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[Bogroll]

I did miss your previous post and didn't even see @Hage Kamo's post, they got lost in the pile of posts and I was on my phone at my cabin with kbps speed internet. I just read your fanboy post. Having seen both I stand by what I said.

It just seems when people disagree the "fanboy" monicker comes out as if it's a valid argument on GAF. It's not, and it's not a contribution to the discussion. Sorry if me pointing that out offended you, that wasn't the point. You are right though, there is absolutely a bias for everyone posting in this thread, everyone has their favorites.

I also know that @Hage Kamo only has a base PS4 which he's stated multiple times. That's why I ask someone like Sebmugi to post some shots from a PS4 Pro so I could come to my own conclusions. I like to think Sebmugi and I are very similar in our thinking in this thread and I trust him to call things as he sees them and I know he doesn't play stupid games in the thread. I also think he and I both like just stopping to look at shit in games.

I can prefer one and still concede points where another is better. Frankly they all suck shit in one area or another as quite a few people here have pointed out, myself included.

In @Hage Kamo's post replying to you it actually looks like he posted an image he's posted before. I assume he grabbed the wrong link so I outright ignored that comparison since it made no sense. @Hage Kamo has pointed out the gameplay LOD drop in GTS multiple times in this thread, I assume that was what he was showing in that post as well.

Now that I've looked back, you showed a comparison that seemed to favor Forza 7 with the S2000's reflection and headlight effects actually appearing on the track surface where as in GTS they are MIA. I'm assuming from your more recent post however you intended to point out the headlight effects in both games, and not GTS' missing reflections and light pattern. Your other comparison is a shot pointed off-track in FM7 on the Ring GP track vs. a shot straight down the city track in GTS. This isn't exactly a straight on comparison itself and nobody pointed any fingers at you for that comparison. It is showing one of the weaknesses of using duplicate assets for reflections, which I've also pointed out in this thread with distant car reflections appearing through the ground.



I'm sure you realise my observations are of what I've seen on forums and YouTube. I've stated many times I don't have a PS4 or PS4 Pro to make the comparisons otherwise I'd just post from the game myself. I could throw up GT6 shots all day, but they tend to look pretty rough these days. I also don't have an X1X, just a launch Xbone. I mostly rely on direct-feed video when I compare console versions or the images people post here. If people are posting bullshit images I'm sure they'll get called out as it's happened several times in the thread already.



DOF and camera angles absolutely do. Used together they can change the way an entire setting looks. A game can look like a pile of shit under scrutiny, but add in some DOF here, a wide angle lense there and better viewing angle here and you can control how much jankyness gets through.

I can't speak to how accurate these images comparo are as I also don't have an X, just an OG Bone sitting under my TV collecting dust. I blew it off and grabbed a shot of the S2000 and a PC shot on low settings for the car models. I see C carsar and DynamiteCop! both posted in-game shots showing a much higher detail AI model in-game, so I'm not sure what's up with your results. Maybe it's due to it being a rain race as T Three suggested.

The only way I can come close to replicating that LOD that close to the car is playing it on my launch base Xbone in a rain race or setting my PC to Very Low:

Launch Xbone (Full car field, Hockenheimring, heavy rain).

PC on Very Low settings:

PC on Ultra settings:

These are resized gifs. Resized gifs still don't hide my point here. In the top images the background trees are blurred from an aperture effect. Despite being shrunk, the effect is still quite apparent. The effect hides aliasing among other things like missing details or the fact that the entire row of trees in the background is a big flat surface. There also seems to be a big jump in the particles used for the rain effect in the replay. If I'm to base things off just your comparison here, there are absolutely improvements made during replays in GTS. I wasn't shaming GTS for this anyways, the use of these effects adds to the replays and makes them look much better than in-game visuals. I've shit on Forza 7's replays since I started posting here, they're shit-tier. The poor use or complete lack of effects hurts Forza 7's replays massively. If anything I think T10 needs to take a page out of this book. I think SMS had it right with the first PCars and somehow took a step back in PCars 2. GTS's use of visual effects to improve replays along with wise replay angle choices is why it has the best replays.

Gameplay followed by replay


Watch that video in 4K/60, observe the pop and fade in during the gameplay, then observe the lack of both during the replay. It also demonstrates quite clearly that DOF and aperture effects are used frequently, just as your resized gif did. Again, this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The car models do take a massive hit when going into actual gameplay, and there are countless examples of this in the thread. Shadow quality in gameplay modes is also different than in replays, with clear steps in quality during gameplay that are not present during replays. Again, good, they have the added resources suring replays, why not use them?

There is a hard line just ahead of the car where the shadow quality drops to a blurry mess.


In replay mode you can see the shadow quality drop line is no longer present


I posted a GTS video a while back of the Beetle on the city track showing how massive of a downgrade the cars can have between in-game and replay. The Beetle's tail lights become xeptagons in-game.



There is a ton of shit to hide in almost any game when you get too close. There isn't a game on the market that you can't tear apart under scrutiny.

The really funny thing with these shots is that you don't even have to come to a complete stop on this track for it to fall apart in FM7, it was actually downgraded in complexity from the version of the track used in Forza 6, which was a downgrade in complexity from Forza 5. It's easy to explain why though. This is one of the tracks in the game that has all the possible TOD and weather options open, and still allows a full 24 car field so they cut the scenery to bare minimum so that it could run on the base Xbone at a locked 60fps. No denying it looks rough. You should try taking a screenshot on this track at night with the exposure up, it looks like an N64 game on the OG XBone. Definitely a sore spot for the game.



The phrase "high quality motion blur" is a contradiction. Motion blur should have one setting, off.

All three major "sim" racers, Forza 7, GTS, and Project Cars 2 are completely hit-or-miss in a lot of areas. I'm pretty sure at this point in the thread we've reached a concensus on more than a few points.

-One of those was that GTS uses better shaders than Forza 7 on many surfaces, though I'd argue that some materials like rubber in Forza look more convincing. I'd argue Horizon 4 handles things equally as well as GTS for the most part.

