This is nonsense, the Parliament and Council have completely 'destroyed' certain Commission proposals. E.g. Telco single market.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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At least the guardian had the sense to turn off the comments section.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Okay, this got me. Well done.
The Independent (famously left wing and pro-remain) have tried to be "middle of the road" on Brexit for a little while.
They allowed Farage to write a piece for their "Voices" column talking about why we should leave etc as well
GamerMax73
Member
Yes, a lot of people (no were near all leavers, mind) are that stupid - unfortunately. Get them to explain what 'native English' actually is though. Really their grasp on English history is sorely lacking.
Rejection is not the same as repeal.
Perfectly explained. The problem is that national politicians all across Europe for their own or their party purposes made the EU, and the European Union the cause of all problems of their own country. The buck passing to a distant entity as the EU, is particular effective because people don't want to really think of their own faults and try to change or reform their own country. Of course there are problems also at EU. Its politicians come from european countries with their own idiosyncrasies and interests. The rise of euroscepticism has a perverse root on people in charge that are as quick to defend the EU, the "ever closer union", and in the next breath make it the reason for all their country woes.
Generic Power Ranger
Member
Well recently we had a vote here where we would give up a lot of rights to the european union that we would no longer be, as a country, allowed to decide ourselves. What works in germany may not work in france, or spain.
Our country doesn't have the Euro, and all things considered I'm very happy about that. The UK is by far not the only country that has cherry picked EU legistration. Maybe the end game to some is a singular country, but many people, like me, prefere it as a stabilising union that doesn't remove mandates from countries.
An example is phthalates which were illigal in my country in children toys up until recently. I say until recently, because EU decided that apparently phthalates are not dangerous (despite there being a lot of proof that it can damage hormones), and has decided to overrule our rules in the area regarding it.
And this is what the big issue with EU is, and where a lot of the individual countries hostilities comes from. In other ways EU is great for the consumer, but occasionally, it wants to "even the odds" between the goods from each country, which means interferring with legistration in countries where consumers are better protected, and strip that protection from the products, so other european products from countries with worse consumer protection, can be sold there as well.
Yeah.
Again, I like the EU. Ithink it's great. I worry where we would be without it as it serves as a great stabilizer. But pushing every single country into one form is not the right way to proceed. Each country should continue to be able to function as a country, with some added benifits from being part of a trade union.
frontieruk
Member
Yes they do, they've stepped aside to let the geniuses who got us here steer the ship. Neither side saw this happening, though I do think Merkel's leniency is due to Cameron prepping her about how much sway this referendum really holds, and it's obvious Osborne made contingency plans to keep the ship upright while he was still there.
CadetMahoney
Member
Pretty much, imagine if the UK ends up doing "alright/ok/could have been much worse" with recovery in sight. It would embolden dissenters, other countries start getting ideas. UK definitely will face harsh test by the EU.
We might not need to contemplate nationalising the Steel Industry if the UK did not block tariffs for cheap steel imports. Let's be real here, the government does not care about the Steel Industry because the cheap imports is benefiting other industries more.
How did they get the figures? Wasn't this meant to be a secret ballot?
Alx
Member
Hopefully EU won't only count on the UK example as a stabilization measure, though. We need more to be done, and address all the reasons that fueled all the scepticism and violent opinions in the Leave program.
We need more transparency on European legislation and get people interested in it, so they can realize it is democratic and mostly for their own benefit (and if it isn't enough, we should improve that too). We also need real policies for how we'll handle refugees, security, more equity among members (which includes stripping UK of some of its exceptions if it were to remain after all).
It can be a good opportunity to steer EU in the right direction, hopefully we won't just hear "see what happened to UK ? Now stop complaining..."
YianGaruga
Banned
1) Invoke article 50 (someone, anyone)
2) Start discussions with EU
That's the plan. The point of the 2 year timeline is to figure out everything else during that period. Someone just needs to start the whole thing. You can't know all the details beforehand.
It's really not possible to have more of a "plan" for something as unprecendented as this. Even ignoring the lies, The Leave campaing was only able to lay out some possibilities of what will happen, not any guarantees. So go on with it and see it through.
That's a terrible plan. That's a "let's see what happens" plan and that doesn't belong in government.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Wouldn't have changed the results even if they had 100% turnout and all voted Remain; there aren't that many 18-24 year olds.
Exactly. People saying the EU should bend over for the U.K. seem to completely miss the point. The U.K. needs the EU far more than the EU needs the U.K.
YianGaruga
Banned
No? You have 2 years to negotiate terms and deals. You can't do that before you make your intentions known. UK can't plan their exit alone.
If you think government shouldn't make decisions that have a HUGE uncertainty than leaving the EU shouldn't have been put to a fucking vote.
joke post?
Not taking a jab at UK voters, but those are too complicated. A referendum must have a very simple formulation that ensures a binary definitive response.
