alabtrosMyster
Member
It's mostly levels with a hub world, I would not put it directly aside the ubisoft like games.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Turns out people are wrong about the ‘squeeze through cracks’ loading screens
- Thread starter remember_spinal
- Start date
- Game Dev Hardware
Yoboman
Member
Yes cause there's nothing in between linear and Ubisoft open worlds
TrueLegend
Member
I am talking about how GOW is a seperate case because even the more linear games like dead space can benefit so much from not having crawling space for loading screen and dead space doesn't even need to give excuse for crawling space.
NinjaBoiX
Member
This is one of this issues that really shows the immaturity of some gamers.
Developers: “We fundamentally NEED to use this technique occasionally, as the flow of the level would just fall apart without it. The game would simply break.”
Whiny Gamer: “Yeah, but it’s annoying. I don’t like it, just stop putting them in.”
Developers: “Yeah we get that, but like I told you…”
Whiny Gamer: “Nope, I don’t like it.”
Developers: “We fundamentally NEED to use this technique occasionally, as the flow of the level would just fall apart without it. The game would simply break.”
Whiny Gamer: “Yeah, but it’s annoying. I don’t like it, just stop putting them in.”
Developers: “Yeah we get that, but like I told you…”
Whiny Gamer: “Nope, I don’t like it.”
01011001
Banned
This is one of this issues that really shows the immaturity of some gamers.
Developers: “We fundamentally NEED to use this technique occasionally, as the flow of the level would just fall apart without it. The game would simply break.”
Whiny Gamer: “Yeah, but it’s annoying. I don’t like it, just stop putting them in.”
Developers: “Yeah we get that, but like I told you…”
Whiny Gamer: “Nope, I don’t like it.”
*bad developers
how come there are games of similar genres that come by without this shit? because they have better level and gamedesigners, that's why.
vaibhavpisal
Member
But you do know what feels good to play, don't you?
NinjaBoiX
Member
Because the design of those particular games didn’t call for it? Not all games necessarily need them, but that doesn’t make them “better games” imo.
It’s clearly a technique used for exactly the reasons explained, they aren’t putting them in to fuck with you!
Yoboman
Member
Yeah the 2018 GOTY and its sequel
Topher
Identifies as young
Sure, but I don't get hung up on little shit like this. Next time I squeeze through a crack in a video game I'm going to giggle myself silly at all the folks losing their shit over having to push the thumbstick forward for a matter of seconds.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sure, but I don't get hung up on little shit like this. Next time I squeeze through a crack in a video game I'm going to giggle myself silly at all the folks losing their shit over having to push the thumbstick forward for a matter of seconds.
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
remember_spinal
Banned
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
solidus12
Member
PS4 Pro holding Xbox One X back, hence the 30fps on Destiny 2.
Last edited:
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
Its all excuses. If they didn't want players to go back - there are numerous ways they can do such a thing rather than rely on the same tired tactic. Same with preventing players from leaving an area before a fire fight is finished or combat encounter is ended.
Just bad design.
AGRacing
Member
It is 100% a loading screen. They can lie and say they're using it for something else... but at the end of the day they're definitely taking the time to dump an area out of memory and put a new area into it. It was clever the first time it was done. 30 games that have it later ... it's firmly in eye roll territory.
Yoboman
Member
Explain how that's bad design
Johnny Concrete
Member
I hate that there’s a term for these tropes. “Ok, we’ll use another squeeze-through here and after the enemies died the player will be boosting out of the arena”
Maybe stop making your game linear as fuck and start designing something new and exciting. It’s not a passive medium you’re working with here.
Maybe stop making your game linear as fuck and start designing something new and exciting. It’s not a passive medium you’re working with here.
Swift_Star
Banned
I said that multiple times. Sometimes walking and crawling isn’t for loading, it’s for pacing. And the only people that complain about this are forum dwellers and honestly, most of us would suck at this job.
