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yewles1
Member
Laura Miele from EA mentioned ML in a wired article.
Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5
Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.
geordiemp
Member
Don't you just love when people start false rumors by saying "some people are saying"? It is not me who is saying it, some people are saying it.
Gavin Stevens you were fundamentally wrong with your whole explanation of what SFS was. I was glad to see James corrected you on that. Not only that you stated that "Traditional systems yes the PS5 work this way"
The only part you got partially right was your explanation of virtual texturing and the use of pages and mips. What you also got wrong is your insinuation that traditionally developers just load higher resolution textures without taking into account what is actually visible, distance and other parameters. Developers have been speculatively loading textures forever long before GPUs started to have hardware to natively assist in doing it more efficiently.
Frostbite BF3 on PS3
You were promptly corrected with actual proof that even PS4 had native hardware support for virtual texturing. The question you should have asked yourself is if PS4 had native support for it, why wouldn't PS5? Why would PS5 forgo years of knowledge in efficient memory and bandwidth conservation? Why wouldn't Sony adopt newer development in this space like Nvidia, AMD and everyone else?
Far Cry 4 PS4
Good post, Gavin has not said his background, I guessed it was not the tech side - Not everyone is a engine programmer and mathmatician including me lol. We get by.
The interesting bits is what new in HARDWARE for next gen. Goosen clearly said below quote which is a method to blend in a late arriving streamed texture.
Cerny said they have Coherency engine and Cache scrubbers which again is used in DMA and streaming for efficiency. Matt cleverly teased this in a tweet without breaking NDA (but on the edge lol). Maybe XSX has their own solution or just letting some stuff arrive late and blend it in ?.
Both techniques apply to streaming next gen ontop of PRT+ and do different things and help where needed. Which is better remains to be seen.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
FYI, i saw someone get banned for saying the f word a few months ago. not sure if era is an exception but from what i recall, they dont tolerate that kind of homophobic insults here."Faggotera"
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
S
Self High Five
Gavin Stevens
You might be able to get the deleted tweet using the web archive below. it's what self high five used to find me the tweets Tom Warren wrote about PS5 being 9 tflops. i dont know how to use this to be honest.
Gavin Stevens
You might be able to get the deleted tweet using the web archive below. it's what self high five used to find me the tweets Tom Warren wrote about PS5 being 9 tflops. i dont know how to use this to be honest. 
MasterCornholio
Member
S Self High Five
Is this similar to what the mods did?
I'm no expert with these things but I assume using google cache allows you to pull up previous states if web pages. So if someone deleted something you could always look at a saved state to get it back.
That's what I'm assuming it does.
Dolomite
Member
Console wars are getting sad. Also he's a 3rd party dev not a Sony engineer. The person he was referring (Sony graphics engineer) also confirmed RDNA 1.5
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SleepDoctor
Banned
Im genuinely curious as to how many of those threats came from some of our very own in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised tbh.
Imagine the sony guy's inbox as well. Quite pathetic times indeed.
Dolomite
Member
I see so many people on twitter link gaf and era threads to comments, I feel like it's only a matter of time before they expose themselves
3liteDragon
Member
We really need that facepalm reaction, he's talking about how you would at least need 8 TFLOPs of GPU compute power on the GCN architecture to run games at native 4K.no imagination needed.
Cerny DID say this in his interview in AV watch Japan.
Here's a link to the interview, what you are looking for is the last paragraph:
【西田宗千佳のRandomTracking】 マーク・サーニーが明かす「PS4 Pro」の秘密。「解像感の高い4K」のための工夫
PlayStation 4 Pro(PS4 Pro)は、「4K世代」に向け、PS4をアップデートしたハードウエアである。9月の発表以来、ハードウェアスペックは語られてきたが、デモを見たわけではないユーザーの立場から見ると、「実際にどう違うのか」分かりづらい部分があったと思う。エンターテインメントとしての「ゲームのビジュアル」がどこまで進化するのか、半信半疑な部分もあろうかと思う。av.watch.impress.co.jp
let me translate for you:
<< "If you're rendering natively in 4K, that's a personal estimate, but you'll need at least 8TFLOPS,
It's not a technology that can be used at a reasonable price this year", Cerny said. >>
SleepDoctor
Banned
I see so many people on twitter link gaf and era threads to comments, I feel like it's only a matter of time before they expose themselves
Exactly my point. I mean i don't use Twitter for anything besides check notifications. But these guys dedicate themselves so much to following all these people they "hate" so much its laughable.
