EGOMON
Member
wow nice save bravo
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
wow nice save bravo
Scaramanger
Member
Yeah that is a great bit of driving! Looks so real in those little GIFs too!
Summer Haze
Banned
It is sad I know...
eso76
Member
I'll just leave this here:
http://youtu.be/X01xbp8mcu8
it's Pcars vs Forza 5, this was just posted a few days ago in the PCARS thread
http://youtu.be/X01xbp8mcu8
it's Pcars vs Forza 5, this was just posted a few days ago in the PCARS thread
There's nothing more satisfying than hitting an apex perfectly, regardless of the situation.
Both games have terrible lighting, Pcars wins it but damn they're closer than I imagined :/
From a "run on a high end pc" point of view Pcars looks pretty bad considering.
Yeah, to make it look awesome they should reduce the framerate to 30fps, replace the physics engine with a crappy one and make it an arcade racer instead.
I'll admit, I laughed.
When I see people lamenting the presentation in other racers like that, I think about how silly it sounds when people lay into things like iRacing for "looking like crap," totally overlooking its underlying focus. I mean this is a thread about visuals, so it's not off-base, but it's hard to separate the two when you're deep into the genre. Game development always means targeted priorities.
If that actually was your opinion, then yea we would have to actually lol.
It's a pretty extreme example, but let's think of it another way. Someone tells you in all serious that they think Queen Elizabeth II is more attractive than Beyonce. Now, much like Pole Position example, this is something I'd probably never expect to actually hear as someone's legitimate opinion in reality, and in both cases I'd imagine this person must be pretty damn old, heh. Regardless though it is a valid opinion if that's what they truly think, as what looks pleasing to someone simply isn't ever universally factual. You can throw out whatever criteria you want in regards to what you think makes someone look better (symmetry, ratios, age, hair length, complexion, whatever), but you can't ever make your choice more beautiful in their eyes. The only way they'd ever actually be wrong, is if they tried to claim that your preference was objectively wrong...
Now then, let's consider Horizon instead of Pole Position. There's nowhere near the same sort of disparity between the two now, and in many ways they're pretty comparable. In this case we'll use Rihanna. Now the preference is not only impossible to completely invalidate, but also not that surprising a preference to come across.
For a gaming example, I think Forza Horizon and Driveclub map pretty well to Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 around the time of their release. Doom 3 was pretty much setting the standards for future tech that would become more common over the course of the next generation. Half-Life 2 on the other hand was pretty much the final stages of the previous generations technical implementations. There were plenty of people that thought Half-Life 2 looked better than Doom 3, even though most of what it was doing in terms of lightning and so on was completely faked and less convincing, or that geometry-wise it was a lot easier to point at a wall and identify it as a flat surface compared to Doom 3's heavy use of bump-mapping. At the end of the day Half-Life 2's sense of scale, the better clarity of textures, and just its overall art-direction made up for whatever technical shortcomings it had in comparison.
Your criteria for what "looks better" is apparently simply what looks more realistic, whilst for many others that isn't necessarily the case. It's extremely common to see deliberate choices all around us to make something look less realistic even when absolute realism would be trivial (postcards, Hollywood, food menus, etc) because often you'll find that the result is more visually appealing to many people, and I'd comfortably describe Horizon 2's graphical aims deliberately leaning far more towards "moving postcard" than reality, and I like it for that. Combined with the larger sense of scale, better image quality, clearer details, better motion blur etc... I have no problems saying that I think Horizon 2 looks nicer then Driveclub (disclaimer: to me, personally) in most cases where it isn't raining. I've previously posted some of my reasoning for this here. What I wouldn't claim however, is that FH2 is more technically advanced.
I think it's pretty funny actually, as we often complain so much about games all going for a similar realistic or gritty style, yet the second we stick cars in, anything other than absolute realism is suddenly considered to be a failing.
Scaramanger
Member
Very nicely explained Synth!
What a copout. There is no excuse for bad visuals period. And to talk of iracing, their physics aren't all that great either (what is the patch number on their tyre model now? 500?, how many years did they work on it before the AC devs blew them away with a years work?). Who cares where their focus is, the graphics programmer is not the one working on the physics anyway I guarantee you that. They are making a mint and instead of putting it into the development of their game they spend it paying already rich drivers to play.
