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[Oberstein]

"Omelette du Caesar".

 

[FunkMiller]

You call me naive, alright, but then pivot and expect us to believe that you can use "billions" to restore his military. I don't think you understand this aspect, this isn't Command and Conquer: Red Alert where you just buy a few more units and march off in a new direction. A generation of trained leaders and officers are gone, obliterated. This harkens back to a midlevel parallel of the Purges of the 1930s in Stalinist Russia, look what happened when they remobilized (just like you think is so easy) and got destroyed en masse by the Fins and then Germans in '41. And your idea that they can just whip up new equipment is ridiculous on face value, their armament industry is decimated by the sanctions. Armor production has halted. They are crowdsourcing supplies for their airforce. Oh, they can beat Ukraine to death on the land, and believe me, they will, but against any western NATO article5 nation, I mean, what planet do you inhabit?

Justice? This isn't some world where there is a God that distributes equal justice under the law and keeps tab of cosmic karma. Putin's an animal, but he'll ravage Ukraine the longer this goes on. Would a dead Ukrainian solder rather have died defending Kiev and stopping the war or died so that their family in Kharkiv can get thrown out of their homes, starved on the road for a month, raped and then murdered and buried in a mass grave? I want an answer.

The Hitler comparisons are overly simplistic, but unlike you I realize I don't know you so refuse to call you "naive" as you did me. The stability–instability paradox and minimal deterrence policy looms large here, this dynamic didn't exist during the 1930s. Russia has few people it can go after now that NATO expansion into Scandinavia is likely. The Baltic is Article5 and there is tremendous research demonstrating the stability of nuclear power on nuclear power conflict and lack thereof, even conventionally.

But let's think that what you said was smart and valid and game it out historically, counter-factually. Historically, Germany took the Sudetenland as they claimed it was filled with ethnic Germans that were being persecuted and the Munich Agreements between the European powers sought to find peace in 1938. Nice parallel. Let's now diverge and say that when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia in 1939, the Czechs got pushed back to a fraction of their size in Slovokia and their major cities were being met by German armored spearheads. But, the Czech's we backed up by the Western nations and Russians and given huge sums of arms and money and aim and amazingly, miraculously, they fought even harder that historically (and I'm Czech, so no offense to the Czech's) they pushed them back to the Munich Agreement lines of '38. The war stalemated and the death toll rose precipitously. Western Intelligence suggested the Germans would regain the momentum. Meanwhile, Germany was an industrial power and it's removal caused huge disruptions to the world economy, inflation and food supply (exaggeration, but need the parallel). Hitler's army was destroyed as an effective force, the officer corps that we now infamously know -- Guderian, Manstein, von Kleist, Rommel, etc... some dead, other's in disarray. The Luftwaffe begging for parts and unable to fly. The armor and trucks and infrastructure of the army totally fucked and world wide sanctions preventing rebuilding at scale.

So, now, you're telling me that even in your magical situation where we know Hitler was still a fucking madman asshole the likes of which the world rarely encounters, you couldn't have seen the European powers reach out and call for a ceasefire and end to the death at the Munich boundaries and saying let's demilitarilze the Sudetenland as an independent buffer? You'd basically be saying fight on, retake it all at any cost.

Only in our timeline, the separatist lands were basically autonomous for almost a decade, not 1 year.

Edit and Restated: What are your end goals? What do you hope to see achieved? Why do you want OTHER PEOPLE to fight and die?

Fuck me, chief. Do you have a point to make in any of that? Why are you spouting potential scenarios from world war 2 that never happened when discussing the current, real situation?

But I’ll try to at least pick something out of all of that to comment on:

“Putin's an animal, but he'll ravage Ukraine the longer this goes on. Would a dead Ukrainian solder rather have died defending Kiev and stopping the war or died so that their family in Kharkiv can get thrown out of their homes, starved on the road for a month, raped and then murdered and buried in a mass grave? I want an answer.”

Putin is an animal… and the longer what goes on? The war? You think he’ll suddenly be nice to all the Ukrainians still under his control in your scenario where he gets to keep their land?

The rest of the bolded makes no sense as a question.

Finally what I hope to see achieved, is Putin forced out of Ukraine completely. This is what the Ukrainians want, and their opinion is the only one that matters. Do you disagree with this?

