment.


 

Jtibh

Banned
I miss Bo, he used to lighten up this place.

But after his wife caught him drooling over Abby from Tlou2, he's not allowed to come and play here anymore.

Hes been forced to clean those camels he owns, all 5000 of them.

Come BACK BO.:messenger_loudly_crying:
I am craving for some BO too.
My gold run out. Need more gold.

His wife caught him cuz of abby hahaha.
No. BO wants to be abby.
Maybe then he will be man enough to live up to his wifes standards
 

Vroadstar

Member
There is a word for someone who in the face of evidence still repeats the same bald faced lie.

You wrote "My sources verified to me on the phone that everything this guy mentions is 100% true" "PS5=9TFLOPS and XSX 10TFLOPS"
H5SgBsz.png


In what world is that accurate? PS5 reveal date was wrong, release date is unverified, price is unkown but has been speculated to be $499, launch games are unknown but MLB is a yearly franchise, GT7 rumored for a long time and some have speculated a late 2020 or early 2021 release Demon Souls remake has been rumored for a long time various thread on this forum about it, Godfall is a known launch titlee, Legendz was not shown or teased, Horizon Zero dawn was 2 was known and expected for a while, no Spidernan 2 and PS5 slogan is Play Has No Limits. What exactly is accurate when majority of the above have been proven false and those that seem plausible were speculations and rumors that have been going around for a while.

You said there will be 2 PS5 SKU revealed and one would be the Pro and more powerful than the other and that is false. Then the story changed to this one released is the pro and you don't believe a pro will be released 2 - 3yrs after. Xbox lockhart had been rumored since GPU codenames were found in driver updates.
LLRlBn5.png


Now you say it was a mistranslation. For the record i think we will see another mid gen refresh so you don't get to claim that is what you meant.

Xbox Series X and PS5 Pro =800$
fH2JiRF.png


You are full of it. Last time i called you out then you started changing your story.

You




Less than 10TFLOPS in AMD numbers you said


Someone said

And you said




This is enough evidence that you claimed next gen consoles will not be more than 1080 performance and less than 10TFLOPS

Story changes from 1080 to between 1080 and 1080Ti



Oh but you are redeemed because PS5 is really only just 9TF

Lmao
Do you really need somebody to spell out for you how much bollocks you wrote? OK, fine, I have some time anyway.

31- 01 - 2020:
  • PS5 event in February - WRONG
  • PS5 release in October - still UNKNOWN
  • PS5 at $499, one model - price part still UNKNOWN, second part WRONG
  • Launch games are GT7, MLB The Show 21, Demon's Souls Remastered, Godfall, Legendz - as far as we can tell and all logic now suggests you got 1/5, congratulation. So mostly WRONG
  • Teasers for Horizon 2, Spider-Man sequel, 3 new IPs, FF XVI, RE - if we count Miles Morales as a sequel, 3/7 of those you mentioned are confirmed to exist. Let's say UNKNOWN so far?
  • PS5 almost on par with XSX, XSX more espensive, XSS worse than PS5 - we don't know the prices, but the rest is CORRECT
  • PS5 slogan is "It's time to play" - WRONG, it's actually "Play has no limits"

