Hawking Radiation
Member
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Rossco EZ
Member
what about the rest?
Gudji
Member
Too late.
Rossco EZ
Member
i replied before i saw the kratos gif
Hawking Radiation
Member
R1, R1, R2, hold R2
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
LordOfChaos
Member
SuBae interview
www.anandtech.com
Dean Takahashi, VentureBeat: Is real time ray-tracing in graphics going to be as big as NVIDIA says it is?
LS: I’ve said in the past that ray tracing is important, and I still believe that, but if you look at where we are today it is still very early. We are investing heavily in ray tracing and investing heavily in the ecosystem around it – both of our console partners have also said that they are using ray tracing. You should expect that our discrete graphics as we go through 2020 will also have ray tracing. I do believe though it is still very early, and the ecosystem needs to develop. We need more games and more software and more applications to take advantage of it. At AMD, we feel very good about our position on ray tracing.
AnandTech: The rearchitect of Vega for 7nm has been given a +56% performance increase. Does this mean that there was a lot left on the table with the design for 14/12nm? I’m trying to understand how you were able to pull so much extra performance from a simple process node change.
LS: When we put Vega into a mobile form factor with Ryzen 4000, we learned a lot about power optimization. 7nm was a part of it sure, but it was also a very power optimized design of that architecture. The really good thing about that is that what we learned is all applicable to Navi as well. David’s team put a huge focus on performance per watt, and that really comes out of the mobile form factor, and so I’m pleased with what they are doing. You will see a lot of that technology will also impact when you see Navi in a mobile form factor as well.
Lots more
AMD at CES 2020: Q&A with Dr. Lisa Su
Dean Takahashi, VentureBeat: Is real time ray-tracing in graphics going to be as big as NVIDIA says it is?
LS: I’ve said in the past that ray tracing is important, and I still believe that, but if you look at where we are today it is still very early. We are investing heavily in ray tracing and investing heavily in the ecosystem around it – both of our console partners have also said that they are using ray tracing. You should expect that our discrete graphics as we go through 2020 will also have ray tracing. I do believe though it is still very early, and the ecosystem needs to develop. We need more games and more software and more applications to take advantage of it. At AMD, we feel very good about our position on ray tracing.
AnandTech: The rearchitect of Vega for 7nm has been given a +56% performance increase. Does this mean that there was a lot left on the table with the design for 14/12nm? I’m trying to understand how you were able to pull so much extra performance from a simple process node change.
LS: When we put Vega into a mobile form factor with Ryzen 4000, we learned a lot about power optimization. 7nm was a part of it sure, but it was also a very power optimized design of that architecture. The really good thing about that is that what we learned is all applicable to Navi as well. David’s team put a huge focus on performance per watt, and that really comes out of the mobile form factor, and so I’m pleased with what they are doing. You will see a lot of that technology will also impact when you see Navi in a mobile form factor as well.
Lots more
Hawking Radiation
Member
Lol. We need more memes lol. Someone do an xbox one
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
My contractual obligations with Sony would not allow me to do so.
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Blindarchangel82
Member
Not sure how credible this is, but it's food for thought...
The Mad Draklor
Member
So if I'm reading this correctly, the PS5 is running on some sort of dual-GPU configuration? The heck...?
bhunachicken
Member
Am I mistaken, or didn't an nVidia guy recently tweet a photo of himself outside the PlayStation HQ in America..?
Wouldn't that be weird: AMD APU for the CPU and GPU, but nVidia hardware to handle raytracing.
I'd actually find that hilarious
Aceofspades
Banned
demigod
Member
Am I mistaken, or didn't an nVidia guy recently tweet a photo of himself outside the PlayStation HQ in America..?
Wouldn't that be weird: AMD APU for the CPU and GPU, but nVidia hardware to handle raytracing.
I'd actually find that hilarious
No he's an ex Sucker Punch employee.
Speculation was that Sony would use PowerVR for their Ray Tracing.
OsirisBlack
,
HeisenbergFX4
any truth to these rumors?
Insane Metal
Member
Well... I told someone about this TODAY.
ps: my guess only but that's exactly what I had in mind.
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
It is balanced, makes sense... but it does not destroy Sony. Team fake dude, team fake!
Blindarchangel82
Member
No really. This would imply that Sony is using a discrete Ray-Tracing chip. Meaning it's separate from the GPU itself. Therefore, it wouldn't affect the performance of the GPU as it's dedicated specifically to Ray-Tracing duties. Grain of salt required.
pawel86ck
Banned
.
Disco_
Member
Probably not at all. If they Went with PowerVR for example, nto sure any other choices are out there, someone has shown that RT implementation would still be inside the GPU. Not on a separate chip.
He used to work at Sucker Punch. That's what the tweet was alluding to.Am I mistaken, or didn't an nVidia guy recently tweet a photo of himself outside the PlayStation HQ in America..?
