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[Gp1]

 

[Relique]

Please tell us how he didn't deserve it though? The name calling only came when he refused to accept even a single point and dug deeper. Why should this forum have to put up with either idiots or trolls like that?

And you do realise that the Ukrainian subreddits would ban someone like him pronto?

Then again, I recall you having some bad takes in this thread.

Failing to convert someone's opinion should not lead to personal attacks. You tell me how this is a healthy mindset to have. It sounds like a bunch of the posters have never been a part of a civilized real life discussion where people disagree all the time. You can't convince everyone to your viewpoints. What do you achieve by alienating disagreeable people out of the discussion?

And claiming he will be banned elsewhere is not a valid argument for supporting piling on people. If you believe someone overstepped the line and is spewing propaganda you are free to report them and let the mods deal with it. What commonly happens in this thread makes it extremely difficult to have any discussion that falls outside the realm of "Ukraine is crushing this war hurray."

Also, you are free to think my takes are bad or whatever. That doesn't make your voice and those who agree with you the only ones that matter. Let's try to be respectful.

 

[niilokin]

Its not about differing opinions , its about coming in with "truth bombs" that are straight outta russian loony state tv propaganda then acting holier than thou when getting ridiculed. There is no neutral stance in this war no matter how objective you want to be.

 

[sinnergy]

Looks like their aggressive defense moves are paying off! You need to give them as much trouble with supplying their troops as possible , it was also a very smart move to call to evacuate.

 

[Tams]

Failing to convert someone's opinion should not lead to personal attacks. You tell me how this is a healthy mindset to have. It sounds like a bunch of the posters have never been a part of a civilized real life discussion where people disagree all the time. You can't convince everyone to your viewpoints. What do you achieve by alienating disagreeable people out of the discussion?

And claiming he will be banned elsewhere is not a valid argument for supporting piling on people. If you believe someone overstepped the line and is spewing propaganda you are free to report them and let the mods deal with it. What commonly happens in this thread makes it extremely difficult to have any discussion that falls outside the realm of "Ukraine is crushing this war hurray."

Also, you are free to think my takes are bad or whatever. That doesn't make your voice and those who agree with you the only ones that matter. Let's try to be respectful.

It has nothing to do with trying to convert someone's opinion. If he'd come in and said something akin to "I don't think Ukraine are doing so well. They've lost some more villages in the east." then he'd have been treated fairly enough. With some dismissal? Sure, as here is very pro-Ukraine, but it would have been accepted as a fair statement. Even, "Ukraine might be shelling the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant" might have gone down okay.

But no, he came here and wrote a mini-essay on how we are all wrong and worse. Did you even read his first post? Straight into "Poland's going to buy parts of Ukraine". And then, he just dug deeper, and deeper, and deeper, and deeper.

And no, I do not accept the attitude of "We should accept all views." Some views are outright wrong and some even dangerous to be allowed to spread (or at least an attempt be made).

 

[Bernd Lauert]

So much nonsense in this thread from same posters who only quote Ukrainian propaganda sites. Is this thread even valuable?

Short answer: not if you're interested in information regarding the war. It's more of a feel good thread where only one side of war propaganda is being shared. Which is fine I guess, it will just be a bit awkward in hindsight when Russia inevitably wins the war, because the thread reads like Ukraine will occupy Moscow any day now.

 

[PuppetMaster]

And no, I do not accept the attitude of "We should accept all views." Some views are outright wrong and some even dangerous to be allowed to spread (or at least an attempt be made).

Do agree that poster has some bad ideas. But don't agree with this part above.

All ideas are dangerous to someone. But suppression of ideas is even more dangerous!

Ideas should live and die on their own merit. If someone wants to come in here and throw nonsense ideas and be laughed at that is fine and perfectly healthy. As long as it does not devolve into back and forth insults instead of discussion.

If you are so certain they are wrong, you should also be certain thier ideas will not survive the test of time.