25 - 02 -2020:
  • Base consoles and "mid-gen refreshes" will both be "introduced" at launch for both PS5 and Xbox - First of all, by pure definition a launch console won't be a "mid-gen" refresh, so that makes no sense to begin with. Or why "introducing" a mid-gen console at launch would "cover the whole 7 years cycle" any better than not doing it? However, we don't know yet if Lockhart will really release in 2020, but assuming that is true and being generous on the terminology let's say that it's CORRECT for Microsoft. Still WRONG for Sony. Also, here we have your first unexplained CONTRADICTION (a month earlier you said there's just one PS5)
  • One PS5 is 9TF, the other one is to "compete with SXS" - No matter what you are going to call the one real PS5 we are getting, since you are measuring stuff in TFLOPS this is WRONG (PS5 is not 9TF, but neither it's close to XSX's 12).
  • Top 2 consoles will be around $600 - I and any industry analyst I read seriously doubt that, but to be fair so far it's still UNKNOWN
  • No date for PS5 release - Let's assume you meant "base" PS5 comes out in October, so no contradiction there. But since there is no PS5 Pro (and you yourself will go on to say that what we get now IS the PS5 Pro), there is either your CONTRADICTION or where you are WRONG
  • XSX = PS5 Pro > PS5 > Lockhart - there is no PS5 and PS5 Pro, so by virtue of that automatically WRONG
  • XSX and PS5 "Pro" could cost up to $800 - technically still UNKNOWN, even though by any possible solid data and estimate we now have this sounds like sheer lunacy. Also, you JUST SAID, THAT VERY DAY, YOU THINK THEY WOULD COST $600. That's $200 dollars, how the hell can you be told one figure and then assume another one so different. So here is another CONTRADICTION.
  • PS5 Pro might come out only in 2022 - I don't know, it might? But you will say that this PS5 we are now getting is the Pro? So WRONG?

18 - 03 -2020:
  • Now the actual PS5 is what you called the PS5 Pro, there is still also an unannounced base PS5, and they are both coming out in 2020 - congratulations, you managed both to be almost certainly WRONG (99% by now now we know there is not another, less powerful PS5) and to CONTRADICT your earlier statement (PS5 Pro is years in the making) in one single take.


So to conclude, in regards to PS5 in particular you were not just wrong: you managed to be so wrong that you gave THREE completely different stories and you STILL pigeon-holed (no intentional references :messenger_mr_smith_who_are_you_going_to_call:) the only possible route that would prove 100% wrong along every SINGLE step of the way. First that there is one PS5 model; then that there are two PS5 models, but the one that actually turned out to exist would release in 2022; then that there will be in fact two PS5 models at launch, but one will be different in term of hardware and performance, not just a disk-less version. Which are ALL 100% WRONG.

I'm gonna be very blunt: based on this track record, I'd rather hear what you have to say and then bet on the exact opposite. Because you were not just wrong, you were statistics-wise abnormally wrong.
Hilarious. Now I'm questioning if you're actually in VFX. No artist that participates in matte painting, FX or compositing for film or television would ever say that they're in the games industry.

Using the same hardware? What? An architect or drafter in construction who uses AutoCAD uses same hardware as well.

Ok, you're definitely full of shit.

He's always been a hack, he was a hack back in Era (which he was banned) and he was a hack here. The only thing right about him is his huge ego (I'm sure most of you noticed this "100% accurate" even his name is about his huge ego)
 
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Jtibh

Banned
He's always been a hack, he was a hack back in Era (which he was banned) and he was a hack here. The only thing right about him is his huge ego (I'm sure most of you noticed this "100% accurate" even his name is about his huge ego)
I am loving this.

Once again it was me pointing it all out and being straight up" you are full of shit" to him.

He is a big big shit disturber who looks down on us console owners like we are idiots and he loves to belittle us all the time.
 

Vroadstar

Member
I am loving this.

Once again it was me pointing it all out and being straight up" you are full of shit" to him.

He is a big big shit disturber who looks down on us console owners like we are idiots and he loves to belittle us all the time.

Couldn't agree more. I remember him back when God of War was released and he entered the OT and nitpick how the snow is being rendered. Saying the snowflakes are not wet enough looking and it doesn't shine enough to look like snow. I noticed here he will always comes in a thread with his so-called "expert" opinion, guys full of it.
 
He's always been a hack, he was a hack back in Era (which he was banned) and he was a hack here. The only thing right about him is his huge ego (I'm sure most of you noticed this "100% accurate" even his name is about his huge ego)

I'm wondering if he's actually a veteran. I really hate it when people pretend to be one. Plus it's illegal here and it's called stolen valor.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Do you really need somebody to spell out for you how much bollocks you wrote? OK, fine, I have some time anyway.

