Shangounchained
Banned
So apparently the ps2 was capable of realtime raytracing and even more imprssive it could do that without using its cpu.
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Ps2 was capable of realtime raytracing.
- Thread starter Shangounchained
- Start date
- Hardware
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sony has been working on it for quite some time. Polyphony Digital has done many GDC panels on RT from the PS3 with GT as well.
A good indication to which future tech will be utilized in future generation consoles is to pay attention to those GDC panels.
A good indication to which future tech will be utilized in future generation consoles is to pay attention to those GDC panels.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You can use pre-baked or dynamic setups with just ray traced shadows, AO, reflective surfaces, etc..
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polybius80
Member
I think what is happening is that the scene is being rendered into a texture and that texture is being texture mapped onto the sphere is really impresive as this kind of effects consume lot of rendering time as you have to render the scene or part of it 2 or 3 times, because of the amount of work required some games with mirrors or water only mirror part of the scene, more simple versions of the scene or miss certain objects like characters
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PS2 was a king of multipass rendering.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Here is when they showcased 8K/120fps/HDR/RT for GT at GDC this year.
Incredible 8K 120fps Gran Turismo Sport video showcased in Japan - Team VVV
An absolutely gorgeous 8K 120 fps video of Gran Turismo Sport has been recently showcased at the Inter BEE 2018 exhibition in Japan. The Gran Turismo Sport video, which was can only assume is pre-rendered, was shown via Sony’s giant 32×18 foot (or 440 inches if you prefer) crystal LED display...
www.teamvvv.com
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a multicultural team of v
Member
Which is exactly what the PS2 excelled at. The fillrate was insane so I from what I've read a lot of special effects were done by simply rendering the frame a few times. That's why some games from the PS3 gen seemed to have less effects (one thing that sticks out for me is GT4 has that heat blurring effect, but I'm pretty sure 5 and 6 didn't).
polybius80
Member
exactly, ps2 was designed this way as some kind of future proof I remember some comments that mentions it can do 16 times the entire screen
SmokSmog
Member
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I always found it so impressive that while it lacked a few “modern” features and had others not really working well (anisotropic filtering lod calculation, a problem PSP kind of inherited), it could do things other HW could not even dream of doing and would still have a bit of a cold sweat doing for some time.
Try to switch texture, blending mode, primitive type (say from triangle strip to fan or viceversa), and flush your depth buffer... essentially switch render state per object you render and see if the performance does not tank on other GPU’s.
For me PS2 is a bit like The Barbican here in the U.K. (London): it took past problems/bottlenecks (as well as perhaps old approaches to break free of them) and used the best tech it could to solve them with a mix of elegance and brute force/raw strength. In some cases it was forward looking (VU’s for example) and in others it was an evolutionary dead end... but what a swan song it was
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Pretty much any 3D system is capable of real-time raytracing, since it can be implemented via a software solution. I suppose PS2's particle fillrate bandwidth would give it some type of advantage, but aside of that it doesn't have anything in particular that made it capable of ray-tracing and Xbox/Gamecube/Dreamcast incapable of it.
Just for commercial software at the time, it would have been a very dumb idea to implement because you'd have VERY little resources left for actual game assets, logic, AI etc.What would be more interesting is seeing a game with PS2 or PS3/360-quality assets on next-gen systems with ray-tracing. They would likely be able to push full-on ray-tracing in real-time, whereas most next-gen games with next-gen tier assets will be lucky to get partial, selective ray-tracing at most.
Just for commercial software at the time, it would have been a very dumb idea to implement because you'd have VERY little resources left for actual game assets, logic, AI etc.What would be more interesting is seeing a game with PS2 or PS3/360-quality assets on next-gen systems with ray-tracing. They would likely be able to push full-on ray-tracing in real-time, whereas most next-gen games with next-gen tier assets will be lucky to get partial, selective ray-tracing at most.
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That's what I would like to see too.
But rt depends on resolution and it will be pretty hard to sell a 720p cell shaded rt game... DF will count pixels and shit all over it.
Shangounchained
Banned
Gt sport have been experimenting on it, at 8k 120fps i bet the ssd is the real hero behind this
Go tp the 7.30 mark
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Suppose an indie game could go for it, because a mainstream AAA game surely won't. I get mad sometimes thinking about PS3/360 gen because the jump to using HD assets meant less fancy visuals compared to what probably could've truly been done if assets stayed near GC/Xbox/later PS2 quality.
Granted the industry maybe made the right decision as a whole going forward, and it's always tough to choose between framerate and visual fidelity, but it would still be cool to see.
Don't know how much a SSD (even a custom one using persistent RAM) would benefit a process like raytracing which IIRC is a lot more dependent on real-time data calculation than speed of transferring large data assets across a bus. But that does look pretty cool.
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SlashBringingHasher
Banned
PS2 had a lot of vector units, vector units are very good at raytracing
GHG
Gold Member
Yep, you can even do real time Ray tracing in the browser using javascript these days (albeit in a very limited capacity).
