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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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DJ12

DJ12

Member
o'dium said:
All I’m going to add is it’s funny how somebody mentions about how people are usually given dev machines and a target spec that Sony/Ms are aiming for, and then all of a sudden, he knows all about target specs, when there was no mention before...

Y’all bein’ played!
Click to expand...
Who said what now.

13tf is not new by any means:



12tf for xbox also known since the Game award show, longer for certain xbots.
 
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
joe_zazen said:
a few random thoughts
  • we know nothing of whats inside the ps dev kit. And devs don't open them to poke around. So not having any leaks or rumours isn't strange. Also, If the intern hadnt fucked up, we wouldnt even have the github stuff and we’d really be in the dark.

  • as for why a 36 cu chip, imo it is because Sony use hardware design to facilitate back compat, unlike Microsoft who use just use software emulation. This imposes constraints on the hardware designers, as with ps4pro needing ‘mirrored butterfly’ 36 cu chip. Pro could have been designed better if sony had the software chops, and the same will be said of the ps5. But they dont have those chops, so they need to design the hardware this way, which from the outside looks nonsensical.

  • cooling in a dev kit, really dont know whats going on there without seeing inside. But sony’s design prowess is overstated. Sony isnt much of a hardware company anymore beyond image sensors. My guess is they are using high rpm small-ish fans.
  • I never thought about a non-symmetrical setup. I suppose a 20cu second chiplet would make financial sense if the tech is there.
  • finally, github + reliable rumours make a 36cu ps5 apu unlikely unless xsx is also 8-9 TFs.
Click to expand...

I can respect this. Personally don't take everything insiders have claimed as being probable, but I do at least entertain the possibility. The 40/20 dual chip setup should be technically possible, but I don't see where it logically makes more sense than a single 60CU chip. Maybe if PS5 were a hybrid system, sure, I can see a 40/20 dual GPU setup making sense over a single 60CU GPU (maybe more space for other components?).

Also was thinking, while I'm sure AMD have probably made inroads with their dual GPU approach, most likely much better than what CrossFire was years ago, I still don't see it being to a point where that setup will give you an actual 2x performance increase.

There is probably still some overhead to account for; at the end of the day, they're still two separate physical chiplets, so even if syncing has dramatically improved, the laws of physics are still going to be at play. They can have their effect minimized, but not eliminated.
 
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Koopatrol

Koopatrol

Member
Alright, so I made a post earlier about debunking Alcoholikaust. However, given the way Google picks up dates and associates them with web pages and images, the proof was not very accurate. I mean, if the image began circulating November 8th like my original post insinuated, we surely would have gotten the image earlier.

HOWEVER, I believe I have found the original post of the PS5 devkit. You can feel free to try to prove me wrong, but I strongly believe that original "leaked" image comes from reddit.

First, after doing some research, I found this post of this guy saying he believed the original post was on reddit after doing an image search the day the image came out:
2M6HWnI.png

Source here.

So from this, I went to the post he linked. He linked THIS reddit post.

So checking the date of the post, it says it was submitted on November 30th, 2019. The same day of Alcoholikaust's tweet. Alright, so what?

Well, checking the actual time and date by inspecting element, you can see the actual time down to the minute:
s1JsvyO.png


Alright, so it says the reddit post of the devkit was posted on November 30th at the time of 15:08:45. However, this is reddit time; after doing some testing with some other posts and checking the time on reddit, reddit time is 8 hours ahead of pacific time (west coast California).

So basically, subtract 8 hours from 15:08:45 and what do you get?

That the reddit post was posted at 7:08:45 AM PT, approximately 8 minutes before Alcoholikaust's tweet at 7:17 AM PT.
FXXENMz.png


TL;DR: The original devkit leak comes from reddit, NOT the drunk cat. I don't think we need to keep giving this guy attention.
 
Agnostic2020

Agnostic2020

Member
StreetsofBeige said:
I don't know anything about chip design but with the 36 cu being a prediction due to BC, why does it have to be 36?