GamerMax73
Member
It's a shame but I fully agree with this. We've always been too short-sighted to understand what being in Europe really means. Thursdays vote is just further evidence of that.
Jesus of Nazareth? No thanks, the people have democratically spoken and the foreigners should go back to where they came from. He'd probably just want a free handout anyway.
/s
It would certainly explain his face.
BossDarkseid
Member
True. Although it's the limited scope of the questioning that, imo, makes them a bad idea for something of this magnitude and complexity.
ferrasvansen
Member
Next one will be
Do you
Wish to Accept Norway type EEA deal
1. Yes
2. No
in the event of no status quo remains.
This. The EU right now is stronger than its been for ages. It doesn't even need to punish the UK in negotiations, if the UK decides it's not going to pull the trigger nobody would dare try and go it alone again.
Or he could be a terrorist in disguise.
Eh, it's never bad thing per se to have different opinions and discussions. The UK miscalculated their power but that doesn't mean its input wasn't valuable.
YianGaruga
Banned
What do I vote to get rid of imgarents though?
PJV3
Member
No.
In 2 years.
Parliament and the government has carried out the wishes of the people and here is the deal going forward to leave the EU.
Stay
Go
I will accept parliament acting to prevent the country tanking before then.
I thought the UK didn't want anymore middle-eastern men to come over there?
/s
Edit. Beaten by a mile.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Was a guesstimate. Wasn't far off, though - there are 6,000,000 18-24s in the UK. 2,000,000 voted. Supposing turnout was 80% and they voted 75% in, you'd have an extra 2,800,000 voters, with a net gain of 1,400,000 for Leave, so you'd have *just* squeaked over the line. However, there's strong reason to suppose that the 18-24s who didn't vote were more likely to be in favour of Leave than those who did, do that means turnout has to go higher again.
Also applies to many Leave voters...
...and Michael Caine who is a Brexit supporter :\
MisterFalcon
Member
The referendum needed 1,3 million more Remain votes to change the outcome. In the UK there are 4,297,000 people between 20 and 24. Just half of the non-voters voting Remain would have been enough.
Bots are better than you
Banned
Really? Oh well, at least he fits with his age demographic then. ^^
RedSparrows
Member
The appeal to history is very interesting. A lot of the time it's invoked as a way of showing how powerful and influential Britain can be [ignoring that WW2 ultimately destroyed Britain's supremacy, but that was a price worth paying, imo, for defeating such evil], and at the very same time ignored as a thing that changes. 'We will be fine outside the EU, we're really strong! [ignoring that we just changed our entire economic and political context, taking ourselves out of certain agreements and a position of strength that enabled this power you so gleefully celebrate, and throwing us out into a colder world outside power structures that have developed over the past 80 years since we won the war but lost the globe]'.
As for the job thing, it's a classic. Immigrants take all jobs, but also all the benefits, except for the workshy who also take all the benefits. The only bit that works, in terms of the warped logic, is immigrants denying anyone else jobs.
ferrasvansen
Member
Now this is worrying...
Credit card spending 'drops since Brexit'
Posted at
09:24
There's been a "dramatic drop" in credit card spending in the UK in the days following the Brexit vote, says a Mastercard executive, quoted in the The National Business Review
"We had started to see travel picking up in the UK, had seen that kind of discretionary spending on jewellery and retail. To [see] that now fall off is quite concerning," says Sarah Quinlan, of Mastercard Advisors, which provides analysis of data from the credit card company.
Spending had begun to pick up when it looked like the Remain camp might win, she adds.
If spending falls badly we are fucked, economy will tank big style.
Credit card spending 'drops since Brexit'
Posted at
09:24
There's been a "dramatic drop" in credit card spending in the UK in the days following the Brexit vote, says a Mastercard executive, quoted in the The National Business Review
"We had started to see travel picking up in the UK, had seen that kind of discretionary spending on jewellery and retail. To [see] that now fall off is quite concerning," says Sarah Quinlan, of Mastercard Advisors, which provides analysis of data from the credit card company.
Spending had begun to pick up when it looked like the Remain camp might win, she adds.
If spending falls badly we are fucked, economy will tank big style.
Imp the Dimp
Member
I still hope the UK won't go through with it. Such madness.
GamerMax73
Member
That's polite - A robot beneath that human suit was the last thing I'd have guessed at
Nah, it'll be fine. Johnson said so.
Boris saying everything is fine, markets are stable, pensions are safe et cetera.
It seems to me things aren't that way at all, the economy & markets are in limbo, they're waiting for the politicians to make next move. It can't go on like this, there should have been a plan, the electorate have been deceived.
It seems to me things aren't that way at all, the economy & markets are in limbo, they're waiting for the politicians to make next move. It can't go on like this, there should have been a plan, the electorate have been deceived.
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