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Switch dataminer from Famiboards suggests the Switch 2's portable GPU clocks will be 561MHz. He also said 1.8GHz for the CPU is "hopium"

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Makes sense, that would pretty much be a PS3 to PS4 generational leap. Don't know why anyone would expect much more than that. Did you think we are getting a portable PS5?

But it will also have DLSS, that will elevate it above what the PS4 could do.

Edit: If this is portable, the docked mode should be quite a bit better than PS4. Pro level?
 
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Luipadre

Member
I dont really care about the hw tbh. It will be better than the switch and DLSS means we finally gonna have proper AA in nintendo games and not gonna be a jaggy mess. Im buying a nintendo console for 1st party games, i have pc and pro for 3rd party stuff
 

ReyBrujo

Member
When the chip was revealed (with the pieces breakdown) Switch was going to be about 3 times as powerful as a PS4. So we are at about half that in docked mode, it's kind of excessive to use the other half for DRM though.
 
Nintendo fanboys:
fzfrb9S.gif


Reality kicks in:
weight-lifting-failarmy-1.gif
 

onQ123

Gold Member
Being concerned about the power of Switch 2 is kinda strange.
If you're worried about the graphics you can buy any of these other Handhelds that's out or coming out but for a Nintendo handheld/ console it's going to be all about the Nintendo Games .
 

Buggy Loop

Gold Member
it needs 600MHz exactly for 1.84TFlops to match PS4’s (which is meaningless considering the architectural differences)

But I have another question

WHAT IN THE FUCK is a famiboard data miner? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

This is equivalent to putting anyone making random guesses on Neogaf a Neogaf dataminer. How is this a thread


the « dataminer » says 561, because 560 seems bit too low? 1MHz is now too low?

Come On Biden GIF by GIPHY News
 
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LordOcidax

Member
When the chip was revealed (with the pieces breakdown) Switch was going to be about 3 times as powerful as a PS4. So we are at about half that in docked mode, it's kind of excessive to use the other half for DRM though.
This is almost on par with PS4 (Using TF) in handheld mode… if true.
 

Haint

Member
Source: Reddit

The GPU quote:

> 560 GPU

[His reply:]
> I'd prefer 561 but shrug

[CPU message he replied to:]
> This is probably hopium, but ~1.8 GHz. (100% speculation on my part.)

[His reply:]
> (it is indeed hopium)

This would mean the GPU is around ~1.72 TFLOPS when in portable (if exactly 561 MHz)

That's 1.72 dual issue "fake" terraflops, for comparison the ROG ALLY and all it's Z1E competitors are 8.6 TF's by that metric. The single issue metric all the other consoles and Switch 1 uses would place it around 860Gigaflops, the dual issue compatibility may increase the real world performance roughly 20-30%. 561Mhz in portable is questionable for Samsung 8nm on the tiny battery compartment we've seen from the CAD files.

PS4 performance numbers, yes, but probably games will rut at native 640p in portable mode and be upscaled with this nvidia tech.

don't know about frame gen.

also more ram

so i guess we can expect more than just ps4 prorts. they already say there will be AC Shadows and MGS Triangle on Switch 2. Modern games.

Also Google says Steam Deck is 1.6 TFLOPS. So portably Switch 2 will still be more powerfull + native optimization. and Steam Deck also still can run most of the modern games at least on low settings

So Switch 2 still seems fine for a 400 dollar device.

Steamdeck's 1.6TF is single issue, so Switch 2 portable at these clocks is roughly half the power, 0.86 single issue terraflops . The OP is quoting "fake" double counted flops, simultaneous FP16 and FP32 support. In practice dual issue only adds 15-30%, varying wildly by game, some games basically nothing, some games 30%. The ROG Ally is nearly 9TF's by this metric, or faster than the Switch 3 in 2033. This is their most generationally outdated and underpowered console in raw processing since the OG Wii, and is genuinely the old Switch Pro they rebranded as Switch 2 due to ballooning wafer shortages and prices. 1Ghz docked mode would be 1.5TF's by all the other console's single issue TF ratings, roughly between base Xbox One and base PS4. Supporting dual issue and the "newer" circa 2019/2020 Nvidia cores should push docked mode closer to base PS4, with DLSS likely upscaling a native 900p-1080p render resolution to 1440p.
 