 

[akimbo009]

You call me naive, alright, but then pivot and expect us to believe that you can use "billions" to restore his military. I don't think you understand this aspect, this isn't Command and Conquer: Red Alert where you just buy a few more units and march off in a new direction. A generation of trained leaders and officers are gone, obliterated. This harkens back to a midlevel parallel of the Purges of the 1930s in Stalinist Russia, look what happened when they remobilized (just like you think is so easy) and got destroyed en masse by the Fins and then Germans in '41. And your idea that they can just whip up new equipment is ridiculous on face value, their armament industry is decimated by the sanctions. Armor production has halted. They are crowdsourcing supplies for their airforce. Oh, they can beat Ukraine to death on the land, and believe me, they will, but against any western NATO article5 nation, I mean, what planet do you inhabit?

Justice? This isn't some world where there is a God that distributes equal justice under the law and keeps tab of cosmic karma. Putin's an animal, but he'll ravage Ukraine the longer this goes on. Would a dead Ukrainian solder rather have died defending Kiev and stopping the war or died so that their family in Kharkiv can get thrown out of their homes, starved on the road for a month, raped and then murdered and buried in a mass grave? I want an answer.

The Hitler comparisons are overly simplistic, but unlike you I realize I don't know you so refuse to call you "naive" as you did me. The stability–instability paradox and minimal deterrence policy looms large here, this dynamic didn't exist during the 1930s. Russia has few people it can go after now that NATO expansion into Scandinavia is likely. The Baltic is Article5 and there is tremendous research demonstrating the stability of nuclear power on nuclear power conflict and lack thereof, even conventionally.

But let's think that what you said was smart and valid and game it out historically, counter-factually. Historically, Germany took the Sudetenland as they claimed it was filled with ethnic Germans that were being persecuted and the Munich Agreements between the European powers sought to find peace in 1938. Nice parallel. Let's now diverge and say that when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia in 1939, the Czechs got pushed back to a fraction of their size in Slovokia and their major cities were being met by German armored spearheads. But, the Czech's we backed up by the Western nations and Russians and given huge sums of arms and money and aim and amazingly, miraculously, they fought even harder that historically (and I'm Czech, so no offense to the Czech's) they pushed them back to the Munich Agreement lines of '38. The war stalemated and the death toll rose precipitously. Western Intelligence suggested the Germans would regain the momentum. Meanwhile, Germany was an industrial power and it's removal caused huge disruptions to the world economy, inflation and food supply (exaggeration, but need the parallel). Hitler's army was destroyed as an effective force, the officer corps that we now infamously know -- Guderian, Manstein, von Kleist, Rommel, etc... some dead, other's in disarray. The Luftwaffe begging for parts and unable to fly. The armor and trucks and infrastructure of the army totally fucked and world wide sanctions preventing rebuilding at scale.

So, now, you're telling me that even in your magical situation where we know Hitler was still a fucking madman asshole the likes of which the world rarely encounters, you couldn't have seen the European powers reach out and call for a ceasefire and end to the death at the Munich boundaries and saying let's demilitarilze the Sudetenland as an independent buffer? You'd basically be saying fight on, retake it all at any cost.

Only in our timeline, the separatist lands were basically autonomous for almost a decade, not 1 year.

Edit and Restated: What are your end goals? What do you hope to see achieved? Why do you want OTHER PEOPLE to fight and die?

Pretty sure Russia can stop all this by stopping, and turning back around. Pretty simple.

 

[InverseAgonist]

Fuck me, chief. Do you have a point to make in any of that? Why are you spouting potential scenarios from world war 2 that never happened when discussing the current, real situation?

But I’ll try to at least pick something out of all of that rambling to comment on:

“Putin's an animal, but he'll ravage Ukraine the longer this goes on. Would a dead Ukrainian solder rather have died defending Kiev and stopping the war or died so that their family in Kharkiv can get thrown out of their homes, starved on the road for a month, raped and then murdered and buried in a mass grave? I want an answer.”

Putin is an animal… and the longer what goes on? The war? You think he’ll suddenly be nice to all the Ukrainians still under his control in your scenario where he gets to keep their land?

The rest of the bolded makes no sense as a question.

You invoked Godwin's Law, did you not? I gave you a very neat parallel to Hitler's actions in 1938, I'm sorry you can't grasp it. I'm sorry you can't understand the bolded question, it is a straight forward binary choice that tests your personal heuristic, I was trying to understand you.

Pretty sure Russia can stop all this by stopping, and turning back around. Pretty simple.