Swift_Star
Banned
Who are you to dictate what devs should or shouldn’t do? It doesn’t break immersion at all
Klosshufvud
Member
Not him but I honestly prefer zones separated by loading screens. I hate when devs assume I'm too stupid to notice their overused tricks to maintain cinematic immersion. No surprise the biggest culprits are those making the immersive on-rails games. I'm not sure if this is also due to loading but every climbing scene that is me literally just holding forward while writers drop exposition annoys me too. We didn't have this problem before 7th gen.
Last edited:
FatallyYours
Member
We didn't have tricks to hide loading before 7th gen consoles?
Are you sure about that?
MasterCornholio
Member
Klosshufvud
Member
Tricks were there but more traditional loading screens were used. But then came an obsession to get rid of loadings and replace them with immersion-keeping tight spots.
kyliethicc
Member
The irony is that many of the same people moaning about God of War being a PS4 game will tell you Elden Ring is their favorite game of the year.
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Member
I don’t care. I hate it. That + forced walking segments + unskippable cutscenes need to go away.
HumanoidSharks
Member
I remember when the iconic Resident Evil door opening loading screens were groundbreaking.
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
If used sparingly, it isn’t. It is just another tool in the proverbial toolbox. The issue is that it has become the go-to tool. Whether it is some form of “Squeezing” or a “boost” - these are the two most common methods to “funnel” players despite there being literally hundreds of choices they can choose to help make it feel less frustrating.
Let’s create a scenario where we use these tools to funnel players into finishing a particular combat encounter. We can’t have them back track and they can’t move forward without dispatching every enemy, as suggested by the Twitter prompt. First, let’s look at choices to prevent backtracking:
1.) Enter an area and the entrance crashes down, blocking your retreat.
2.) You enter an area and lock the door behind you to prevent enemies from chasing you.
3.) You drop down into an area, with no way to climb back.
4.) You sneak into a building from a window at a higher vantage point.
5.) Security Protocol engages and blocks your exit.
Those are five ideas I had within as many seconds.
No need to use the same tired “squeeze” gimmick. Now what about forcing them to finish a combat encounter and stopping them from moving past it?
1.) Have a locked door that requires a key or listen to NPCs spout dialogue hints on a passcode for the door. This will force them to explore the environment and location while engaging in stealth mechanics to finish the area.
2.) Have a cutscene play that loads players into a different location.
3.) Have the door locked until the combat encounter ends and a new enemy enters.
4.) Fight a wave of enemies to bring out the boss who has the McGuffin you need for whatever story reason (a lever, a key, a magical artifact, etc).
5.) Give a justification as to why you need to kill all the enemies before you move on.
Again, five ideas in five seconds that don’t require taking control out of the players hands to watch a Slow and frustrating “boost” animation.
If you continue to use a singular design choice to justify reasons to not be able to backtrack or to force players to finish a combat encounter, you will frustrate your audience. That is simply bad design. Diversify your choices and options to keep players on their toes. Don’t force them to slow down, but create interesting environments and level designs to keep them moving at a good pace. You don’t need them to slow down to a crawl to load up another area either - you can just create a series of rooms that tell a small story in of themselves (Environmental Storytelling) that allows you to load up the next area while you are moving through them.
It really isn’t complicated nor that challenging to design. But these particular choices have become a crutch for lazy/bad design.
Last edited:
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Amen, close the thread. I listed this as one of the overused game design mechanics in this thread.
I'm so sick and tired of overly scripted, cinematic experiences. I want games to be interactive experiences.
GeeseGoose
Member
I’m not sure why this is an issue.
If it’s for loading, great, the game is not disrupted, if not, great, they can remove some asset from memory which allows for more allocation in the next sequence.
I do agree though that gameplay wise, it’s low stakes and tedious, and holding the stick is as close to passive gaming as you can get while holding a controller, so maybe have an “A” to valve option
If it’s for loading, great, the game is not disrupted, if not, great, they can remove some asset from memory which allows for more allocation in the next sequence.