A great looking racer with great physics is very possible (and if pd keep improving the physics model then look out for gt7, better drive train modelling please pd) and it is only because of apologists in the sim racing community that pc racing games have looked so bad for so long. If players like you were complaining 10 years ago instead of making excuses we might have stunning looking pc racers now.
soundscream
Member
There should be a Next Gen racer face off thread, that deals with everything not just graphics. Many of the arguments here vere off from the focus. I would make it but lack the motivation
MemoryHumanity
Member
Hehe, cheers! Manual gears, too ^_^
Thanks for making that GIF for me, Flipswitch
looks amazingicecold1983
Member
There should be a Next Gen racer face off thread, that deals with everything not just graphics. Many of the arguments here vere off from the focus. I would make it but lack the motivation
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=687291
UpUpDownDown
Member
There should be a Next Gen racer face off thread, that deals with everything not just graphics. Many of the arguments here vere off from the focus. I would make it but lack the motivation
That's only because one title is so far above the others its pretty much useless comparing till a new driving game comes out.
Neue Regel
Banned
Low budgets? Because most PC sims sure have those.
Compared to what? AC is better at some things and worse at others. The whole iceracer thing was a valid criticism early on but it's much improved now across the board, and you're really criticism them for improving the model over time? Wow.
As has been said, budget/team size has everything to do with this. When one company has more staff in their art department than another company has on their entire team, that's a perfectly reasonable explanation for major differences in visual quality.
Hawk269
Member
This actually makes Forza 5 seem more impressive. I know many don't give the game justice, but this video shows a launch title versus a game that is still not out and running on better (PC) hardware and Forza 5 holds up pretty damn well in this video. In certain areas, I think Forza looks better, obviously shadows are much better on Pcars, but in the end and using this video only, they look pretty close to each other.
Man, project cars sound makes forza sound like a hairdryer. Lol.
It's best to just ignore nasanu when he's talking about simracing on PC.
Particularly in light of the free tracks they've added since launch, and more importantly, on a properly calibrated display, Forza 5 is a great looking title when it comes down to it. Silverstone, Long Beach and Nurburgring are real showcases for that game.
Hawk269
Member
I agree. It does have it's warts (AA), but overall I think Forza 5 is a great looking game. With it being a launch title and using beta dev kits, what they were able to do was pretty amazing. Forza 6 should make things interesting.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
With Forza 5 I find the bloom, glare and rays to look over the top in videos but when I playing they aren't a problem at all and just become part of the atmosphere.
I legitimately can't think of a bigger jump in a series within a generation than from F2 to F3. We can dream, but I'm not counting on it.
Uncharted 1 > Uncharted 2 maybe, Gears 1 > Gears 3 is pretty huge too. In racing games I don't think there's another example.
Yeah, that won't happen. FM3 was insane next to FM2, but there's only so far you can go when you're so close to realism in the first place. I think the best we could hope for with FM6 is that it looks as good as Horizon, but at 60fps.
DirgeExtinction
Member
Reposting what I posted in the OT on Friday.
Taken not too long ago to test that model swapping theory. This was taken in single event race with eleven other cars.
To be honest, I don't see too much of a difference. Apart from the AA from photomode, the only things that pop out to me are the exhaust pipes(is that what they're called?) and the rear lights(though the lights appearning slightly different in photomode I'd attribute to the AA added). Top pic is non-photmode and bottom is. All in all, I think photomode just cleans up the model rather than swaps it.
How the hell does DriveClub look SO good?
It looks better than any racing game out there - even on PC!!
Why the hell does it have to be a PS4 exclusive?!?!
Really need a great racing game on PC - tired of The Crew and other NFS garbage (Rivals looks like a bruised turd compared to DC).
It looks better than any racing game out there - even on PC!!
Why the hell does it have to be a PS4 exclusive?!?!
Really need a great racing game on PC - tired of The Crew and other NFS garbage (Rivals looks like a bruised turd compared to DC).