Why can't PS5 have 40 or 50? There's still 36 available. Just have the system activate 36 when it's a BC game???

Maybe it's more complicated than that?
Click to expand...
It doesn’t have to be 36 for BC . Ps4 pro is 36 and ps4 is 18 and ps4 pro is fully BC with ps4 . U just disable as many cu u want when an old gen disk is detected to mimic the old hardware
 
DJ12

DJ12

Member
FranXico said:
I vaguely remember that one. Wasn't it debunked later on?
Click to expand...
Only by hopes and dreams.

To be honest, I don't know, but look at the language used such as "boost mode" which we know exists.

Even if it was debunked, seems like it's relevant now.
 
xool

xool

Member
joe_zazen said:
But, taking into account all the credible statements from connected folks, that seems wrong, Assuming xsx is 11TF+ (and why wouldn't it be at 405mm^2,) no one has squared that circle. Hence my belief that ps5 and upcoming amd cards are multi chip, designed to appear as a simgle gpu to OS.

In ps5 case, we have an apu + slavegpu. when running in back compat, second gpu gets shut down and the apu gpu mimics ps4/ps4pro hardware. In ps5 mode, all cylinders fire. yes, this will be expensive, but it squares github with insiders, and allows sony to have a competitive console.

it also means amd stock might take a nice jump this as i don't think nvidia has been developing this kind of tech. 2 smaller dies are cheaper than one big one, so maybe amd will have the power crown soon.

tldr so yeah, ps5 is dual and next gen of amd power cards will be as well.
Click to expand...

As I understand it different parts of the APU have different codenames, and there's a heirarchy of codenames - so there's a codename for the GPU, and a codename for the APU - both of which code refer to the same "graphics engine" .. but that isn't what you are saying.

Tommy Fisher has pretty much said he thinks/knows that (only?) Sony is using INFO_MS which means memory and APU integrated into the same package (Integrated Fan Out - Memory on Substrate i think) which probably should mean HBM in this case, which he's repeatedly hinted at..

As for dual GPU - traditional methods have had low performance compared to a single chip twice the size .. but AMD has been at the front of chiplets, and getting this to work for GPU would be huge .. who knows if PS5 has a first for this ? I assume the INFO_MS would allow huge buses between GPUlets, solving some of the efficiency problems dual GPU.

That would be 72 CUs, presumable at modest clocks because 750W psu isn't cheap , and would get them to 12+TF without breaking sweat. 1.4GHz gets them to 12.9 - nice and low, and efficient -they could make up some of the (20$?) cost of INFO with smaller PSU, easier cooling, higher yields for smaller chips etc ..

I'd be impressed and pleased if true, just because it's a big step forward when console tech is looking like it's stagnating (more PC-clone sir?) .. not betting on it at all.
 
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Gavin Stevens

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
DJ12 said:
Only by hopes and dreams.

To be honest, I don't know, but look at the language used such as "boost mode" which we know exists.

Even if it was debunked, seems like it's relevant now.
Click to expand...

Boost mode is a term used on PS4 already for titles that are not pro enhanced, but can work on a pro.
 
FranXico

FranXico

Member
DJ12 said:
Only by hopes and dreams.

To be honest, I don't know, but look at the language used such as "boost mode" which we know exists.

Even if it was debunked, seems like it's relevant now.
Click to expand...
Boost mode is a PS4 Pro feature (I think it's just upclocking with respect to base PS4), so there's nothing anachronistic in the language. I don't think so, at least.
 
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xool

xool

Member
AGRacing said:
For the “dual gpu” camp....

What I’m always surprised about is why AMD and Sony wouldn’t take advantage of the “chiplet” design AMD is currently using for their CPUs.

They manufacture a boatload of 7nm 8 core “chiplet” processors and just combine them to make 16 core or 32 core CPUs ,etc. And they’re already making them right now.

Why design an APU with that same 8 Core CPU on the chip taking up space and limiting the GPU size ? Can’t they take an off the shelf Zen 2 CPU chiplet and combine it with a bigger GPU for a reasonable cost?

