martino
Member
ok, let's make this simple to understand Name a game that's coming to Pc and console that will run worse on PC.
in my case, i will wait for a sample of them to judge the situation.
ok, let's make this simple to understand Name a game that's coming to Pc and console that will run worse on PC.
Requirement of Cerny? I could definitely see him being a topper, and his minions being the bottoms, or whatever it's called.Pixels are I/O now? The twisted logic is right on Que.
Now excuse me while I go to get my asshole bleached.
Whoa, whoa, no need to get so upset. I was just providing information as relevant as yours, in a thread titled... “RTX I/O and DirectStorage...“Requirement of Cerny? I could definitely see him being a topper, and his minions being the bottoms, or whatever it's called.
I'm just waiting for games that require this I/O speed right now. Haven't had any hiccups yet on my SSD's for years, and I look forward to better I/O utilization. But for right now, 8K60+fps is definitely better than anything at 1440p~30fps. No one can dispute that, not even Mark himself.
AMD designed PS5? I'm gonna assume you meant to say Sony there. AMD had engineers work with Sony engineers on PS5, and engineers to work with MS engineers on the Series systems.
I don't think what MS and NV are saying is PR; in fact you can see examples of GPUDirectStorage in action right now on Nvidia's channel. They have a series of DG1 computers networked together pulling data from Micron M100 SSDs for NASA data simulations, it's very impressive. General data amounts they were crunching was around 168 GB/s across the cluster of them networked together.
The thing is for something like DirectStorage and the use-cases it's being designed for you need to do lots of testing and certification. That takes time, even if it's been in the works for a very long time. Now DirectStorage itself may not've been in the works for, say, the past 10 years or so, but other R&D projects from other teams at companies like MS and NV have been working on I/O-related things for a long time, of course now is the optimal time for them to deploy that research into consumer-level products at a wider scale and in a way that can be leveraged across a range of hardware.
AMD, again, they've had the Radeon SSG cards since 2017. They might've been the first to market with such a thing AFAIK (dunno about that, have to research more), but it doesn't mean they were the first to deploy research into the field. In fact I think it's probably the opposite. As to say, they probably have lagged behind companies like Nvidia and Microsoft in capitalizing on early-phase R&D research of such technologies. Another way to look at it would be to say that, given the limited deployment of Radeon SSG cards, other companies simply waited until the market and tech were more mature before pushing on it. And at least in MS's case, they wanted something that could be utilized with a variety of different setups, leveraged by GPU manufacturers like NV and AMD, and more.
Hence why we probably only saw AMD out first with such a graphics card doing something something (but not exactly, and not as robustly) as what we're seeing NV deploy in three weeks to the public.
You people seem to have no understanding of how the tech world actually works. DS is set to deploy next year en masse, not 2022. Devs do not have to wait until the new tech is literally available before developing with it in mind, either; they can develop around known and assumed feature support of the standard ahead of time, and port their progress over to the new standard when it is ready.
This is what devs are doing right now for eventual UE5 use; working in UE4, and porting their work over to UE5 once it's available. There's a good deal of portability to I/O systems devs can work with even if it may require rewriting in areas; effectiveness in quick porting comes down to the quality of the software code and the quality of the APIs. The latter isn't much a reason for concern, and the former shouldn't be an issue at least for bigger and modest-sized dev teams.
No one is using NV's work, GPUDirectStorage or DirectStorage as some kind of proxy attack against Sony's achievements with their SSD I/O. However, the fact some of you keep constantly drawing this comparison of your own volition, shows a lot of insecurities and worries on your end. It's a talking point you're using as a power grab and it's starting to look extremely desperate. There is room for more than one excellent next-gen I/O solution, even if that's among - gasp!! - multiple hardware vendors!
The sooner you realize that and realize that these developments with DirectStorage and GPUDirectStorage absolutely benefit 3rd-parties across the board, the sooner you can realize that this also benefits Sony, and therefore everyone wins. Except maybe Nintendo, but I'm sure they have been planning for something along these lines themselves, which should help them keep pace.
Stop viewing everything through a fanboy prism and you can better appreciate the qualities of a variety of solutions and offerings.
Decompression is the other factor. Hasn’t been such an issue under legacy I/o as that’s slow, but once you start moving so much data at speed - the processing becomes a significant issue. Hence the gpu’s doing the decompressing otherwise you’d need a secondary cpu or other dedicated hardware to deal with it ala the consoles.The data point that interested me on File IO was actually Linus tech o that 27 GBs SSD, it actually performed fast as you would expect OUTside of windows and reasonably better on LInux. Its not the PC, never has been, its MS file system for PC which MS will want something compatible for their boxes.
Imagine all the legacy software and security on millions of APS that run on PC today on win10.
