DownLikeBCPowder
Member
Just more evidence that exclusivity is dead.
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The Nintendo Switch has 72 First Party games that have sold over 1 million copies - Thegamer.com
Woopah
Member
Which third party games do you think should have sold 1 million in that period?Considering that there are thousands of games on Switch this is a low number. As refference, according to Nintendo only seven 3rd party games achieved 1M unit sold from April to December.
LordOcidax
Member
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
There's only Helldivers 2, Demon's Soul, Spider-Man 2, Rift Apart and Astro Bot. So not really.
That's just some speculation.
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700 million is a low number?
Then tell third-parties they need to give back the revenue they generated from those 700 million units sold and look at their reactions.
Or let's put it this way:
Switch is by far the Nintendo console with the highest number of physical game releases (2286 as March 2024, 2182 of which are third-party).
If third-party game sales weren't high enough, as you claim, and not worth it then you can be assured publishers wouldn't fork the money to make advanced payments to get their physical games produced by Nintendo and manage the inventory risk related to unsold copies.
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Woopah
Member
Hogwarts, FC 2025, DQ3 HD and Minecraft I think are likely. Not sure how well NBA sells on Switch.
I don't think GTA Trilogy has been charting high enough in the digital rankings to have sold 1 million in the last 9 months. And Momotaro Dentetsu World only sold around 200,000 copies in that time period, so is also very unlikely to have crossed 1 million.
We know Returnal, Stellar Blade and Rise of Ronin surpassed a million, plus GT7, Ragnarök and Horizon: Forbidden West will have passed that mark on PS5 as well. There's also a good chance TLoU2 Remastered sold over a million on PS4, and some of the MLB games too,
Kacho
Gold Member
ArtHands
you're approaching this like most people do on an enthusiast forum. We ignore slop like MLB which is multiplatform and cross-gen games. We judge a consoles worth by how many true exclusives they have. No one but hardcore sales people consider Stellar Blade and Rise of the Ronin "Sony" games, for example. It's one of those, well akshually, arguments.
SenkiDala
Member
Yes it's really not relevent anymore. Before it was the BEST games that were exclusives, such as Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Silent Hill, Tekken, Halo when it was strong enough.
Now the exclusives are Horizon (average game series), Halo isn't as great as it was, and some AAA "not bad" games.
Woopah
Member
If you're going compare consoles in terms of first party games, then you have to use the same definition of first party for all platforms.
If you count the games that take Switch to 72, then you have to count RotR and Stellar Blade for PS5.
Kacho
Gold Member
Technically, sure. I personally wouldn’t count Octopath as a Nintendo Switch exclusive just because Nintendo published it for a period of time.
Woopah
Member
Ultimately that is the difference between a first party game and third party game, who the publisher is.
Stellar Blade is just as first party as Bayonetta 3 and Rise of the Ronin is just as first party Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3.
LimanimaPT
Member
20 Mario games on that list. They can make a game called Super Mario Craps He's Pants and it would make that list.
Kacho
Gold Member
Embearded
Member
Great accomplishment for Nintendo, especially if you think that most of the titles must have had a significant smaller budget than the 1st party of their competitors and Nintendo doesn't do deep sales.
Personally, i see some titles in that list that could be freeware in Play Store but even if i try to downplay the quality of their games, it speaks even more for Nintendo, as they sell over a million copies of these games.
Anyway, try to read that list and replace "Mario" with God Of War, Pokemon with Spiderman and Zelda with Horizon.
Such a PS5 lineup would feel very boring to me.
Personally, i see some titles in that list that could be freeware in Play Store but even if i try to downplay the quality of their games, it speaks even more for Nintendo, as they sell over a million copies of these games.
Anyway, try to read that list and replace "Mario" with God Of War, Pokemon with Spiderman and Zelda with Horizon.
Such a PS5 lineup would feel very boring to me.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Those games are either (partially) cross-buy with PS4, or not first party games. They are PS4/5 games.
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Woopah
Member
If a first party game sells 1 million units on PS5, then its a PS5 million seller. There's no "PS4/PS5" category on that list.
BOTW is still a Switch million seller, even though it was cross gen. Same with Captain Toad Treasure Tracker being a Switch milion seller or Twilight Princess being a Wii million seller.
And every game I mentioned is first party as they are all published by Sony. It's the methodology used to get 72 first party million sellers for Switch.
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Lionel Richie
Member
I love broken Switch sales numbers. New Horizons sold more copies than the entire Last of Us franchise combined. Luigi's Mansion 3 was the best selling survival horror game until Resi 2 Remake surpassed it recently. Suika Game sold better than Bloodborne.
Woopah
Member
Which ones do you think would be freeware?
yurinka
Member
Yes, this is the reason of why most main 3rd party publishers don't properly support Nintendo devices since the N64: because they don't make enough money there.700 million is a low number?
Then tell third-parties they need to give back the revenue they generated from those 700 million units sold and look at their reactions.
Or let's put it this way:
Switch is by far the Nintendo console with the highest number of physical game releases (2286 as March 2024, 2182 of which are third-party).