I don't think i even follow the official xbox or Playstation accounts, let alone any of the corporate mouthpieces from either company. And much less any random insider or youtuber lol.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
This comes from an insecurity where one console might be really missing something the other has. This goes both ways btw. The same was the case with the SSD. Eventually the best outcome is that there is barely a difference between both consoles, but fans of one system want to be better. At the same time if they would be have a worse system this hurts them a lot so they go all out in defense.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
you know what? im starting to believe that Series X will be launching soon, like in august or september.
SleepDoctor
Banned
First3-4 tweet under any officialXbox post are people shitting on Xbox or just spamming screenshots from Ghost of Tsushima. It's wired, I think they have notification alarms for Xbox post
Like most "public figure" accounts, they most likely have notifications off. That shows you how stupidly childish they are.
Its like all the childish racist morons from the 360 jumped to Ps4 this gen.
Ptarmiganx2
Member
They could face a class-action for misleading consumers.
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geordiemp
Member
MS and Sony could both launch now if they wanted, but the unit numbers would be too low and its a "paper" launch. They going to need a few million at least.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
MS isnt even bothering to launch their next gen console with next gen games. do you really think they care?
i do think they are far ahead of sony based on how quickly they showed off the console. i think it's entirely possible they will have 2 million ready to ship by september. they could launch in u.s and uk and get a head start.
geordiemp
Member
Not really, you could just be comparing the memory size of a 3 second prefetch on a streaming pool of X and preloading the level needed 2.5x on Xb1. Its vague on purpose, and like power cloud most see through it easily.
MS will at some point demonstrate their loading and streaming better than Their last efforts (state decay 2 and the pause / restart feature).
Zathalus
Member
So both Sony and AMD have confirmed the PS5 has RDNA 2, this has been announced by the Sony Lead Architect and AMD CEO respectively. Both companies have references to RDNA 2 in marketing material. In addition, we have confirmation of mesh shaders and VRS from Activision. RT hardware support is confirmed by various sources as well. EA has also confirmed the presence of ML on the GPU. The GPU also obviously has RDNA2 performance per watt and clock speeds (no way RDNA 1 is reaching 2233MHz in a console form-factor and power budget).
Yet some still think it's not RDNA2?
Yet some still think it's not RDNA2?
geordiemp
Member
Head start - Not by much, its almost August already.
Also yes MS showed the hardware first, but Sony showed their games first last month, still waiting for MS show next week. So its not possible to gauge where each are at really.
I dont think +/- 1 month will make any difference, everyone who wants one this year from either MS or sony will preorder as soon as anyway to avoid scalpers.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
Holiday 2020 - November onward realistically.
FeiRR
Banned
I think they couldn't. Hardware is ready but software most likely isn't. I mean firmware, OS and games, all of them. Production of consoles had started how long ago, one-two months? Those things need time, especially in the current world situation.
DrDamn
Member
I think the thread that has been created and the discourse here, on twitter and other sites following on from it show that no, that information was not known - or at least understood correctly. So now we have a shit storm and posts like the below which are interpreting it how they see fit. I don't think you were being malicious now, but I think you made two big mistakes. The first was posting a DM without permission - you've owned, apologised and accepted that. The other mistake was not taking the time to realise what posting it would cause. Without the context and understanding of the what, why and detail it was always going to cause a shit storm. You aren't stupid and a little bit of thought before posting it you would have realised what would happen. I also understand why you did post it and why your judgement may have been clouded, because your integrity was being questioned.
That all said you absolutely should not have had the day or so you've had as a result - that's just shitty. Should never have happened and was not deserved.
No, no he didn't he actually said it was something in between, which can be a lot of things. 1.9, 1.5, 1.7 or even all of 2.0 + Sony custom + a bit of 1.0 for backward compatibility reasons. You just don't know.
pasterpl
Member
seriously, why are you being so petty and trolling?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
wait, what? I am not the one releasing a next gen console with no next gen games. That's Microsoft. They are the ones being petty and trolling everyone who buys their next gen console thinking it will have next gen games.
I am just the messenger.