-The lighting engine in GTS is handled much better overall, I don't think anybody is arguing that either. I'd argue here again, especially given the open world and random weather possibilities, Horizon 4 handles lighting even better than GTS does.

-Nobody is arguing the car model accuracy in GT is superior to the Forza games, though limited in both number and missing any sort of damage model. GT Sport car models in-game are another matter entirely, there is a massive poly count drop. Between the fact they have full damage models and you can run the entire 32 car field with Ultra LOD on a PC, I'd give this one to Project Cars 2.

-I will also argue the quality of track and near-track surfaces in Forza 7, as well as the texture quality in general is much better than either Project Cars 2 or GT Sport. There was a comparison a few pages back that showed this pretty well. Now once again I'll bring Horizon 4 into things, many items in the game's world has a version for each season, and it all still has to look decent up close since you can drive into it all. Looking into things like trees, Horizon has all modeled trees, which move in the wind and all but the biggest trees can be destroyed by the cars.

-When it comes to the weather effects, compared with DC's over the top fantastical effects, FH4's literally random weather and seasons, PC2's ability to make it sunny, rain or snow on and track, FM7's fairly limited system and even old PGR4 which portrayed all four seasons, GTS is was behind. Even GT6 has more weather options. The visual representation of it's limited weather system is also not up to par with the rest. Considering everything, I have to give this to FH4 again. Though the seasons are sectioned, there are big changes to the environments with the different seasons like higher rivers, frozen lakes, changes to the trees, etc.

-Photomode hands down goes to GTS. They've been improving this mode since it was first implemented. Horizon 4 and PCars 2 can produce some really great shots as well but GTS has a definite edge. FM7 shots can look really good, but the photomode has low quality DOF, Bokeh, and the motion blur effect is abysmal.

-Replays. Just like above, GTS is building on what started with the first GT. PCars is decent, though rough at times. Forza 7 uses poor angles, poor effects and uses too many moving/panning on a rail style angles. Horizon 4 doesn't even have mounted camera points making them even worse.



This was something in Forza 7 I didn't like either and again attribute to the game needing to run at all on the base console. The interiors and the interior lighting effects were greatly improved for Horizon 4, as well as these headlight effects, so hopefully they stay improved for Forza 8. That said, there were improvements in Horizon 3 that missed Forza 7...

The cubemap reflections used for the interiors in GTS are definitely something everyone else needs to copy/paste, they add a lot to the interiors that have chrome parts.

Forza Motorsport 4 gameplay:

The demo was removed a while back and replaced with a 4 hour trail of the full download. He's running the 4 hour trial which should be exactly the same as the full release.

Well that was a fun waste of time. Until next time

It's not a waste of time most appreciate your detailed posts.
How do you set up race to include S2000s etc, I'm struggling somehow lol. And do you just taking pics with the inbuilt screenshot function. I got a X I'll try and post a comparison.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

It's not a waste of time most appreciate your detailed posts.
How do you set up race to include S2000s etc, I'm struggling somehow lol. And do you just taking pics with the inbuilt screenshot function. I got a X I'll try and post a comparison.

Go to freeplay, go to the race menu and then the advanced tab up top, scroll down and you will see make and model adjustment boxes.

 

[Stuart360]

Yikes, i'll leave you guys to it lol.

 

[Bogroll]

Yikes, i'll leave you guys to it lol.

It's the only thread that has it's own security guards to tackle the fakers

 

[Bogroll]

Go to freeplay, go to the race menu and then the advanced tab up top, scroll down and you will see make and model adjustment boxes.

Aggghhhh it's not letting me do it, I'm gonna smash TV up in a minute lol

Keeps saying not all drivers have a car, what's that shit all about

Edit, done it. Do you keep driving round till you find a yellow one

 

[Bogroll]

It's so hard to capture, I give up.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

It's so hard to capture, I give up.

It's not easy, but it shows you the lengths people go when their other points have failed. The reality is these 'details' are ones you will never perceive, not for a second, they are only seen because of specifically looking for faults in taken stills zoomed in combing over them extensively.

 

[New Yorks Finest]

It's not easy, but it shows you the lengths people go when their other points have failed. The reality is these 'details' are ones you will never perceive, not for a second, they are only seen because of specifically looking for faults in taken stills zoomed in combing over them extensively.

We know you're a huuuuge fan of Xbox and adore Forza (I rock both consoles)you love em to death..but c'mon, who would do that or go to those type of lengths?...ohh shi, nm it's nerd GAF

 

[Bogroll]

It's not easy, but it shows you the lengths people go when their other points have failed. The reality is these 'details' are ones you will never perceive, not for a second, they are only seen because of specifically looking for faults in taken stills zoomed in combing over them extensively.

Any idea how you can get the same cars on Gts ?
But anyway you can only have 20 cars in rain on Red bull at least. Also selected max cars on display(20) standing start and dawn race and the frame drops are quite bad, tried a few times just to make sure, can anyone else confirm this? Quality mode btw.

Anyways they can look as bad as each other in rain.

 

[Birdo]

This argument is kind of boring this gen because GT is just so far ahead in visuals. Forza games look great, but they just aren't on the same level.

Hopefully it's closer next gen, so we can have some serious wars again.

 

[Little Chicken]

Forza Horzon 4 >

 

[DynamiteCop!]

This argument is kind of boring this gen because GT is just so far ahead in visuals. Forza games look great, but they just aren't on the same level.

Hopefully it's closer next gen, so we can have some serious wars again.

If you're talking about GT Sport vs. Forza 7 there's a ton of give and take, but if Horizon 4 is thrown into the fray it's not even a question, it looks indisputably better than any other racing game GT or otherwise.

 

[scalman]

arguments kinda boring without proves in pics, because words does nothing they not prove anything. prove it with pics or deny it . and im not saying one is shit game over another , but proves are in pics.

 

[Birdo]

If you're talking about GT Sport vs. Forza 7 there's a ton of give and take, but if Horizon 4 is thrown into the fray it's not even a question, it looks indisputably better than any other racing game GT or otherwise.

I don't agree. The lighting enging used by PD just looks far more realistic.

FH4 looks great. But it just doesn't have that "Wow, it looks like real footage" thing for me.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I don't agree. The lighting enging used by PD just looks far more realistic.

