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RTTP: Sonic the Hedgehog 1 2 3 K on Sega Genesis/Megadrive
- Thread starter Branduil
- Start date
Unknown?
Member
I agree wholeheartedly. Sonic wasn't always 100% speed and that may be something people who started playing Advance 2 might come to think but the beauty of the originals is they had platform heavy stages too.
I kinda agree i played through sonic cd on that sonic collection on gamecube as a kid and liked it but i vastly prefer 1, 2, 3+K.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
The only thing that bugs me about Sonic CD is having to wait for the game to load whenever you time travel. I think they may have addressed that issue with the mobile version, but I usually stick with the original console versions.
Nahhh...
There's no loading in Taxman version, just the time travel animation with Sonic spinning.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I thought so. I think there was an Xbox 360 port? I think that's where I played it.
Pretty much my thoughts. I adored the intro on Sega CD, but the level design and time travel system was awkward and irritating to parse out.
The layouts were more maze-like and lacked a real cohesive flow. Older Sonic games often had multiple tiers or layered stages, but even they had a sensible and visual flow with rare disruptions. CD was nothing but.
One of the first big disappointments of my gaming life. I so wanted to love it too.
Triple Trouble was kind of unique in that it brought brief mid-air spin attack (launching from a spring especially) as well as not completely losing your rings after taking a hit (that last one is IIRC). Also introduced Fang/Nack the Weasel, Knuckles was a level boss, and Metal Sonic came back as a before Eggman boss...
Oh yeah, Sonic had a few powerups from Sonic Chaos make a return. The flying air shoes as well as the Pogo Spring come back. And Tails had a power up thst granted faster flight (for a limited time) too. And you rescue Knuckles from a cage at the end.
You forgot Tails has a submarine!
Tripe Trouble is probably the more content packed and more refined 8-bits Sonic game.
I'd argue that it won't. This is the kind of situation where a lot of adults imagine what kids do an don't like... but you be shocked just how much kids tend to like the modern Sonic (and friends) personality traits that the older fanbase wishes could be purged from history.
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Still one of the best platformers of all time. It's interesting how different Emerald Hill Zone feels from Green Hill, even though they're both tropical island landscapes that set the stage for the rest of the game. Compared to Green Hill, this feels much more "compact"; just compare the size of the loops in each game. The corkscrews are a great addition and building up enough speed to make it through them feels wonderful.
We also see one of the biggest changes from Sonic 1 here, in connecting special stages to the star posts, specifically by touching one while having at least 50 rings. This is great because it encourages exploration, both to acquire more rings and find more star posts. The special stages themselves are pretty cheap, though, and basically require memorization to complete.
Chemical Plant Zone is great of course, both the design and music. This level is absolutely massive, with huge slides and ramps that go far beyond anything in the first game, and there's also a nice variety of paths and secrets.
Not the biggest fan of Aquatic Ruin Zone, the overlapping paths are confusing to look at and navigate, and all of the enemies tend to be the annoying kind that hit you at the most inconvenient time.
I got all of the emeralds early on, which I'm not sure was the best idea- it does tend to cheapen the game a bit when you can just cheese through the latter half of almost every act. Still fun to play as the god-like Super Sonic though, even if it changes the game to more of a time attack than anything else.
Casino Night Zone is a lot of fun, combining Sonic physics with pinball mechanics just makes too much sense(and it works a lot better here than in the fairly dreadful Sonic Spinball), it's easy to waste a bunch of time just shooting Sonic into the slot machines.
The thematic combination of serene alpine hilltops and volcanic chambers in Hill Top Zone is unique, at the very least. Launching yourself halfway across the map with the help of the see saws is always fun. I don't think the Genesis' sound capabilities were up to the task for their musical ambition with this level though.
Mystic Cave Zone is probably one of the weaker levels in this game. So many pits and vines which are somewhat difficult to grab with Sonic's loose jumping mechanics, not to mention that inescapable pit of doom if you make the mistake of trying to rush through this level as Super Sonic.
Oil Ocean is neat conceptually, and has a number of neat gimmicks in it. Fuck those seahorses though.
It's probably the most hated level in the game, but I can't hate Metropolis Zone. Especially since it has the best track in the game. The most common complaint is the enemies, of course, but most of them can be avoided if you know what you're doing. The starfish attacks are extremely predictable, and crab locations are usually really obvious. Mantises are the biggest offender here, and they're definitely annoying, but after a while you can usually guess where one is going to show up. Also, if you're playing well, you should have all the emeralds by this point, so Super Sonic obviously makes the enemies irrelevant- you just have to avoid falling into one of the bottomless pits.
