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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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A

AzureSky

Member
The Queen should step up, declare the democracy experiment has failed and stop this foolishness.

Not a constructive post, i know. Sorry about that.
Just cant belive this is actually happening.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
So I'm trying to understand everything as an American. I paid some attention to Brexit knowing it's result would affect world markets but I wasn't super glued in. From I'm reading the Leave campaign basically lied on their big promises that resulted in people to vote leave. So they recant on their pledges and now have no plan for exit? Amazing.

I feel bad for the UK people because I think even the Leave people are realizing this vote put them in a position of weakness. UK going to get their freedom from the EU but there will be unintended consequences. I don't see how EU gives the UK a sweet deal considering they just have EU the finger. Especially since it sounds the UK has the sweetest deal of all EU countries. Sad situation all around.

I hope US politicians are paying attention to what happened in the UK and the rise of Trump. Hillary will win this year but I fear what may happen 20 years from now.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Davilmar said:
Let's say that the United Kingdom would be able to stay in the EU. What likely conditions would France and Germany impose to allow the Brits to stay? Would we likely see them adopting the Euro as a condition?
Click to expand...

Technically there's no reason EU would put conditions on the UK staying, since by default they're already in and haven't done anything "wrong" to get kicked out.
I'm sure many members would like to renegociate all their little "special accomodations" though, like the 6 billion € rebate.
 
D

diaspora

Member
Sax1031 said:
yea and Obama was lying to scare monger the UK citizens into voting remain.

the UK isn't getting pushed to the back of the line in trade negotiations.
Click to expand...

Uh, no. The UK is taking a backseat or at least low/lower priority to most trade negotiations. It doesn't make sense to prioritize the UK when you have the EU.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
Davilmar said:
Let's say that the United Kingdom would be able to stay in the EU. What likely conditions would France and Germany impose to allow the Brits to stay? Would we likely see them adopting the Euro as a condition?
Click to expand...

'So as a reward for ignoring your democracy, you get to join the Euro!'

I want this to happen, just to see the reactions.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
My guess is, the longer the UK takes to decide, the worse the EU will make it for them. That's in addition to damage done by market uncertainty.
 
B

Beefy

Member
German Chancellor Angela Merkel's chief of staff has said politicians in London should be able to have the chance to think again about the consequences of leaving the European Union.

"Politicians in London should have the possibility to reconsider the consequences of an exit," the RND newspaper network on Sunday quoted Merkel's chief of staff, Peter Altmaier, as saying.

If Britain really left, that would be "a difficult watershed with many consequences," RND quoted Altmaier as saying. Of course Britain could apply to rejoin the EU later, RND reported him as saying, "but that would take a long time."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...4af8&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
 
D

Daemul

Member
LIke, I know we're all having fun and all joking about Cameron, Boris and co hiding in their bunkers, but seriously where the fuck is our government? This is a time when they're needed most and they've barely said fuck all.
 
O

oti

Banned
Alx said:
Technically there's no reason EU would put conditions on the UK staying, since by default they're already in and haven't done anything "wrong" to get kicked out.
I'm sure many members would like to renegociate all their little "special accomodations" though, like the 6 billion € rebate.
Click to expand...

The Eastern EU bloc would be furious if everything went to Business as Usual after this.
 
G

GamerMax73

Member
Kadayi said:
It's not up to Germany to decide.
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Of course its not but we're not going to jump straight in to formal negotiations tomorrow, and we're not going to start even informal negotiations by actively pissing off those we are negotiating with. If we are leaving and want the best deal then we need to work with France and German, who both have more important domestic things to worry about.

If on Monday the UK economy starts tanking dramatically Cameron will be on the first flight to Brussels with a Tory Whip up his arse to formally invoke it, regardless of how reluctant he might personally be is to do the deed himself.
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Would he? Would article 50 stabalise the situation, or make it worse? Would he take the risk? Plan A) let the next poor sucker sort the mess out.

Sure once it's underway there's every opportunity for it to get drawn out in terms of process, but establishing the roadmap of transition is going to happen sooner rather than later, otherwise not only is the UK economy likely to flatline through investor uncertainty but the next election will be a bloodbath for any politician who fails to demand the referendum be acted upon.
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Unless an early general election is called and won by a 'lets wait and see', or 'we better not do this after all' party.

