THE:MILKMAN
Member
When are they gonna announce the PS5 Slim Bruh?
Wild guess in the next 10-14 days a SoP or event will get announced.
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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
Wild guess in the next 10-14 days a SoP or event will get announced.
MisterXDTV
Member
When are they gonna announce the PS5 Slim Bruh?
September seems to be the right moment
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Loxus
Member
Zen4C is available.
SSfox
Member
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This is my thing. Gpus aren't really advancing but adding a 3d cache cpu would blow me away.
The first console manufacturer that does that deserves some CRAZY props!
twilo99
Member
Yes, that would be the next major "leap" ..
RT performance is another thing, but that's entirely up to AMD at this point, and I don't think is as important as adding some 3D v-cache
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sankt-Antonio
Banned
My own guessLoxus is PS5 Pro will stick with RDNA2 as the "base" and backport all the RDNA3/4 goodies Cerny cherry-picks from the roadmap. Just like PS4 Pro.
For me there is no reason for Sony to go any further for a mid-gen bump. They'll want a big leap for PS6 in ~2028 which they won't get if they go Zen4 +RDNA4 for PS5 Pro.
I think the market evolved. Like iPhones, there is no need for massive bumps anymore. More minor bumps is going to become the norm. If Apple gets to be a trillion dollar company doing it, it’s going to be copied by others.
Even car makers are shifting away from releasing a new car every seven years to more frequent minor updates.
I would bet the jump in power between PS5-> PS5Pro is going to be the same as PS5Pro-> PS6, with some special stuff PS6 can do that just wasn’t feasible in 2024.
PS is selling gangbuster, they want to saturate the market with all possible price points and have an excuse to never cut prices to mich as the new box is just a couple years away etc…
THE:MILKMAN
Member
No doubt there is a lot of truth here and the only hope we have for consoles is Cerny being a fan of generation leaps. Lets hope he works his magic.
As we approach the limits of current tech the improvements we are getting are ever smaller, harder and longer to achieve:
Missing from this graph is the density jump for 16FF+ to N7 which I believe was 3.3x. Will be really interesting to see how Sony and Microsoft go about tackling the issues of diminishing returns.
Microsoft already made a pretty big issue of it with the Series X APU presentation so lord knows how they'll figure things out to make the next APU work...
Everyone in tech is in the same boat so they'll have to come up with something.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Thing is a full fat desktop CPU with all the cache etc comes in at 65-105W and there isn't any way a console APU will get this. GPU takes the vast majority of the power and area budget.
I agree it would be nice to see a bit more balance between the CPU and GPU but I trust Cerny and AMD techs know far more than me about this!
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
We don't know what they're doing. Just remember the "GitHub leak," that is all.
twilo99
Member
Thing is a full fat desktop CPU with all the cache etc comes in at 65-105W and there isn't any way a console APU will get this. GPU takes the vast majority of the power and area budget.
I agree it would be nice to see a bit more balance between the CPU and GPU but I trust Cerny and AMD techs know far more than me about this!
I know...
What about expanding the power envelope to accomodate for all of that? That has been creeping up slowly over the past 2 gens
PS4 - 250W
PS4 Pro - 310W
PS5 - 350W
Granted, the size of the PS5 is wayy too big for a console, but since people are already used to it, if they can keep the same size and bring the power up to say 450W we might have a chance at more modern/capable GPU/CPU combo.
The xsx draws even less power and the package there seems more efficient overall, so they have even more headroom to make the box bigger and compensate.
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
DF continues to double down on how having a choice to have a Pro console is dumb. I'm looking forward to the narrative change this time next year.
I find it really confusing how Alex, the biggest advocate for PC and over the top graphics and GPU power, says he sides with Phil Spencer on this one.
I find it really confusing how Alex, the biggest advocate for PC and over the top graphics and GPU power, says he sides with Phil Spencer on this one.
MisterXDTV
Member
DF always sides with MS.... They are paid....
When they made Xbox One X it was the greatest idea ever......
TheRedRiders
Member
I can sympathies with Alex, the PC-console gap has been the smallest it's ever been and now Sony plan on releasing an even more powerful console with enhanced ray-tracing.