 

[IDKFA]

Short answer: not if you're interested in information regarding the war. It's more of a feel good thread where only one side of war propaganda is being shared. Which is fine I guess, it will just be a bit awkward in hindsight when Russia inevitably wins the war, because the thread reads like Ukraine will occupy Moscow any day now.

You serious? No way Russia are winning this war. Ukraine are beating them into submission.

 

[M1chl]

One think to keep in mind is GAF is public forum, so it's not out of reach of Kremlins. But to say that without also saying that mods doing killer job, wouldn't be a complete statement.

 

[Relique]

Do agree that poster has some bad ideas. But don't agree with this part above.

All ideas are dangerous to someone. But suppression of ideas is even more dangerous!

Ideas should live and die on their own merit. If someone wants to come in here and throw nonsense ideas and be laughed at that is fine and perfectly healthy. As long as it does not devolve into back and forth insults instead of discussion.

If you are so certain they are wrong, you should also be certain thier ideas will not survive the test of time.

Pretty much my point. He keeps going back to the argument that the person's takes are bad. I don't agree with them either. That's not the point. Nowhere did I say that we should accept his views. You want to argue against the ideas by all means do that. But that's not what keeps happening here.

Allowing two pages of insults per bad take isn't really constructive. If that's too hard to understand then by all means... Everyone carry on doing what they want. I am about ready to just put this thread on ignore anyway. Like I said there isn't any valuable discussion anymore and this thread isn't good for news either. It's like another person said.. a feel good thread and nothing more.

 

[sinnergy]

Short answer: not if you're interested in information regarding the war. It's more of a feel good thread where only one side of war propaganda is being shared. Which is fine I guess, it will just be a bit awkward in hindsight when Russia inevitably wins the war, because the thread reads like Ukraine will occupy Moscow any day now.

Right .. but what history teaches us, when allied forces medfly with dictators that meddle on a global level .. it doesn’t end well for the evading country .. a war is mostly a marathon, thus war till now is budget wise very cheap for the allied forces.

 

[niilokin]

"why do you believe western and ukrainian propaganda"

also worth noting:
-Russian propaganda aims purely to instill fear and terrorize Ukraine (and West) -> to supplement the death and destruction they cause
-any Ukrainian "propaganda" aims to boost morale of the defenders and lower that of the invaders -> to defend their country

 

[sinnergy]

"why do you believe western and ukrainian propaganda"

also worth noting:
-Russian propaganda aims purely to instill fear and terrorize Ukraine (and West) -> to supplement the death and destruction they cause
-any Ukrainian "propaganda" aims to boost morale of the defenders and lower that of the invaders -> to defend their country

But what’s more amazing that the way Russia uses it , looks like 40 - 50s propaganda, completely ignoring we are in the 21st century, high tech connected , with enough personal resources to do research.. how do you think all these images and footage gets made .. smart phones / drones ..

 

[Tams]

Do agree that poster has some bad ideas. But don't agree with this part above.

All ideas are dangerous to someone. But suppression of ideas is even more dangerous!

Ideas should live and die on their own merit. If someone wants to come in here and throw nonsense ideas and be laughed at that is fine and perfectly healthy. As long as it does not devolve into back and forth insults instead of discussion.

If you are so certain they are wrong, you should also be certain thier ideas will not survive the test of time.

Pretty much my point. He keeps going back to the argument that the person's takes are bad. I don't agree with them either. That's not the point. Nowhere did I say that we should accept his views. You want to argue against the ideas by all means do that. But that's not what keeps happening here.

Allowing two pages of insults per bad take isn't really constructive. If that's too hard to understand then by all means... Everyone carry on doing what they want. I am about ready to just put this thread on ignore anyway. Like I said there isn't any valuable discussion anymore and this thread isn't good for news either. It's like another person said.. a feel good thread and nothing more.

So we have someone who has posted an entire tirade that's pretty entirely false and they won't back down on a single point of it. What do we do?