All future games designed around next gen I/o - not just A game. These will either not be possible, or need obvious compromises. For example, the PS5 ratchet and clank game is geared to exploiting the i/o and would not be the same game on last gen secondary storage.ok, let's make this simple to understand Name a game that's coming to Pc and console that will run worse on PC.
ok, let's make this simple to understand Name a game that's coming to Pc and console that will run worse on PC.
Direct api will be needed for UE5 nanite tech, maybe they could create a very large RAM stream pool or just cut down on asset quality, or maybe you insert elevators and doors ?
How often is the pool buffer refreshed?Nanite doesnt need shit beyond a Gen 3 NVMe....the genius of Nanite that everyone seems to be forgetting and literally turning the other way round is the fact that all that geometry "doesnt" need mad bandwidth to deliver and only what is on screen is ever really needed to reside in VRAM.
Would it work on a 5400rpm....nope.
Would a Gen 3 NVMe suffice?...Comfortably
Would a Gen 4 NVMe suffice?....multiple times over with a more powerful GPU it would also run higher than 2496x1404.
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The demos streaming data pool was 768mb......not even a gig and Gen4 NVMes can do 7GB/s
I see a lot of wishful thinking on the PC side. Hopefully by 2022 you'll might see a Dev take advantage the I/0 on the new GPU. Hopefully its more than a game loading faster. You're talking about a very small subset of pc gamers that will have this capability. In mean time XSEX and PS5 devs will have refined the use of this technology all in $500ish box. PC is more than a few years away before this I/0 tech becomes widely adopted. Very curious about how this tech will scale. PC games will be held back by lower systems. Until then all i expect are PC tech demos and some games that load faster.
Sooo, in other words, you have nothing, no example, Like we all though. lol.All future games designed around next gen I/o - not just A game. These will either not be possible, or need obvious compromises. For example, the PS5 ratchet and clank game is geared to exploiting the i/o and would not be the same game on last gen secondary storage.
You thought? Don’t give yourself too much credit.Sooo, in other words, you have nothing, no example, Like we all though. lol.
How often is the pool buffer refreshed?
Direct api will be needed for UE5 nanite tech, maybe they could create a very large RAM stream pool or just cut down on asset quality, or maybe you insert elevators and doors ?
So let’s say that’s holding 3 frames worth of assets at 30fps, thats 7.6gig/sec.Refreshed as in erased and replaced?.....Id imagine anytime the screen needs to be completely redrawn with completely new triangles.
Otherwise it would just update with whatever triangles need to be displayed.
Oh nozzz, Are you trying to say I not a thinking person,You thought? Don’t give yourself too much credit.
You took his post seriously dude, I think he is just trolling and not believing the nonsense he wrote.Nanite doesnt need shit beyond a Gen 3 NVMe....the genius of Nanite that everyone seems to be forgetting and literally turning the other way round is the fact that all that geometry "doesnt" need mad bandwidth to deliver and only what is on screen is ever really needed to reside in VRAM.
Would it work on a 5400rpm....nope.
Would a Gen 3 NVMe suffice?...Comfortably
Would a Gen 4 NVMe suffice?....multiple times over with a more powerful GPU it would also run higher than 2496x1404.
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The demos streaming data pool was 768mb......not even a gig and Gen4 NVMes can do 7GB/s
So let’s say that’s holding 3 frames worth of assets at 30fps, thats 7.6gig/sec.
There’s no way to interpret how fast the i/o is delivering data simply based on the size of the pool. Indeed, the faster the i/o the smaller the pool needed because the data can be brought in faster, leaving more usable vram.
Fine fine, but I’m not getting any indication of how much data is being moved in and out over time. Is there more to the presentation you can point to? I appreciate the pool size is clear and fixed, but that on its own says nothing of the actual I/o speed.The stream pool is per frame.
If it was worse than classic rasterization and needed up to 7.6GB/s why they fuck would they make it?
Its 800mb per view....assume its per frame because each frame will render everything in view, as you move around more is added in and whats not needed is erased. (Logical)
But a full scene change as in wiping and starting again the pool would still be 800mb, because thats what Nanite would need on screen to render a frame thats 2496 x 1404.
Thats what the genius of Nanite is and everyone is forgetting and going with it another way.
The fact it takes all your gemoetry and breaks it down....it doesnt care about how much shit you have on screen because the whole frame will still be broken down into its triangle form.
Thus having a basically locked stream buffer....the most that could ever be seen on screen at resolution X is a known quantity, very litte guess work from devs and thats why people can throw in movie quality assets regardless of size and complexity, when its gone through nanite its as taxing as the space it takes up on screen without needing LODs.
Direct API? LOL WTF are you trying to say something like Lets say DIRECT STORAGE. LOL.
come on man at least makeup something technical sounding.