Sky Chase Zone- not much to say here, it's a really short and easy breather before the finale. I guess seeing Tails fly a plane was neat at the time.
Wing Fortress Zone does a good job as the penultimate level in the game, with some fairly challenging do-or-die platforming sections, opportunities for great speed, and one incredibly annoying boss fight.
The final boss fight in Death Egg Zone might be the most challenging in the series. You have no rings, the setup fight with Silver Sonic can be challenging in its own right, and then you need to fight a giant boss with a limited hit box and no margin for error. It's a good thing this game is generous with 1-UPs, I definitely needed all of them as a child. Of course, this time I beat it on the first try, so I guess I have more patience now.
Sonic 2 is still a great game, and it's clear they learned all the right lessons from the first game. There's more rewards and more speed for playing well, but it's no less challenging as a platformer, and the scope and size of the game is truly epic. It's the rare sequel which improves upon its predecessor in every way.
Still one of the best platformers of all time. It's interesting how different Emerald Hill Zone feels from Green Hill, even though they're both tropical island landscapes that set the stage for the rest of the game. Compared to Green Hill, this feels much more "compact"; just compare the size of the loops in each game. The corkscrews are a great addition and building up enough speed to make it through them feels wonderful.
We also see one of the biggest changes from Sonic 1 here, in connecting special stages to the star posts, specifically by touching one while having at least 50 rings. This is great because it encourages exploration, both to acquire more rings and find more star posts. The special stages themselves are pretty cheap, though, and basically require memorization to complete.
Nice
Chemical Plant Zone is great of course, both the design and music. This level is absolutely massive, with huge slides and ramps that go far beyond anything in the first game, and there's also a nice variety of paths and secrets.
Not the biggest fan of Aquatic Ruin Zone, the overlapping paths are confusing to look at and navigate, and all of the enemies tend to be the annoying kind that hit you at the most inconvenient time.
I got all of the emeralds early on, which I'm not sure was the best idea- it does tend to cheapen the game a bit when you can just cheese through the latter half of almost every act. Still fun to play as the god-like Super Sonic though, even if it changes the game to more of a time attack than anything else.
Casino Night Zone is a lot of fun, combining Sonic physics with pinball mechanics just makes too much sense(and it works a lot better here than in the fairly dreadful Sonic Spinball), it's easy to waste a bunch of time just shooting Sonic into the slot machines.
The thematic combination of serene alpine hilltops and volcanic chambers in Hill Top Zone is unique, at the very least. Launching yourself halfway across the map with the help of the see saws is always fun. I don't think the Genesis' sound capabilities were up to the task for their musical ambition with this level though.
Mystic Cave Zone is probably one of the weaker levels in this game. So many pits and vines which are somewhat difficult to grab with Sonic's loose jumping mechanics, not to mention that inescapable pit of doom if you make the mistake of trying to rush through this level as Super Sonic.
Oil Ocean is neat conceptually, and has a number of neat gimmicks in it. Fuck those seahorses though.
It's probably the most hated level in the game, but I can't hate Metropolis Zone. Especially since it has the best track in the game. The most common complaint is the enemies, of course, but most of them can be avoided if you know what you're doing. The starfish attacks are extremely predictable, and crab locations are usually really obvious. Mantises are the biggest offender here, and they're definitely annoying, but after a while you can usually guess where one is going to show up. Also, if you're playing well, you should have all the emeralds by this point, so Super Sonic obviously makes the enemies irrelevant- you just have to avoid falling into one of the bottomless pits.
Sky Chase Zone- not much to say here, it's a really short and easy breather before the finale. I guess seeing Tails fly a plane was neat at the time.
Wing Fortress Zone does a good job as the penultimate level in the game, with some fairly challenging do-or-die platforming sections, opportunities for great speed, and one incredibly annoying boss fight.
The final boss fight in Death Egg Zone might be the most challenging in the series. You have no rings, the setup fight with Silver Sonic can be challenging in its own right, and then you need to fight a giant boss with a limited hit box and no margin for error. It's a good thing this game is generous with 1-UPs, I definitely needed all of them as a child. Of course, this time I beat it on the first try, so I guess I have more patience now.
Sonic 2 is still a great game, and it's clear they learned all the right lessons from the first game. There's more rewards and more speed for playing well, but it's no less challenging as a platformer, and the scope and size of the game is truly epic. It's the rare sequel which improves upon its predecessor in every way.
IDK. Blame Michael Jackson.