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Pandawan

Member
Aren't you people too optimistic about the price tag?

I personally won't be surprised, if Switch 2 costs $500.
i say what google says according to leaks. i googled switch 2 rumored price and google says 400. it may be 500 but atm no clues it might be that
 
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This is what... almost PS4 performance? I genuinely don't remember the figures at this point.

Either way, the biggest thing to come out of the Switch announce is that we can stop with the baseless speculation and rumor mill (for a few days).

The Teraflop performance is not 1:1 with an Ampere GPU vs a 2012 GCN 2.0 AMD Architecture. 1.72 Teraflops Ampere is way more efficient than 1.84 Teraflops of GCN 2.0.
 
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Parazels

Member
i say what google says according to leaks. i googled switch 2 rumored price and google says 400. it may be 500 but atm no clues it might be that
Google shows $400, because you guys somehow convinced themselves it can't be more expensive.

Meanwhile I still remember those naive $600 expectations for PS5 Pro.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Switch 2 GPU in docked mode appears to run at 1007 MHz, giving 3.1 teraflops or roughly 1/4 of the RTX 3060.

According again to Zachy who posted it on Famiboards.


Other user: “Do we KNOW these clocks are portable? You never know...”

Zachy: “The other GPU one is 1007.3”

The comparison I gave is to the RTX 3060 because it’s an apples to apples comparison without architectural weirdness. Hopefully that gives people at least some context.
 
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Switch 2 GPU in docked mode appears to run at 1007 MHz, giving 3.1 teraflops or roughly 1/4 of the RTX 3060.

According again to Zachy who posted it on Famiboards.


Other user: “Do we KNOW these clocks are portable? You never know...”

Zachy: “The other GPU one is 1007.3”

The comparison I gave is to the RTX 3060 because it’s an apples to apples comparison without architectural weirdness. Hopefully that gives people at least some context.
If true, with the 8 core 72C CPU and 12GBs of ram this is a huge upgrade over standard Switch. First party Switch 2 games going to look amazing.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
That's 1.72 dual issue "fake" terraflops, for comparison the ROG ALLY and all it's Z1E competitors are 8.6 TF's by that metric. The single issue metric all the other consoles and Switch 1 uses would place it around 860Gigaflops, the dual issue compatibility may increase the real world performance roughly 20-30%. 561Mhz in portable is questionable for Samsung 8nm on the tiny battery compartment we've seen from the CAD files.



Steamdecks 1.6TF is single issue, so Switch 2 portable at these clocks is roughly half the power, 0.86 single issue terraflops . The OP is quoting "fake" double counted flops, simultaneous FP16 and FP32 support. In practice dual issue only adds 15-30%, varying wildly by game, some games basically nothing, some games 30%. The ROG Ally is nearly 9TF's by this metric, or faster than the Switch 3 in 2033. This is their most generationally outdated and underpowered console in raw processing since the OG Wii, and is genuinely the old Switch Pro they rebranded as Switch 2 due to ballooning wafer shortages and prices.

Hmm well that sucks if true. That would be way below PS4 performance. Not a generational leap at all, more like PS4 vs PS4 Pro. Well, a bit more I guess. Plus DLSS. But still extremely disappointing after 8 years. If that's true we're basically getting Switch games with better image quality.
 
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llien

Member
Peculiar, how people jump between "but it's faster" and "ok, it kinda sucks, but Nintendo exclusives".

Yes, it's about Nintendo exclusives and portability.


Steam deck has 16GB, mind you. 8 GB , sorry, 12GB ( Bojji Bojji , thanks for correction) might be more of a problem for ports, than meh perf.
 
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Bojji

Member
Peculiar, how people jump between "but it's faster" and "ok, it kinda sucks, but Nintendo exclusives".

Yes, it's about Nintendo exclusives and portability.


Steam deck has 16GB, mind you. 8 GB might be more of a problem for ports, than meh perf.

It has 8, not 12GB?
 
Lol, the state of the art AMD APUs are only slightly more powerful than the Steam Deck, but people on here still think they're getting portable Series X performance from a handheld.

Nobody in here is saying portable Series X. More like portable PS4+. To clarify what I mean by + is not Pro, but with the much more modern GPU architecture, more ram and better CPU I don't see why this couldn't outperform the vanilla PS4 unless they really dial back the clocks even further than these rumors suggest.
 