I’m no expert so I’m genuinely asking why this wouldn’t be done.... but it does seem a waste to me to waste APU space on the zen2 CPU when AMD is pumping out these zen2 CPU chiplets in massive quantities for a big cost benefit.
Click to expand...

Our <is he/isn't he> leaker Tommy Fisher has put his money on just this ..
 
DJ12

DJ12

Member
o'dium said:
Boost mode is a term used on PS4 already for titles that are not pro enhanced, but can work on a pro.
Click to expand...
Fair enough didn't know that as don't own one or care about it either to know what it does, that's my bad.

It still proves the 13tf target has been out there for quite some time.

I said a few days ago I wouldn't be surprised it the original leak was the most accurate of the lot. I think that's playing out now. We shall see.
 
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SleepDoctor

SleepDoctor

Banned
FranXico said:
I vaguely remember that one. Wasn't it debunked later on?
Click to expand...


Its never actually "debunked" to those whose narrative it fits.

OT: This thread is just a bunch of fud slung around. Nobody knows a goddamn thing yet and act like 5 year old over which leak is real vs fake lol.

I entertained the "leak" bs the first week or so and thats it. Pointless arguing over shit we have no idea of yet.

Lets be honest tho, the ps5/xsx can be just 7tf and console warriors would still buy it. While smarter consumers will just build a pc.
 
Aceofspades

Aceofspades

Banned
SleepDoctor said:
Lets be honest tho, the ps5/xsx can be just 7tf and console warriors would still buy it. While smarter consumers will just build a pc.
Click to expand...

Consumers so smart they pair a $1000 GPU to $500 CPU to fancy $1000 piss cooling just to shave milliseconds of Cinebench benchmark and run current gen games at 1000fps while having 10% GPU utilization 🤣

What a waste of power 🤣
 
Last edited:
martino

martino

Member
Aceofspades said:
Consumers so smart they pair a $1000 GPU to $500 CPU to fancy $1000 piss cooling just to shave milliseconds of Cinebench benchmark and run current gen games at 1000fps while having 10% GPU utilization 🤣

What a waste of power 🤣
Click to expand...
probably true on earth-66 but only facilies here on eath-1
 
xool

xool

Member
Not sure why am trying to convince for a rumor I don't believe myself but here goes :

thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
...but if that's the case, why would the PS5 devkit need the cooling it seemingly has? From the looks of it that type of cooling is overkill for a system with GPUs running that low in clocks. And we've already seen Oberon testing at 2GHz...why do that for a system intended for a dual GPU setup? Unless, what, they have one Oberon chip at 2GHz or some super-high number like that, and the other at sub 1000MHz (well below any modern GPU card's clocks)!? So in reality wouldn't PS5's TF number be closer to, say, 15.6TF-16TF (assuming they could at least match XSX's possible GPU clock)? But there's absolutely no one credible throwing that figure around.
Click to expand...
Well the dev kit appears to have 2 sets of vents - in a design that's hard to make sense of unless it has 2 heatsinks ..

thelastword said:
So you mean to tell me, a 12TF XBOX, no heat problems, a 13TF PS, this is going to be a volcano
Click to expand...
IF it's dual 36CU GPU it gets to nearly 14TF at just 1.4GHZ - at those clocks the GPU power is ~80W only, 160W for both (that doesn't include everything else) .. it's suprisingly low though ..

thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
The other idea would be that in looking for a somewhat sane price point on a dual GPU system, they'd clock them both insanely low to keep the cooling costs down. But really, even a modestly pricey cooling setup is still cheaper than a second GPU (and the costs in implementing it in the design). So even with that in mind a dual "small" GPU setup & reduced cooling, is going to be a higher BOM than a monolithic larger GPU with sufficient cooling. And for what, exactly? A possible single TF performance edge, if that? Doesn't seem economically sensible imo.
Click to expand...
If it's integrated onto a single chip ala chiplets then you only need one heatsink .. (also see above)

Brudda26 said:
Has anyone got a link to that Taiwanese site were they said the xsx die was 350mm² despite that being wrong etc.
Click to expand...