Probably the best way to play any of the lock-on games is through Sonic Mega Collection Plus for PS2 and Xbox. (Or the original Sonic Mega Collection on GameCube.)
If it helps, SMC+ is playable on Xbox 360. *shrugs*
Right. Forgot about that. Lol. I played that not too long ago as well. Okay, THAT'S the best way of playing Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
How many of you beat Sonic 2 as Knuckles?
And how long did it take you to figure out how to reliably beat the final boss with him?
The fact that his poor jump attribute carried over to the lock-on game meant that the margin for error for that boss was even that much thinner. It wasn't until I figured out that you could get the boss to land on you during a spin dash in such a way that only he took damage that I could finally beat it, and it takes a lot of patience to do that for 12 hits.
And how long did it take you to figure out how to reliably beat the final boss with him?
The fact that his poor jump attribute carried over to the lock-on game meant that the margin for error for that boss was even that much thinner. It wasn't until I figured out that you could get the boss to land on you during a spin dash in such a way that only he took damage that I could finally beat it, and it takes a lot of patience to do that for 12 hits.
supermarioworldE
Banned
Glad you made it to Sonic 2. While I think S3&K is the better game, 2 might still be my favorite. It's got the perfect length, great level design, and awesome music. It's where the series really started to feel "Epic" imo. Tails, Super Sonic, the added presentation, and The Death Egg expanded the world and made it more fleshed out. But none of those things compare to the greatest gameplay addition of them all: The Spin Dash.
It completely changed the pace of Sonic games moving forward, and doubles as an offensive tool and a quick way to gain speed anytime you want. This is one of the main reasons why it's harder to go back to the first title. It seems so much slower paced.
The only thing Im not a fan of though are the special stages. It's bad enough that the format has been done to death since then, but the stages themselves are absolutely brutal. Slippery control, tedious memorization, and spike balls being thrown at you at a moment's notice. The special stages in CD and S3&K did a better job of testing reflexes and also added exploration.
Still, Sonic 2 as a whole, is a classic.
It completely changed the pace of Sonic games moving forward, and doubles as an offensive tool and a quick way to gain speed anytime you want. This is one of the main reasons why it's harder to go back to the first title. It seems so much slower paced.
The only thing Im not a fan of though are the special stages. It's bad enough that the format has been done to death since then, but the stages themselves are absolutely brutal. Slippery control, tedious memorization, and spike balls being thrown at you at a moment's notice. The special stages in CD and S3&K did a better job of testing reflexes and also added exploration.
Still, Sonic 2 as a whole, is a classic.
A Black Falcon
Member
Sonic 1 is the most important console game release of the 4th generation because of the impact it had on the industry and while some of it may be because I was impressed by the game at the time, I still absolutely believe that the original Sonic the Hedgehog is a really fantastic game! It is my least favorite of the three main Genesis Sonic games (1, 2, and 3&K), but it's still an exceptional game that deserves a very, very high score; it's easily an A+ game in my book. I do like Super Mario World a little bit more than any of the three of them, but the classic Sonic games are awesome too.
Sonic 1 is kind of weird compared to the later games in the series, most notably in the levels like Marble Zone which are slower-paced, but I love that about it. Yeah, the first level of Sonic 1 is incredibly fun, but games need substance as well as fun, and the second level adds substance. I like the puzzles, the challenge, the setting, the slow pace, all of it. Because of Sonic 1, I have always disagreed with the idea that Sonic games need to be fast to be good; the original Sonic shows how both fast AND slow work in Sonic games. After the first game Sega refined the series by emphasizing speed and never again having a level as slow-paced as Marble Zone, but still there are puzzle elements, things to find through exploration, and more in those games so that element of the series wasn't completely lost. Sonic 1 is fantastic and a classic... and yes, the sequels are even better. Each is probably better than the last, too. Sonic 2 is great, and 3&K is quite an accomplishment. Oh yeah, and 2&K is pretty cool too... playing as Knuckles in Sonic 2 is great fun!
Beyond the Genesis games though, there are very few 2d or 2.5d Sonic games that get anywhere near good. I do like the first GG/SMS Sonic game, as it's fun stuff though far from Genesis Sonic in quality, but apart from that they're almost all below average. The other four regular Sonic platformers on the GG are all forgettably below average (the nearly identical titles Chaos and Triple Trouble, and also Blast which really is the same as those two, but with more slowdown), and the brokenly awful GG Sonic 2), I found the NGPC game okay but a bit disappointing, and the GBA games are mediocre and have way too many blind traps that help show how hard good classic Sonic level design is to get right, for example. On the DS, Sonic Rush is another average but probably too hard title, then Rush Adventure seems pretty terrible from what little I played of it. Colors, though, for some reason I kind of like... not sure why. The 2.5d Sonic platformers are not better, either, as the Rivals games are average at best and Sonic 4 tries, but has way too many flaws.