What I've learned from this post, but mostly FunkMiller, is that there isn't much deep analysis or thought or learned ideas underpinning these opinions.

I layed out some novel scenarios to think about and idea and concepts from IR to learn and enhance your understanding of these issues. What you chose to do with it is upto you, but I will not take part in this discussion. I am sorry.

Anyone else, feel free to reply or PM me if interested in chatting. Take care!

 

[FunkMiller]

You invoked Godwin's Law, did you not? I gave you a very neat parallel to Hitler's actions in 1938, I'm sorry you can't grasp it. I'm sorry you can't understand the bolded question, it is a straight forward binary choice that tests your personal heuristic, I was trying to understand you.



What I've learned from this post, but mostly FunkMiller, is that there isn't much deep analysis or thought or learned ideas underpinning these opinions.

I layed out some novel scenarios to think about and idea and concepts from IR to learn and enhance your understanding of these issues. What you chose to do with it is upto you, but I will not take part in this discussion. I am sorry.

Anyone else, feel free to reply or PM me if interested in chatting. Take care!

 

[Tams]

You're being a jerk and an asshole. "My true self". What's that now? A realist who spent time around 2007 at JHU SAIS in Bologna discussing Soviet military technology and doctrine? You don't know who I am or who you're talking to.

The situation has vastly more dimensions that your factoring in and when there's a hot asymmetric conflict including a Superpower, it's generally best -- as years of study have shown -- to turn it off as soon as possible. Prolonging it do nobody any good, lest not the people of the country who inevitably suffer and die.

This is a war of aggression by Russia to conquer Ukraine. We stropped them cold and push them back to the pre-invasion Minsk II boundaries that were, pseudo-stable -- although this is not true if you're living there on the ground with daily artillery fire since 2014. But in all, mission accomplished. If you started with $100, sat at 85% for a decade before abruptly dropping to near 0% and fought back to 85%, maybe it's time to call it before you lose everything again. MiniMax works. But then again, you are likely a WSB savant.

And yes, the Russians are assholes. I have no love for them. Do you really expect me to defend their behavior one iota? The fuck's wrong with you?!

Then you're just hopelessly naïve.

Do you honestly think, if Russia allowed to make any gains that they won't be back for more? They've certainly sad they want much more.

And do you have any evidence that prolonging the war is significantly driven by the military industrial complex? You did claim that; don't run away from it.

You brought up Korea... you do know that the only part of Korea that is good is the part that the West fought incredibly hard and lost a lot for? The basket case in the north supported by China and Russia...

Finally, it's fine for most of us here to sit back and say we support Ukraine and that it's important they don't lose. Ideally we will donate or help in some way personally (which yes, I have done).

But if you are so ready to publicly say how much you love Ukraine and have people 'like family' there, why isn't your arse down there helping them fight the invaders?!

Oh, and say some of the shit you've spouting here to some Ukrainian soldiers so we can see how they take being told how they feel.

 

[Rentahamster]

End the war and return to stable bounderies before the conventional force balance which is so fucking tremendously in Russia's favor starts tipping the scales and the Ukrainians suffer and lose more native territory.

I agree. Putin should end the war that he started, and give back all the territory he illegally conquered in both Ukraine and in Georgia, because those boundaries were stable before Russia came in and fucked everything up. That sounds like a great idea. I hope he does that yesterday.

 

[JayK47]

The end of the war isn't your , my or anyone else's call , its the Ukrainians if they want to fight for their home ,
Hate to break it to you but "peace" doesn't end brutality, millions died as boat people after the fall of Saigon, the Shahs defeat ushered in a brutal oppressive regime ,the Karen continue to suffer at the hands of the Burmese government, the soviets were murderous brutes to the countries they conquered after ww2
You're naive if you think ending the war ends the deaths at an aggressors hands, as long as the Ukrainians have the will to fight I support giving them the supplies they need. I won't support providing them with men on the ground, they have to win this themselves but your "end" is akin to leading lambs to wolves
I used it before but this is you

Peace is bad now? Wow. I guess we can continue to provide aid and sanction Russia, which doesn't seem to be a sanction on Russia so much as a sanction on Western nations pushing them. Here are a few links from loved news sources:

Russia’s Oil Revenue Soars Despite Sanctions, Study Finds

Russia's ruble is the strongest currency in the world this year

The sanctions do not appear to be working. Correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: Also, anybody who sees war firsthand is against it. It is sad to see so many people on here that are now suddenly pro war. This thread has taken a dark turn.

