Crispy Gamer
Member
After 4 years? That would be disappointing but I guess it'll keep costs down so it's plausible
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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I think the catch is that they don't even need it to be that powerful. And focusing on just raster performance would land them in a diminishing returns situation. There are other things and areas that would need some attention, eg, putting more cache memory in the APU which would improve CPU performance significantly.
Well if it has and somehow can actually use the VOPD stuff from RDNA3 in addition to supposedly having BVH accelerating RT cores, that would be for a very very very powerful 60CU GPU. Though that whole VOPD thing is a totally different conversation.
Investor9872
Member
DLSS is NVIDIA. Sony uses AMD.
TLZ
Banned
I guess he strictly means 60CUs. Not 56 out of 60 etc.
Physiognomonics
Member
With 54 CUs they'll need to reach 3ghz for that. Could be possible on 4nm process, maybe not on 5nm.
Loxus
Member
I'm still seeing some confusion with working out RDNA3 TF.
First we must understand that on RDNA 3, the number of SIMD32 in compute units has doubled compared to RDNA2.
The 7900XTX is 61 TFLOPs.
96 CU x 4 SIMD32 processors × 32 FP32 processors × multiply-accumulate × 2.5GHz
Which is,
96 × 4 × 32 × 2 × 2.5GHz = 61.44 TFLOPS
So for the PS5 Pro, assuming same clocks as PS5
54 × 4 × 32 × 2 × 2.23GHz = 30.82 TFLOPS
On PC, dual issue my not be fully utilized. On console, dual issue utilization should be a non-issue.
First we must understand that on RDNA 3, the number of SIMD32 in compute units has doubled compared to RDNA2.
The 7900XTX is 61 TFLOPs.
96 CU x 4 SIMD32 processors × 32 FP32 processors × multiply-accumulate × 2.5GHz
Which is,
96 × 4 × 32 × 2 × 2.5GHz = 61.44 TFLOPS
So for the PS5 Pro, assuming same clocks as PS5
54 × 4 × 32 × 2 × 2.23GHz = 30.82 TFLOPS
On PC, dual issue my not be fully utilized. On console, dual issue utilization should be a non-issue.
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nosoynadie22
Member
question for hardware experts.
Is my dream PS5 portable impossible?
Is my dream PS5 portable impossible?
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
Investor9872
Member
I don't see where he said it wasn't 60CUs. He did say that 64CU - 4CU = 60CU is wrong.
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Crispy Gamer
Member
Yeah the Kepler guy tweeted "nothing is stopping Sony from using 60/60"
Gamerguy84
Member
Well that depends on your strength. Do you even lift bro?
Anyway so this thing is running right now in an AMD lab and Sony HQ? The Remnant in native 4k? Which is actually a nice looking 2k game.
Ronin_7
Member
SegaSnatcher
Member
The point of the Pro is just to take base PS5 games and run them better, not to specifically target that console and scale down. No different than PS4 Pro.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not sold on this though, Pro consoles are likely to receive token support from devs (few devs making quick patches to mostly let the new machine try to bruteforce their way through the games) like it mostly seems to have happened for PS4 Pro. Why would we expect it to be different in PS5 Pro vs PC?
Maybe some RDNA4 extensions and some Sony compiler and profiler magic? Possible, but I would not hold my breath there…
Yes, of course. Since everything has to run on it. But thankfully PS5 is already powerful enough even beating Xsex most of the time.
Now imagine if PS5 is like that turd of Xsess, Sony's first-party output would be held back. Thankfully that's not the case.
FingerBang
Member
You can't really talk about bottlenecks, more of baseline. The games will target PS5 and then will be scaled up.
That is the point of an "enhanced" console instead of a next generation. That said, having a PS5 as the "minimum" hardware is amazing for developers. Too bad that will basically only be true for first parties.
squidilix
Member
We never know the "true" power of the PS4 Pro because Base PS4, indeed
So I assume, PS5 Pro is like PS4 Pro with more stability / résolution without gap.