31- 01 - 2020:
  • PS5 event in February - WRONG
  • PS5 release in October - still UNKNOWN
  • PS5 at $499, one model - price part still UNKNOWN, second part WRONG
  • Launch games are GT7, MLB The Show 21, Demon's Souls Remastered, Godfall, Legendz - as far as we can tell and all logic now suggests you got 1/5, congratulation. So mostly WRONG
  • Teasers for Horizon 2, Spider-Man sequel, 3 new IPs, FF XVI, RE - if we count Miles Morales as a sequel, 3/7 of those you mentioned are confirmed to exist. Let's say UNKNOWN so far?
  • PS5 almost on par with XSX, XSX more espensive, XSS worse than PS5 - we don't know the prices, but the rest is CORRECT
  • PS5 slogan is "It's time to play" - WRONG, it's actually "Play has no limits"

25 - 02 -2020:
  • Base consoles and "mid-gen refreshes" will both be "introduced" at launch for both PS5 and Xbox - First of all, by pure definition a launch console won't be a "mid-gen" refresh, so that makes no sense to begin with. Or why "introducing" a mid-gen console at launch would "cover the whole 7 years cycle" any better than not doing it? However, we don't know yet if Lockhart will really release in 2020, but assuming that is true and being generous on the terminology let's say that it's CORRECT for Microsoft. Still WRONG for Sony. Also, here we have your first unexplained CONTRADICTION (a month earlier you said there's just one PS5)
  • One PS5 is 9TF, the other one is to "compete with SXS" - No matter what you are going to call the one real PS5 we are getting, since you are measuring stuff in TFLOPS this is WRONG (PS5 is not 9TF, but neither it's close to XSX's 12).
  • Top 2 consoles will be around $600 - I and any industry analyst I read seriously doubt that, but to be fair so far it's still UNKNOWN
  • No date for PS5 release - Let's assume you meant "base" PS5 comes out in October, so no contradiction there. But since there is no PS5 Pro (and you yourself will go on to say that what we get now IS the PS5 Pro), there is either your CONTRADICTION or where you are WRONG
  • XSX = PS5 Pro > PS5 > Lockhart - there is no PS5 and PS5 Pro, so by virtue of that automatically WRONG
  • XSX and PS5 "Pro" could cost up to $800 - technically still UNKNOWN, even though by any possible solid data and estimate we now have this sounds like sheer lunacy. Also, you JUST SAID, THAT VERY DAY, YOU THINK THEY WOULD COST $600. That's $200 dollars, how the hell can you be told one figure and then assume another one so different. So here is another CONTRADICTION.
  • PS5 Pro might come out only in 2022 - I don't know, it might? But you will say that this PS5 we are now getting is the Pro? So WRONG?

18 - 03 -2020:
  • Now the actual PS5 is what you called the PS5 Pro, there is still also an unannounced base PS5, and they are both coming out in 2020 - congratulations, you managed both to be almost certainly WRONG (99% by now now we know there is not another, less powerful PS5) and to CONTRADICT your earlier statement (PS5 Pro is years in the making) in one single take.


So to conclude, in regards to PS5 in particular you were not just wrong: you managed to be so wrong that you gave THREE completely different stories and you STILL pigeon-holed (no intentional references :messenger_mr_smith_who_are_you_going_to_call:) the only possible route that would prove 100% wrong along every SINGLE step of the way. First that there is one PS5 model; then that there are two PS5 models, but the one that actually turned out to exist would release in 2022; then that there will be in fact two PS5 models at launch, but one will be different in term of hardware and performance, not just a disk-less version. Which are ALL 100% WRONG.

I'm gonna be very blunt: based on this track record, I'd rather hear what you have to say and then bet on the exact opposite. Because you were not just wrong, you were statistics-wise abnormally wrong.

tenor.gif



Also let's not forget HZD on PC looking better H2FW on PS5...
 

B_Boss

Member
PCs have the latest technology and can do things that the consoles can't. It's not me being a PC elitist. It's more of me being a tech fanboy. And that should be OK. That's how we move forward.

Is this absolutely true beyond reasonable doubt and currently as I type this very response given the facts (7/5/2020)?

I’m pretty sure unique “bottleneck-eliminating” SSD+I/O engineering hardware (as an example) will drive PC’s forward as well. No “tech fanboy”should or could not deny this unless I’m in error 🍻.
 
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