FH4 looks great. But it just doesn't have that "Wow, it looks like real footage" thing for me.

So you focus on the lighting engine (which mind you is marginally better) and ignore every other capacity in which Horizon is superior, and you don't agree?

Doesn't seem to add up to me.

 

[scalman]

but do we want it look like real or look amazing ? i remember PD dev said himself that in real life cars can look kinda boring on some lighting conditions and driving cars is not that hard as in video games as well. they make games to be fun not too much realistic , just enough sure.

how can you compare premade lighting in GTS and total dynamic one in Horizon 4 where shadows on cockipt are allways different they move as you turn around they change , materials change depends on how much ligts is outside, do very nice looking premade lighting is much easier to make it very good looking , but i drive cars on tracks in GTS and i maybe see like 2 different shadow locations on cockpit , and some areas there have like permanent made shadows that dont change at all.

 

[Birdo]

So you focus on the lighting engine (which mind you is marginally better) and ignore every other capacity in which Horizon is superior, and you don't agree?

Doesn't seem to add up to me.

It's probably the most important part of making computer graphics look reaslistic (Ask any CG artist).

Does more realistic = Better looking? Well, it's different for each person. But for me, it is.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

It's probably the most important part of making computer graphics look reaslistic (Ask any CG artist).

Does more realistic = Better looking? Well, it's different for each person. But for me, it is.

Shot for shot I'm going to say even Forza 7 looks better, from a gameplay perspective what you see simply looks better.

I'm not big on the nitty gritty let's zoom in 400% shit, it should be about what represents focal perceptibility and that as the presentation as you play the game and frankly GT Sport falls short, a lot.

The lighting model is slightly better, but that's about it, everything else for the most part looks worse. I mean they do some things differently which are more horizontal design decisions and one is not better than the other but the overall appearance of GT Sport just isn't up to snuff.

 

[VisualFidelity]

anyone have Grid? How does that compare? Any same tracks?

 

[Bogroll]

Shot for shot I'm going to say even Forza 7 looks better, from a gameplay perspective what you see simply looks better.

I'm not big on the nitty gritty let's zoom in 400% shit, it should be about what represents focal perceptibility and that as the presentation as you play the game and frankly GT Sport falls short, a lot.

The lighting model is slightly better, but that's about it, everything else for the most part looks worse. I mean they do some things differently which are more horizontal design decisions and one is not better than the other but the overall appearance of GT Sport just isn't up to snuff.

I've played both tonight and i do find it hard to split, i think if Forza had Gts's lighting it would be Forza for me, if Gts had Forza's draw distance, resolution and lod pop in it would be Gts. There may be some other little things but seeing car badges for example pop right in on the boot/trunk on Gts is a bit poor. Trees better on Gts but there are some 2d one's mixed in there that spoil it a bit.

 

[scalman]

still no matter who prefer what and poor people who can play only one game, i play all of them well all from those most talked about and you need all of them, otherwise you will never see amazing things that can be in those games that other game dont have, even if GTS is kinda similar to F7 in terms that its on tracks and its events , they still different games, more cars on F7 and more events, F7 is stayed more like older GT games , still have plenty events thats feels at least some kind old school . and then there is Horizon 3,4 amazing open world racing games that any NFS or grid or anything else comes close in terms of quality.
so if play only one or two racing games because you think those are better , you missing stuff that you dont know what you talking about . ...
Shadows on cockpit that changing in F7 or H4 is never seen or exist on GTS because its just not same lighting style as not dynamic ...
there are plenty moments in Horizon 3 or 4 when you thinking this is better looking cockpit then in GTS and im playing open world game with real lighting real shadows inside car . .its those moments ... for car fans they are important, for those who play in cockpit ...

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I've played both tonight and i do find it hard to split, i think if Forza had Gts's lighting it would be Forza for me, if Gts had Forza's draw distance, resolution and lod pop in it would be Gts. There may be some other little things but seeing car badges for example pop right in on the boot/trunk on Gts is a bit poor. Trees better on Gts but there are some 2d one's mixed in there that spoil it a bit.

Well you see that's the thing, they both have some advantages and some disadvantages. HOWEVER when you take in the whole, when you absorb the entire scene it's clear that the inferiority in GTS overall cannot be understated.

It's a bad looking game, this isn't even zoomed in. This is just your field out of the windshield isolated, it's muddy as all hell.

Another thing, a lot of the track details are all wrong and they shove things in to fluff the scene. See the forest on GT Sport, how it's all huge and overgrown? That shit doesn't even exist beyond the forest area you see in F7 on the top right.

This is what it actually looks like.

 

[lynux3]

 

[Bogroll]

Well you see that's the thing, they both have some advantages and some disadvantages. HOWEVER when you take in the whole, when you absorb the entire scene it's clear that the inferiority in GTS overall cannot be understated.

It's a bad looking game, this isn't even zoomed in. This is just your field out of the windshield isolated, it's muddy as all hell.

Another thing, a lot of the track details are all wrong and they shove things in to fluff the scene. See the forest on GT Sport, how it's all huge and overgrown? That shit doesn't even exist beyond the forest area you see in F7 on the top right.

This is what it actually looks like.

I kind of agree with you but i'd like to be a bit more diplomatic about it. Gts has more of the initial wow factor to the untrained eye and i can understand why casuals would say Gts hands down. But when you start to look below the surface you can see its short comings and that's where you can see where Forza has its positives in comparison. But both have areas they can improve.

 

[Bogroll]

This thread goes way deeper than that

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I kind of agree with you but i'd like to be a bit more diplomatic about it. Gts has more of the initial wow factor to the untrained eye and i can understand why casuals would say Gts hands down. But when you start to look below the surface you can see its short comings and that's where you can see where Forza has its positives in comparison. But both have areas they can improve.

No offense, but when I hear someone say "I'd like to be a bit more diplomatic" I kind of take that as I don't want to be labeled as a fanboy so I'm going to tiptoe with criticism even if it's totally justified. Just go in hard where it needs to be said.