Dolomite
Member
Ok
Either way it's a hybrid. Not necessarily a bad thing but not full RDNA2. Sony may not have needed other features or simply added a few RDNA features later in development. I don't know you don't know, but what we do know is that it's a hybrid
Neo_game
Member
The problem is, PS5 clock remain a mystery, because you dont know how far PS5 will downclock. During "the road to PS5" talk Carny said he expect PS5 to stay at close to 2.2GHz most of the time, but he also contradicted himself saying PS5 GPU cant sustain 2GHz fixed clock (9.2TF), and that's why they have to use variable clock.
I think this variable strategy will work very well in games with framerate lock and fixed resolution, because in such scenario GPU is not pushed to it's limits anyway, and 2.2GHz clock is only used when needed. There are however also games with unlocked framerate and dynamic resolution. In such game PS5 GPU will have to run at 100% for extended period of time and I'm afraid we will never know how far PS5 GPU will have to downclock in such scenario.
Edit. - As I can see PS warriors have aready reported my post. But I'm not surprised PS certain people cant stand the truth, and especially when Cerny hismelf contradicts their believes.
Rea -
Old paradigm = fixed clock
New paradigm = variable clock
Cerny said it's impossible to sustain 2GHz clock with old paradigm (fixed clock). So based on what he said we know PS5 will not run at 2GHz clock for extended period of time, yet you want to believe PS5 GPU will have no problems sustaining even higher frequency. You guys want to believe in fairy tales for real? 2GHz and higher 2.2GHz is only possible thanks to the new paradigm (variable clock). Yes, with this strategy PS5 GPU can run 2.2GHz when game will need more GPU resources (for short period of time however). Cerny is right saying PS5 could hit even higher frequency than 2.2 GHz, because that's also the case on PC when you OC GPUs (it's easy to achieve every high frequency for short period of time, but in order to find stable clock you have to test what's the max sustained freqency).
Variable boost clock strategy is very good, because boost simply means more performance. Developers on PS5 know for sure how far PS5 GPU will downclock in the worst possible scenario and they can always optimize for this fixed clock (and everything about this clock will be a bonus for certain period of time).
PS fans think PS5 is using 2.2GHz because of RDNA2 architecture magic rather than variable clock, but the thing is MS is also using RDNA2 GPU, yet they cant sustain more than 1.8GHz.
Not sure if serious. It is common knowledge that the APU with lesser CU can be clocked more. With more CU there is a danger of overheating. Xbox is also clocked aggressively at 1.8Ghz for 52CU. Most people were expecting Xbox to have 56CU at 1.6Ghz to achieve 12TF. Moreover in PC we know the GPU for most part uses 95-98% Pretty sure neither console will have trouble with it.
geordiemp
Member
Ok
Either way it's a hybrid. Not necessarily a bad thing but not full RDNA2. Sony may not have needed other features or simply added a few RDNA features later in development. I don't know you don't know, but what we do know is that it's a hybrid
Both consoles are Custom RDNA2, they are both Hybrids. When amd release the PC part, we will see the differences.
Your hooked on Sony not Full RDNA2 and is custom, But fail to omit that MS is also custom RDNA2.
Your trying to console war based on no information about PC RDNA2, MS RDNA2 custom and PS5 RDNA2 custom.
Why have we not seen the PC RDNA2 yet ? What are AMD adding and why is it taking longer than consoles ? Amd could be doing tensor cores or their own DLSS.
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pasterpl
Member
what about likes of halo infinite (we know nothing so far about it and how was it developed - what we know that the engine built for it was targeting next gen, it might be actually full blown next gen title), there is the medium which will be the next gen exclusive available at launch (and via game pass), so your statement “no next gen games” is a bit of a stretch
btw. Serious question, do we know what next gen games will Sony have ready for ps5 launch? I know that Spider-Man MM is coming at launch but not sure if I can recall any other next gen title that was announced for holiday 2020 release
SleepDoctor
Banned
thelastword
Banned
It's crazy, but people always seem to forget that PS4 was the most powerful console from 2013-2017, that's the majority of the gen, but Sony fans are not really pre-occupied with that, hanging unto that or making it known, we just play the best game....Then of course, the most powerful console came in late 2017 and it's already out of commission after two years....I'll tell you something. I'd rather be playing Ghosts right now or LOU 2 last month than to be the owner of the most powerful console right now.....I'll choose great games that keeps on flowing all gen all day everyday ....LOL, i wouldn't expect too much if i were you. But I'm sure The best looking and best animation game from current gen, is not from most powerful console.
geordiemp
Member
Hellblade 2 and Medium look to be targeting next gen, Dont think Halo is but you never know, maybe XSX version will have more enemy variety and animations than the Xb1 version. We shall see....