Well, I've set the muppet on ignore, but I think people are perfectly within their right to do why they think is defending here (whether you think that's worthy or not doesn't matter). If they do so fairly and repeatedly with good points and the other person still won't compromise on anything, then I think it is entirely in their right to start name-calling.

But hey, maybe I'll have to set you two to ignore as well.

 

[Tams]

Short answer: not if you're interested in information regarding the war. It's more of a feel good thread where only one side of war propaganda is being shared. Which is fine I guess, it will just be a bit awkward in hindsight when Russia inevitably wins the war, because the thread reads like Ukraine will occupy Moscow any day now.

I agree that only the Ukrainian side is really being shared, but considering what the Russian side have pretty been confirmed to have done, Russia's history, and the bare naked fact that their invasion is in the wrong, why are you surprised.

Why should we trust anything Russia says when they:

• won't even call it a war
• admit that some of their soldiers committed war crimes
• aren't truthful about what happened to Moskva and Saky - with stories that rapidly changed and contradicted themselves
• are using a nuclear power plant as a shield
• are indiscriminately attacking populated areas with no clear military targets
  • using weapons they know are inaccurate

So, can you and your pals not see why the Russian point of view on this 'special military operation' is considered to be almost worthless?

Ukraine will occupy Moscow any day now.

A very poor reading of the room or a gross exaggeration.

 

[nemiroff]

To any troll who tries to "both sides" this war and expect "balance" I'm sorry but there is none because there's far too much invasion, murdering, torturing and raping going on. Why don't you all rather go ask ruzzia for some "balance" by ending this meaningless war. At the same time ask why you face 15 years in prison if you call this "special operation" a war, where's the "balance" in that. Start there and report back on how your "balance" and "debate" with them went.

 

[ShadowNate]

Eh, Russian propaganda is shared as well.
Or did you somehow forget fat fuck Seagal's delirium in the last page?

 

[M1chl]

But what’s more amazing that the way Russia uses it , looks like 40 - 50s propaganda, completely ignoring we are in the 21st century, high tech connected , with enough personal resources to do research.. how do you think all these images and footage gets made .. smart phones / drones ..

Don't get it in a wrong way, but this is just a part of their propaganda, as it has been said, Russia always put out disinfo in multiple variation, so people who are not comfortable with direct propaganda, get at least something. As in you know when they bombed the super market:
1) Ukraine did it themselves
2) It was military object
3) It was old footage
...

That's how they cover all bases, which then goes back to the point that Ukraine is guilty.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

If European Countries want to be relevant once the real fight for resources starts they have to be under a united banner or else they will be to insignificant to matter.

When not if, imo.

 

[Meicyn]

Short answer: not if you're interested in information regarding the war. It's more of a feel good thread where only one side of war propaganda is being shared. Which is fine I guess, it will just be a bit awkward in hindsight when Russia inevitably wins the war, because the thread reads like Ukraine will occupy Moscow any day now.

No longer satisfied with shitting up gaming threads, I guess you have to play up being the contrarian here too, eh?

 

[Tams]

Don't get it in a wrong way, but this is just a part of their propaganda, as it has been said, Russia always put out disinfo in multiple variation, so people who are not comfortable with direct propaganda, get at least something. As in you know when they bombed the super market:
1) Ukraine did it themselves
2) It was military object
3) It was old footage
...

That's how they cover all bases, which then goes back to the point that Ukraine is guilty.

Worse, they haven't even given up spreading lies.



Context: This is from a Ukrainian film called Region of Heroes.

The embassy. In the country they committed a chemical weapon attack in.

And this embassy has repeatedly posted awful blatant lies. Even getting to the point Twitter restrict their tweets.

And, oi, R Relique , isn't this the kind of content you want in this thread? Facts about what is happening?

 

[Kraz]

Short answer: not if you're interested in information regarding the war. It's more of a feel good thread where only one side of war propaganda is being shared. Which is fine I guess, it will just be a bit awkward in hindsight when Russia inevitably wins the war, because the thread reads like Ukraine will occupy Moscow any day now.