GitHub - erichlof/THREE.js-PathTracing-Renderer: Real-time PathTracing with global illumination and progressive rendering, all on top of the Three.js WebGL framework. Click here for Live Demo: https://erichlof.github.io/THREE.js-PathTracing-Renderer/
Real-time PathTracing with global illumination and progressive rendering, all on top of the Three.js WebGL framework. Click here for Live Demo: https://erichlof.github.io/THREE.js-PathTracing-Rende...
github.com
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Hearing about this years down the PS2's life cycle seems weird.
That's just a bunch of assorted demo-scene effects.
Calling a scene consisting of one plane and a sphere "real-time raytracing" is reaaaaally stretching it.
There are many nuances regarding raytracing.
What's the scene complexity? Couple spheres and a plane? Quake 2 poly counts?
What's the resolution? How many rays per pixel, how many GI bounces, etc?
2080 TI can do Quake 2 RTX, with two GI bounces (I think), at 1440p at 60fps.
Curb your enthusiasm.
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a multicultural team of v
Member
Green_Eyes
Member
I remember a Cube (GCN magazine) review of Starfox Adventures admiring the 'ray tracing' in the game; I wonder if it was facts or misused lingo...
LordOfChaos
Member
Any CPU or programmable GPU can ray trace, the question is obviously how many rays it can handle.
Wasn't there some truck game in the PS3 era that used a small amount of ray tracing, also a few titles like Fortnite touch up a few shadows and things like that with a very small amount of it.
The difference with what's coming up is techniques like inferencing and denoising allowing dramatically more of the scene to be ray traced even if hardware power had remained stagnant
I'd be curious to see it, but obviously it had to have ended up substantially worse than the RSX for the last minute swap in.
Wasn't there some truck game in the PS3 era that used a small amount of ray tracing, also a few titles like Fortnite touch up a few shadows and things like that with a very small amount of it.
The difference with what's coming up is techniques like inferencing and denoising allowing dramatically more of the scene to be ray traced even if hardware power had remained stagnant
I'd be curious to see it, but obviously it had to have ended up substantially worse than the RSX for the last minute swap in.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nintendo 64 raytracing at a blazing fast speed:
I'd love to see more old hardware raytracing.
Framrate is on point, maybe if they added a lot of “fog” they can improve it a hair more
In all seriousness, cool stuff. I like seeing these types of tests as well.
thelastword
Banned
The PS2's engineering design was indeed a marvel......It was above other consoles in so many ways.....Thanks to Ken Kutaragi and his beast mode mind.....I always found it so impressive that while it lacked a few “modern” features and had others not really working well (anisotropic filtering lod calculation, a problem PSP kind of inherited), it could do things other HW could not even dream of doing and would still have a bit of a cold sweat doing for some time.
Try to switch texture, blending mode, primitive type (say from triangle strip to fan or viceversa), and flush your depth buffer... essentially switch render state per object you render and see if the performance does not tank on other GPU’s.
For me PS2 is a bit like The Barbican here in the U.K. (London): it took past problems/bottlenecks (as well as perhaps old approaches to break free of them) and used the best tech it could to solve them with a mix of elegance and brute force/raw strength. In some cases it was forward looking (VU’s for example) and in others it was an evolutionary dead end... but what a swan song it was
MrCunningham
Member
Nintendo 64 raytracing at a blazing fast speed
I'd love to see more old hardware raytracing.
The N64 architecture was based on SGI's RealityEngine, which was used in Onyx and Crimson workstations. Early N64 games were prototyped on both workstations. So yeah, the N64 was capable of doing ray tracing just like the SGI workstations were at the time. But it wasn't implemented in a way to run in real time. It was intended for pre-rendered images and videos.
In many ways the PS2 is like the bigger brother on the N64. The PS2 uses a MIPS R5900 CPU, while the N64 uses a MIPS R4300i.
yeah, this is true. It just comes down to how fast the machines can render each frame. Even non-3D specific hardware can do it. This 'Juggler demo' that was developed on an Amiga with 512KB of RAM in 1986 is one of the earliest examples of ray tracing on a desktop PC.
This was rendered at 24 frames per second and each frame consists of 64,000 light rays and took one hour per frame to render.
Here's some examples of ray tracing on an Amiga 500:
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Dr. Claus
Banned
I don't quite get it. What is raytracing and why is it all developers can talk about? Is it actually the game changer they try to portray? To me it just looks like slightly improved lighting/reflections. Does it take a lot of time/effort to get this working as well? I feel like we have long since reached the point of diminishing returns with graphical fidelity. I feel more effort should be placed in focusing on gameplay and game systems - especially if this adds even more time/money to the development of a title.
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DarkestHour
Banned
Ray tracing has been around for quite some time. I remember seeing and old ass ray tracing demo using Link or something where he was all gray. Really wish I remembered where I saw it.
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ArchdukeChocula
Member
It's just a different algorithm for finding where light goes. Computer graphics is typically all about finding clever ways to approximate realistic graphics, but ray tracing is a brute-force "shoot a bunch of rays from the light source, follow them through a reasonable amount of reflections, then use that info to figure out the lighting/shading."
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Who would tell.....
