So a campaign built on lies is preferable in your opinion? And to top it off, look at the disarray the government is in, the "winners" don't even have a plan....we won, someone else deal with the fallout, I'm going play cricket.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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So a campaign built on lies is preferable in your opinion? And to top it off, look at the disarray the government is in, the "winners" don't even have a plan....we won, someone else deal with the fallout, I'm going play cricket.
Meh, I think the complete lack of anything even ressembling a plan from the UK will scare the shit out of the markets. Probably why Merkel made her comment.
At least the EU has managed to look somewhat proffessional and ready to deal with Brexit, and least that's something.
This comes across a huge amount like that South Park episode after Obama got elected
One side hanging themselves, the other side saying its all gonna be great
RedSparrows
Member
Of course everyone has an agenda, but that does not thus make all agendas equal, in both merit and intention. It's cowardly to hide behind that.
As for democracy. It is democracy, yup. But one reason people are so angry is that this isn't an election we can 'sort out' in 4 years time. It's, potentially, permanent, at least in all relevant periods of time, i.e. our lifetimes.
Alx
Member
From an external point of view (not British here), I think that division is the first issue you should work on solving. You won't be able to focus on the other problems if you keep opposing Remainers and Brexiters. Not that I know how you'll manage it since the division seems to be very deep...
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Me and my mum laughed at this for a good minute.
Nothing is going to happen now until Cameron is gone. He's already said this is someone else's mess.
The economy aside, this is the biggest issue and why I think it would better if our government - in whatever guise it must take - should just wake up, look at what's going on around them (online, on TV, in the streets), and call the whole thing off. Don't wait, don't discuss it, just fucking end it.
Night Angel
Member
Must be hard being so terribly judgmental. Don't know how you managed this long.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
My sister-in-law is of Romanian roots and a high level manager at a major corporation that has an office in the north. At work, she was told by an employee that they voted leave because they didn't want to see their kids wearing burka's at school and they wanted the Poles and Romanians to go back home. She told her, "you do realise that I'm Romanian, right?" And no, she didn't. It amazingly didn't occur to her that someone she knew and respected could possibly be one of them. She was in tears after.
The fear and ignorance that led to leave is astounding.
The fear and ignorance that led to leave is astounding.
illusionary
Member
This has been me since Friday morning.
Yeah, I'd have to admit to this crossing my mind a few times, too.
I missed this evening's Question Time and am planning to watch it a little later on iPlayer... but I just know that it's going to leave me feeling more worried. Maybe I should break out the Thick Of It box set for some light relief...
Mt Heart Attack
Member
Just imagine how frustrating it is to live here as a EU migrant right now.. Although I can find solace in the fact that about 70% in central London (where I work in a tech company) and in the borough where I live have voted for remain.
Still, I always felt at home here since the moment when I first set foot in the country, but not that much anymore.
While I'm aware that nothing has materially changed yet, I feel the toxicity, I find myself slightly annoyed at every British person I meet, thinking they might have voted Leave, I don't like that one bit and I don't see myself staying here in the long term as I wanted to until a few days ago.
That was super annoying. Is this how most Brits view this? It was like the idea of Scotland's pm doing what is best for her people was mind altering. Like it was unthinkable that Scotland's wouldn't just follow along.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
The BBC keeps doing a breaking news bulletin for each resigning Labour cabinet member.
This is like the 24 one or something. lol
This is like the 24 one or something. lol
PJV3
Member
If this starts going off the rails I expect parliament to act. Otherwise it can start working out what leave the EU means and try to sort it out.
I too would be pissed if a majority of voters tanked the economy, the UK is being dissolved, and emboldened the racists. Trump, Putin, Viktor Orban, Marie Le Pen, Gert Wilders, Golden Dawn, fucking Sarah Palin, are applauding what you've done.
Congratulations, you played yourself couldn't be more appropriate
They are in denial. By all accounts she has the ability to stop this thing dead. She has the cards and she has the support of her country. She should do it.
The thing is ALL of the experts came out in favour of remain. We're seeing now that those experts are right. In Politics blind paranoia is sheer idiocy, all it proves is that you're so cocksure in your beliefs that you simply refuse to believe any of the "others" who might prove you wrong. I won't bother denying it, but like I said it's paranoia to think every single expert out there who predicted what actually happened was some form of shill.
And yes, it is democracy. If the UK truly wants to leave they would vote again to do so. Except now that's unlikely because we aren't being sold literal lies (and this isn't paranoia, most of the leave campaign's assertions were lies and this is true). The swell has come in the form of the mass hysteria, distrust, economic shit and more that's come only two days after the results.
People have had the rights they were born with removed by this. I literally haven't known anything other than being in Europe, and according to the polls most people my generation and below feel the same. At the same time, the vote revealed massive disparities across the nations, to the point where I now firmly believe Scotland should have independence (I, and my Scottish fiance, were both pro-union before).
I don't know *how* we come back from this. I'm not sure I even want to.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Not sure how people can't understand that this vote means that there is no credible argument against Scotland and Ireland leaving the union. And it is true that England has no credible political leadership but this was true this last general election. The only thing that made the previous election a stable leadership was the lib dems. The rejection of them for "collaborating" and making government functional was sad.
The irony here is absolutely destroying me.
You'd hope anyone regardless of their views on one particular issue would stand up to protect democracy.
Got a link to it?