 

[Atrus]

Peace is bad now? Wow. I guess we can continue to provide aid and sanction Russia, which doesn't seem to be a sanction on Russia so much as a sanction on Western nations pushing them. Here are a few links from loved news sources:

Russia’s Oil Revenue Soars Despite Sanctions, Study Finds

Russia's ruble is the strongest currency in the world this year

The sanctions do not appear to be working. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are basing your view through a very narrow and limited lens. The ruble is being propped up internally by Russian policies but is not traded abroad and therefore the exchange rates posted aren’t reflective of the actual rate in the international market.

Russia’s Economy Is Tanking but the Ruble Soared. Here’s Why.

The ruble strengthened this week to levels not seen since 2018, making the currency the second-best performer against the dollar this year. Russia has taken steps to weaken the currency, with the central bank lowering interest rates again.

www.wsj.com

Ruble firms to the dollar, but the exchange rates are not real

The Russian ruble surged by more than 10% on March 29 in Moscow trading, following peace talks in Istanbul that seemed to have made progress and the ...

www.bne.eu

What we do know is that the sanctions have crippled Russia’s ability to do business as usual and that even with oil revenues the economy is in trouble.

Russian tank manufacturer Uralvagonzavod may have run out of parts | Fortune

The Ukrainian military reports Russian state-owned company has ceased production and repairs due to a lack of foreign-made components.

fortune.com

Russian economy 'won't be as it was,' central banker says

The head of the Russian Central Bank is warning that the country’s economy faces pressure from abroad that could persist indefinitely, dampening hopes that conditions could return to the way they were before Russia sent troops into Ukraine

abcnews.go.com

Russia's economic slump will wipe out 15 years of gains - IIF

Russia's economy will shrink 15% this year and 3% in 2023 as the hit from Western sanctions, an exodus of companies, a Russian "brain-drain" and collapse in exports wipe out 15 years of economic gains, a global banking industry lobby group said.

www.reuters.com

 

[Tams]

Peace is bad now? Wow. I guess we can continue to provide aid and sanction Russia, which doesn't seem to be a sanction on Russia so much as a sanction on Western nations pushing them. Here are a few links from loved news sources:

Russia’s Oil Revenue Soars Despite Sanctions, Study Finds

Russia's ruble is the strongest currency in the world this year

The sanctions do not appear to be working. Correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: Also, anybody who sees war firsthand is against it. It is sad to see so many people on here that are now suddenly pro war. This thread has taken a dark turn.

You're a useful idiot of the like that dictators take advantage of.

Sanctions take time, and absolutely have, even before 2014, played a role in holding back Russia's development of their armed forces.

Now, corruption has played a bigger role, but still, notice the absolute lack of modern equipment Russia has.

And sanctions take time to fully hit. It also doesn't really matter how much money you have, if a lot of the stuff you need is not being sold to you.

I'm hardly estatic about there being a war, but what alternatives are there? When dictators (or even democracies) roll in and invade other countries should we just raise up our hands and give them what they want? If so, where does that stop? (hint: it doesn't and you end up with a world of utter turmoil)

Dictators take advantage of that attitude you have and do what it is they want, then say 'well if you want it (what I've done) to stop, then acquiescence to my demands'. It's gaslighting.

It's like the school bully saying 'give me your lunch money or else I'll beat you up!' And do you know what works in that case? Beating the shit out of the bully until they learn their lesson. Trust me, I know and have seen, and even experienced it myself many times.


And what about people in those invaded countries? If they want to fight for their freedom, land, property, etc., who are we to try and stop them? I suggest you stop being so condescending.