If third-party game sales weren't high enough, as you claim, and not worth it then you can be assured publishers wouldn't fork the money to make advanced payments to get their physical games produced by Nintendo and manage the inventory risk related to unsold copies.
They release most of their main games instead in other devices that gives them way more money: PS, PC and (in a smaller scale, basically because the port is almost free having a PS version) Xbox.
Out of over 2182 3rd party Switch games, plus thousands more of digital only ones, only 7 of them managed to sell 1M copies during these most recent 9 months on Switch. This isn't good at all.
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justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
Look at how much emulation hurt Nintendo business... Poor Nintendo..
Woopah
Member
It's the other way around, third party games sell less on Switch because it doesn't they don't support it as much.
Third parties were hesitant to support Switch in 2017 (understandable after the Wii U) and so sales were low. When they increased support in the later years, their sales got way better.
If they want to increase sales again, they need to further increase support and this is what we will see with Switch 2.
What would be a good number for third party games hitting a million on Switch in that time period? Which third party games do you think should have done that?
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Shaki12345
Member
Nintendo easily winning the console wars without even taking part.
E-Cat
Member
That only strengthens the narrative
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
That’s not how it counted though in the list. I don’t think there’s a need to change the criteria. BOTW is not a crossbuy game. You don’t get a copy of Switch version when you buy it on Wii U, solely because the Switch doesn’t have backward compatibility.
It is different from something like Gran Turismo 7 where Sony will lump the sales of both PS4 and PS5 together.
Woopah
Member
They are lumped together, but I'm saying it should count if at least 1 million of those units are on PS5
GT7 has sold over 13 million units. I'd say its very unlikely that fewer than 1 million of those sales came from the PS5.
Otherwise it's not an accurate list, as you are excluding a whole bunch of Sony first party million sellers just because they are cross gen.
yurinka
Member
You can check the software revenue (game + addon sales) from Nintendo and PS for let's say a quarter, or FY, in their reports. Then you subtract from there the percent of first party sales from there to get an approximation of the 3rd party revenue made there. You'll notice a huge difference on PS's favor. And well, it's also worth mentioning that a huge chunk of 3rd party revenue goes to a few top games (in case of Switch, pretty likely stuff like Minecraft and Fornite).
The revenue that 3rd party games make on PS is the good number that 3rd parties should achieve in Switch 1 or 2.
The issue is that due to lack of horsepower, most people have Nintendo consoles as secondary device to play the Nintendo games, and prefer to play the 3rd party games on the big consoles when also available on Switch.
Until PC handhelds started to be common, Switch got benefited from being the Vita successor as the only portable indies (+ a few AAAs) device. If PC handhelds keep evolving and become cheaper, may take that role from Switch.
I think the only way Nintendo has to get major support of 3rd parties again, having all the main publishers releasing all their big games there, is to make the console powerful enough to be able to run their big AAAs at decent performance and not losing a lot of fidelity, something similar to Series S but portable.
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Woopah
Member
If they want to get a similar amount of money as PS, they have to give it similar support.
It wouldn't makes sense for third parties to be disappointed in the sales of COD, Dragon Ball Sparking Zero, Tekken 8 or Rebirth on Switch. Those games aren't on it.
That's why I want to know why you think 7 million sellers is low. How many do you think Switch should have in that period? 10, 15, 20?
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yurinka
Member
I don't know, maybe at least 3 or 4 per top 3rd party publisher (Microsoft, EA, Take 2, Bandai Namco...) and maybe at least one or two per big publisher (Ubisoft, Capcom, Square Enix, Sega, Devolver...).
So maybe minimum over 35 or 40 from big or top publishers, and then minimum 3 or 4 more from all indies and small publishers combined.
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700 million units sold on Switch without GTA:V, RDR2, yearly Madden, yearly COD, and etc is a testament of a great platform for 3rd party.
yurinka
Member
700M split on like over 12000 Switch games (tracked by MobyGames) released is pretty awful. Even more considering sales are always focused on a few top sellers.
Again, out of these thousands of 3rd party games only 7 achieved 1M sales from start of April to end of December. Sales are pretty bad outside a few lucky ones.
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Robb
Gold Member
yurinka
Member
I said over 5000 but it's even worse: there are over 12000 Switch games. 700M/12000= average of 58K units per game.
Relative to the other current gaming platforms, mainly PS and PC (in the past sales on Xbox were good, now are crap).
Compared to past Nintendo platforms, the amount of games released highly increased, being a big percentage of them shovelware stuff. The average sales per game decreased.
I mean, I look at this list of top selling Switch games and as 3rd party games there's only MH Rise, Stardew Valley, Minecraft, Octopath Traveller, Among Us, DB Fighterz, Human Fall Flat, DBZ Xenoverse 2, Naruto trilogy, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, Just Dance 2023 and a few more. Most of them having sold under 2-3M copies.
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Woopah
Member
I don't see how that would be possible.
FIFA had a chance and is probably one of them that did hit that milestone, whereas NBA I think probably didn't hit 1 million on Switch. But i have no idea how you could expect Take 2 or EA to have 4 games sell over a million on Switch in the last 9 months.