GTS's aliasing is an abomination, you've got stair stepping taking place so dramatic it would amount to anywhere from 3" to 10" of elevation differences on something that is supposed to be an even surface. Look at the railings running down the track, look at the big building, it's really bad.

The LoD is terrible even close to you, look at the grass directly near the car, first off there is no grass, it's entirely a flat texture but secondly the LoD of that grass which is right in front of the car is the level of detail Forza 7's has 100+ feet down the track. Look where the sand meets the grass, look at that transition, it looks like giant Lego coming together it's so jagged.

Forza 7 is not without its fault but jesus, GTS is really rough. It's a muddy looking game which is the culmination of several things in conjunction that just kill its presentation. Firstly it's only a 1600x1800 raw render which is then checkerboarded. That's a base rendering resolution of 2,880,000 pixels, that's an arms reach above 1080p as the base. The checkerboarding brings it up to 3200x1800 but it's not the greatest implementation. Add to this the what appears to be a total lack of anti-aliasing and some seriously weak texture filtering and you've got a trinity of things that would destroy the apperance of any game.

Forza doesn't have these problem, it's native 4K so a lot of aliasing is naturally cleaned up by these 8,294,400 fully rendered pixels being displayed. Forza 7 also uses an implementation of EQAA which helps clean the image up, add to this its higher level of anisotropic-filtering and you end up with a superb image, not perfect but quite excellent and leaps and bounds above GTS.

To me it seems like for GTS that they focused too heavily on the wrong things which lead to this poor image quality. They should have had a base render of maybe 1080p and then checkerboarded that, it would be softer but they could have done more. They could have cranked up their AA, they could have increased texture filtering, they could have added more track details like grass etc.

I have both games and I can look at them and say to GTS "Oh this lighting looks really cool, I like how realistic it can look and I like these exaggerated gleaming reflections" or "These trees can look pretty damn good", but at the same time understand that the game has heaps of IQ faults that bring the whole product down.

I mean even in your immediate purview in GAMEPLAY the problems are readily apparent. Look at not only the cars but look at all the surfaces, look at the grass, the sand, the road, the shadows coming off the cars, the level of aliasing and softness differences... It's shocking, this isn't stuff way off in the distance, this shit is right up in your face, this is what the game looks like.

 

[Bogroll]

No offense, but when I hear someone say "I'd like to be a bit more diplomatic" I kind of take that as I don't want to be labeled as a fanboy so I'm going to tiptoe with criticism even if it's totally justified. Just go in hard where it needs to be said.

GTS's aliasing is an abomination, you've got stair stepping taking place so dramatic it would amount to anywhere from 3" to 10" of elevation differences on something that is supposed to be an even surface. Look at the railings running down the track, look at the big building, it's really bad.

The LoD is terrible even close to you, look at the grass directly near the car, first off there is no grass, it's entirely a flat texture but secondly the LoD of that grass which is right in front of the car is the level of detail Forza 7's has 100+ feet down the track. Look where the sand meets the grass, look at that transition, it looks like giant Lego coming together it's so jagged.

Forza 7 is not without its fault but jesus, GTS is really rough. It's a muddy looking game which is the culmination of several things in conjunction that just kill its presentation. Firstly it's only a 1600x1800 raw render which is then checkerboarded. That's a base rendering resolution of 2,880,000 pixels, that's an arms reach above 1080p as the base. The checkerboarding brings it up to 3200x1800 but it's not the greatest implementation. Add to this the what appears to be a total lack of anti-aliasing and some seriously weak texture filtering and you've got a trinity of things that would destroy the apperance of any game.

Forza doesn't have these problem, it's native 4K so a lot of aliasing is naturally cleaned up by these 8,294,400 fully rendered pixels being displayed. Forza 7 also uses an implementation of EQAA which helps clean the image up, add to this its higher level of anisotropic-filtering and you end up with a superb image, not perfect but quite excellent and leaps and bounds above GTS.

To me it seems like for GTS that they focused too heavily on the wrong things which lead to this poor image quality. They should have had a base render of maybe 1080p and then checkerboarded that, it would be softer but they could have done more. They could have cranked up their AA, they could have increased texture filtering, they could have added more track details like grass etc.

I have both games and I can look at them and say to GTS "Oh this lighting looks really cool, I like how realistic it can look and I like these exaggerated gleaming reflections" or "These trees can look pretty damn good", but at the same time understand that the game has heaps of IQ faults that bring the whole product down.

I mean even in your immediate purview in GAMEPLAY the problems are readily apparent. Look at not only the cars but look at all the surfaces, look at the grass, the sand, the road, the shadows coming off the cars, the level of aliasing and softness differences... It's shocking, this isn't stuff way off in the distance, this shit is right up in your face, this is what the game looks like.

No offense taken it's just my general basic view as I like both games.
I pretty much agree with what you say about both

 

[Sebmugi]

I would be curious to know which version of GT sport are taken these pictures look like they have relatively old .. more this circuit of Brands Hatch back to the time ps3 there is new circuits in the game that are more provided in grass and in other details ..
when the problem of antialisang and other solutions, on a beautiful Oled screen like mine and with a Pro, the game is very well defined

 

[carsar]

The weirdest thing 1080p can look sharper at some areas, The Asphalt looks better, the rear light looks worse,

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I would be curious to know which version of GT sport are taken these pictures look like they have relatively old .. more this circuit of Brands Hatch back to the time ps3 there is new circuits in the game that are more provided in grass and in other details ..
when the problem of antialisang and other solutions, on a beautiful Oled screen like mine and with a Pro, the game is very well defined

A fully updated game yesterday running on the Pro.

The weirdest thing 1080p can look sharper at some areas, The Asphalt looks better, the rear light looks worse,

It's probably the same kind of situation as Red Dead Redemption 2, that looks better on the base PS4 as well than the Pro. Their checkerboarding method was not great and produced an inferior image in some regards. I don't know, the whole situation with this game is kind of fucky.

 

[Sebmugi]

A fully updated game yesterday running on the Pro.

Ah ok, it's just the circuit that does that ..