There's Popadantsy news for you now?

 

[Ironbunny]

Feels good thread, western propagnda etc...why dont you guys post something that support your claims?

 

[Kraz]

They're trying to attack morale and make Western people question their reliable news sources so Russians can make some advances.

 

[SpiceRacz]

Failing to convert someone's opinion should not lead to personal attacks. You tell me how this is a healthy mindset to have. It sounds like a bunch of the posters have never been a part of a civilized real life discussion where people disagree all the time. You can't convince everyone to your viewpoints. What do you achieve by alienating disagreeable people out of the discussion?

And claiming he will be banned elsewhere is not a valid argument for supporting piling on people. If you believe someone overstepped the line and is spewing propaganda you are free to report them and let the mods deal with it. What commonly happens in this thread makes it extremely difficult to have any discussion that falls outside the realm of "Ukraine is crushing this war hurray."

Also, you are free to think my takes are bad or whatever. That doesn't make your voice and those who agree with you the only ones that matter. Let's try to be respectful.

It's the same attitude and behavior (and people) from the Covid thread.

 

[Lasha]

Serious question. What happens when this war is over, when Russia are forced back to their homeland and Ukraine has liberated all occupied areas?

Does Ukraine go on the offensive and invade Russia?

Does the world force Russia to pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine? If Russia can't/won't pay, would the EU pay for the rebuild?

What happens is you buy land and property as soon as you get a whiff of victory and ride the massive influx of foreign aid for rebuilding right into the EU. Many countries have committed funds and there's definitely a chance Russian reserves would be garnished for reparations.

Ukraine has no reason to invade Russia once Russian forces have been removed. Ukraine doesn't want or have claims to Russia. It will be too focused on recovering from the destruction caused by Russia.

 

[nemiroff]

I've been so annoyed about not knowing what happened to the airport at Crimea.. I finally found a great video which quenched some of my thirst for what could be the most plausible explanation. This guy even goes into interesting details about how ATACMS work, and it's not how most people think, reality is even more interesting. He's also explaining why the US and Ukraine is most likely more than fine with ruzzias "accident" explanation.

 

[Relique]

Worse, they haven't even given up spreading lies.



Context: This is from a Ukrainian film called Region of Heroes.

The embassy. In the country they committed a chemical weapon attack in.

And this embassy has repeatedly posted awful blatant lies. Even getting to the point Twitter restrict their tweets.

And, oi, R Relique , isn't this the kind of content you want in this thread? Facts about what is happening?

Yes. It's a quality post.

 

[darth.shrimp]

Yes. It's a quality post.

Hey, it worked during WW2, why wouldn't it still work now? It's not like we have much better airborne imagery than we did back then, including satellites and stuff... or that they're actually filming themselves right next to it.

 

[TwinB242]

Ok im now convinced that the EU Visa ban needs to happen

 

[Gp1]

 

[ManaByte]

Yes. It's a quality post.

 

[Mokus]

 

[winjer]

Chief Executive Leadership Institute Research Insights: “Business Retreats and Sanctions Are Crippling the Russian Economy”

som.yale.edu

From our analysis, it becomes clear: business retreats and sanctions are catastrophically crippling the Russian economy. We tackle a wide range of common misperceptions—and shed light on what is actually going on inside Russia, including:

—Russia’s strategic positioning as a commodities exporter has irrevocably deteriorated, as it now deals from a position of weakness with the loss of its erstwhile main markets, and faces steep challenges executing a “pivot to Asia” with non-fungible exports such as piped gas

—Despite some lingering leakiness, Russian imports have largely collapsed, and the country faces stark challenges securing crucial inputs, parts, and technology from hesitant trade partners, leading to widespread supply shortages within its domestic economy