What are you guys upset about? really, such a weak attempt at being slick, the connection you make there is just silly.
What’s not totally clear is if the RTX IO GPU needs to first store the compressed data in vram before it can decompress it back into vram which I suspect may be the case with how things work on PC. PS5 delivers decompressed data straight into ram via the i/o block which would be a significant latency advantage for the console.
Nanite doesnt need shit beyond a Gen 3 NVMe....the genius of Nanite that everyone seems to be forgetting and literally turning the other way round is the fact that all that geometry "doesnt" need mad bandwidth to deliver and only what is on screen is ever really needed to reside in VRAM.
Would it work on a 5400rpm....nope.
Would a Gen 3 NVMe suffice?...Comfortably
Would a Gen 4 NVMe suffice?....multiple times over with a more powerful GPU it would also run higher than 2496x1404.
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The demos streaming data pool was 768mb......not even a gig and Gen4 NVMes can do 7GB/s
Everything i'm reading is showing that Next Gen doesnt really start for another 2 years, 1 the earliest... UE5/Directstorage/Games Taking Advantage of it. Also I can see why most of MS games are a year or two out. Buy now, wait later.
Really? are they? i haven't seen people getting any salty about this.
Really?
Just reading this thread alone you can see some of the usual suspects getting salty as fuck about their beloved secret sauces being completely obliterated by PC before even their launch.
I thought we were referring to data stream all this time, why are we talking about resolution all of a sudden?8K60+fps > 1440~30fps. No offense to you and your feelings. *Shrugs*
In case you didn't read the title:2 months away is after the 17th of this month didn't the memo of how time works skip your desk.![]()
FTFY:The disdain for the PC is palpable in this one.
The only thing I'm here for is to see the idiots who think any of the major tech in these consoles will be exclusive to the console, after using all PC tech.
It's not like consoles immediately make use of the new tech either. Even though there was a demo of UE5 on the PS5, there isn't going to be a game that leverages that any time soon. Those will also likely come out 2022-ish.In case you didn't read the title:
RTX I/O and DirectStorage coming... next year, possibly in 2022
yes very difficult! so difficult no one but you can understand the complicated gibberish tech talk. we get your shtick already.I Could not be botherd to type direct storage, glad you find it funny, was it because its hard to understand ?
Me I would never suggest you don't understand what you're talking about☝, ad hominem, whats that.What is your actual techical point, as you did not make one.....other than a weak ad hominem
List the games that will require this massive IO performance before the end of 2021 and run worse on a 3070 than the consoles. It will be the RTX ray tracing Launch all over again but for the NVME IO revolution.I am not upset, I am just point out facts
1. Direct storage preview in 2021, likely 2022 its ready
2. Go ask tim sweeny his views on PC IO, I can link lots of tweets if you want ?
Everything i'm reading is showing that Next Gen doesnt really start for another 2 years, 1 the earliest... UE5/Directstorage/Games Taking Advantage of it. Also I can see why most of MS games are a year or two out. Buy now, wait later.
People are still failing to see that games are in development for a while (especially the first party ones) and will make use of the tech soon. R&C is on launch window already. Hopefully with the Sony's investment, Epic could integrate a lot of the "quality of life" PS5 functionalities into UE5 out of the box.It's not like consoles immediately make use of the new tech either. Even though there was a demo of UE5 on the PS5, there isn't going to be a game that leverages that any time soon. Those will also likely come out 2022-ish.
The consoles barely have any advantage technology-wise. That does not mean that they still cannot provide a superior experience, depending on what you're looking for. There is an advantage in plug and play without needing to mess around with drivers, game settings etc.
People are still failing to see that games are in development for a while (especially the first party ones) and will make use of the tech soon. R&C is on launch window already. Hopefully with the Sony's investment, Epic could integrate a lot of the "quality of life" PS5 functionalities into UE5 out of the box.
Cerny also made it clear that the data streaming is transparent to the developer in the road to PS5 (timestamped)
So yeah, no need to incorporate it or additional development time, it's in there just to be used.
Devs were excited about PS5 for a while now on how this removes constraints, so I believe we will see it in action sooner than later. I would even dare to say that this may bring exclusive games to PS5 simply because of the data stream.
I thought we were referring to data stream all this time, why are we talking about resolution all of a sudden?
Goal post moving much?
In case you didn't read the title:
RTX I/O and DirectStorage coming... next year, possibly in 2022
FTFY:
The only thing I'm here for is to see the people who now understand this major tech in this console is currently exclusive to the console. It will make the industry move forward and we all should praise our lord Cerny for it.
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Timestamped:when is Ratch & Clank(the only software taking advantage of ULTRA Mega NVME performance) being released on the PS5 again?
The same applies to the XSX and even PC.every game on PS5 will have the advantage of the ssd, the ones designed around that will come soon.