Anubis現在已經沒有在做，可能是開發機代號
Arden沒意外應該會是要上市的版本

另外
Arden進度比較快，OBR還在初期驗證
而且Arden比OBR大了不只一號(350 vs 300 mm2)

Re: [情報] Zen3/Milan官方架構圖出來了

IPC再高也不能讓我準時下班 目前天宮本家的產品都挺安靜的 首先Renoir應該趕不上今年上 應該說所有要靠輪班星7nm量產的計畫都被往後延最少三個月 然後天宮就發了mail來
www.ptt.cc
Click to expand...

Re: [情報] Zen3/Milan官方架構圖出來了

IPC再高也不能讓我準時下班 目前天宮本家的產品都挺安靜的 首先Renoir應該趕不上今年上 應該說所有要靠輪班星7nm量產的計畫都被往後延最少三個月 然後天宮就發了mail來
www.ptt.cc

Better bookmark that, not sure if I can find it again
 
thelastword

thelastword

Banned
~Fake said:
On the other forum people started to push 'PS5 has no RT' again LMAO.
Click to expand...
It's a cycle, soon we will be back at 8TF, maybe 6TF XboneX style before too long.....Just give them time, it's a long way till PS5's reveal....

Agnostic2020 said:
If he would say 11 or 12 is important you would not have quoted him 😂
He knows nothing . My grocery shop owner around the corner knows more than him about ps5 .
Click to expand...
If he said 16 or 18TF, would he post it......These are greater numbers than 8, that's for sure....

OTOH: what's up with the people so concerned about rumors being debunked...….They are all rumors even if people have sources or not......Sources can be more FOS than the insiders themselves.....Sometimes it all depends on what flames the sources want to fan or which flames they'd vehemently want to put some water on...…Extinguish those, fan those...…..The only person that will put anything to rest is Master Cerny.....He will descend from mount Olympus and carry with him lots of fury to rain on the infidels.....It shall be as it were "a baptism by fire".....
 
01011001

01011001

Banned
I really wonder if the impossible happens and it turns out to be true that the PS5 is 9TF with no dedicated RT hardware and the SX is 12-13TF with dedicated RT hardware.

the internet would explode and I would love to see it.

I always love to see fanboy meltdowns... it would be kinda boring if they're super close in every way 😜
that's just sadistic old me hoping for some harmless fanboy chaos.

martino said:
also dev kit numbers are not retail ones.
Click to expand...

correct, dev kits are usually more powerful than retail, at least the final dev kits.
they often have all cores enabled and more ram.
 
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SleepDoctor

SleepDoctor

Banned
This user has been temporarily removed from thread. Dial it back on the platform warring and general antagonism.
Aceofspades said:
Consumers so smart they pair a $1000 GPU to $500 CPU to fancy $1000 piss cooling just to shave milliseconds of Cinebench benchmark and run current gen games at 1000fps while having 10% GPU utilization 🤣

What a waste of power 🤣
Click to expand...


Its ok if you're unable to afford a pc bud. I understand you console warriors will go to any extreme to defend your piece of plastic lol. Start saving your $10 a month or whatever it is you can afford to save to hopefully afford something at launch 😭😭😭😭
 
Blindarchangel82

Blindarchangel82

Member
I thought I read somewhere that only Sony's 1st party have final spec dev-kits and 3rd party devs have the older ones...this, of course, could have been from one of those fake leaks so I'm not 100% certain. Either way, this could be how they're keeping leaks from happening. 🤷‍♂️
 
Hobbygaming

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Koopatrol said:
Alright, so I made a post earlier about debunking Alcoholikaust. However, given the way Google picks up dates and associates them with web pages and images, the proof was not very accurate. I mean, if the image began circulating November 8th like my original post insinuated, we surely would have gotten the image earlier.

HOWEVER, I believe I have found the original post of the PS5 devkit. You can feel free to try to prove me wrong, but I strongly believe that original "leaked" image comes from reddit.