Because Evo are masters of their craft.
Dictator93
Member
Hey guys,
does DC have shadow on particles?
Similarly, does project cars?
The best way to test would be to go in front of a shadow from a tree and just do spinouts and donuts to see if the dust cloud is shadowed.
does DC have shadow on particles?
Similarly, does project cars?
The best way to test would be to go in front of a shadow from a tree and just do spinouts and donuts to see if the dust cloud is shadowed.
DirgeExtinction
Member
I'll check later today.
Nope they don't. Gran Tourismo and to certain extent, Forza Horizon 2 does. This was brought up earlier, on mobile now otherwise I would've dug up that post.
Neue Regel
Banned
Yeah, GT's smoke is most impressive, it's volumetric, receives shadows, propagates in a realistic manner and there's tons of it when you really start burning the rubber. No other racing game comes close. I wonder how it'll evolve on PS4.
Yeah. I've tried to see if it's in DC but nope, nothing like these:
While we're talking particle effects, I've yet to see smoke trails left by cars in FH2, DC or PCars having the ability to interact with environment shadows like in GT5/GT6:
The only other games where I've seen a similar effect is MGS4, some parts of Uncharted 3 and Tom Clancy's The Division.
I can't speak for DC o PCars, but the smoke/dirt/particles all appear to be affected by light and shadow in FH2.
Even the tail lights when braking light up the smoke with a red haze.
Love how the dirt billows out in this first one, catching the light and shadows
Ask and you shall recieve, lol.
jesus why does this gif run like complete ass
Oh God, this so very fucking much!
With regards to Forza 6. It seems to me Greenawalt will have nothing to do with anything that takes away a steady,solid 60fps from his game. If that means no weather or night AGAIN, then so be it says Beardawalt.
What are people realistically expecting to happen with Forza 6 in terms of visuals and FPS?
Can they add those features this time around with current Xbone specs?
eso76
Member
While we're talking particle effects, I've yet to see smoke trails left by cars in FH2, DC or PCars having the ability to interact with environment shadows like in GT5/GT6:
we've seen smoke intereacting with environment and dynamic shadows since, but damn, GT is the only game with the proper amount of smoke / dust.
Smoke has its presence here, it's not a bunch of ridiculous looking puffs a few mts apart which fade away in a couple seconds max.
I don't think anyone could question Polyphony's technical achievements regarding GT5/6 compared to the competition.
1440x1080 (40-60fps most of the time)
An unrivalled lighting engine
Day/Night cycles
Dynamic weather, rain and snow.
16 cars on track
The most detailed car models ever seen in a video game (400+ of them at least)
unrivalled smoke effects
All this with a split pool of 256mb + 256mb ram, a crazy assed cpu and a weak as piss gpu.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
I think that it's going to be another beautiful looking game, and a big improvement over the already fine looking FM5. Can they add them? Sure, they were toying with the concept even back in the FM3 days, and the very first game in the series had nighttime racing (without dynamic transitions, however). It's all a matter of priorities, scheduling and development resources. Driveclub also wouldn't have weather had it not been delayed for a year (and a bit more, considering that weather was added in a post-launch patch).
What it will/would look like is another question entirely, but Turn 10 hasn't disappointed me yet, and I'm thankful for their insistence on rock solid frame rates.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Surely no chance of a new engine. It powers 60fps track racers and 30fps open world, it's solid and flexible enough already.
The Forza 2-4 comparison may again be valid, we'll hopefully get the best within their self imposed restrictions, as T10 further optimise it should afford them more elbow room plus whatever freed up resouces the console now has.
CaptainOblivious
Banned
Those textures are from 2004. Gross.
Yep, the volume of smoke GT has it's just amazing
I can't say I've ever seen that volume of smoke from real tires except at New England Dragway's Wednesday night burnout contest on a still night.
I think the best smoke I've seen is still the steam-engine train race in FH2. All the dust/smoke/etc in the game was a huge improvement from what had been done in Forza 5, but seeing it interact with the geometry and lighting (including its own density) was a first for me, even having played GT5/6.
Similar threads
- Poll