So yeah, 2d Sonic is hard to get right, but the Genesis games still hold up really well and show that it can be done. All three titles (counting 3&K as one combined game) have core similarities, but the formula changes enough each time that they feel quite distinct. All three styles are great, but I really like that they have that variety, it's one of the many great things about the Genesis Sonic games. All three are among the all-time great platformers, the incredible original very much among them.
Sonic 1 is kind of weird compared to the later games in the series, most notably in the levels like Marble Zone which are slower-paced, but I love that about it. Yeah, the first level of Sonic 1 is incredibly fun, but games need substance as well as fun, and the second level adds substance. I like the puzzles, the challenge, the setting, the slow pace, all of it. Because of Sonic 1, I have always disagreed with the idea that Sonic games need to be fast to be good; the original Sonic shows how both fast AND slow work in Sonic games. After the first game Sega refined the series by emphasizing speed and never again having a level as slow-paced as Marble Zone, but still there are puzzle elements, things to find through exploration, and more in those games so that element of the series wasn't completely lost. Sonic 1 is fantastic and a classic... and yes, the sequels are even better. Each is probably better than the last, too. Sonic 2 is great, and 3&K is quite an accomplishment. Oh yeah, and 2&K is pretty cool too... playing as Knuckles in Sonic 2 is great fun!
Beyond the Genesis games though, there are very few 2d or 2.5d Sonic games that get anywhere near good. I do like the first GG/SMS Sonic game, as it's fun stuff though far from Genesis Sonic in quality, but apart from that they're almost all below average. The other four regular Sonic platformers on the GG are all forgettably below average (the nearly identical titles Chaos and Triple Trouble, and also Blast which really is the same as those two, but with more slowdown), and the brokenly awful GG Sonic 2), I found the NGPC game okay but a bit disappointing, and the GBA games are mediocre and have way too many blind traps that help show how hard good classic Sonic level design is to get right, for example. On the DS, Sonic Rush is another average but probably too hard title, then Rush Adventure seems pretty terrible from what little I played of it. Colors, though, for some reason I kind of like... not sure why. The 2.5d Sonic platformers are not better, either, as the Rivals games are average at best and Sonic 4 tries, but has way too many flaws.
So yeah, 2d Sonic is hard to get right, but the Genesis games still hold up really well and show that it can be done. All three titles (counting 3&K as one combined game) have core similarities, but the formula changes enough each time that they feel quite distinct. All three styles are great, but I really like that they have that variety, it's one of the many great things about the Genesis Sonic games. All three are among the all-time great platformers, the incredible original very much among them.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Sonic Rush was the last Sonic game that I bought.
And I hated it. Hated it so much that I stopped buying Sonic games for 11 years.
In retrospect, I wonder if I was fair to it, if I was hating it because of what it wasn't instead of what it was. But every last bit of it felt like a chore like not even the Game Gear games were, and I wonder how much of that was due to its own shortcomings vs. how much just didn't line-up with my expectations. I was indifferent to the boost gameplay, perplexed that classic play (rolling, etc.) felt awkward, and outright raged at the frequency of bottomless pits. Even the music was grating to me, despite me being a pretty big JSR fan, and that's a rare experience for me in a Sonic game. Even the shittiest levels in some of the classic games at least have a slick tune to hum that keeps you from pulling your hair out; in Rush, pretty much my only motivation to keep pushing forward at the tail end of the game was to trade out the current level BGM for a new one that I hoped was more tolerable.
And I hated it. Hated it so much that I stopped buying Sonic games for 11 years.
In retrospect, I wonder if I was fair to it, if I was hating it because of what it wasn't instead of what it was. But every last bit of it felt like a chore like not even the Game Gear games were, and I wonder how much of that was due to its own shortcomings vs. how much just didn't line-up with my expectations. I was indifferent to the boost gameplay, perplexed that classic play (rolling, etc.) felt awkward, and outright raged at the frequency of bottomless pits. Even the music was grating to me, despite me being a pretty big JSR fan, and that's a rare experience for me in a Sonic game. Even the shittiest levels in some of the classic games at least have a slick tune to hum that keeps you from pulling your hair out; in Rush, pretty much my only motivation to keep pushing forward at the tail end of the game was to trade out the current level BGM for a new one that I hoped was more tolerable.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
A Black Falcon, you are the best poster on these forums. Great post.