But I still think we can achieve some crazy graphics like RDR2 and especially TLOUp2 wich this one perform better on base PS4
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TheRedRiders
Member
I know people are worried about a 1.8x jump in rasterization performance, however if that is the case then it likely means Cerny's plan is to to boost it to an effective 2x via next-gen upscaling technology.
I said it before but I do think the Pro will have some sort of hardware acceleration for upscaling tech, even if they don't, FSR 3 should still be more than enough.
I said it before but I do think the Pro will have some sort of hardware acceleration for upscaling tech, even if they don't, FSR 3 should still be more than enough.
Perrott
Member
Absolutely nothing, and that's its point.
To who the Pro means something is to the hardcore consumer: the same games as in the PS5 but at higher, even native, resolutions, steadier framerates and with prettier visuals.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
In this case you most likely mean PCI-Express 5.0. Definitely not happening.
Loxus
Member
Do you guys know about yields?
Or the reason why PS4 has 20CUs but only 18 active?
How about, why isn't the PS4 Pro 40 active CUs instead of 36? Even the PS5 only has 36 of the 40CUs active.
Knowing about a wafer and yields is why the PS5 Pro is not going to have 60/60 CUs active.
Loxus
Member
Not if dual issue is done on the API level, where devs input isn't needed. Similarly to where the IO Complex decompression needed no dev input.
Dual issue has additional SIMD32 that's using up die space. If you think Sony is not going to use dual issue, Sony may as well stick with RDNA 2 on 5nm.
RDNA4 is rumored to continue with dual issue.
TheRedRiders
Member
I think if he leaks specific details he may compromise his sources, until a later date when the information becomes more available to different people within the company. That way it's harder to pin down who leaked what since so many people already know, including developers.
I do agree though, Keplar needs to relax with the blue-balling. Tell us or just shut up.
Physiognomonics
Member
The leak is very specific about 30 WGP specs guys. I have a feeling we'll get exactly that so that would mean reaching 20 tfops (RDNA2) is not that far fetched anymore.
A 2.6 ghz clock would be enough to reach about 20tf with 30 WGP.
A 2.6 ghz clock would be enough to reach about 20tf with 30 WGP.
TLZ
Banned
Cool. Thats what I posted earlier as well. It makes sense. Keeping with the PS4's 18 for BC.
PS4 18.
PS4 pro 18 + 18 = 36.
PS5 18 + 18 = 36.
PS5 Pro 18 + 18 + 18 = 54.
Kakax11
Banned
MARK CERNY would rather market it around as something corny like SSD-2 PRO
Crispy Gamer
Member
That's about a 17% gpu clock bump the ps4pro got a 14% increase yeah I'm not sure
especially with the PS5 clocks already pushing pretty hard but maybe...I'd like to see if they stick with variable clocks
Bernoulli
M2 slut
The PS5 clocks aren't pushing hard compared to RDNA2 and 3 gpusThat's about a 17% gpu clock bump the ps4pro got a 14% increase yeah I'm not sure
Imtjnotu
Member
I can still here my PS4 pro after all these years.No liquid metal on the slim? Enjoy your dry shitty paste after one or two years.
But only if applied correctly.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It would make more sense uniformly with adding another 18CUs for a total of 54 (18+18 = 36 + 18 = 54). But even with current PS5 clocks (for low extraction layer compatibility across profiles with the base PS5) and 3 shader engines per CU (if true), then that is still a 25TF+ box.
Some things are not adding up, but very, very little info to go on.
Pretty much. Clocks would have to be the same (or more but not less) as the PS5 for compatibility across profiles as well due to how low the extraction layers are in their SDK.
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If the PS5 pro has over 36 CUs then why would it's shade engine need to group exactly like the PS4 for back compatibility? If there is already 36 CUs, could part of the GPU clock down or shut off like Cerny explained in that Eurogamer interview?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Huh? You still need the 18 group for the PS4 and 36 with the same clocks (or higher) for PS5 base model profiles. I am not understanding what you are saying.
darrylgorn
Member
Twice the power of PS5?