This conceit that somehow the leave camp are all going to be 'I made a huge mistake' and eat humble pie is a pipedream spun by a media still reeling from Friday's results, citing a few hangovers as a tidal wave of regret. If anything procrastination by either the government or the EU to start the process will simply encourage many of these people to double down in the face of what they would see as EU tyranny and a failure of democracy.
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Yeah, I agree totally. But I would say that article 50 isn't necessarily starting the process. Informal talks would be.
 
D

darkwing

Member
Daemul said:
LIke, I know we're all having fun and all joking about Cameron, Boris and Co hiding in their bunkers, but seriously where the fuck is our government? This is a time when they're needed most and they've barely said fuck all.
Click to expand...

looking for the £350M for this week
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Daemul said:
LIke, I know we're all having fun and all joking about Cameron, Boris and Co hiding in their bunkers, but seriously where the fuck is our government? This is a time when they're needed most and they've barely said fuck all.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about that now. Labour are over there doing stuff. quick, look over there. Ignore the train wreck.
 
DCharlie

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Kabouter said:
As long as Britain hasn't triggered art. 50, none.
I can't imagine it won't exit though.
.
Click to expand...

Cameron has shafted Boris on this - "You want to be PM? Sure - here you go - now, if you could just sign this here that says you are the man making the final decision then that'd be grand"

He won't. Boris hasn't got the stomach for it. And strangely everyone has gone missing and there's no plan to speak of -at all-.
 
D

Dennis

Banned
The UK is going to leave the EU

You can't just ignore the vote like that.

It would be an absolute betrayal of democracy. What legitimacy would remain?

Any extremist malcontents would be able to defend their actions with: "Well, they don't accept democracy, why should we?"
 
L

Lime

Member
So my friend ended up with 557 total respondents and these were his results:

My conclusions are:
a) For 23.48% of Leave voters Immigration was the main reason for voting. Not the only reason, but the main reason
b) 40% of Leave voters believe that Immigrants do NOT contribute positively to the UK society. As opposed to 97.25% of the Remain voters who believe they DO contribute positively to the UK society
c) 44.1% of Leave voters quote "We need to retain our british culture" as the main reason fewer immigrants should be let in to the UK. With a stronger importance than their influence on the economy
d) 2.62% of Leave voters answer that Immigrants "Do not belong here"
e) 22.61% of Leave voters say that "Current immigrants living in the UK should be asked to move back home" as opposed to 3.63% of the Remain voters in the same survey

I think there is a case in this data to say that for many voters Immigration and Xenophobia played a larger than negligible part for their reason to vote as they did. If not only to understand the undertones of what the Leave voters answer when asked on the topics of Immigration.

Lastly 6.09% of Leave voters say they will NOT have voted the same if there was a new vote for Brexit. This means that of the 1,060,314 of the 17,410,742 Leave voters would vote Remain if asked to vote again.
Click to expand...
 
P

Polk

Member
Alx said:
Technically there's no reason EU would put conditions on the UK staying, since by default they're already in and haven't done anything "wrong" to get kicked out.
Click to expand...
I think it will be waay harder for UK members of EP to get appointed for remotely significant positions in near future even if UK stay quiet with Art50.
 
H

heidern

Junior Member
Davilmar said:
Let's say that the United Kingdom would be able to stay in the EU. What likely conditions would France and Germany impose to allow the Brits to stay? Would we likely see them adopting the Euro as a condition?
Click to expand...

UK is still part of the EU, France and Germany are powerless to do anything. If UK leaves then they can put in conditions for reentry but as it is, UK is still part of the team.

So on the one hand for EU, UK leaves and also leaves a £10B a year hole in the budget, has a weaker currency so EU exporters are hit and all the other economic and political fallout(copycat exiters across EU empowered, Russia emboldened, Greece potentially pushed over the edge).

On the other hand UK stays in but there's uncertainty because the leave campaign would just continue fighting for another referendum(right wingers across Europe would also get more ammunition at the undemocratic EU). Uncertainty being bad for investment.
 
J

Jimbob Smalls

Banned
nOoblet16 said:
It's only a problem because people think it's a problem. It doesn't bring anything but profit. The net migration rate of UK is extremely low and they always lump in the numbers from non EU countries to make it look big...and include non EU students who make up for the biggest group of non EU migrants and do nothing but pay.

People also have no clue about what Freedom of Movement actually is hence the sentiments that the migrants come here and reap benefits and do nothing. Despite the freedom of movement, you cannot just travel and do nothing except take job seeker benefits for more than 3 months, if you are then you will most likely be asked to leave. That's how it is in EU.
Click to expand...