I do agree though that gameplay wise, it’s low stakes and tedious, and holding the stick is as close to passive gaming as you can get while holding a controller, so maybe have an “A” to valve option
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
Sad thing is, you can create super cinematic moments without relying on scripted moments like these that remove player urgency. Thief did it. Half Life did it. Fucking hell, DOOM Eternal does it constantly in almost every combat encounter/arena. Its a fine enough choice as long as it is used sparingly. But many AAA devs tend to overuse them. NaughtyDog may as well be the poster boy for these bad design choices.
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
My point exactly! There needs to be diversity in how you structure levels like that. You can’t just use the same tired gimmick endlessly and expect people to be OK with it.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Howling with laughter here.
Always makes me laugh when randomers on the internet think they know better than the developers with shelves full of GOTY, technical achievement awards, game design awards and level design awards.
Banjo64
cumsessed
Thebonehead
Gold Member
They should make it like this.
I've never suffered from anxiety in any shape or form, but this video made me feel uncomfortable.
I've never suffered from anxiety in any shape or form, but this video made me feel uncomfortable.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I'm replying Uncharted 4 on PC and it must be the most scripted and restrictive "game" ever made. Or close to it. Just in the opening "boat" section:
- You can steer your boat away from the island, it doesn't matter, once it's hit with big explosion you will teleport close to it;
- You can't move your camera left or right when game decides to spawn out of thin air the big boat that rams you;
- When you close to the island you can't hit any rocks, boat will steer by itself away from them;
- Enemy boats explode in scripted fashion, 0 physics involved. It doesn't matter how fast are you going or where the collision is;
- When Drake ends up in the water and is about to be run over by a boat, there's a button prompt to dive in the water. You don't have to press it, game does it for you;
- Once you emerge from the water, your boat is teleported next to the island and all enemy boats are despawned, there are only light sources on the horizon. You can just float on the water and chill, nobody is going to attack you;
- If you decide to swim away from your boat, it explodes and it's game over (it looks ridiculous).
Kamina
Golden Boy
The Tomb Raider Cracks from last gen were very long and tedious, so i understand that it might be frustrating, but with the current gen loading times the cracks are very short mostly and i prefer them over any immersion breaking loading screens.
And at those complaining about seeing an ass from behind: in no game i remember the cam purposely zoomed in to the ass when crawling though a crack, people do have asses that are visible when the cam is behind them, so lets not make that an argument.
And at those complaining about seeing an ass from behind: in no game i remember the cam purposely zoomed in to the ass when crawling though a crack, people do have asses that are visible when the cam is behind them, so lets not make that an argument.
Last edited:
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
I'm assuming "people," in the title refers to devs, and "wrong," refers to it's inclusion.
CamHostage
Member
The actual "squeeze through a cave" trick is, I agree, overused and annoying and essentially devoid of gameplay or narrative/mood purpose, and developers should do anything but this tired gag if they can help it. Put a ladder down into a cavern and have a quick underground fight if you have to hide the stitch between two big level sections.
But we've had these tricks of stalled progression or windy corridors or unlocking doors or elevators or squeezing through caves since "seamless" gameplay came into fashion with titles such as Legacy of Kain. And faster loading only solves part of the reason why those exist.
(Even 2D games had some stitching techniques; there was no great loadtime to hide in Super Metroid but you still had level elevators.)
Last edited:
ReBurn
Gold Member
I liked the mass effect elevator conversations. At the time I felt they were better than the "fast" travel loading screens.
I feel the same way. So many "cinematic" games feel like movies with simple QTE tossed in to justify the lower caliber of writing. I hate how squeezes and arbitrary "climbing" turn games into a series of rooms instead of cohesive experiences.
supernova8
Banned
Megan Fox on ultra performance FSR settings?
Phil_the_goat
Banned
I'm playing plague tale 2 and this squeezing thing is everywhere. Really annoying especially when crack gets tighter and character stops to adjust its position.