Edit: Sixfortyfive, you're pretty O-K, too.
Edit: Sixfortyfive, you're pretty O-K, too.
Sonic the Hedgehog 3
It's time for the Sonic game that's only half a game! Sonic 3 is ambitious in ways few other platformers were at the time, so much so they split the game up and released the first half separately. It pushes the visuals of the Sonic series to new heights, and the music(with uncredited contributions from Michael Jackson) isn't to be missed.
The game begins on Angel Island, and right away we see the bigger focus on narrative, as Sonic lands on the island after the events of Sonic 3, when suddenly Knuckles takes the chaos emeralds from him. There's no dialogue in the game, but plenty of cut scenes which connect the gaps between zones and events. The levels in this game are also massive, some of them pushing the 10-minute allotment to the limit. Angel Island Zone also introduces us to Act 1 mini-bosses, the first of which torches the island and dramatically alters the scenery of the zone. Overall it's an enjoyable introduction level, but it has a lot more stops and starts than previous first levels. We also see our first giant golden rings, introducing us to the BLUE SPHERES, the most well-known of the Sonic special stages, which are less unfair than previous special stages, while still being quite challenging.
Hydrocity Zone is the best water zone in the series, with dizzying water slides, chutes, and a gorgeous backdrop. It uses the same drowning mechanics the series has had from the beginning, but thanks to the water shield, and numerous sections above water, you'll rarely face the same panic as in Labyrinth Zone. It also lacks the omnipresent swinging spikeballs that made that level so annoying.
The next level, Marble Garden Zone, is one of the largest in the series. The second act in particular is quite easy to get a Time Over in, if you're not careful. It features a variety of creative mechanics, like the spinning tops and transforming earth, and the boss fight is one of the more inventive among the Genesis games, although it's also a bit annoying trying to figure out how to not hurt yourself. I feel like it's just a bit too long, though.
Carnival Night Zone is pretty okay. It has some neat pinball stuff, but I don't think it's quite as good as Casino Night from the previous game. It's also another zone with an extremely long Act 2. I actually don't think I got stuck on the infamous barrel for nearly as long as most people, I seem to remember figuring it out fairly quickly.
IceCap zone features one of the longer unplayable cutscenes to open a 2D Sonic game, and literally gifts you 40 rings to startoff with. I'm not a big fan of the first act, but the second act is a lot more fun, especially if you can climb to higher routes.
The final zone of this game, Launch Base, is one of the best in the series. A great mix of challenging platforming, gimmicks, and speed-building ramps, with the gorgeous background art of the Death Egg taking center stage in the first act(I think this is the first time we actually get a clear view of it in the games?). The second act is surprisingly easy for the final level in a Sonic game, but that makes sense since it wasn't originally supposed to be the final level.
Overall, while Sonic 3 is still a great game, it's quite clear that it's not a complete game. The acts are massive, yes, but it's still significantly shorter than Sonic 2, with less zones and less of a climax. It's also quite easy, which, again, isn't surprising, since it's just the first half of the full game. The only real difficulty spikes are the final "Big Arm" boss and maybe the barrel in Carnival Night Zone.
It's time for the Sonic game that's only half a game! Sonic 3 is ambitious in ways few other platformers were at the time, so much so they split the game up and released the first half separately. It pushes the visuals of the Sonic series to new heights, and the music(with uncredited contributions from Michael Jackson) isn't to be missed.
The game begins on Angel Island, and right away we see the bigger focus on narrative, as Sonic lands on the island after the events of Sonic 3, when suddenly Knuckles takes the chaos emeralds from him. There's no dialogue in the game, but plenty of cut scenes which connect the gaps between zones and events. The levels in this game are also massive, some of them pushing the 10-minute allotment to the limit. Angel Island Zone also introduces us to Act 1 mini-bosses, the first of which torches the island and dramatically alters the scenery of the zone. Overall it's an enjoyable introduction level, but it has a lot more stops and starts than previous first levels. We also see our first giant golden rings, introducing us to the BLUE SPHERES, the most well-known of the Sonic special stages, which are less unfair than previous special stages, while still being quite challenging.
Hydrossity zone
Hydrocity Zone is the best water zone in the series, with dizzying water slides, chutes, and a gorgeous backdrop. It uses the same drowning mechanics the series has had from the beginning, but thanks to the water shield, and numerous sections above water, you'll rarely face the same panic as in Labyrinth Zone. It also lacks the omnipresent swinging spikeballs that made that level so annoying.