PCMR insecurity goes brrrrrrr!
TrebleShot
Member
Yeah this is whats stopping me going all in on PC, I know the PS5Pro will bridge the gap somewhat, single launcher, mostly 60fps and ease of use combined with significant power and your talking about playing upscaled games at high res and fps so the benefit other than an open platform on PC begins to wane.
rickybooby87
Member
It is very odd.
For gen 8, we had:
- Xbox One
- Xbox One X
- PS4
- PS4PRO
Now we have:
- Xbox Series S
- Xbox Series X
- PS5
Literally every YouTube video covering the Xbox One X from DF can be summarized as such: It's the best thing since sliced bread
Since when is obtaining more powerful iterations of hardware for gaming inappropriate? It all just scales up or down right? What's inappropriate is releasing a gimped Xbox Series S with tamagotchi specs in the year of our lord 2020.
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Zathalus
Member
That video is from over two months ago. It's been discussed to death already.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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MasterCornholio
Member
I for one am shocked!
CloudShiner
Member
Anything that brings a console closer in power to PC makes Battaglia cry.
Same as anything that doesn't use a disc makes John 'Three-Chins' Linneman cry.
Leadbetter is the only one out of the main three of them who isn't a full on man-baby. But then again he's keeping busy growing his chins and face width to try and catch up with Linneman anyway.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
My money is on 3d stacking. Eg. The PS5 launched as a 320mm2 chip. But the actual compute logic on that chip probably all comes in at less than 220 mm2. The rest went to stuff like IO, cache, RAM channels...etc. We are already seeing AMD separating logic from non-logic transistors and wiring. So I see that being the next major thing with console APUs in addition to the usual node shrink. Its possible that the logic layer can even be on a different fab node than the cache, bus, IO...etc layer.No doubt there is a lot of truth here and the only hope we have for consoles is Cerny being a fan of generation leaps. Lets hope he works his magic.
As we approach the limits of current tech the improvements we are getting are ever smaller, harder and longer to achieve:
Missing from this graph is the density jump for 16FF+ to N7 which I believe was 3.3x. Will be really interesting to see how Sony and Microsoft go about tackling the issues of diminishing returns.
Microsoft already made a pretty big issue of it with the Series X APU presentation so lord knows how they'll figure things out to make the next APU work...
Everyone in tech is in the same boat so they'll have to come up with something.
I firmly believe MS are one of DF biggest sponsors. And if I am right with that assumption, that to me is as clear a conflict of interest as there can be. How can a media publication be even remotely objective and fair if thy are in the pockets of one of the 3 companies that is at the center of 90% of their content?
But this whole no PS5pro agenda of theirs I think is one of the most obvious biases. Simply put, there are currently two Xbox skus to the PS5s one. There being a PS5pro, literally just levels the field, with the only difference being that sonys mid gen refresh actually came in the middle of the gen vs MS who (as they claimed) released their mid-gen console launch at the start of the gen.
But at the end of the day, both platforms would have two boxes on the market. A high power and low power box. How is that a bad thing?
lol. Then surely this gen has not taught you anything. If this gen did teach you something, it's that we probably started this gen 2 years too early. It should have started in 2022, being that we are still getting cos platform games in 2023. If a new gen starts in 2025, we will be getting cross-platform (PS5 PS6) games till 2030.
If this current gen has shown us anything, is that now, even 7 years between generations is not enough time to make a clear generational leap. By generational leap, I mean to have hardware that is impossible to be matched by the previous gen in any way. And what people are missing is that the time between generational leap-type hardware has been slowly getting longer and longer. For reference, back in the PS1/PS2 era, it was 4 years.
MasterCornholio
Member
I think the issue they have is that the PS5 Pro would come years after the base model. Which would make comparisons difficult for them.
MisterXDTV
Member
They only have to blame Microsoft for releasing the potato called Series S. But they won't.
Guess what: also Series S was a great idea...
PS5 Pro? Terrible idea...
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MasterCornholio
Member
I was thinking more like what they would compare the PS5 Pro to.
MisterXDTV
Member
They won't compare it to anything...