—Despite Putin’s delusions of self-sufficiency and import substitution, Russian domestic production has come to a complete standstill with no capacity to replace lost businesses, products and talent; the hollowing out of Russia’s domestic innovation and production base has led to soaring prices and consumer angst

—As a result of the business retreat, Russia has lost companies representing ~40% of its GDP, reversing nearly all of three decades’ worth of foreign investment and buttressing unprecedented simultaneous capital and population flight in a mass exodus of Russia’s economic base

—Putin is resorting to patently unsustainable, dramatic fiscal and monetary intervention to smooth over these structural economic weaknesses, which has already sent his government budget into deficit for the first time in years and drained his foreign reserves even with high energy prices – and Kremlin finances are in much, much more dire straits than conventionally understood

—Russian domestic financial markets, as an indicator of both present conditions and future outlook, are the worst performing markets in the entire world this year despite strict capital controls, and have priced in sustained, persistent weakness within the economy with liquidity and credit contracting – in addition to Russia being substantively cut off from international financial markets, limiting its ability to tap into pools of capital needed for the revitalization of its crippled economy

 

[ManaByte]

http://[URL]https://som.yale.edu/st...arch-insights-business-retreats-and-sanctions

[/URL]

 

[Tams]

Ok im now convinced that the EU Visa ban needs to happen

Yeah, but the muppets were too emotionally shook to seek out the police. Though could ask those around them what they thought and decided not to when those people said it wasn't worth it.

Then whinged on Twitter. And still don't seem to have gone to the police.

I mean come on!

 

[Fenix34]

So much nonsense in this thread from same posters who only quote Ukrainian propaganda sites. Is this thread even valuable?

Here are a few truthbombs to chew on.

1. Ukraine can't take back shit. Right now they are getting kicked out of their most fortified positions in Donbass and losing 500-1000 men per day. They cannot hold territory or frontline. And people here are talking as if Ukraine has already won everything back and ask about invading Russia as a serious question. In what universe are you living in?

Here is a serious question: when do you think Zalyzhnyy upends Zelensky, which parts of Ukraine will Russia annex in addition to what they have ( Dnipro, Kharkiv, Odessa?) and which parts will be sold to Poland?

2. Kherson bridge is standing and has a backup built right next to it. Russia moved thousands of troops there for defense and potential strike at Mykolaiv if Ukraine does another stupid artillery rotation.

This offensive has been spoken about for months - you think Russia wasn't preparing? It's be the stupidest plan ever. I'd rather believe Ukrainians find another region to strike, preferably the one that doesn't include shelling a nuclear power plant.

3. The only success Ukraine is having is spinning losses into media wins by manipulating the info space. Case-in-point: Russia bombing it's own cities (and mining Donetsk???) or Zaporizhya power plant (?). What doesn't stand to scrutiny to anyone with half a brain is actually taken seriously by many people.

My advice, get some perspective and stop eating one-sided nonsense from Kyiv independent and ISW. Take no facts from Russia or Ukrainian command declarations either, although they probably say truth about strike areas and take ownership of major successes. Otherwise this thread is just political propaganda spewing nonsense.

Last time I was here people told me that it's over and Russia will lose at Severodonetsk. I'm sure same goalpost moving armchair generals will come out of woodworks now to say it's over at Kherson. And when Russia takes Sloviansk they will keep saying the same.

You are from russia today?

 

[M1chl]

You are from russia today?

The place where they ate what they had for tomorrow

 

[Tams]

You are from russia today?

I mean, their username does say it all...

Perhaps it's actually George Galloway and his bloody fedora (not politics, mods, I swear!)?

 

[Fenix34]

The place where they are what they had for tomorrow

What people are work on Russia today?

 

[MisterFalcon]

This is a solid 8 on the Russian Ammo Explosion Quality Scale with the ordnance flying in all directions making up for the lack of huge fireballs.

I really want this war to end to learn how the fuck this is all happening. My money is on a UA spec ops unit driving around Crimea in some captured Russian high end equipment no one would suspect.