What 4 games each from Microsoft, EA and Take 2 and Bandai Namco should have sold 1 million copies on Switch in that period?
Most of those are indie games. Many high profile 3rd party games flopped on PS5 in 2024.
For example
1. FF7 Rebirth
2. Starwars Outlaws
3. Veilguard
4. Dragon Quest 3 Remake(less than 20% of total sales in comparison to Switch with 80%)
5. Visions of mana
6. Foamstars
7. Rise of ronin
8. Skulls and bones
9. Prince of Persia lost crown(Sold more on Switch)
10. Dragons Dogma 2(Sold more on PC)
Woopah
Member
Well firstly that 700 million+ won't include digital only games as I've explained to you before.
And secondly there is no official list of top 30 Switch games. The Wikipedia page you are looking is wildly inaccurate. To get an idea of how inaccurate, try looking at the PS5 one.
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yurinka
Member
I got another list, that seems more complete and accurate looking at the sources: https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_Switch_games
These ones may not have achieved sales estimations but didn't flop at all. Also, when did Ubisoft say Lost Crown sold more on Switch and when did Capcom say Dragons Dogma 2 sold more on PC?
And well, most of the games you listed sold more than the entire list of 3rd party games in Switch history with the exception of around half a dozen or a dozen games or so.
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Woopah
Member
Its still mostly based on the same flawed data set as the Wikipedia ones.
You have a bunch of Nintendo, Capcom and Bandai Namco games because they reports sales by platform to investors and/or CESA. And it contains a lot of Switch exclusives because we know all their sales are Switch sales.
But for example there's no DQIII HD or Hogwarts Legacy there, because we don't have Switch specific numbers.
Even so, that list still has several third party million sellers on Switch. If third parties want more million sellers, they have to put games on the platform. Big third parties cannot reasonably expect to get 3 or 4 games to sell 1 million copies every fiscal year if they don't put games of that calibre on the platform. It doesn't make sense.
Like, what 4 games each from EA / Take 2 / Microsoft should have sold 1 million in those 3 quarters?
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I see you can't read.
Who do I trust? publishers who fork the money for physical cart runs or a random forum user?
Not only are the physical releases way higher than any previous Nintendo console, the extent of the overlap between PS4 and NSW software library is also unprecedented.
You wouldn't get both trends if the situation was worrying for third-parties as you stated.
You don't know what you are talking about.
Third-party game sales of about 700M refers to titles with physical release thus should be around 2500-2600 games (if we go by the american game releases) by the end of 2024.
The average though won't tell much because not every game is equal (in budgets, expectations, appeal).
Even with the same franchise name, it won't tell much without knowing the context.
The Witcher III on Switch is above 2 million units, which isn't much compared to the whole volume of sale for the game.
However the Switch version came out 4 and half years after the PC, PS4 and XBO versions...
For CD Projekt it was a good bussiness decision because the cost of the port that enabled millions of additional sales was much smaller than the creation of a whole new big budget game.
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yurinka
Member
You're the one who can't read. You shouldn't trust me.
You should read and trust Nintendo and Sony fiscal reports to see and understand that fact that 3rd parties have been making way more money on PS than in Nintendo every single generation since the PS1.
And also the read and trust the list of platforms of where most main 3rd party games are published, you'll see that it is a fact that most AAA 3rd party games are not on Nintendo platforms but are in PS.
And when published in both platforms, read their sales split when/if shared by these 3rd party publishers (not by fanboy estimates by random users, vgchartz etc): you'll see almost always they sell way worse in Nintendo than in PS.
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Woopah
Member
Why do you keep making it about Sony vs. Nintendo? At no point in any of the posts in this thread has Celine said third parties make more money on Switch than PS. What he has correctly pointed is out is that there is a high number of third party sales on Switch.
blacktout
Member
Do you have any examples of this that are day-and-date releases and not extremely late ports? The only recent day-and-date Switch/PlayStation release I can think of that wasn't an indie game is Dragon Quest 3 HD-2D and all indications are that that sold substantially better on the Switch.
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Woopah
Member
Its sold more launch aligned, but not more in total yet. The final total was 1.537 billion so Switch has some way to go yet
Depends on the game. Switch doesn't have great sales for Sports games for example, so games like FIFA, NBA and MLB are likely to sell much more on PS than Switch.
I still have no idea why
yurinka
was upset with the fact that Nintendo 1st party games sold more than PlayStation 1st party games and tried to derail the thread with 3rd party game sales.
One more fact that probably will make him angrier than before: MK8D made more profits than all Sony 1st-party games on PS5 combined.
yurinka
was upset with the fact that Nintendo 1st party games sold more than PlayStation 1st party games and tried to derail the thread with 3rd party game sales. One more fact that probably will make him angrier than before: MK8D made more profits than all Sony 1st-party games on PS5 combined.
Grizzled Ghost
Member
Wow, that's very impressive.
The real surprising one for me is the OG Gameboy though. 42 is wild. I would've guessed 10 or under.
The real surprising one for me is the OG Gameboy though. 42 is wild. I would've guessed 10 or under.
Woopah
Member
There was 5 from Pokémon alone, plus all those Mario, Kirby and DK platformers.