The next level, Marble Garden Zone, is one of the largest in the series. The second act in particular is quite easy to get a Time Over in, if you're not careful. It features a variety of creative mechanics, like the spinning tops and transforming earth, and the boss fight is one of the more inventive among the Genesis games, although it's also a bit annoying trying to figure out how to not hurt yourself. I feel like it's just a bit too long, though.
Carnival Night Zone is pretty okay. It has some neat pinball stuff, but I don't think it's quite as good as Casino Night from the previous game. It's also another zone with an extremely long Act 2. I actually don't think I got stuck on the infamous barrel for nearly as long as most people, I seem to remember figuring it out fairly quickly.
Sonic would never be caught dead doing something as uncool as skiiing. Only the most radical of all '90s sports, SNOWBOARDING, will do.
IceCap zone features one of the longer unplayable cutscenes to open a 2D Sonic game, and literally gifts you 40 rings to startoff with. I'm not a big fan of the first act, but the second act is a lot more fun, especially if you can climb to higher routes.
One of the many incredible backdrops in the game.
The final zone of this game, Launch Base, is one of the best in the series. A great mix of challenging platforming, gimmicks, and speed-building ramps, with the gorgeous background art of the Death Egg taking center stage in the first act(I think this is the first time we actually get a clear view of it in the games?). The second act is surprisingly easy for the final level in a Sonic game, but that makes sense since it wasn't originally supposed to be the final level.
As an aside, I fucking hated the lengthy cutscene before the final boss fight as a child. Go faster Sonic, before my Super Sonic powers run out!
Overall, while Sonic 3 is still a great game, it's quite clear that it's not a complete game. The acts are massive, yes, but it's still significantly shorter than Sonic 2, with less zones and less of a climax. It's also quite easy, which, again, isn't surprising, since it's just the first half of the full game. The only real difficulty spikes are the final "Big Arm" boss and maybe the barrel in Carnival Night Zone.
Yeah I remember as a kid finishing Sonic 3 and feeling like "that's it"?
It was really short for a standalone game, although to be fair I feel like Sonic 2 is a tad too long, or more than it drags (partially because the worst stages are at the second half of the game). S3&K may be as longer, but it has better pacing because the last levels are stronger.
It was really short for a standalone game, although to be fair I feel like Sonic 2 is a tad too long, or more than it drags (partially because the worst stages are at the second half of the game). S3&K may be as longer, but it has better pacing because the last levels are stronger.
IrishNinja
Member
sonic 3+k = GOAT
anyone who tells you classic sonic was never good, you slap em in the mouf for historical posterity
anyone who tells you classic sonic was never good, you slap em in the mouf for historical posterity
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Time has been kind to S3&K, but I'm pretty sure that Sonic 3 was widely considered to be a disappointment upon release, as for 10 months we lived in a world where that game existed but S&K did not. Having to shell out another $80 in 1994 USD for the second half of the game at a later date would have made for some really interesting forum threads if the internet had been a bigger thing at the time.
As a kid, it was weird to go from having a very complete game in sonic CD three months prior to Sonic 3 which, even then, felt so short
t_wilson01
Member
You're not the only one. What I liked the most about those games was being able to explore every corner of the maps. If anything, I would have removed the timer. The music is still fantastic.
Ah, S3 + K. Probably the defining game of my growing up.
I spent countless hours playing that game on my windows 97 PC. That version had it's music in MIDI format so some of the stage themes sounded a little different (or in some cases, much different) than their genesis counterparts. Some stages were just as good though if not better.
Two times while playing S3+K my mind was blown as a child. Once when I realized you could even change characters (Yes it took me a quite a while to realize that), and when I very unexpectedly unlocked the real final boss after beating the game with Hyper Sonic.
I'm confident Mania will be the best game since that one.
I spent countless hours playing that game on my windows 97 PC. That version had it's music in MIDI format so some of the stage themes sounded a little different (or in some cases, much different) than their genesis counterparts. Some stages were just as good though if not better.
Two times while playing S3+K my mind was blown as a child. Once when I realized you could even change characters (Yes it took me a quite a while to realize that), and when I very unexpectedly unlocked the real final boss after beating the game with Hyper Sonic.
I'm confident Mania will be the best game since that one.
Conrad Link
Member
Despite growing up on the old Sonic games I could never played much more than a few min of Sonic CD in the old days.
I just, could never feel a connection to it, the level design wasn't fun and the time travel thing always confused me and I hated the fact that you wouldn't really get to experience each level (like each different zone's time etc) PROPERLY from start to finish in a single playthrough.