 

[MrA]

Peace is bad now? Wow. I guess we can continue to provide aid and sanction Russia, which doesn't seem to be a sanction on Russia so much as a sanction on Western nations pushing them. Here are a few links from loved news sources:

Russia’s Oil Revenue Soars Despite Sanctions, Study Finds

Russia's ruble is the strongest currency in the world this year

The sanctions do not appear to be working. Correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: Also, anybody who sees war firsthand is against it. It is sad to see so many people on here that are now suddenly pro war. This thread has taken a dark turn.

so you'd be cool with Russians executing 10s maybe 100s of thousands of Ukrainians? Russia has a history of executing their defeated enemies, plus aggressors are not stopped by appeasement if Russia takes any land from Ukraine, they'll begin eying Poland, Estonia, and every other Slavic state, appeasement didn't even work in Ukraine once already, Putin got Crimea and more importantly Sevastopol but decided he wants more, so your idea has already failed once in this very conflict
wanting war? Russia brought war to Ukraine, they are the ones fighting they get to decide if they think their own sacrifices are worth it help them fight,

 

[TwinB242]

wow @ 1:32, pretty much passing through hails of bullets. These volunteers are made of something else.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[akimbo009]

Peace is bad now? Wow. I guess we can continue to provide aid and sanction Russia, which doesn't seem to be a sanction on Russia so much as a sanction on Western nations pushing them. Here are a few links from loved news sources:

Russia’s Oil Revenue Soars Despite Sanctions, Study Finds

Russia's ruble is the strongest currency in the world this year

The sanctions do not appear to be working. Correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: Also, anybody who sees war firsthand is against it. It is sad to see so many people on here that are now suddenly pro war. This thread has taken a dark turn.

Russia can just turn around

 

[DeafTourette]

It amazes me that there are people who really support Russia. Came across a tosser the other day on FB who not only admitted he's supportive of Russia (had a 'i stand with Russia' banner on his page) but said he's a white supremacist as well!

 

[funkygunther]

It amazes me that there are people who really support Russia. Came across a tosser the other day on FB who not only admitted he's supportive of Russia (had a 'i stand with Russia' banner on his page) but said he's a white supremacist as well!

well no shit, those things are 1:1...no doubt he thinks Western society is soft and weak and that people like Putin are strong men that create good times

 

[FunkMiller]

Peace is bad now? Wow. I guess we can continue to provide aid and sanction Russia, which doesn't seem to be a sanction on Russia so much as a sanction on Western nations pushing them. Here are a few links from loved news sources:

Russia’s Oil Revenue Soars Despite Sanctions, Study Finds

Russia's ruble is the strongest currency in the world this year

The sanctions do not appear to be working. Correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: Also, anybody who sees war firsthand is against it. It is sad to see so many people on here that are now suddenly pro war. This thread has taken a dark turn.

This post reeks of ‘they should stop this war because I might be negatively affected if it goes on much longer’. Absolutely stinks of it.

The two groups of people who consistently want ‘peace’ that involves a negotiated stalemate where Putin gets to keep what he’s taken are:

Russia supporting tankies, who haven’t got the balls to just admit what they really think because they’ll get banned.

Sad sack, selfish little idiots who are more worried about their personal wallets, than the slaughter of innocent human beings.

Fuck the lot of you.

The rest of us aren’t pro-war, we’re pro full and heavy punishment for Russian war atrocities committed on other people, even if that costs the rest of us something personally.

 

[M1chl]

Breakups are hard:

 

[Dr.D00p]

This post reeks of ‘they should stop this war because I might be negatively affected if it goes on much longer’. Absolutely stinks of it.

Its the (Continental) European way.

Its why the Parisian 'Elites' were so willing to surrender France to the Nazis without much of a fight, because they were more concerned about the destruction of a single city than they were about the fate of an entire country & the enslavement of its people.

 

[Lord Panda]

Xi tells Putin his Ukraine invasion is ‘legitimate’

While Germany’s Scholz and France’s Macron ready to visit Ukraine today, the Chinese leader has doubled down on his support for Russia, according to Moscow.

www.smh.com.au

China just can’t help being a cunt.

Meanwhile these CCP arseholes have been making overtures to the Australian government and trying to reset relations. They can go fuck themselves, along with their Russian compatriot pieces of shit.

 

[Tams]

To the resident morons we have, you can't justify these stories, so just leave this forum.

'The Russians said beatings were my re-education'

Ukrainian citizens have told the BBC they were punched and electrocuted before being allowed to leave Mariupol.

www.bbc.com

 

[Bernd Lauert]

It amazes me that there are people who really support Russia. Came across a tosser the other day on FB who not only admitted he's supportive of Russia (had a 'i stand with Russia' banner on his page) but said he's a white supremacist as well!

My grandmother-in-law is Russian and she's a big supporter of Putin. She only watches Russian TV and she's old and uneducated, so it's not a surprise.

 

[Lord Panda]

To the resident morons we have, you can't justify these stories, so just leave this forum.