 

[Tams]

This is a solid 8 on the Russian Ammo Explosion Quality Scale with the ordnance flying in all directions making up for the lack of huge fireballs.

I really want this war to end to learn how the fuck this is all happening. My money is on a UA spec ops unit driving around Crimea in some captured Russian high end equipment no one would suspect.

Detonating for the past two hours?!

 

[sinnergy]

Detonating for the past two hours?!

Good stuff! Nice plan, take that piece of land back !

 

[FunkMiller]

They're trying to attack morale and make Western people question their reliable news sources so Russians can make some advances.

The most pathetic thing is that they can’t see how transparent and weak their efforts are.

 

[FunkMiller]

I really want this war to end to learn how the fuck this is all happening. My money is on a UA spec ops unit driving around Crimea in some captured Russian high end equipment no one would suspect.

The security at these sites must be absolutely woeful. What does that indicate for wider Russian defences?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Feels good thread, western propagnda etc...why dont you guys post something that support your claims?

It started with the "Ghost of Kyiv" and ended with the "million man offensive" which of course never happened. And I totally get it, war propaganda can be a legit way of keeping up morale for a while. But it's not a permanent solution. For example, some Ukrainians in the Ukraine are already sick of the 24/7 "United News" broadcasting on TV and are rightfully looking for other sources.

 

[M1chl]

What people are work on Russia today?

That's what was said here during Bolshevik era, about "Today's Russia"

 

[Tams]

It started with the "Ghost of Kyiv" and ended with the "million man offensive" which of course never happened. And I totally get it, war propaganda can be a legit way of keeping up morale for a while. But it's not a permanent solution. For example, some Ukrainians in the Ukraine are already sick of the 24/7 "United News" broadcasting on TV and are rightfully looking for other sources.

I don't remember the 'Ghost of Kyiv' gaining any serious traction in this thread and the 'million man offensive' is the first I've ever heard of the term (and I've been very active in this thread ever since any counteroffensive was on the cards).

Of course there's been a belief that the Ukrainian airforce have done well (hard to lose one of your best pilots only now if you've already been eliminated...) and that a hope that an Ukrainian offensive is coming (perfectly reasonable that no major one has happened yet).

I think you're I've misremembering or making stuff up to fit your narrative.

That Ukrainian news sources are pushing positive propaganda is entirely expected and not even worth mentioning unless someone is really blindly believing it. You're not enlightening anyone here with that.

If you want to see a shitshow, go look in some of the 'OSINT' Discord channels. One had someone certain Russia would take Kyiv and even had mods back them up.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I don't remember the 'Ghost of Kyiv' gaining any serious traction in this thread and the 'million man offensive' is the first I've ever heard of the term (and I've been very active in this thread ever since any counteroffensive was on the cards).

Of course there's been a belief that the Ukrainian airforce have done well (hard to lose one of your best pilots only now if you've already been eliminated...) and that a hope that an Ukrainian offensive is coming (perfectly reasonable that no major one has happened yet).

I think you're I've misremembering or making stuff up to fit your narrative.

That Ukrainian news sources are pushing positive propaganda is entirely expected and not even worth mentioning unless someone is really blindly believing it. You're not enlightening anyone here with that.

If you want to see a shitshow, go look in some of the 'OSINT' Discord channels. One had someone certain Russia would take Kyiv and even had mods back them up.

Yeah man don't fall for the propaganda, all those "ammo storehouses" were just fireworks depots - typical ukrainian misinfo.

 

[Meicyn]

It started with the "Ghost of Kyiv" and ended with the "million man offensive" which of course never happened. And I totally get it, war propaganda can be a legit way of keeping up morale for a while. But it's not a permanent solution. For example, some Ukrainians in the Ukraine are already sick of the 24/7 "United News" broadcasting on TV and are rightfully looking for other sources.

We’re not as stupid as you think, and you’re not as smart as you imagine. We can see and smell the shit on the sidewalk, thanks.