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FireFly

Member
That's 1.72 dual issue "fake" terraflops, for comparison the ROG ALLY and all it's Z1E competitors are 8.6 TF's by that metric. The single issue metric all the other consoles and Switch 1 uses would place it around 860Gigaflops, the dual issue compatibility may increase the real world performance roughly 20-30%. 561Mhz in portable is questionable for Samsung 8nm on the tiny battery compartment we've seen from the CAD files.
They're not fake teraflops. Ampere adds the ability for the integer unit to process FP32 operations, effectively doubling throughput when integer operations are not required.

"In the Turing generation, each of the four SM processing blocks (also called partitions) had two primary datapaths, but only one of the two could process FP32 operations. The other datapath was limited to integer operations. GA10X includes FP32 processing on both datapaths, doubling the peak processing rate for FP32 operations. One datapath in each partition consists of 16 Ampere GPU Architecture FP32 CUDA Cores capable of executing 16 FP32 operations per clock. Another datapath consists of both 16 FP32 CUDA Cores and 16 INT32 Cores, and is capable of executing either 16 FP32 operations OR 16 INT32 operations per clock. As a result of this new design, each GA10x SM partition is capable of executing either 32 FP32 operations per clock, or 16 FP32 and 16 INT32 operations per clock. All four SM partitions combined can execute 128 FP32 operations per clock, which is double the FP32 rate of the Turing SM, or 64 FP32 and 64 INT32 operations per clock."


So if your application only has FP32 operations, performance will double. The issue is games require integer operations as well, so the real world compute boost in games is less. Nevertheless we can see Ampere parts competing with RDNA 2 parts that have ~0.7x Ampere TF, and we know that RDNA 2 has 1.25X IPC boost over GCN. So a 1.72 TF Ampere part should be roughly equivalent to a 1.2 TF RDNA 2 part or a 1.5 TF GCN part. In other words below the PS4, but probably roughly in line with the Steam Deck's real world performance.
 

baphomet

Member
Nobody in here is saying portable Series X. More like portable PS4+. To clarify what I mean by + is not Pro, but with the much more modern GPU architecture, more ram and better CPU I don't see why this couldn't outperform the vanilla PS4 unless they really dial back the clocks even further than these rumors suggest.

Oops Series S

You're not getting anything remotely above a PS4. You'll probably be getting close to it docked.
 

Bojji

Member
They're not fake teraflops. Ampere adds the ability for the integer unit to process FP32 operations, effectively doubling throughput when integer operations are not required.

"In the Turing generation, each of the four SM processing blocks (also called partitions) had two primary datapaths, but only one of the two could process FP32 operations. The other datapath was limited to integer operations. GA10X includes FP32 processing on both datapaths, doubling the peak processing rate for FP32 operations. One datapath in each partition consists of 16 Ampere GPU Architecture FP32 CUDA Cores capable of executing 16 FP32 operations per clock. Another datapath consists of both 16 FP32 CUDA Cores and 16 INT32 Cores, and is capable of executing either 16 FP32 operations OR 16 INT32 operations per clock. As a result of this new design, each GA10x SM partition is capable of executing either 32 FP32 operations per clock, or 16 FP32 and 16 INT32 operations per clock. All four SM partitions combined can execute 128 FP32 operations per clock, which is double the FP32 rate of the Turing SM, or 64 FP32 and 64 INT32 operations per clock."


So if your application only has FP32 operations, performance will double. The issue is games require integer operations as well, so the real world compute boost in games is less. Nevertheless we can see Ampere parts competing with RDNA 2 parts that have ~0.7x Ampere TF, and we know that RDNA 2 has 1.25X IPC boost over GCN. So a 1.72 TF Ampere part should be roughly equivalent to a 1.2 TF RDNA 2 part or a 1.5 TF GCN part. In other words below the PS4, but probably roughly in line with the Steam Deck's real world performance.


Haha, I love this crazy math. So close to PS4 in raw performance as suspected for months.

Not great, not terrible.
 
With DLSS it could match PS5.

With neutral radio transforming rays, it could take on PS5 Pro.
But as it is a 5000 series tech of pure awesomeness, it probably would not be in Switch 2 yet.

But in Switch 3 it is a given!

If there is one thing we can count on with Switch 2 is devs will definitely heavily rely on DLSS. I just hope its at least DLSS 2.0 quality.
 