PS5 is on another level though. At least for now there is no solution that matches it:The same applies to the XSX and even PC.
yes very difficult! so difficult no one but you can understand the complicated gibberish tech talk. we get your shtick already.
it's as though your 12, are you 12?
Me I would never suggest you don't understand what you're talking about☝, ad hominem, whats that.
(its not as though Ad hominems is your go to move, in every reply, right.)
List the games that will require this massive IO performance before the end of 2021 and run worse on a 3070 than the consoles. It will be the RTX ray tracing Launch all over again but for the NVME IO revolution.
What game do you propose will run worse on the PC?
When is Unreal5 being released? (I wonder why).
You mean UE5 will be useable just in time for direct storage(2021)
It's as if the Microsft software feature set is driving the development of major game engines and their implementation. (clueless Microsoft don't even know they are doing it, so clueless)
Not to mention AMD and Nvidia boy they have no clue. But Sony they got the industry beat.
With Ratchet & Clank, when is that coming out again, sometime between launch and March 2021.
The silliness obvious.
It's good enough for sony to have unreleased hardware and mention some features with limited software support and be praised.
Nvidia is launching their hardware before Sony and will have broader software support in 2021.
2022 will see the 4000 series might as well wait
Let me guess, the UE5 demo is going to be playable on ps5I thought we were referring to data stream all this time, why are we talking about resolution all of a sudden?
Goal post moving much?
In case you didn't read the title:
RTX I/O and DirectStorage coming... next year, possibly in 2022
FTFY:
The only thing I'm here for is to see the people who now understand this major tech in this console is currently exclusive to the console. It will make the industry move forward and we all should praise our lord Cerny for it.
![]()
Are you still failing to see that the industry is moving towards the same direction a console and not the other way around?Let me guess, the UE5 demo is going to be playable on ps5. Nope, but it will be releasing early this upcoming year on PC. To test all settings, etc. When it runs higher quality, higher framerate, higher resolution, what will your excuse be then? I don't need RTX IO in order to have a better experience than someone on console. There will be even more of a gap between PC dominance this gen.
So you are salty because Nvidia is dropping their gpu's this month? Before ps5 even releases? Nvidia and Microsoft have been implementing this way before ps5 was even announced. You can't be that big of a fanboy to disregard the facts.Are you still failing to see that the industry is moving towards the same direction a console and not the other way around?
That PC is catching up to a hardware we'll have in our hands in a couple of months?
It's bonkers, I know, but it's there. It's no FUD or marketing: A (hopefully) $500 machine making a PC that is not limited by budget, make a turn to adapt to a new standard?
I fully understand the salt. What a time to be alive, huh?![]()
Geez man, read the article. The solution is not ready yet on PCs and it is on PS5. Is that so hard to understand?So you are salty because Nvidia is dropping their gpu's this month? Before ps5 even releases? Nvidia and Microsoft have been implementing this way before ps5 was even announced. You can't be that big of a fanboy to disregard the facts.
And you are crazy to think a console that is 1/4 of the power of the new 30XX gpu's will somehow push above it's weight? Especially with nothing comparable to DLSS. Oh man, you been sniffing the secret sauce again? Your supposed to eat it, not snort it dude.
Let me make it easier for you to understand. So listen carefully. It's easier to develop this for one single platform, vs doing this for Nvidia and AMD gpu's with different hardware configurations. Further more, are PC games being held back because direct storage not being available right now? Did you even think about that for a second?Geez man, read the article. The solution is not ready yet on PCs and it is on PS5. Is that so hard to understand?
"Oh but they are developing for years"
Yeah, how the F is the console solution ready (For long enough to have games using it at launch window), but PC isn't then?
Let me try to put it on terms that easier to understand :
Both trains leave the station, both around the same speed and distance from their destination.
One arrives 2 years later than the other. Do we believe that they left the station at the same time?
Let me try this again...Let me make it easier for you to understand. So listen carefully. It's easier to develop this for one single platform, vs doing this for Nvidia and AMD gpu's with different hardware configurations. Further more, are PC games being held back because direct storage not being available right now? Did you even think about that for a second?
Can you show me what games on PC currently are unplayable with the console version running better? Please if you have any proof of your claims, state them now, otherwise you have no clue what you are talking about.
When direct storage releases for PC, games will run even better and more efficient than they already do. Your analogy doesn't even make sense. A better one would be, a train (ps5) and an airplane (pc) leave the station at the same time. The airplane will get there faster. And when direct storage comes out, the airplane will become a fighter jet vs that same train.
Only clueless people believe ue5 or ratchet and clank are using 7gbps. Wouldn't that mean the ps5 is maxed out already?! Games cannot look any better. Sony devs might as well pack up their bags, as they've already landed on the moon, while trying to reach for Mars.