BUT
Just in the last few months in the lead up to Sonic Mania I've played through many 2D Sonics again and made it a point to finally sit down and play Sonic CD (BC on Xbox One!) properly! Overall I really loved the music and the graphics, the game has a lot of character and charm to it, it's really pretty and I really liked that! But the level design still just feels all over the place, just not as fun to play as the other classics IMO.
Also I think a cooler way of doing the different time thing would have been 3 stages to a zone and it's past, present and future. That way I experience all the different stage visuals and stuff naturally.
But anyway, I now have a much higher appreciation of Sonic CD than I did before, presentation wise at least. There are so many nice touches to how the game looks and sounds. But actual game wise I'd still rather play the others.
I just, could never feel a connection to it, the level design wasn't fun and the time travel thing always confused me and I hated the fact that you wouldn't really get to experience each level (like each different zone's time etc) PROPERLY from start to finish in a single playthrough.
BUT
Just in the last few months in the lead up to Sonic Mania I've played through many 2D Sonics again and made it a point to finally sit down and play Sonic CD (BC on Xbox One!) properly! Overall I really loved the music and the graphics, the game has a lot of character and charm to it, it's really pretty and I really liked that! But the level design still just feels all over the place, just not as fun to play as the other classics IMO.
Also I think a cooler way of doing the different time thing would have been 3 stages to a zone and it's past, present and future. That way I experience all the different stage visuals and stuff naturally.
But anyway, I now have a much higher appreciation of Sonic CD than I did before, presentation wise at least. There are so many nice touches to how the game looks and sounds. But actual game wise I'd still rather play the others.
Fifty rings if you know what you're doing.
A Black Falcon
Member
I'd say you were being very fair to Rush, myself, when you disliked it. Dimps made the NGPC, GBA, and DS Sonic games, and worked on the Sonic 4 games as well. All nine of their Sonic platformers games have some core similarities that make them far worse than the original Genesis games, most notably what you reference here -- the awful level designs full of blind spike traps, random bottomless pits, and such. Some of their later Sonic games (Colors DS, Sonic 4 Ep. II, and the 3d game Lost World 3DS) are their best ones, but while those can be fun, they're still far from the level of the Genesis originals. But for their games before that, I've never understood why the GBA Sonic games, and then the Rush games after them, got good reviews at the time, those games are so flawed and aren't any good at all!
So, after six subpar games, why do I like their last three Sonic games a bit more? Well, Colors DS is, I think, easier than most Dimps Sonic games before it. That helps that one a bit, and it actually can be fun (at least in the earlier levels). Sonic 4 Ep. II is better than its predecessor. And Lost World 3DS is a good 3d platformer; it has a bit of jank, sure, but I like it. I like the Wii U/PC Lost World game as well, and the 3DS game is similar but with different levels and stereoscopic 3d.
While I've never liked the "you can run out of air and die" system, most of Labyrinth Zone is fine. I only dislike the bossfight, that long vertical corridor is frustrating! I've died there so many times...
While there are some slower-paced bits here and there in the later Genesis games, it is too bad that Sonic went all-in on speed and almost entirely dropped the slower-paced elements from the first game. They're great fun and I don't like those parts of the game less than the fast ones.
Thanks. The original Sonic the Hedgehog is such an awesome game, and it's kind of under-rated now since so many people criticize it because it's not as fast as the later games...
Nocturnowl
Member
This thread prompted me to run through Sonic CD PS3 version.
A mere 4 time stones and I only made a good future in Stardust Speedway, I still dig the unique style of boss encounters in this game and the overall aesthetics.
Then something came over me, just above CD in the folder of games was Sonic 4 and S4 episode 2, I then had the uncontrollable urge to disgust myself and play episode metal of Sonic 4.
Holy shit, the level design of the modified bootleg metropolis zone they have Metal Sonic go through is actually hilarious in just how shitty it is. Of course this is before we even get to the craptacular physics.
I'm going off topic with these titles here but funny thing I'd forgotten is how they tried to tie Sonic 4 into Sonic CD canonically, no wonder CD doesn't get to feature on Mania's elevator panel, it must be a precaution.
A mere 4 time stones and I only made a good future in Stardust Speedway, I still dig the unique style of boss encounters in this game and the overall aesthetics.
Then something came over me, just above CD in the folder of games was Sonic 4 and S4 episode 2, I then had the uncontrollable urge to disgust myself and play episode metal of Sonic 4.
Holy shit, the level design of the modified bootleg metropolis zone they have Metal Sonic go through is actually hilarious in just how shitty it is. Of course this is before we even get to the craptacular physics.