'The Russians said beatings were my re-education'

Ukrainian citizens have told the BBC they were punched and electrocuted before being allowed to leave Mariupol.

www.bbc.com

Those interviewees are incredibly fortunate to have been let go.

 

[Wildebeest]

Russia has ‘strategically lost’ war, says UK defence chief, as Lavrov says Moscow unashamed

‘Russia is not squeaky clean. Russia is what it is’ – Kremlin foreign minister’s response to UN report claiming atrocities in Ukraine

www.theguardian.com

But how can Russia strategically lose a war when there is no official war and no real strategy other than to commit war crimes and deny them? Putin smert.

 

[Dr.D00p]

But how can Russia strategically lose a war when there is no official war and no real strategy other than to commit war crimes and deny them? Putin smert.

Perception is everything and right now the perception of Russia in the World is that its failed in its objectives, committing atrocities & war crimes on a daily basis and its military is an overrated, incompetent POS.

 

[Tams]

Perception is everything and right now the perception of Russia in the World is that its failed in its objectives, committing atrocities & war crimes on a daily basis and its military is an overrated, incompetent POS.

 

[DeafTourette]

My grandmother-in-law is Russian and she's a big supporter of Putin. She only watches Russian TV and she's old and uneducated, so it's not a surprise.

That mirrors a lot of what some Ukrainians have said about aging parents or other elders living in Russia. I'm sorry, man. I hope Putin gets put out and Russia can be really free again.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Breakups are hard:

Savage.

 

[Karlinel]

How the war ends? Ukraine gets a lot of dead russians to fertilize, russia leaves alone ukraine, putin dies of a ruptured aneurysm while shitting.
Realpolitik players here are ignorant to the extreme. You play realpolitik out of a war, then it’s free for all.

 

[Forsete]

How the war ends? Ukraine gets a lot of dead russians to fertilize, russia leaves alone ukraine, putin dies of a ruptured aneurysm while shitting.
Realpolitik players here are ignorant to the extreme. You play realpolitik out of a war, then it’s free for all.

He apparently shits in a briefcase so no foregin intelligence agency can analyse his perfect health.

Putin's bodyguards collect his poop on trips abroad and take it back to Russia with them, report says

President Vladimir Putin's excrement is taken back to Russia in special packets carried by his bodyguards, two investigative journalists said.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[JayK47]

peace

1. The absence of war or other hostilities.
2. An agreement or a treaty to end hostilities.
3. Freedom from quarrels and disagreement; harmonious relations.

 

[Ulysses 31]

 

[Forsete]

Opsie.

Ammunition detonations in Donetsk. Careless smoker again?

 

[EviLore]

 

[Darius87]

 

[TwinB242]

Opsie.

Ammunition detonations in Donetsk. Careless smoker again?

Thats some good shootin. Imagine what the Ukranians will be able to hit once they have long range MLRS systems.

 

[akimbo009]

Russian tug go boom.

 

[Kraz]

It amazes me that there are people who really support Russia. Came across a tosser the other day on FB who not only admitted he's supportive of Russia (had a 'i stand with Russia' banner on his page) but said he's a white supremacist as well!

Maybe Russia being forced to integrate more with their new economic partners in Russia's suggested G8 replacement -China, India, Russia, Indonesia, Brazil, Mexico, Iran and Turkey- will blunt these attitudes. Immersion can be great for education.

 

[prinz_valium]

http://[URL][URL]https://www.smh.co...aine-invasion-legitimate-20220616-p5au2o.html

[/URL][/URL]

China just can’t help being a cunt.

Meanwhile these CCP arseholes have been making overtures to the Australian government and trying to reset relations. They can go fuck themselves, along with their Russian compatriot pieces of shit.

They have to have that stance if they want to justify their "we also own Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet and other stuff" ideology.

Same reason Sapain doesn't recognize Kosovo. They don't want to support separatist movements.

 

[Kraz]

Opsie.

Ammunition detonations in Donetsk. Careless smoker again?

As smoke signals it reads as Advance.

 

[TwinB242]

DAMN

Kazakhstan's president just straight up said that they wouldn't recognize the Luhansk and Donetsk territories as legitimate states at Russia's economic forum.....right in front of Putin himself

 

[Ozriel]

Well this is a surprise

Then provide them with the weapons to throw back the Russians. More heavy artillery, MLRS and anti-ship missiles. That’s how to do it, not just talk.