Brucey

Member
Recently announced Lenovo Legion Go S with an LCD screen costs $500 without joycons and dock station.
And people praise the price!

How can Switch 2 with better specs cost $400?
Thinking overclocked Switch 1 for $300, and og switch lite at $199.

At $400-$500 that's a lot per kid if you have a larger family.
 

Haint

Member
They're not fake teraflops. Ampere adds the ability for the integer unit to process FP32 operations, effectively doubling throughput when integer operations are not required.

"In the Turing generation, each of the four SM processing blocks (also called partitions) had two primary datapaths, but only one of the two could process FP32 operations. The other datapath was limited to integer operations. GA10X includes FP32 processing on both datapaths, doubling the peak processing rate for FP32 operations. One datapath in each partition consists of 16 Ampere GPU Architecture FP32 CUDA Cores capable of executing 16 FP32 operations per clock. Another datapath consists of both 16 FP32 CUDA Cores and 16 INT32 Cores, and is capable of executing either 16 FP32 operations OR 16 INT32 operations per clock. As a result of this new design, each GA10x SM partition is capable of executing either 32 FP32 operations per clock, or 16 FP32 and 16 INT32 operations per clock. All four SM partitions combined can execute 128 FP32 operations per clock, which is double the FP32 rate of the Turing SM, or 64 FP32 and 64 INT32 operations per clock."


So if your application only has FP32 operations, performance will double. The issue is games require integer operations as well, so the real world compute boost in games is less. Nevertheless we can see Ampere parts competing with RDNA 2 parts that have ~0.7x Ampere TF, and we know that RDNA 2 has 1.25X IPC boost over GCN. So a 1.72 TF Ampere part should be roughly equivalent to a 1.2 TF RDNA 2 part or a 1.5 TF GCN part. In other words below the PS4, but probably roughly in line with the Steam Deck's real world performance.

Thanks, I guess, for retelling what I already said? Did you somehow miss the part where I said "dual issue compatibility may increase the real world performance roughly 20-30%"?
 
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AGRacing

Member
How far ahead is the nvidia architecture of this machine vs. The PS4s GCN architecture (From what… 2011-2012).

I’d say the CPU is probably leagues better than AMD Jaguar cores from the pre-ryzen era.

Add DLSS… yeah I think we can safely assume this will blow a standard PS4 out of the water without issue.
 

Xdrive05

Member
Switch 2 GPU in docked mode appears to run at 1007 MHz, giving 3.1 teraflops or roughly 1/4 of the RTX 3060.

According again to Zachy who posted it on Famiboards.


Other user: “Do we KNOW these clocks are portable? You never know...”

Zachy: “The other GPU one is 1007.3”

The comparison I gave is to the RTX 3060 because it’s an apples to apples comparison without architectural weirdness. Hopefully that gives people at least some context.

Then, all things considered, the "Portable PS4, PS4 Pro when docked" thing looks about right. About there with raw power, plus better (probably much better) CPU and RTX features to go with it.

If true, that's about as good as we could have reasonably hoped for on 8nm at mainstream market pricing, from a Nintendo handheld.

Curious how Nintendo uses this power. Do you think they'll go for their existing art pipelines but with higher resolutions and FPS? Or will they try to push this thing and do some form of ray tracing and high fidelity art at lower resolutions and FPS?
 

llien

Member
Recently announced Lenovo Legion Go S with an LCD screen costs $500 without joycons and dock station.
And people praise the price!

How can Switch 2 with better specs cost $400?
It's a money making platform for Nintendo, they could go with lower margins.
Lenovo aims hundreds of thousands sold units vs tens of millions on Nintendo side, so there is economy of scale on top.
 

LordOcidax

Member
Then, all things considered, the "Portable PS4, PS4 Pro when docked" thing looks about right. About there with raw power, plus better (probably much better) CPU and RTX features to go with it.

If true, that's about as good as we could have reasonably hoped for on 8nm at mainstream market pricing, from a Nintendo handheld.

Curious how Nintendo uses this power. Do you think they'll go for their existing art pipelines but with higher resolutions and FPS? Or will they try to push this thing and do some form of ray tracing and high fidelity art at lower resolutions and FPS?
They actual art style looks really good at high resolution, but i think they are going to push in the graphic department but i just hope they stay away from raytracing.
 
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