The weirdest thing 1080p can look sharper at some areas, The Asphalt looks better, the rear light looks worse,

interesting to see that the game does not have the same rendering, I like the rendering of the asphalt shows layers of material thickness, when Forza put more granularity

 

[BusierDonkey]

This thread goes way deeper than that

DF tends to guess a lot. That tech video was off on a few things, like their analysis of the reflections. Forza 7 does not use a vector map of previous frame in 3rd person for the cars, only on the hood in one view setting. It uses cubemaps for everything else related to the car. If it used a vector map of frame data as they state, you would see other cars reflected in the paint, which isn't the case in anything but hood view. Forza 7 just has higher resolution cubemaps in-game than GTS uses in-game.

I would be curious to know which version of GT sport are taken these pictures look like they have relatively old .. more this circuit of Brands Hatch back to the time ps3 there is new circuits in the game that are more provided in grass and in other details ..
when the problem of antialisang and other solutions, on a beautiful Oled screen like mine and with a Pro, the game is very well defined

The big problem in doing a comparo is finding cars and tracks that all three share without picking an unfavorable one for one game. I think Brands Hatch is pretty rough as far as the tracks available in every one of these games so I think it's pretty fair to use. The same goes for car selection when comparing. It's pretty evident despite T10's bullshit on the subject, claiming that everything was new from the ground up in FM5, car models that appeared as far back as the first game have been updated with the same modeling errors throughout the series. Some have been replaced, but when doing model comparisons it's sometimes hard for people not to cry fowl when it seems these are the ones chosen, and not one of the recent, more accurate and detailed models. Compare an R32 Skyline to a newer Porsche model in Horizon 4, they are in a different league, which is the price you pay for massive outsourced car counts and a 2-year dev cycle. Again, the trick is finding a car that's in each game to compare. The smaller car selections in PCars2, AC and GTS make this hard to do without appearing biased. I can pull out all the stops and make all the disclaimers I want, but someone is going to see me making fun of a game they like and call me a fanboy.

Being a fucking nerd is tough business .

Shot for shot I'm going to say even Forza 7 looks better, from a gameplay perspective what you see simply looks better.

I'm not big on the nitty gritty let's zoom in 400% shit, it should be about what represents focal perceptibility and that as the presentation as you play the game and frankly GT Sport falls short, a lot.

The lighting model is slightly better, but that's about it, everything else for the most part looks worse. I mean they do some things differently which are more horizontal design decisions and one is not better than the other but the overall appearance of GT Sport just isn't up to snuff.

The trees in all the track-based racers are garbage, but Forza 7's garbage trees are about the garbage-est trees out there right now. They aren't static though, which is worth noting, they do move in the breeze. I think AC easily beats it for worst trees.

I hope you don't mind me highjacking your GT shots. I thought it would be fun to throw up the same track from all the most recent track-based sim/semi-sim games I have. I'm missing AC Competizione, so maybe I'll add it later as it is a step up from AC.

I should note again, I'm using a PC, but I shut off Reshade for my PC2 and AC shots here. With them on it's really not a fair comparison (though anyone can apply them to their copy of the game in about 10 minutes) as it adds shadow effects, color correction, and adds several lighting effects that aren't in the original game. I threw in Grid Autosport because it never got any love, it's actually pretty good and I really liked it. Unfortunately it has a small garage and the Corvette is not in it, so here's a Mustang!

Now obviously the sun's position is off in each shot so keep that in mind. Forza doesn't let you pick the exact time of day. I could have kept going back and trying to line it up in PC2 but fuck it, even I don't have that kind of time. Another thing I didn't think of is that when you do testing in PC2 the stands are empty. The crowds are handled about the same as the others, poorly. Lots of paper people with a sprinkle of polygonal people that appear to have been animated by a blind man. Forza has an added effect where the people bounce up and down to simulate movement which works well enough if you aren't looking too hard. GTS has the most "real" people in the crowds, polygonal nightmare people out of a Tim Burton movie.

Gran Turismo Sport

Forza Motorsport 7

Project Cars 2

Assetto Corsa

Grid Autosport

GTS - Terrible shadows, but better shading on the tail pipes than all but AC. Bad aliasing, muddy track surface and ground textures, low car poly count in-game (look at the hard angles around the tail lights) and the interior has been reduded to a fuzzy mess. For a game with no damage modeling, they could have done better in-game. Paint in GTS can often look too soft, as is the case here, it almost looks like a satin finish paint. Track lighting is very nice though.

FM7 - Very high resolution textures for the ground but poor transition from track to ground textures. Grass is better than GTS, but no occlusion shadows make it hard to even see. Glossier paint showing better metallic effects and clearly more fidelity than the others despite having a limited damage model on the cars. Poor clear plastic shaders make the tail lamps look like shit. The car model is probably the highest poly count of the bunch despite forgetting to put the damned Corvette logo on the car. The lighting in this shot is also very nice.

PC2 - Best track surface and ground detail of the three. Best reflections. The track edge is actually a modeled drop into the dirt. The car models in PCars2 are good but suffer from being too sharp sometimes. It's as if they made the models and didn't put them through any sort of smoothing leaving hard edges where there shouldn't be hard edges. The models have full damage modeling though so they may have had to shave triangles to help with that. The lighting on this track is good with the sun washing things out.

AC - Track and ground detail is somewhere between GTS and PC2. Bless their hearts for trying to make the track edge look like it was modeled (it isn't). Shadows are soft yet clean like in PC2. Very good car model, with good shading on the tail pipes. Definitely the most contrasty of the group which hurts the details on the car model.

Grid - Holds up better than I would have imagined. Best looking grass of the lot, but it fades in really close and the ground textures in general are quite low. The skybox looks nice, but doesn't animate. Car model is actually pretty good too considering like PC2 it comes completely apart in a crash. No piss filter in Autosport, what a great choice.

GTS

FM7

PC2

AC

Grid

GTS -The GTS shot suffers from a couple things working against it, the sun position in the shot is not complementary and the interior shadows are pretty low quality. It may be due to the position of the light source, but the materials all appear too smooth. All C7 A-pillars should have suede on them, but the pillars appear completely smooth, almost too soft. Interior model is the best of the group but the guy hold the wheel like he's headed out for tea.