Wouldn't that be weird: AMD APU for the CPU and GPU, but nVidia hardware to handle raytracing.
I'd actually find that hilarious
Hawking Radiation
Member
The way i read it is that Sony sacrificed some of the GPU real estate for a sizeable chuck of dedicated ray tracing hardware?
I dunno, i may be wrong. I remember someone mentioning that PS5 raytracing ability is actually superior to Series X. That may also be untrue. I dunno
Shin
Banned
Á new rumor, leak, spec every minute.
We next-gen now ~
For discussion sake and long story short, Sony would have made the smarter* choice as it's more cost effective.
The off-set for better cooling (if 2GHz) would still make their BoM cheaper than MS while most likely ending up with similar fidelity.
Would explain the 9.2TF/die-size and the difference is about $50 less than retail, enough to make difference while not losing* too much.
I don't believe anyone at this point though as these things keep popping up faster than mushrooms.
Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame...
We next-gen now ~
For discussion sake and long story short, Sony would have made the smarter* choice as it's more cost effective.
The off-set for better cooling (if 2GHz) would still make their BoM cheaper than MS while most likely ending up with similar fidelity.
Would explain the 9.2TF/die-size and the difference is about $50 less than retail, enough to make difference while not losing* too much.
I don't believe anyone at this point though as these things keep popping up faster than mushrooms.
Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame...
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sonomamashine
Member
too lazy to google that word.
sonomamashine
Member
The leak is fake, it would draw more power.
David Ricardo
Member
So Sony gave up 2.8 teraflops to save 50€? Let's say a BOM of 450€ Gives them 9.2 tf. That's around 50€ per teraflop. They could get almost 3 tfs more for another 50 and they didn't? Reducing their graphical power by 25% for a 10% cost saving, That's smart?
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Highly plausible; Sony's been doing their own custom stuff with ray-tracing for a long time now. The 12TF number for XSX probably includes the ray-tracing; with ray-tracing being applied that's going to eat away a percentage of the 12TF regardless (unless devs do it through the CPU, but then that takes resources away from the CPU).
Really hoping this is the case because at least that means SOMETHING that's genuinely different between the two systems in terms of tech and how it's implemented. It'd be fun to see developers utilize both methods to see where their advantages and disadvantages are at.
Depends on Sony's budget allocation for PS5 R&D. Keep in mind earlier rumors were saying PS5 had the better RT implementation. We know AMD's RT tech is not as developed as Nvidia's and Sony has "reasons" why they likely wouldn't use Nvidia tech in their consoles anymore. They R&D ray-tracing stuff of their own, it's not hard to fathom they came up with their own solution.
And also keep in mind...this is Sony. They love pushing their tech if they can, especially if it's proprietary. If they have some clever RT solution and married that with AMD's GPU through customizations, I can easily see them bypassing using AMD's RT in favor of their own integrated into the system package. It would save Sony money since they can write off their RT R&D expenses, and have more control over the technology and fine-tuning it.
As far as Sony "giving up" performance, well that's assuming they originally set out for 12TF to begin with. We don't know if they did. They most likely did not. Also, that's not how you calculate the BOM; these systems are much more than just their GPUs.
Sony may've came to AMD with their own RT solution to implement into the APU, while MS may've went with RT development AMD had been doing on its own and bringing that into the XSX's GPU.
They would both still be technically "using" AMD RT tech, but Sony's would be their own implementation spun into silicon by AMD to put in PS5, and MS's would be AMD's own RT tech (separate from Sony's) pulled from whatever RT they have planned for RDNA2 into the XSX APU. That's all.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Hol
Holy fuck, please don't watch those videos ppl, they are just to stupid.
The guy is an embarrassing ps fanboy, he needs help.
Holy fuck, please don't watch those videos ppl, they are just to stupid.
The guy is an embarrassing ps fanboy, he needs help.
Kazekage1981
Member
This maybe slightly off topic, but I wont be buying any new desktop or laptop unless it has the following:
-5G (for laptop)
-Wifi6
-USB thunderbolt or USB 4.0
-DDR5 RAM
-PCIE 5
-Zen 3 or Zen 4 with RDNA 2.0 APU.
-5G (for laptop)
-Wifi6
-USB thunderbolt or USB 4.0
-DDR5 RAM
-PCIE 5
-Zen 3 or Zen 4 with RDNA 2.0 APU.
Vol5
Member
AMD confirmed that their partners are using RT, but Lisa didn't categorically confirm it was AMD tech powering it. She only mentions 2020 discrete GPU's may contain it, so perhaps a dedicated RT chip is feasible.
Shin
Banned
TFLOPS? Lol...
$50 x amount of consoles expected to sell/ship = ?