In work benefits are available straight away though, this is the loophole that gets used and abused.
 
F

Famassu

Member
Dennis said:
The UK is going to leave the EU

You can't just ignore the vote like that.

It would be an absolute betrayal of democracy. What legitimacy would remain?

Any extremist malcontents would be able to defend their actions with: "Well, they don't accept democracy, why should we?"
Click to expand...
It's a near 50/50 result and it's not a legally binding referendum. There's a perfectly valid argument to be made that a referendum result like this should not be blindly followed, especially when xenophobia and lies were the main driving forces behind the winning side.
 
M

MrHoot

Member
jakonovski said:
How about asking him to back up all the claims and numbers he's putting out, because they're obviously all made up.
Click to expand...

I did, the supposed 128 billion out of nowhere is what perplexes me the most. It's also very hard to do research right now as results point to newspaper excerpts regarding brexit.

The biggest is that he was conflating the 4.1 billion that comes from the EU membership with "single market"
 
P

Pandy

Member
heidern said:
I assume the Tories will run on a pro-leave ticket. If there's any hint of them them regressing on the referendum in an election then they'll suffer like the Lib Dems did over tuition fees. However if they are pro-leave then that makes UKIP a bit redundant so the Tories could win votes back from them.

Perhaps we could have a new party with Pro-Eu Tories and New Labour to go in between Boris and Corbyn.
Click to expand...

In the medium-long term, it's clear that there's going to be some political shifting and possibly a splinter party or two.

In the short term, I agree. If the Tories run on a pro-Remain ticket they're essentially ruling themselves out of the contest deliberately.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
heidern said:
UK is still part of the EU, France and Germany are powerless to do anything. If UK leaves then they can put in conditions for reentry but as it is, UK is still part of the team.

So on the one hand for EU, UK leaves and also leaves a £10B a year hole in the budget, has a weaker currency so EU exporters are hit and all the other economic and political fallout(copycat exiters across EU empowered, Russia emboldened, Greece potentially pushed over the edge).

On the other hand UK stays in but there's uncertainty because the leave campaign would just continue fighting for another election(right wingers across Europe would also get more ammunition at the undemocratic EU).
Click to expand...

Would they though? In the UK? If somehow we manage to not leave, sure some sections of the public would be pissed but Boris, Gove and hell even Farage - I can't imagine they'd be game at all for a rerun of this shit show when in the last two days theyve been absolute shits and lie after lie has unraveled
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
Respect said:
dd4c06d165102b8c3696f703eb8f4467f81c9123fa11ab201ed0f86955b425c3.jpg
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One of the best dr who episodes .. i guess i can at least look forward to the next 2 seasons.
 
K

kmag

Member
heidern said:
UK is still part of the EU, France and Germany are powerless to do anything. If UK leaves then they can put in conditions for reentry but as it is, UK is still part of the team.

So on the one hand for EU, UK leaves and also leaves a £10B a year hole in the budget, has a weaker currency so EU exporters are hit and all the other economic and political fallout(copycat exiters across EU empowered, Russia emboldened, Greece potentially pushed over the edge).

On the other hand UK stays in but there's uncertainty because the leave campaign would just continue fighting for another election(right wingers across Europe would also get more ammunition at the undemocratic EU).
Click to expand...
£7bn hole out of a £140bn pot
 
R

RedSparrows

Member
Alx said:
I honestly can't believe that. It seems completely irresponsible to play with such important matters with such a small margin of error. That's Bond villain level or ridiculous. Like "I triggered a nuclear crisis as a diversion for a bank robbery".
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put it past Johnson, who genuinely is a snake.
 
P

Plum

Member
liquidtmd said:
Question Time on BBC1 in 35min.

Shit is going to go DOWN. Pray for whoever the hell has dared come out of the bunkers
Click to expand...

I'm fully expecting Dave Nobody from Wiltshire to come on and answer no questions at all about the EU.

Westminster is fucking terrified right now.
 
P

Purkake4

Banned
AzureSky said:
The Queen should step up, declare the democracy experiment has failed and stop this foolishness.

Not a constructive post, i know. Sorry about that.
Just cant belive this is actually happening.
Click to expand...
A final move from the Queen, dissolve the Parliament and call new elections. This would end the monarchy and make her the last queen of the United Kingdom, the hero Britain needs.

Kidding, obviously.
 
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