FM7 - The shadows are better quality. The interior differs from the other two, this is the C7 Z06 with the alcantara package which also adds more CF parts like the dash bezel which is why the steering wheel has a more pronounced texture. The textures are a bit too pronouced, the pillars look like they've been sprayed with Rhino Liner. The metalling part of the steering wheel looks too dark. Of the three it's by far the worst modeled and the guy holds the wheel like a fucking crab.

PC2 - This has the best shadows of them all, materials are not overdone, but are clearly pronounced and look the best of what's here. The reflections on the exterior parts are the best of the lot. The model is not quite as geed as in GTS, but this is the only driver who knows how to hold a damned steering wheel. Missing in action: Windscreen reflections.

AC - Shadows are clean. Interior materials look good, much like PC2 the textures are well defined but not harsh. Exterior parts like the wing mirror look off. The pillar vent is missing which I cannot unsee. This guy holds the wheel alright, but his right hand is clipping so I hate it.

Grid - They jam the camera into the track model. It looks like complete shit.

GTS

FM7

PC2

AC

Grid

GTS - Bad aliasing, the trees look bad, though the shadowing on them looks great. Textures are mostly low quality. Grass looks worse than the previous image somehow. The car interior is fuzzy looking. Low poly count is even more apparent in this shot.

FM7 - The lighting in this shot looks better than the others, and the tree textures are pretty good. Unfortunately they are still paper trees so there are no shadows to give the trees any sense of depth. Trackside objects and detail look nice with with good use of ambient occlusion. Grass is still hard to see without the same effect. In-game model is the best of the three despite the missing Corvette logo and shitty looking tail lights.

PC2 - Best track and off-track detail in this shot, trees are probably actually decent, but they used one model a thousand times which in the end makes it look worse than it is.

AC - Easily the worst trees in this group. They are offensively awful. Track and surface textures look nice. Trackside detail is low in general, the crowds are a perfeect match for the trees too, just awful.

Grid - Easily the best trees of the entire group. They are all modeled, they all animate fully, and if you look off-track, there are layers upon layers of Forza trees giving a real sense of depth to the woods, not wall of tree textures to be seen. The off-track detail is innacurate in many places, but they pieces themselves look good.

GTS

FM7

PC2

AC

Grid

Not really any new points to bring up here that weren't covered above.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

DF tends to guess a lot. That tech video was off on a few things, like their analysis of the reflections. Forza 7 does not use a vector map of previous frame in 3rd person for the cars, only on the hood in one view setting. It uses cubemaps for everything else related to the car. If it used a vector map of frame data as they state, you would see other cars reflected in the paint, which isn't the case in anything but hood view. Forza 7 just has higher resolution cubemaps in-game than GTS uses in-game.



The big problem in doing a comparo is finding cars and tracks that all three share without picking an unfavorable one for one game. I think Brands Hatch is pretty rough as far as the tracks available in every one of these games so I think it's pretty fair to use. The same goes for car selection when comparing. It's pretty evident despite T10's bullshit on the subject, claiming that everything was new from the ground up in FM5, car models that appeared as far back as the first game have been updated with the same modeling errors throughout the series. Some have been replaced, but when doing model comparisons it's sometimes hard for people not to cry fowl when it seems these are the ones chosen, and not one of the recent, more accurate and detailed models. Compare an R32 Skyline to a newer Porsche model in Horizon 4, they are in a different league, which is the price you pay for massive outsourced car counts and a 2-year dev cycle. Again, the trick is finding a car that's in each game to compare. The smaller car selections in PCars2, AC and GTS make this hard to do without appearing biased. I can pull out all the stops and make all the disclaimers I want, but someone is going to see me making fun of a game they like and call me a fanboy.

Being a fucking nerd is tough business .



The trees in all the track-based racers are garbage, but Forza 7's garbage trees are about the garbage-est trees out there right now. They aren't static though, which is worth noting, they do move in the breeze. I think AC easily beats it for worst trees.

I hope you don't mind me highjacking your GT shots. I thought it would be fun to throw up the same track from all the most recent track-based sim/semi-sim games I have. I'm missing AC Competizione, so maybe I'll add it later as it is a step up from AC.

I should note again, I'm using a PC, but I shut off Reshade for my PC2 and AC shots here. With them on it's really not a fair comparison (though anyone can apply them to their copy of the game in about 10 minutes) as it adds shadow effects, color correction, and adds several lighting effects that aren't in the original game. I threw in Grid Autosport because it never got any love, it's actually pretty good and I really liked it. Unfortunately it has a small garage and the Corvette is not in it, so here's a Mustang!

Now obviously the sun's position is off in each shot so keep that in mind. Forza doesn't let you pick the exact time of day. I could have kept going back and trying to line it up in PC2 but fuck it, even I don't have that kind of time. Another thing I didn't think of is that when you do testing in PC2 the stands are empty. The crowds are handled about the same as the others, poorly. Lots of paper people with a sprinkle of polygonal people that appear to have been animated by a blind man. Forza has an added effect where the people bounce up and down to simulate movement which works well enough if you aren't looking too hard. GTS has the most "real" people in the crowds, polygonal nightmare people out of a Tim Burton movie.

Gran Turismo Sport

Forza Motorsport 7

Project Cars 2

Assetto Corsa

Grid Autosport

GTS - Terrible shadows, but better shading on the tail pipes than all but AC. Bad aliasing, muddy track surface and ground textures, low car poly count in-game (look at the hard angles around the tail lights) and the interior has been reduded to a fuzzy mess. For a game with no damage modeling, they could have done better in-game. Paint in GTS can often look too soft, as is the case here, it almost looks like a satin finish paint. Track lighting is very nice though.

FM7 - Very high resolution textures for the ground but poor transition from track to ground textures. Grass is better than GTS, but no occlusion shadows make it hard to even see. Glossier paint showing better metallic effects and clearly more fidelity than the others despite having a limited damage model on the cars. Poor clear plastic shaders make the tail lamps look like shit. The car model is probably the highest poly count of the bunch despite forgetting to put the damned Corvette logo on the car. The lighting in this shot is also very nice.