The narrative will change to "Power doesn't matter, just have fun with games"
MasterCornholio
Member
Having fun with games is always a thing. It's up to them if they want to give us fair comparisons or not.
Killer8
Member
Pro consoles last gen made more sense because 4K became the new standard midway through the generation and you needed a console with enough horsepower to support that.
However, that being said you could make the same argument for technology like ray tracing which is only growing in ubiquity. Sure the PS5/XSX launched with ray tracing support, but barely anyone is using it, and when developers do include it we have to settle for maybe one or two effects, or worse:
And that's at 30fps. Alex from DF says he doesn't want one console to be the 30fps one and then the Pro is the better one, but that's the reality of the situation. YOU ARE HERE. Add in Unreal Engine 5 being very heavy on these consoles and it's apparent that performance and features are not going to keep up as this 'next-gen' is slowly shifting into gear.
The DF guys are also oddly receptive to Microsoft's excuse that "the S is the base model and the X is the pro one", because the other reality is that if the competition at Sony is going to offer its own Pro console which is head and shoulders above their best Series X offering, that is a tremendous tactical misstep. One of the selling points of the One X was not just the 4K support, it was billed as the world's most powerful console™ and was used as a soft relaunch of the failing Xbox brand. You don't just go from acting like performance matters so much in a console race to it not being a factor.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
I can't see it being 4070 level TBH.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Expect for the PS4 Pro was made to keep people in the Sony ecosystem as they had data that showed people started to migrate towards PC about mid gen of a consoles life.
They did it for money not to take advantage of people's new 4k TVs.
"I saw some data that really influenced me," House told The Guardian. "It suggested that there's a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that's obviously where it's to be had. We wanted to keep those people within our ecosystem by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro--and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement."
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-explains-how-ps4-pro-may-help-keep-people-fro/1100-6443431/
Possibly,but if the pro has 96ROPs and clocked above 2GHz,the pro will have an advantage.
TheRedRiders
Member
I can vouch for this from personal experience, I was planning on building a PC rig with 4090 sometime early next year, but since hearing there's a Pro in the works I'm in two minds.
No I'm not comparing a Pro with a 4090, but as long as a Pro can deliver more consistent 60 FPS experiences compared to the vanilla PS5 then I'm all in.
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
Seeing as an XBSX pro isn't likely to come to fruition now, I'm now tempted by a PSVR2. What's the likelihood of the PS5 pro giving the PSVR2 a boost in fidelity etc?
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
All of it?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Very high, especially in the reprojection and resolution department.
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
Yup, this was always my experience, mid gen towards the end I was always more on my PC as the console games start to lose fidelity.
Killer8
Member
That was likely also a factor but it was also in the time before Sony were a multi-platform company. They now just do the sensible thing and release the games on PC instead of competing with it. The 'ecosystem' matters less and less - as long as people are still buying their stuff and giving them record breaking amounts of money, it's stopped mattering. So with that out of the picture, if Sony are still going ahead with a PS5 Pro then there is likely some other data they've seen which is encouraging them to do it.
As far as I know Sony never reported PS4 Pro sales figures separately so it's hard to know how successful it really was. My bet is that they want to evolve the business to the mobile phone style upgrade route. That was mentioned in the DF video with a lot of bitterness attached to the sentiment. I think part of the hate from the enthusiasts is seeing the bespoke (lol) pieces of engineering, which tided you over for 6 years as developers worked to get blood from a stone, kind of vanishing. I expect the first nail in that coffin was the move to x86 and consoles becoming more and more like a box of PC parts.
SimTourist
Member
The reality is that while Xbox One X was a win in marketing hardly anyone bought it, Pro consoles were already a small portion of the total sales for Sony, but for Xbox I doubt they sold more than 1-2 million of the damn thing, but the RnD costs are probably not far off from developing a new gen console. They're already struggling to gain customers, a new premium console will not do much. Better invest that money into games because while Xbox One X was good there was barely any software to showcase it's capabilities.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Most likely totally unrelated but interesting to me nonetheless
Being from Southern Indiana and having been in certain circles and getting to meet a lot of influential people in our area I was out to dinner with some friends and one brought up how Playstation's packaging division was expanding in Terre Haute
I wanted to know more but he didn't have specifics just saying their plant there handles almost all of Playstations packaging and distribution of their consoles and 100% of their physical games
They started renovating a large warehouse space they have owned for 20 years that has been left empty and installing new packaging machines for something new and that plant is supposed to be online sometime next summer.