 

[Ozriel]

Diplomacy.

It's not easy, but you do what our dear leader Biden claims is his expertise. Getting together the international community to offer carrots and negotiate something based on Minsk I/II where all parties concede something. Perhaps stage it with a measured slow down to the war, reducing in fighting and trade/ssanction punishment for breaking it. Just example. Remember, the UN brokered a ceasefire in Korea successfully with the Soviet/Chinese backing the North in a proxy war AFAIK. The UN used to do things, NATO had KFOR in Bosnia, etc.

I've been out of IR for a decade, but people are paid to do this. Biden's sat on the Foreign Relations committee doing presumable something for longer than I've been alive, fucking do something.

Surely you can’t be this naive?
Russia is hell bent on annexing territory. Your plan calls for Ukraine to give up nearly 20% of their country.

You sat there with a straight face and typed “sanctions if they break the agreement” while Russia is proceeding with their invasion even under the toughest ever sanctions levered against them? Sanctions that have been watered down due to European countries handing them billions in energy payment fees?

Best way to end this war is to fully equip Ukraine to throw back the invaders and then go to the negotiating table.

 

[kurisu_1974]

Over 70% of Putin's military is involved in Ukraine. They have suffered horrific losses and their usable BTG strength is dwindling, it will take years or longer to regain the strength to try what they did with Ukraine again on a fresh nation, wouldn't you agree? The theory this will happen again isn't factoring in the information I see, but I could be wrong. NATO would chew them up in days if tried on an Article5 nation and western intelligence seems to suggest Putin isn't long for the world.

I'm suggesting they have a staged withdrawal to pre-war, Minsk II boundaries, demilitarize the contested areas and stop the killing. If the UN wasn't such a toothless entity they could have a role.

To think Ukraine will fight and push out Russia from not just the eastern contested areas but Crimea and all will just be well is fantasy in my thinking. Russia will scorch earth and everyone will be displaced. Even if they could, at what cost? Real people are dying as we type this and you guys push for war and fighting. The entire world is suffering the consequences of this war, the 3rd world especially in terms of food security and fertilizer and inflation in general.

Again, if you start with $100 and then sit at $85 for a decade before a plummet to near zero and miraculously through bravery and superhuman willpower fight back to 85%... be rational.

Man can you post a picture of your armchair. Must be really something.

 

[zeomax]

DAMN

Kazakhstan's president just straight up said that they wouldn't recognize the Luhansk and Donetsk territories as legitimate states at Russia's economic forum.....right in front of Putin himself

He knows if Ukraine falls Kazakhstan is next in line with "denazification"

 

[funkygunther]

Kazakhstan would prefer to keep its kleptocratic oligarchs unsanctioned

 

[FunkMiller]

Man can you post a picture of your armchair. Must be really something.

 

[InverseAgonist]

Man can you post a picture of your armchair. Must be really something

Assuming you can read, I'd have expected you to realize I'm the one advocating turning off the war.

My 'armchair' quarterbacking is based on my studies and work on Cold War military doctrine at SAIS. I truly believe ending this is the best course of action given the naked war of aggression Putin started in 2022 has been ended and we're back to the Minsk II boundaries. Even the recent French declaration is broadly in line with me. It's the logical and rational situation.

Most everyone else is in favor of sending other people to die while they sit back. *THATS* the ultimate armchair generalship with no skin in the game.

People here go off some heuristic that they think they have certain insight which they believe is *deep* and that Putin = Hitler and must be fought now. Fine. Call your congressman and press for a declaration of war against Russia to depose Putin before another 'Hitler' emerges. Or sanction covert operations to depose him and risk all out war if you truly believe this. But put skin in the game. Stop being a bunch of pussies that want to arm Ukrainians to fight and lose from here on out as the world suffers. The Third World is starving while you complain about gasoline prices.

Again, nobody answered but tell me your ideal end game? How do you guys see this realistically winding down?

 

[kurisu_1974]

"Turning off the war"... Dude really. I'm not claiming to have solutions but I don't think that has ever been a thing. And the things you propose are quite frankly more in Russia's interest than anyone's. I guess my joke deserved your condescending opener though, still makes you look even worse here, fyi.

 

[ManaByte]

DAMN

Kazakhstan's president just straight up said that they wouldn't recognize the Luhansk and Donetsk territories as legitimate states at Russia's economic forum.....right in front of Putin himself