PC2 - Best track surface and ground detail of the three. Best reflections. The track edge is actually a modeled drop into the dirt. The car models in PCars2 are good but suffer from being too sharp sometimes. It's as if they made the models and didn't put them through any sort of smoothing leaving hard edges where there shouldn't be hard edges. The models have full damage modeling though so they may have had to shave triangles to help with that. The lighting on this track is good with the sun washing things out.

AC - Track and ground detail is somewhere between GTS and PC2. Bless their hearts for trying to make the track edge look like it was modeled (it isn't). Shadows are soft yet clean like in PC2. Very good car model, with good shading on the tail pipes. Definitely the most contrasty of the group which hurts the details on the car model.

Grid - Holds up better than I would have imagined. Best looking grass of the lot, but it fades in really close and the ground textures in general are quite low. The skybox looks nice, but doesn't animate. Car model is actually pretty good too considering like PC2 it comes completely apart in a crash. No piss filter in Autosport, what a great choice.

GTS

FM7

PC2

AC

Grid

GTS -The GTS shot suffers from a couple things working against it, the sun position in the shot is not complementary and the interior shadows are pretty low quality. It may be due to the position of the light source, but the materials all appear too smooth. All C7 A-pillars should have suede on them, but the pillars appear completely smooth, almost too soft. Interior model is the best of the group but the guy hold the wheel like he's headed out for tea.

FM7 - The shadows are better quality. The interior differs from the other two, this is the C7 Z06 with the alcantara package which also adds more CF parts like the dash bezel which is why the steering wheel has a more pronounced texture. The textures are a bit too pronouced, the pillars look like they've been sprayed with Rhino Liner. The metalling part of the steering wheel looks too dark. Of the three it's by far the worst modeled and the guy holds the wheel like a fucking crab.

PC2 - This has the best shadows of them all, materials are not overdone, but are clearly pronounced and look the best of what's here. The reflections on the exterior parts are the best of the lot. The model is not quite as geed as in GTS, but this is the only driver who knows how to hold a damned steering wheel. Missing in action: Windscreen reflections.

AC - Shadows are clean. Interior materials look good, much like PC2 the textures are well defined but not harsh. Exterior parts like the wing mirror look off. The pillar vent is missing which I cannot unsee. This guy holds the wheel alright, but his right hand is clipping so I hate it.

Grid - They jam the camera into the track model. It looks like complete shit.

GTS

FM7

PC2

AC

Grid

GTS - Bad aliasing, the trees look bad, though the shadowing on them looks great. Textures are mostly low quality. Grass looks worse than the previous image somehow. The car interior is fuzzy looking. Low poly count is even more apparent in this shot.

FM7 - The lighting in this shot looks better than the others, and the tree textures are pretty good. Unfortunately they are still paper trees so there are no shadows to give the trees any sense of depth. Trackside objects and detail look nice with with good use of ambient occlusion. Grass is still hard to see without the same effect. In-game model is the best of the three despite the missing Corvette logo and shitty looking tail lights.

PC2 - Best track and off-track detail in this shot, trees are probably actually decent, but they used one model a thousand times which in the end makes it look worse than it is.

AC - Easily the worst trees in this group. They are offensively awful. Track and surface textures look nice. Trackside detail is low in general, the crowds are a perfeect match for the trees too, just awful.

Grid - Easily the best trees of the entire group. They are all modeled, they all animate fully, and if you look off-track, there are layers upon layers of Forza trees giving a real sense of depth to the woods, not wall of tree textures to be seen. The off-track detail is innacurate in many places, but they pieces themselves look good.

GTS

FM7

PC2

AC

Grid

Not really any new points to bring up here that weren't covered above.

Your color is so wildly different than mine in Forza, I'm using an RGB colorspace and it's 10-bit HDR capture so maybe that has something to do with it.

Yours

Mine

 

[scalman]

and depends on what screen you looking at those pics , phone , hdtv , monitor , and then depends what kind of screen you have there , what kind screen phone , what kind hdtv or minitor. So mostly we all have different looking pictures now looking at same picture we have different colors , saturation and such. so what does that means. and oversaturated views are not good for your eyes.
and how cars looks from behind i dont care because i never see it when im playing , just if watching replays. but in game never. so who cares, all i care how cockpits looks.

 

[Inviusx]

I haven't participated in this thread in awhile but I'm surprised that the GTS/F7 comparisions are still a thing. I thought the majority decision here was that GTS stomped F7 but FH4 beat GTS.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I haven't participated in this thread in awhile but I'm surprised that the GTS/F7 comparisions are still a thing. I thought the majority decision here was that GTS stomped F7 but FH4 beat GTS.

What majority?

 

[Turk1993]

Just looking at all those racing games, Forza Horizon 4 is really far above all of them. Pure from raw gameplay, nothing can match Forza Horizon 4 right now even with its open world design. And for the lighting, with 24h day & night cycles with dynamic weather and seasons you get soo much variety and different lighting conditions that the other games can't match. Everything is high quality and it can go with every game toe to toe on every catagory like lighting, shaders, car model, shadows, lod, textures, etc. I mean look at these gameplay shots from my last playtime

 

[BusierDonkey]

Your color is so wildly different than mine in Forza, I'm using an RGB colorspace and it's 10-bit HDR capture so maybe that has something to do with it.

Yours

Mine

It does look a bit desaturated. I just screen grab through game bar, then convert the PNG to a JPEG so I don't fill up my imgur account with large image files. Forza 7 always seemed a bit desaturated to me compared to some games. It might come down to my color settings on my PC though I've never noticed any level of desaturation with my shots from other games. I do think your colors look a lot better than in my shots.

I haven't participated in this thread in awhile but I'm surprised that the GTS/F7 comparisions are still a thing. I thought the majority decision here was that GTS stomped F7 but FH4 beat GTS.