At the end of 2024?
At the end of 2024?
saintjules
Member
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I'm alluding to this part Mark Cerny said in his Eurogamer interview:
"First, we doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself, sort of like the wings of a butterfly. That gives us an extremely clean way to support the existing 700 titles," Cerny explains, detailing how the Pro switches into its 'base' compatibility mode. "We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU."
what I'm suggesting if the shaders arrays are regrouped to add more WPS or CUs, shouldn't it only matter with regards to the PS5 and PS4 pro because they each have 36 CU and half of that gets the PS4.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'm still not following the last sentence in context to what I mentioned which is also based on what Cerny said.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
thebigmanjosh
Member
It's most likely going to be 54/60 with 10 WGPs per SE. Sony likely designed it so they can disable one SE as a fallback for PS5 "BC" if needed.Do you guys know about yields?
Or the reason why PS4 has 20CUs but only 18 active?
How about, why isn't the PS4 Pro 40 active CUs instead of 36? Even the PS5 only has 36 of the 40CUs active.
Knowing about a wafer and yields is why the PS5 Pro is not going to have 60/60 CUs active.
The only way I could see them doing a full 60/60 is if AMD solved their massive yield issues (they likely didn't) or Sony markets this as a premium niche product at $600+ (more likely)
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I don't think that is what all that means.So 60 out of 66
What he is saying is anyone saying 56/60 or 60/64 is wrong. He didn't say 54/60 is wrong.
What he also is saying, is that PS5 and in turn, PS5pro is using the same GPU blueprint that the PS4 used. To put that into context, PS4 had 20CUs. PS4pro had 40CUs. A pair of shader engines (SE)with 20CU each. Same thing with PS5.
PS5 has 10WGs/SE. So basically 20CUs per engine. And like the PS4pro before it, has a pair of those SE. What the PS4, PS4pro and PS5 have shown, is that for whatever reason, `viola` does not accommodate more than 10WGs(20CU) per SE. And disabling CUS per engine must be identical across all SE.
This means, that PS5pro has 3SEs with 10WGs each of 2CUs per work group. disable one WG in each array leaves you with a total of 27WGs. Or 54CU.
A good RDNA3 reference would be the 7900xtx. That has a total of 6 SEs with 8WGs per shader engine.
The seri X is an anomaly,it also uses 2 SE, but has up to 14WGs per SE. Sony, would not be doing this, as they would want to keep the SE core identical to the PS4/PS5. Doesnt matter if you have 2, 3, 4 or 5 SEs.What matters is that the number of WGs you have in all of them is the same as whatever you are trying to maintain compatibility with. At least so far that's the design philosophy Sony has been using.
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I just suggesting why does the CU/WGP count have to be 20 total and 18 active or 30/27WGP for backward compatibility reasons if the assumed PS5 pro is going to have over 36 CUs if Sony rearranges the CUs? And taking Onq123 response to the tweet as an example,if the PS5 pro does have 66/60 CUs instead of 60/56 or 54 CUs the shader engine count would be over 20/18 of total/active,22+22+22 instead of 18+18+18.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I see what you are saying now. My comment was based on the current CU count methodology.
I was pretty much joking but given a possibility for 60
22 x 3 with 2 redundant CUs in each group making it 20 x 3 for 60 CUs .
Most likely it's just adding a 3rd SE to the 18 + 18 that we already have for 54 but the tweet is actually just pointing out the silliness of people saying stuff like 56 out of 60 or 60 out of 64 because that would be 2 SE with 30 or 32 CU's each
damiank
Member
IMO it still will be PS5 as it looks now. Slim would be CFI-2000. Also, actual console is technically ready for detachable ODD. It's like you buy actual Digital PS5 and ODD, come home, detach plate from console, insert ODD, put new plate that comes with ODD and you're good to go. It just needs adjustments to the case, like pulling connectors outside.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Sony is not that lazy.
And they would have to be crazy, stupid or both to pass up on the marketing buzz associated with a `the new PS5`.