Like I said likely not PS5 Pro related but who knows.
Being from Southern Indiana and having been in certain circles and getting to meet a lot of influential people in our area I was out to dinner with some friends and one brought up how Playstation's packaging division was expanding in Terre Haute
I wanted to know more but he didn't have specifics just saying their plant there handles almost all of Playstations packaging and distribution of their consoles and 100% of their physical games
They started renovating a large warehouse space they have owned for 20 years that has been left empty and installing new packaging machines for something new and that plant is supposed to be online sometime next summer.
Like I said likely not PS5 Pro related but who knows.
Imtjnotu
Member
Well this year we have PSVR2, PORTAL, Slim model. Nothing for 2024 outside of the pro.
Pretty sure we can deduce what it's for
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I would think so as well but who knows maybe its just upgrading or something totally different
I was kind of torn even mentioning anything as it may be a reach, I dunno
Imtjnotu
Member
Don't really see it as a reach. Expanding the branch responsible for packaging for the second half of 2024, we know what it is
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
No doubt there is a lot of truth here and the only hope we have for consoles is Cerny being a fan of generation leaps. Lets hope he works his magic.
As we approach the limits of current tech the improvements we are getting are ever smaller, harder and longer to achieve:
Missing from this graph is the density jump for 16FF+ to N7 which I believe was 3.3x. Will be really interesting to see how Sony and Microsoft go about tackling the issues of diminishing returns.
Microsoft already made a pretty big issue of it with the Series X APU presentation so lord knows how they'll figure things out to make the next APU work...
Everyone in tech is in the same boat so they'll have to come up with something.
Solutions already exist. The question is if they want to invest the R&D and production costs to implement them:
-HBM based memory: Much better for hUMA-based memory architectures, affording lower latency, lower power consumption, and higher bandwidth. Even as a fat cache, it could bring substantial boosts in memory operations
-PIM (Processing-In-Memory): This is a technology where the actual memory modules have processing logic built directly into them. Significantly reduces power consumption, speeds up data crunching. Already on the market in the form of HBM-PIM (IIRC current designs pack as much as 1 TF - 1.5 TF of processing power into a stack of memory, though it's targeted at machine learning), and DRAM-PIM. A 10th-gen system using HBM for a fat cache could maybe target upping that to some HBM-PIM
-PNM (Processing-Near-Memory): This is a technology implementation where you're basically trying to get processing of data as close to the data itself (less reliance on transferring over the data bus) as possible, without having it directly in the memory module cells. You can think of the PS5's SSD I/O subsystem as an implementation of PNM, since it does a heavy amount of data processing between SSD and RAM without the CPU's continuous intervention, and is physically closer to storage than the CPU or GPU.
-Chiplets: This will help with design scalability and offer better granularity of different components of chip design, when combined with advanced 3D packaging. For consoles, it'll mean less reserved silicon to basically waste just to improve yields (saves costs), and further optimizing parts of the chip by specifying particular parts on particular node processes, saving additional costs. Lower power consumption vs. monolithic chip designs is another plus.
-Advanced 3D Chiplet Packaging: Would-be industry standards such as UCIe are looking to streamline chiplet-based packaging interconnects, and already have a good amount of support. When combined with the aforementioned elements, you can potentially get very big results because, once again, you get notable reductions in power consumption, allowing the power budget left over to spread among other areas to beef them up, while sitting comfortably in a console TDP range.
Of course, all of this doesn't mean anything unless advancements are made on the development community end to streamline AA and AAA game production so that budgets and dev time don't balloon yet again, otherwise we'd be looking at fewer games overall, and games taking even longer to get released. And at some point IMO, that just becomes unacceptable considering the upfront investments customers put into these systems. I'm sure AI will play a role in that (it needs to be regulated, however, preferably industry self-regulated) but I feel other adjustments have to be made as well.