I think in the sim/semi-sim category they all outperform each other in one area or another. I don't think any reasonable people have called a concensus in that category. GT does a lot of things better than the others like unmatched replays/photomode, model accuracy is almost universally better, and the lighting in certain conditions is just about perfect but in-game it lacks texture quality, complexity, resolution, reflections, and some shaders fall flat. Forza 7 has much more detailed in-game models, better texture work throughout and better looking weather effects but it falls on it's face in replays, and there are clear signs all over that the game was rushed out like the hard cut from tarmac to ground textures and the inconsistent track reflections. PC2 has better shadows, overall interiors, and the most varied weather system. AC looks really good at times, but there is a distinct lack of detail throughout the game. Even poor old Grid manages to look better than the others in some cases like a lot of the off-track detail.

I think GTS' major drawback is that it changes so drastically when you actually play. On top of that it's missing things many of the other games have like weather systems. The addition of rain was nice, but it's not the same as seeing a storm roll in, get dumped on, then watch the sun set through the clouds as you finish the race like you can do in PC2, and to a lesser extent in FM7. I can completely understand why someone with a 1080p TV or looking at images on their phone would look at a GT replay or photomode shot and pick it as their favorite, but I'm seeing a lot of things they aren't. I think all things considered Forza 7 looks better more often than the others, especially while actually playing the game. Not everyone prioritizes the same things, hence the debate.

Just looking at all those racing games, Forza Horizon 4 is really far above all of them. Pure from raw gameplay, nothing can match Forza Horizon 4 right now even with its open world design. And for the lighting, with 24h day & night cycles with dynamic weather and seasons you get soo much variety and different lighting conditions that the other games can't match. Everything is high quality and it can go with every game toe to toe on every catagory like lighting, shaders, car model, shadows, lod, textures, etc. I mean look at these gameplay shots from my last playtime

I don't disagree, I could fill an album a day with just gameplay images from Horizon 4.

If I toss Horizon 4 into the mix I would pick it in just about every category, especially in-game. It's not even close to me. Between the weather systems over different seasons and the 24 hour clock, the dynamic skybox, the fully modeled and animated environments, vastly improved shaders, fully animated cubemaps for reflections and a really well executed lighting setup it doesn't fall short in many areas. The fact that it allows you to literally go anywhere on the map, drive right up to anything you want, and it still holds together says a lot.

I just wanted to compare the sim/semi sims where there's a bit more room for debate Grid will be the last new big racer we get for a while so there won't be much here to discuss until either GT7, FM8, PC3, or FH5 come out unless GTS gets another major update that fixes a lot of it's gameplay shortcomings. Either way we're probably looking at a year before we all start really butting heads again.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Codemasters GRID Autosport (2014) vs Code"masters" GRID (2019):

Race Driver GRID (2008) vs GRID Autosport (2014) vs GRID (2019)

 

[Three]

and in GTS in cloudy days on rain all reflections just gone from cars as they become kinda matt color , no problem on huge open world in Horizon 4 though

The fact that it is open world has little bearing on reflections. It's the fact that FH4 is aiming for 30fps whereas GTS is aiming for 60fps. That is the only reason. I don't actually see this effect though anyhow. Reflections just tend to be less visible in dark cloudy days because there is less light.

 

[Blade2.0]

Shot for shot I'm going to say even Forza 7 looks better, from a gameplay perspective what you see simply looks better.

I'm not big on the nitty gritty let's zoom in 400% shit, it should be about what represents focal perceptibility and that as the presentation as you play the game and frankly GT Sport falls short, a lot.

The lighting model is slightly better, but that's about it, everything else for the most part looks worse. I mean they do some things differently which are more horizontal design decisions and one is not better than the other but the overall appearance of GT Sport just isn't up to snuff.

GT Sport looks better to me here. Don't know what you're trying to prove, lol.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

GT Sport looks better to me here. Don't know what you're trying to prove, lol.

Can you explain why? I can list one way in which it looks marginally better and about ten ways in which Forza does.

Please, take a crack at it.

 

[Windom Earle]

Is this thread still as toxic as it was in old times or are people more civil and unbiased now?

 

[ethomaz]

I like to surf this thread sometimes to see how impressive GTS is.

Keep posting pics

 

[Hobbygaming]

In stills, it might be a different story but in motion, no racer beats the realistic visuals in Driveclub

 

[Windom Earle]

Drive Club got murdered by Sony though

 

[Hobbygaming]

Drive Club got murdered by Sony though

Driveclub can still be played offline, I've never raced online in DC

 

[Gingen]

As usual: FM7 screenshots from PC at ultra settings from the best angles and locations possible VS GTS cherry picking images from PS4 standard, or PS4 PRO setted in framerate mode, selecting only the worst tracks, the worst angles, the worst car models (often with lod bugs like that subaru), the worst graphically time of day (12 o'clock) and with the car stuck in the middle of the track to disable the anti aliasing

this thread is the GT haters international meeting

XBOX FM7 ingame

PS4 GTS ingame

 

[DynamiteCop!]

As usual: FM7 screenshots from PC at ultra settings from the best angles and locations possible VS GTS cherry picking images from PS4 standard, or PS4 PRO setted in framerate mode, selecting only the worst tracks, the worst angles, the worst car models (often with lod bugs like that subaru), the worst graphically time of day (12 o'clock) and with the car stuck in the middle of the track to disable the anti aliasing

this thread is the GT haters international meeting

All my shots are from the X, all are from unadulterated gameplay on both the X and the Pro, all are from identical locations lined up as like mindedly as possible with no cherry picking of any kind.

The fact that you believed those Xbox shots were on PC and that somehow the Pro shots are adulterated or manipulated in some fashion says it all. You are basically admitting GT's visual inferiority.

You're a salt mine.

 

[Gingen]

All my shots are from the X, all are from unadulterated gameplay on both the X and the Pro, all are from identical locations lined up as like mindedly as possible with no cherry picking of any kind.

The fact that you believed those Xbox shots were on PC and that somehow the Pro shots are adulterated or manipulated in some fashion says it all. You are basically admitting GT's visual inferiority.

You're a salt mine.

I was talking about the Hage kamo comparisons, your comparisons are from one X (a 500$ console with 2TF and 4GB of ram more than a PS4 Pro) but all the other tricks to misrepresent GTS are present in your posts too


Luckily PS5 is getting closer so many trolls here will have to disappear