Interesting. You seemed so supportive of Leave and getting a better deal with the EU as a result.
I have my fair share of issues with the EU myself (like countries using it to sent their politicians into exile or out to pasture...just look up the [slimy] clown show that is Günther Oettinger), but leaving the EU was evidently such a bad idea for practical reasons even if one is anti-EU and I think that having the EU around is better than not having it. Building a new EU wide organisation would be impossible today, so don't tear it down, try and change it.
These are good ideas. The first especially could be implemented today, and might just take some of the vileness out of the debate.
We'd need a Prime Minister for that though.
Pankratous
Member
There's now 11 Shadow cabinet members gone. Does Labour even have the people to replace that?
Thought the same a few times when walking my dog outside (I'm not British but I live in London). But more from the perspective of "are they thinking I'm an immigrant and want me out?".
edit - and to be clear, I don't think all leave voters want all immigrants out.
PJV3
Member
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
You know when you're in the office and one guy makes a huge fuss and storms off.
The next morning, he comes in? That's what Cameron is doing Tuesday.
The next morning, he comes in? That's what Cameron is doing Tuesday.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Azure Dream
Member
The vote was fundamentally flawed, the Leave campaign was based on blatant lies that they couldn't even stick to for a week, and the whole thing was advisory anyway. I'm flabbergasted they haven't reversed course already. There may be some outrage by Leaves, but the alternative is much worse, and it's pretty easy to tell them, "Look, what these people told you about leaving, what they slapped on busses, was a lie. They had no plan for this, it was all a power play. You were lied to, and you need to vote again with a clearer understanding of what's going to happen."
RedSparrows
Member
Can you lot please stop pretending we all want to overturn the referendum results?
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Link please
RandySquizzel
Banned
Hang on a minute. Just because of recent events, it doesn't mean we're a country of racists.
Yes, it's embarrassing what's happened, but UK is and will always be a multicultural society, which in turn, breeds racism in a very small minority.
Everyone else might be writing my country off, but I'm not.
I really want to see it - will there be a link at some point you think?
Hahaha, brilliant.
http://www.daserste.de/live/index.html (German obviously)
Basically she is saying europe should wait until there is a new prime minister and they negotiated a good trade deal.Any juicy excerpts? Come on man, give us them details
According to her there is no need to trigger art. 50 in the next 3 months or more
pacificrex
Banned
That's fine. I don't watch the BBC, except for Sherlock, and I only have basic knowledge of what's happening on your side of the pond. I just have to disagree on principle in terms people trying to change the vote. I've heard that your news channels are flooded with pundits talking about another vote right now. To me, that comes off like a concerted effort to subvert democracy. It's also why I find it utterly despicable that the Republican party here in the United States might actually try to push Trump out for someone the powers that be in the Republican party wants in, completely ignoring who the people voted for. That makes my skin crawl.
SporeCrawler
Member
Any juicy excerpts? Come on man, give us them details
Well firth said that she thinks that the new treaty will take more than 2 years so there is no hurry to invoke Art. 50. Von der Leyen said that if she thinks that negotiating treaties within 2 years is not possible than she should have thought about that before campaigning for brexit
True not everyone does but if they aren't overturned, this country will see the biggest fucking exodus of business, money, brains and good people witnessed in modern history.
And I am not being hyperbolic.
geordiemp
Member
You see, our views are not so different. But how do you change the bad things in EU and keep the good things ?
I am trying my best to see positives that can be done, listening today to Tony Blair (god I could not stand that guy at the time), I now wish he would come back and lead us. We need a wise calm head to shake things up.
Maybe the wiser heads like Merkel and others thinking maybe Eu project needs toning down a little (some noises have been made), and maybe UK can have a general election in a few months with new mandates and we can stay.
But things need to change here a well, big time. Whether its France, Germany, USA with trump or UK, far right is getting more than just a few nutters, and that worries me for society. Its not just a UK problem.
Maybe a few financial things failing over coming months will be a good force for change and people cant just blame it on the Poles coming here to do shit jobs like working at 4 am in starbucks at an airport - nobody British wants to get outta bed lol.
Sometimes I look at Boris and think he wanted to change EU for the good but not leave....so he made a statement by standing.....but never thought he would win...Would explain how he never rejoiced and looked as if he had indeed lost the next day.
In an ideal world you would want to show Eu it needed to change without blowing everything up.....Fucked up world....
I still can't believe that really happened. Watched the John Oliver bit on BREXIT yesterday. Pretty sad.
But the song was awesome.
The good thing I as a German take from it: This will be taught in history/economy books in a couple of years. And we sat there and watched and read an over 200 pages thread on GAF about it.
I don't even know how to feel. Of course I wish the British all the best.
But at the same time, I don't. They have to fail for the EU to succeed.
As a biologist/patent guy what's really sad is the whole university/pharma thing...
But the song was awesome.
The good thing I as a German take from it: This will be taught in history/economy books in a couple of years. And we sat there and watched and read an over 200 pages thread on GAF about it.
I don't even know how to feel. Of course I wish the British all the best.
But at the same time, I don't. They have to fail for the EU to succeed.
As a biologist/patent guy what's really sad is the whole university/pharma thing...
Like so many other countries, the U.K. is a racist society.
This vote just prove that a significant portion of the voting population are willing to tank the economy and dissolve the UK because of fear of Eastern Europeans and brown people.
funkystudent
Member
Damn. Deer in headlights.
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