Seperate chip is definitely bullcrap but dedicated RT cores in the GPU portion of the APU might be a thing.
xool
Member
Guy had a 0% success rate so far .. do you really need to ask ?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
No really. This would imply that Sony is using a discrete Ray-Tracing chip. Meaning it's separate from the GPU itself. Therefore, it wouldn't affect the performance of the GPU as it's dedicated specifically to Ray-Tracing duties. Grain of salt required.
If it were so easy why didn't AMD or Nvidia ever try that? I would think it's better to have it be inside the GPU because the last thing you want to have happen is a situation where the GPU's execution units end up stalling from some failure for the RT hardware and the GPU itself to properly coordinate in a way that maintains performance, and where developers have maximum control. In other words, you would end up cratering GPU performance for an entirely different reason other than just running Ray Tracing.
Think about it, having some separate hardware handle it all so the GPU faces zero performance consequence for ray tracing is the most common sense sounding thing in the world, if it were actually that easy. I'm guessing it isn't, and that's why Nvidia, and likely AMD, aren't going to try such a thing.
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01011001
Banned
I lost several thousand of braincells listening to this bullshit... anyone who watches this and think "oh yeah he totally has a point" literally needs a fanboy tag... the fuck did I just watch there?
SportsFan581
Member
It sounded to me, like AMD didn't want to stand too near either solution in that excerpt posted above (if accurate). I also saw a YT video where a rep was asked about XSX and they said they couldn't talk about it, but did say the chip used MS's vrs tech, which seamed to imply it was different from AMD's. Probably quite a bit of custom going on.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Having a RISC co-processor in there is not bullshit; RISC is basically like ARM in concept but open-license and open-spec. Nvidia plans on using RISC-V based processors on their GPUs going forward IIRC.
I can see Sony and/or MS having a RISC co-processor onboard alongside the Zen 2 main processor, rather than using an ARM one.
Prepare to wait another 3-4 years then; PCIe 4.0 is barely a year old standard on just some processors and motherboards. DDR5 is probably late this year at the very earliest. We're only just getting console APUs with Zen 2 and some RDNA2 features in it.
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Hawking Radiation
Member
Rossco EZ
Member
i wanted to hear his excuses
Blindarchangel82
Member
Self High Five
Member
DF can be so verbose sometimes. Going on and on about CES when the whole reason I clicked is the breakdown of the chip. I stopped half way through
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David Ricardo
Member
I read on the other site that, according to Sony, first year buyers (mostly hardcore) spend 1600$ on average during the generation. Losing a couple million of those (3.2 billion dollars in spending) to Microsoft to save 50$ (1 billion dollars if they sell 20 million consoles) doesn't seem like a specially smart move.
Also, according to our previous estimation (based on nothing, but let's use those numbers for speculation sake). The 9.2 tf/450BOM console would be the one making a 50$ loss per unit sold if sold at 400$ while the 12 tf/500BOM one sold at 500 would almost break even. So Sony would be losing money on each unit and also millions of those high value customers that care about teraflops.
The wise move in our wild hypothetical would be going with the 500 BOM.
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ARM cpus are already integrated into Zen2 dies so it’s probably a lot easier to just stick with arm.
Also ARM cpus are RISC.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
Final warning to dial it back on the blatant console warring in this thread.
No just calling out the obvious sony fanboys who said id be quiet. Orisis Black is bullshit , so is Klee. I told you all in June when you were dancing, xbox would be most powerful. Dont be mad because im looking right and the piece of plastic you pine for looks weaker.
01011001
Banned
DF can be so verbose sometimes. Going on and on about CES when the whole reason I clicked is the breakdown of the chip. I stopped half way through
yeah, that is what youtube's algorithm and their mid-roll ad rules made out of youtube... drawn out stuff that could have been said in half the time.
look at any video of YongYea. he talks at the speed of an alcoholic after 10 beers and draws out his videos so much that people started parodying it and generally joking about it.
The Mad Draklor
Member
You're quite too obsessed over something that is unconfirmed.
Rossco EZ
Member
let him have his moment lol
OsirisBlack
Banned
Squid vs X 1 year bet? (Guessing you keep missing it)
I will double down on the ray tracing and power. (Neither is < 10) I'll take a separate bet on that.
I also stated a LONG time ago that the machine was 100% bc with PS4 (That was planned day 1) I really don't know about the other generations.
I also stand by XSeX having a better launch games line up if were counting brand new games not launching during the Xb1 or Ps4 window. (Counting late PS4 games Ghosts is going to be hard to beat)
Most of the other info I got this week is concerning games and MS is definitely killing it. Console info is really tight at the moment.
Also Someone got the quote right before CES but I won't say who. Second time around is always better than the first. Eyeballs will bleed. (I have spoken)
Edited to add: I will take a separate bet from ANYONE that one of MS in house games that I have already mentioned will be running at a native 8k.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
It's just really pathetic that his sanity is extremely dependent on a machine.
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