First, after doing some research, I found this post of this guy saying he believed the original post was on reddit after doing an image search the day the image came out:
2M6HWnI.png

Source here.

So from this, I went to the post he linked. He linked THIS reddit post.

So checking the date of the post, it says it was submitted on November 30th, 2019. The same day of Alcoholikaust's tweet. Alright, so what?

Well, checking the actual time and date by inspecting element, you can see the actual time down to the minute:
s1JsvyO.png


Alright, so it says the reddit post of the devkit was posted on November 30th at the time of 15:08:45. However, this is reddit time; after doing some testing with some other posts and checking the time on reddit, reddit time is 8 hours ahead of pacific time (west coast California).

So basically, subtract 8 hours from 15:08:45 and what do you get?

That the reddit post was posted at 7:08:45 AM PT, approximately 8 minutes before Alcoholikaust's tweet at 7:17 AM PT.
FXXENMz.png


TL;DR: The original devkit leak comes from reddit, NOT the drunk cat. I don't think we need to keep giving this guy attention.
Click to expand...
This was some detective investigation type of work. Thank you!
 
Ellery

Ellery

Member
what I wonder how it works with the legal process (and NDAs) when you have PS5 devkits and give them to developers and those Devkits include hardware (from AMD) that has not yet ben released, not even officially shown or announced yet.
This is mostly about the Hardware RayTracing implementation from AMD, but also about the small possibility that there is actually a bigger Navi chip in there.
How does this work for Sony and AMD if Sony passes devkits along with unreleased hardware from AMD to first/third party studios?

I mean obviously the actual AMD hardware that is inside next gen console is unique in a way that it (probably) won't exist as a graphics card GPU or APU outside of those specific chips that were ordered by MS and Sony, but is AMD involved in the NDAs with the publisher/developer studios aswell, because so far we have seen nothing from Navi besides 5700 (and lower) and absolutely nothing from Hardware AMD RayTracing solution.
 
Mobilemofo

Mobilemofo

Member
SleepDoctor said:
Its never actually "debunked" to those whose narrative it fits.

OT: This thread is just a bunch of fud slung around. Nobody knows a goddamn thing yet and act like 5 year old over which leak is real vs fake lol.

I entertained the "leak" bs the first week or so and thats it. Pointless arguing over shit we have no idea of yet.

Lets be honest tho, the ps5/xsx can be just 7tf and console warriors would still buy it. While smarter consumers will just build a pc.
Click to expand...
Tbf, not everyone wants to build a pc.. Or even have the time for that shit.
 
B

Brudda26

Member
Mobilemofo said:
Tbf, not everyone wants to build a pc.. Or even have the time for that shit.
Click to expand...
As someone who built one and had nothing but problems with it I agree I dont have time for that shit. Mine completely fried itself for no reason £1500 down the shitter. Yeah it would be nice to replace it but I cant afford that shit no more adult life smh. PC isnt worth the headache.
 
Samanosuke Akechi

Samanosuke Akechi

Member
SCFC_ said:
Do you know what, because Sony can’t be bothered to keep you lot updated on the PS5 i thought i would help you out but as you think I’m lying when I’m clearly not. I ain’t gonna post anymore. I chose to post here instead of resetera because i was told of the toxic behaviour on that site. I’ve got nothing to gain out of lying to you lot. Just find it weird when people make up shit. If you don’t believe me it’s fine. I’ll just post elsewhere
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
demigod

demigod

Member
01011001 said:
I really wonder if the impossible happens and it turns out to be true that the PS5 is 9TF with no dedicated RT hardware and the SX is 12-13TF with dedicated RT hardware.

the internet would explode and I would love to see it.

I always love to see fanboy meltdowns... it would be kinda boring if they're super close in every way 😜
that's just sadistic old me hoping for some harmless fanboy chaos.



correct, dev kits are usually more powerful than retail, at least the final dev kits.
they often have all cores enabled and more ram.
Click to expand...

And.....bookmarked. I can’t wait to see all the 9tf vs 12tf people eating crows.
 
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