Also, I think 10th-gen consoles will need more than just "more power" as a selling hook. Sony are in a really good position to (finally) integrate VR (and some form of AR) into a default package for a mainline PlayStation console, if they can find a way to scale PSVR specs and production costs to accommodate an entry-level headset they can sell at profit for an MSRP no higher than, say, $130. While I am not really impressed with PlayStation Portal in most aspects, I do kind of see the potential its technologies (Remote Play and PS Link in particular) can have in enabling a more cost-effective entry level PlayStation VR headset in the future. So from that perspective, the technology is quite promising.
It could allow a PS6 with a bundled entry-level VR headset as standard for potentially no higher than MSRP $499 or $599, depending on some factors. The benefits of having a default VR/AR experience with every PS6 in terms of the types of device interactions (VR/AR to 2D television and vice-versa viewports and view transfer, view enhancement, highlights etc.) for UI & OS QoL functions alone makes it worth doing.
Meanwhile, Microsoft doesn't have in-house VR/AR experience in the consumer entertainment space to leverage the way Sony does, but for a while now I've been saying their best option is to probably just finally take Xbox off the traditional console business model, and turn it into a specialized gaming PC device brand. Do what Valve tried to do with Steam Machines, but avoid their mistakes. It'd open up many avenues for them; for starters, they could finally make a profit off the hardware sales. They could lower overall volume of hardware production due to the change in market. They can open Xbox up to full Windows support, while still carrying over the console OS experience for a console-like UI shell environment (that would, naturally, disable any system processes not required for gaming, entertainment apps, web browsing or game streaming) as a default option at start-up.
They'd no longer have to bother with being constantly compared to Sony and Nintendo, while simultaneously having better grounds to get services like Game Pass onto those platforms, and offering true multiplatform support. They'd still be able to release all their games on PC Day 1, so that audience gets served as well, and they also now have a convenient means of doing actual genuine hardware refreshes (with improved specs) every 2-3 years, which can not only include internal specs but also getting more experimental with the hardware designs, like laptop-esque variants.
I think if these things happen, the next console generation will be truly great. Given it might also be the last generation with fully dedicated traditional gaming hardware, I feel it is worth that effort.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
While we may collectively be beefing UE5 now, I think this is ultimately what the engine is supposed to do. Making these AAA games easier to develop.
Oh God, pls no. It's not even possible. Unless the bundle costs like $1000 though.
All three of them are literally regurgitating Phil views and opinions in this video. I get Phil saying it, he needs to downplay a Pro after already apparently making one and releasing it 2020. But coming from DF is lol worthy especially after analyzing a number of recent 720p 60fps current gen games.
Alex honestly looks close to crying because of the rumours of a PS5 Pro release. Pretending to be mistified why current owners or prospective new buyers might want the option of a more powerful console, the irony is off the charts coming from a tech site.
The argument that a Pro option isnt needed and devs should continue pushing only current consoles should also apply to future PC gaming cards, right? Facts are they're already many many times more powerful than current consoles so any new cards should also wait years till next console gen right?! You think Alex agrees?! Of course not, he'll fill his pants the moment Nvidia announce and release updated gaming cards.
Anyone following DF long enough know their opinions in consoles comparisons are almost directly tied to the optics for MS. I feel they've crossed a line and can no longer be truely impartial. Their opinions and coverage change dependant on wether MS has the power advantage or not. Or just acting as MS extended PR like this "Starfield 30fps I dont think is a limitation of the machine that's just bethesda, its a great box" near verbatim what Phil said its embarrassing.
Its a shame for me as they do occasionally make good content but this gen has been funny to watch as Cerny engineering has turned their worlds and beliefs upside down. 10TF=>12TF????! Tickles me everytime they dare broach the subject.
They know a Pro console puts MS in a difficult bind so they downplay (badly).
I feel a pro is needed right now, how many more 720p 60fps unreal games do you want to play? Full clear 120fps PSVR2 games without reprojection, bring it on!! No need to continue compromising raytracing or other effects at 60fps or above, sign me up.
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SolidQ
Member
we will see when 7800XT reviews are up, but PS5pro gonna be have faster RT than 4070.