All ps5 games from first party studios will be ps5 only, so can push Zen2 to add more enemies, animations and things that limit Jaguar.
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JonnyMP3
Member
Bugsnax
FranXico
Member
That guy is going to get harrassed again for saying that the PS5 is not 1.5. Just like before with the unique features that AMD might adopt in the roadmap.
And suggesting that the GitHub leak does not reflect the final silicon! Oh my, how dare he!
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
But can you play Ooblets?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You're messing up the narrative here. Remember what thread you're in.
The thread where you feel like adding these kind of drive by posts that add little value beyond trying to poke some of the other side’s fanboys?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
halo started dev in 2015. its not built for anything other than 2015 hardware. that should be common sense.
you are right about medium. i totally forgot about that.
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T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
I realised how much I share Paul's (RGT) content on these threads and how much I constantly reference him....maybe I am Paul himself? Lol jks of course
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thelastword
Banned
Aren't all these guys on GAF or were at some point?......Apart from Bernkastel, I've seen Croat with the same avatar at some point here, same for Dukeblueballs....Why would the XBOX discord fake a profile of one of their very own ladies, makes absolutely no sense to me......Nobody likes to be discovered for who they are.....It's just like the guys shitting up the forums by spreading hate/fud and calling people cunts and generally have no arguments and when they are called out, they say "they were just joking", trying to save face or do the famous song by Shaggy "it wasn't me"..... Truth is, If you don't want to be caught up in such things, or be embarrassed by it.... just don't do it, simple...If you have someone like @Bernkastel still around here on Gaf, those FUD threads about PS will always pop up. Imagine being this invested in your console, that X discord group is really pathetic. Even calling @Mod of War a pile of shit, very edgy.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Lisa Su confirmed RDNA 2.
Cerny confirmed RDNA 2.
We have CEO of AMD and Lead architect of the PlayStation 5, but their conformation is ignored and because one guy said its in between RDNA 1 and RDNA 2?
Stuart360
Member
I think it was only because of who supposedly said it that it got so much traction. If it had been joe Bloggs on Twitter, it would of been laugh off.
Elog
Member
The current discussion is a bad one. There are to many people that do not have truth as their interest - they are pushing details to push agendas instead of real curiosity around what the two platforms look like.
Before we even go further, I would implore the participants in the discussion to agree what they mean with RDNA2. I doubt the majority of the participants have a good idea about that.
For me RDNA2 means the upgraded TMSC fab with slight modifications to the core design of the CUs that allow a significant IPC gain, frequency increase and power-performance gain over RDNA1. All other things are optional features that you can pick and choose from depending on your design vision for the console.
Before we even go further, I would implore the participants in the discussion to agree what they mean with RDNA2. I doubt the majority of the participants have a good idea about that.
For me RDNA2 means the upgraded TMSC fab with slight modifications to the core design of the CUs that allow a significant IPC gain, frequency increase and power-performance gain over RDNA1. All other things are optional features that you can pick and choose from depending on your design vision for the console.
Thirty7ven
Banned
On the recent special fucking sauce vs peak hot lie:
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
But people are saying it's confirmed as if his statement holds more weight than Lisa Su and Mark Cerny.
That's the problem.
MarkMe2525
Banned
I generally agree with what you said, but don't you find it a little disingenuous to frame the XSX GPU as sacrificing something to reach their CU count. Their GPU is running at 1800 MHz IIRC. Is that not considered a high clock speed to run sustained in the GPU space? This is a genuine question.
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ToadMan
Member
Or just keep your xb1. Or play on pc. Or a Mac for that matter.
MS is the “jack of all trades” when it comes to game platforms. It’s nice to keep the options open and MS are leading the way
Neo Blaster
Member
Good to know you've got a silent one, Bo, but don't go mocking on people complaining about noise, mine is pretty loud.
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