I'm going off topic with these titles here but funny thing I'd forgotten is how they tried to tie Sonic 4 into Sonic CD canonically, no wonder CD doesn't get to feature on Mania's elevator panel, it must be a precaution.
Caffeine
Gold Member
I really hated this zone lol I think its my least favorite level of all time.
They're ports yeah, they're not as perfect as Taxman versions though.
Sonic CD's level design is a bit misunderstood. The focus of the game is very different than the others. I agree it's not as strong as the design in 2 and 3, but S&K had a fair amount of garbage levels that don't hold up.
I used to joke that the honest title for S&K was "Fuck Sandopolis Zone, Let's Play Something Else."
S&K is kind of the original "standalone expansion." But like you said, it was quite full price and not really billed as such.
It felt like outtakes of Sonic 3 that didn't get finished in time (which is pretty much what it was), but nothing in there was as strong as what was in Sonic 3.
Also the number of Zones in Sonic 3 was probably determined by cart space as much as dev time.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Y'all putting the S3 half of that game over the S&K half are tripping.
The last ~25% of that game is what saves it from being a disappointment for me. The final boss gauntlet in particular was wonderful. Like the main reason why I prefer Sonic 1 is that I can't just sleepwalk through it like I can with S3&K.
I feel like the biggest casualty of the split game is that the difficulty curve is all fucked up. Launch Base is way too easy for a final level.
The last ~25% of that game is what saves it from being a disappointment for me. The final boss gauntlet in particular was wonderful. Like the main reason why I prefer Sonic 1 is that I can't just sleepwalk through it like I can with S3&K.
I feel like the biggest casualty of the split game is that the difficulty curve is all fucked up. Launch Base is way too easy for a final level.
Diablohead
Member
A lot of people don't realise you can skip the green screen transition animation in the original game, the only loading is the black screen for a second or two, the rest can be skipped to some degree (it still fades in and out)
Diablohead
Member
The level select for S3 alone shows the true layout if I remember right.
But how can a Saturn port be worse than the original? The Saturn was the 2D console?
It's not the Castlevania SotN situation where they tried to pull off a 3d wannabe on the Saturn.
That's where you land after crashing the Death Egg I guess.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I always like the P2 version of Emerald Hill Zone's music
It's also the only 2P song, imo, that actually sounds like it belongs on the stage and wasn't just taken from a cut stage, even if it was (from Wood Zone I believe?).
It's weird how most fan remixes of Hill Top Zone's music use trumpets or a sax for some reason, when it's pretty clearly trying to be a harmonica, just that the Genesis really couldn't handle it.
This is a great remake, and the sax works, but if someone is going to make a proper "remake" of the sound, it should be with the original intended instrument.
Flying Battery definitely hits the same highs as Sonic 3. Flying Battery is one of my favorite stages in the entire series.
Dat Act 2 Music
It's also the only 2P song, imo, that actually sounds like it belongs on the stage and wasn't just taken from a cut stage, even if it was (from Wood Zone I believe?).
It's weird how most fan remixes of Hill Top Zone's music use trumpets or a sax for some reason, when it's pretty clearly trying to be a harmonica, just that the Genesis really couldn't handle it.
This is a great remake, and the sax works, but if someone is going to make a proper "remake" of the sound, it should be with the original intended instrument.
Flying Battery definitely hits the same highs as Sonic 3. Flying Battery is one of my favorite stages in the entire series.
Dat Act 2 Music
Theslammer
Member
Love Act 3 of Metropolis. That stage deserved three acts.
PhantomZone
Member
Somic 2 is peak Sonic love for me. Perfect blend of stages, music. Funnily enough the two stages I found troublesome were Oil Ocean 2 and Casino Night 2.... breezed through the rest.
I loved Sonic Generations!
I've owned the Sonic collection in various forms (mega drive, pc multiple times win95-xp, Steam, Nintendo DS.... I've NEVER finished Sonic 3 or Sonic & Knuckles..... I know *hangs head in shame*.
I loved Sonic Generations!
I've owned the Sonic collection in various forms (mega drive, pc multiple times win95-xp, Steam, Nintendo DS.... I've NEVER finished Sonic 3 or Sonic & Knuckles..... I know *hangs head in shame*.
Theslammer
Member
I beat Sonic 2 as Knuckles, but I find Sonic 2 to be the easiest of all the Genesis ones. I think Knuckles actually adds a difficulty that's lot playing as Sonic, especially with the final boss.
I've never found a reliable way to quickly dispose of the final boss, who can be beaten quickly with Sonic. You just have to attack slowly and not chance anything.